dex, these questions are forcing some introspection on my part, something I usually avoid at all costs ~ but I will return shortly if I come up with anything, heh heh
quote dexplorer: "Blondie How about YOU??? Imagine YOURSELF having a love relationship with an active male pornstar, of your choosing."
Try as I might, and I DO have an active imagination, I just cannot see that happening, lol. Even of my choosing, there's just no way a porn stud would interest me. Most of them, I don't even care to see on screen having sex. But, I have always been more attracted to what a man has between his ears than between his legs. I'm not saying I'm not attracted to good looking men, I am. But, to keep me interested, it helps to have a large..cerebellum (and I probably misspelled that, which isn't TOO embarrassing ;) But for the sake of argument, I'll try real hard to pretend ;)
"Could YOU handle it? Can you imagine wanting to handle it under some circumstances? What circumstances? Would you regard his on the set work as just work, no sweat as long as he didn't stray off the set"
I doubt sincerely if I could handle that, and I'm really not the overly jealous type. I'm pretty independant, and my partner would have to be as well. It's just that, I don't know, when I'm in love with a man, I think the thought of him having sex with someone else would upset me, and I don't see any workaround for this. And "being included" or there to actually see it? Please, spare me, this is the LAST thing I would want to do. But then, I'm more of a one-on-one when it comes to sex, I'm not into the 3-ways 4-ways & more ways. Not that I haven't tried it - I did, and it doesn't work for me. And if he's going to screw around, fine, just don't let me know about it, and for god's sakes, don't 'confess' any indescretion, cause I DON'T wanna hear it! Heh heh Now, I'm sure some people think THAT'S fucked up, but I'm a firm believer that honesty is not ALWAYS the best policy, especially in matters of love & sex & crap like that.
But let's face it - I don't believe monogamy is inherent in humans, it goes against nature, and when you couple that with a friggin marriage license, christ, why don't people just check into a comfortable jail somewhere, you know? To hold the threat of loss of relationship, home, children, whatever over someone, lest that person be at all tempted to stray just once, is unrealistic and many times has less to do with actual love of someone else, and more to do with the person's own insecurities, I think. So, what I'm saying is, if I truly loved someone, I certainly wouldn't leave them over an affair or a one night stand, why would I? That's ridiculous. But, should they be actively fornicating other women on a regular basis, be it their vocation or as a hobby, I don't think so.
OK, what was your second question? hee hee "I'll be back"
OK, you all, here's what blondie and I are talking about.
What she's done is voluntarily switched forums. To follow what we're talking about AND CONTRIBUTE yourself, you gotta read this thread which started somewhere else.
It started in connection with discussing what the indie screenwriter, actor and now director Jon Favreau ("Swingers, "Made", "Love and Sex") is now up to. He's a fav or mine and it turns out an email pen pal of blondie's. Turns out his currently in the works screenwriting project is a romantic comedy entitled "Porn Star".
That dovetailed completely with some thinking I've been doing about what a love relationship with a porn star might be like, and under what conditions I could and couldn't handle it. Not, as the most shallow among you might suppose, because that is some great hope against "starbanging" hope I'm having. In some ways the reverse. Rather it's because the sorts of permission to have lots of slutty sex at least on the set, but getting a real sexual charge out of it, which we give porn stars raises lots of interesting questions about monogamy, sexual openness and relationships. If you think seriously about it for a while. After all, it seems most porn stars do have committed love relationships. And by no means always with porn actors who are doing the same thing. How is that possible???
So that part of this starts in the "Porn Stars and Marital Fidelity" thread, which blondie, as well as Tricia Devereaux, Tina, Kimi Lixx and Wendy Divine participated in, over in the Star Crossed Forum.
Blondie --Well THAT's pretty damn cool, realistic and worldly.
You DO REALIZE that you have just gone against virtually the entire propaganda output of Hollywood mainstream romantic comedies of the 90's, and 00's, don't you???
But I really wonder if secret affairs once in a while are really the best thing. I wonder if they don't have much MORE potential to spin out of control than open permission once in a while to have just sex.
God, I'm so sorry that you don't like threesomes.
Cause I LOVE them. Not as an all the time or regular thing, but as a once in a while thing, I think they are just wonderful. Yeah, I'm like 98% a one on one type of guy. But yes I've done them. Not in most relationships but in a few. Successfully in two. They just make you feel so naughty, special and different. Like you're living on a different level. I'm always super careful about it. The only time it has ever worked is when the woman I'm with has been in total control over everything about it. She picked the girl. Otherwise she tends to get green eyed beyond belief, even when she thinks she won't. Appetite on her part helps heaps too. But when those two things are there, sometimes it can be wonderful. And make the two of you appreciate the HELL out of each other all the more.
In my experience it only works on a base of a really strong, crazy about each other relationship. On a somewhat faltering one it just lead to disaster. Well, not really, it helped accelerate the end of that relationship. Which was no doubt actually for the best.
quote: "You DO REALIZE that you have just gone against virtually the entire propaganda output of Hollywood mainstream romantic comedies of the 90's, and 00's, don't you???"
