NL was a big porn market until 2003. The late 80s and 90s were dominated by Seventeen and other Video Art Holland Productions. ( Then came the stricter european porn laws § )
But now our dutch market is also flooded by, apologize US members, mostly bad US porn movies. Sure, you can find classics like the high quality movies from Vivid etc. But tons of very bad 8 hours samplers are blocking the wall space. Interrupted by terrible telephone sex ads. I hope they melt all these bad movies one time.
But what you're not getting is that there is a very solid wall of opposition to porn that will never go away....even if it gains some acceptance in the mainstream pop culture.
Think of it as kind of like weed. Weed has (at times) gained tremendous acceptance in the pop culture. But it's still illegal almost everywhere. Of course, porn isn't illegal (yet) but I'm just trying to make a comparison.
I keep saying this (in different threads) but the most serious opposition to porn doesn't come from people who are just ignorant and will learn to accept it. It comes from "true believers" haters. These people are hardcore. They will never accept porn. And they're very influential.
Erm... those bad 8 hour movies are probably from Vivid as well, lol. They're notorious for their unskippable commercials and never-ending recycling of old scenes.
I dont know 8 hours DVDs from Vivid, these Discount DVDs ( 8 hours !, but mostly they ran only 4 hours ) are from companys like Leisure etc. I have never heard of, until our shops were flooded with this crap.
I dont like most of the Vivid movies, only some, but women will give this a try, because they are marketed and look like big budget hollywood movies.
Many women like the way the Playboy "Movies" are made - they look like videoclips and are soft.
I know, that you cant convince the porn haters, or should I say the christian right, and all of the follow up armys of the "true believers".
Even here in the (former) liberal Netherlands, the christian right is growing and will be integrated in our new government ( even if the christian union isnt as far right as the evangelical christs in the US ). I cant understand, why some people are thinking, that they have to tell people how they have to live. This reminds me of communism, but not of a liberal democracy. And the USA today resembles more the McCarthy "democracy", than the mild liberal-democratic times of Mr.Clinton.
We cant convince the porn-hater and hatemongers, but we can convince intelligent citizens, that porn isnt for unintelligent idiots only.
In the USA we have had quite a turn in the barrel with a fundamentalist moron misgoverning our country for the past six years. Fortunately, the electorate came to its senses in the glorious first Tuesday of this past November and gave the Congressional GOP the Order of the Boot. We hope that the citizenry of The Netherlands spare themselves the misrule of the fundamentalists that we have endured since they fraudulently seized power in 2001.
Thank you I've received several compliments on that. Ironically, when I first selected it, I thought, perhaps, it was inappropriate for this forum but it seems to be fairly well-received.IMO, it's because it's a central part of the dogma. They've been conditioned to believe they aren't "good Christians" if they allow other people to "live in sin". This is what makes this particular brand of Christianity so hard to deal with. They claim all they want is to be left alone to believe as they see fit but a big part of their belief is that they can't allow you to do the same. It sounds crazy and it is but that's pretty much it.It is very reminiscent of McCarthyism. I've been saying that since 2002. I can't turn on the TV without being reminded of McCarthyism.Unfortunately, the haters have a goody two shoes facade that is virtually impenetrable. If you're an everyday person who doesn't pay a lot of attention to politics, who are you going to get behind and stand up for? The "sleazy" porn people or the nice "family values" church people? Well, because you are who you are, you would know better but there are a lot of people who don't really follow politics. And the only thing they know about porn is what they hear from their preacher or on the news. They are sheep. They don't want to be anything else but sheep. They know they are sheep and they don't care. All that matters to them is their little patch of grass, their offspring and the ass end of the sheep in front of them.
Edited by - randomprecision on 4/8/2007 4:39:44 AM
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro 306 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 8 2007 : 4:36AM
What could possibly be inappropriate about a Great old Pink Floyd song? Now you've got me fixing to break it out. And not just break it out, but break it out on Vinal.
Its not THAT worse in my country, the right wingers, Christian Unity, are only a splinter fraction, but they will get 2 ministers in the new government. But in the last government here, the rightwingers ( calling themselves "right-liberals", which is only a euphemism for right-nationalism ) had two important ressorts, justice and immigrants dept/police/security, so they transformed the whole country. Our minister president is still relative left, for a christian democrat. He has nothing against porn, as long as all actors are 18+. Left Liberals here are mostly for the old minimum age of 16. Only the Christian Right and the extreme Right-Wingers ( you can call them Neo