It's just that there are much worse things than your S/O boinking someone else, and in the grand scheme of things, that is really not that important ~ That's why I have little patience with people who come all unglued about such things, end up destroying what was otherwise a good and worthwhile relationship, obsess over it, some even to the point of letting their life spin out of control, commit suicide, or whatever. Get a grip, you know?
But again, what I don't know won't hurt me. I don't want 'veto power' or my approval sought for such things, please! That is just too weird. Plus, having to get your wife/husband's approval for outside sex (or worse, 'incorporating' them into the sex as well) seems to take the fun out of it, don't you think?
I don't know what the answer is, dex. Heck, I'm not even sure what the question is. heh heh
Love is the answer, but while you're waiting for the answer, sex raises some pretty good questions. Woody Allen
quote dex: "So now back to the suitcase pimp. He's got himself into thinking it's OK if his wife screws other guys on the set, and it's OK if she really comes, and really loves the wildness of two at once in DP's and so on, and loves some huge cocks at least for exhibitionist display and challenge purposes, and so on -- as LONG AS HE'S in CONTROL of who else she can screw. As long as she gives him veto power (if she still wants a mutual love relationship with him to continue and to be strong, or maybe even stronger). NOW this is starting to make some psychosexual sense to me. Dangerous, edgie, but I can project into it maybe. There could actually be a huge CHARGE to that. But it's CRUCIAL he be a gatekeeper on the strange, otherwise he's just a cuckold. A powerless pathetic sucker. She's got to get his OK (as well as hers) of any male actor she's gonna screw on the set." **********************************************
Or, he could be just a manipulative user and parasite.
dex, I thought I would answer your inquiry here about whether or not I discussed your theory with Favreau about it being more than 'just a job' for most porn stars.
Once I found out that he already has the story and characters written, and it is just the ending that he's having a hard time with, I didn't get into that, because it's not something he would know, or even care about, really. As a romantic comedy, he is not even attempting to approach reality, or whatever reality may exist in porn.
The flaw I see in your conclusions comes from your acceptance of the veracity the various interviews and statements made by certain performers, when you really can't believe much of anything you read when it comes to porn. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, it's just impossible to know.
Yeah, I hear you blondie about not knowing whether one can believe porn stars in interviews. More about that in a minute.
Part of what leads me to my "It ain't just a job" theory is that it's hard for me to believe that the sexes are just totally 100% different in that area. I DO think they ARE different in how important emotional intimacy tends to be to their sexuality. I believe that's much more so than may people seem to theorize. But I don't think they are 100% different. They would have to be 100% different if the "it's just a job" for porn star women is going to be accurate. Yeah I know male porn actors are sometimes not really that into it or the particular actress, but sometimes they are. And all say so.
As well, my contention that "it's just a job" isn't accurate doesn't mean I'm saying it's all fun and games. The "it's not just a job" reality creates real internal conflicts and problems for porn actress from all I can see and learn. It's riding a volcano. Particularly for the women it seems like. (The main problem for the men seems to be the relative lack of respect, money and fame for most, compared to the women. And their unattractiveness to women outside the industry. Rather than as much internal conflict. Anyway, that's what it seems like.)
(Also, lots of other jobs aren't just jobs either. What you do can change you, especially if its a particulary emotionally involving career. Cops get changed by being cops, etc. Having as apparently intense sex as possible with skads of different people is just inherently an emotionally involving sort of profession, don't you think??? <gg>)
As well, I think that to some considerable degree when one really throws oneself into performing or acting, one BECOMES what one is acting for awhile. Mainstream and art actors say this all the time. They have to reach down and find something real if they are going to do it well.
Well, I think porn performers, when they are good and heated anyway, have to do something similar on the sex side. And in the processes, often feel something really hot for that period of time. Which then does change them, does change and heighten and help mold aspects of their sexuality, etc. as Tricia and others have said here among other places. (It got her into rough sex, anal, hair pulling, etc. so that she really likes those things off the set as well.)
Of course I think that this will be less true of girls doing Vivid scenes than Evil Angel ones. Vivid often allows for a certain amount of detachment -- which can also be felt by many viewers, at least if they have seen a lot of the more intense stuff.
As far as pornstars not telling the truth when being interviewed goes, of course it's hard to impossible to know for sure. Still, some interviews or statements ring a lot truer than others. My guess is that what often or usually happens in the more candid interviews on this sort of subject is that pornstars tend to tell PARTIAL truths. They tend to emphasize one side or another of an emotionally complex area, depending on what they want to get across.
It could be the "nothing compares to sex with my husband who I love" side of the truth, which is for his consumption, and for the type of fan who wants to put porn girls on an untouchable star goddess pedastal. Or it could be the "I wouldn't do this if I didn't really get into BOTH the men and the women and love all the wild sex, and excuse to screw different people in a safe environment" side for the gonzo hardcore fan base, and to impress wild side directors and fellow actors and the like."
I think both are often true. In the same way that a guy can love having abandoned sex with a wild girl he picks up and screws at a party, but at the same time not find that as emotionally meaningful as making love to his girlfriend or wife.
What's interesting about porn is that while many guys come to that sort of thing naturally, women seem to much less. (Alhough of course some outside of porn do.) But porn pushes them in that direction. What the true personal and emotional result then is, is fascinating to me.
I'd love to find something that really explores this. Particularly in the porn world, since it's a concentration of this sort of issue. Ian Gittler's "Pornstar", while very much worth reading and a window into this world (and it has some really fine photos), is also something of a disappointment. He doesn't go very deeply into the psyches of many porn stars. He's much more a photographer than a writer. This also seems to be HIS reticence much more than that of many of theirs. He seems to me to be afraid of what he'd find -- particularly towards the end. It's frustrating.
Endorphin nervously gets down on his knees. He fumbles around in his pockets until he cums..er..I mean finds what he is looking for. He pulls the object out and trys to utter the words..."Blondie would you mar..er..could you..". eventually he realizes that he just needs to say it "Blondie, can I be your suitcase pimp"?
Endo, I am truly touched by your proposition, and I assure you, if I were a porn star I would be honored to be suitcase pimped by you (actually, your alter ego Talleyman is much more *suited* to the job requirements of suitcase pimpism). Blondie
Reflections on the bedroom wall And girl, you thought you'd seen it all We're risin', fallin' like at sea You're lookin' so good under me
I'm gonna walk all over you I'm gonna walk all over you Do anything you want me to I'm gonna walk all over you
Blondie, I'm glad you finally responded, but I must admit i was a little disturbed. As we all know, it is nerve racking enough to even extend the suitcase pimp proposal, let alone to actually have to wait for a response. I'm not sure how better suited Tallyman would be, he'd probably spend all the time on the set marking his territory and starting fights with male costars.
Anyways, I am sad that you did not say yes. May have to drown my sorrow tonight while listening to blues. May even have to watch a chick flick and cry...then again, maybe not.
Gimme a bullet to bite on and I'll make believe its you
You could handle being a suitcase pimp for about one day I think.<g>
What with your strict monogomy emotional convictions and all.
the purple haze must be especially thick over at the lair this afternoon. <g>
I rather doubt that blondie's *more French than the French" views on adultury would exactly settle your stomach either. <g> In haze free moments, that is. <gg>
dex, you just had to use my own words against me, didn't you?
What is <g> and <gg>?
astro, TEAM ENDO, I like that. Why does Nav always get pulled into the mess Naughty Nav creates? Nav says he will have nothing to do with this suitcase pimp business. Naughty Nav says he will be happy to be the fluffee for Blondie's female costars. Tallyman wants 70% of earnings...gross earnings. Dorph says he can film any scene she is in for under $5.
quote "I rather doubt that blondie's *more French than the French" views on adultury would exactly settle your stomach either."
Maybe I should elaborate a little on my views about that. I'm not sure how the French view it, but I'm not advocating it at all, I just think it's a shame that when it does happen, it is often viewed as an unforgivable sin, instead of something that can and often does happen among our species. I would not be interested in a relationship where I had to be the warden for someone's genitals, I would want him to be with me because he wanted to be with me, not because he was afraid of losing me. Am I making sense?
You might think 'Well, that sounds rational and all, but I bet it's never happened to you'. Not true. I shouldn't even count my marriage, because that doesn't even fall into any 'normal range' of responses, and by the time he started (about 5 days after the wedding) I was no longer 'in love' with him anyway.
I was very much in love with an intelligent and attractive German guy after that, he healed me and helped me sooo much in every way. Sex was awesome. We were planning to be married, but on the night before we were to fly to Berlin to meet his family, I went out and did something really stupid and made sure I'd be caught. Yes, I KNOW that's really fucked up, and that will haunt me forever. I don't know why I did it, but I'm not going to blame 'too much to drink' or anything else. Actually, this doesn't fall into the 'normal range' of behavior either, so let's move on....
My last true love and I broke up over a year ago, after 4 years of living together. He is a very dynamic, highly sexual man, the kind that women are always coming on to, and he to them. No, I never 'cheated'(I hate that term) on him, but he at one time confessed to a couple of one-nighters. Hardly surprising, but I REALLY wished he hadn't told me, it hurt real bad. But it didn't occur to me to leave him over this. Why? Because I loved him and wanted to be with him! People aren't perfect, in fact we're animals when it comes down to it. Perhaps if I didn't love him that much, I might have said 'No way, I'm out of here.' But then, I wouldn't have been with him in the first place, you know?
You have to weigh the good vs the bad, and here the good outweighed the bad, by far. You can't dwell on it either, or use it against someone, if you decide to stay. Just get over it, and be glad for what you do have. If the other person continues this behavior however, that's a different story, and maybe he thought I would always be there, no matter what. I was even willing to get past his affair, but by this time I think he had had enough of domestic bliss, and was chompin' at the bit, so when it got to this point, of course I said 'See ya, don't let the door hit you in the ass and don't even think about coming back!'
There is some satisfaction in the fact that he has been sniffing around lately, like some old tomcat, but I couldn't care less. Kinda like a German guy I used to know and love, who, after marrying someone deserving of him, and selling his microchip company to Intel for millions, looked me up to say "Hi".
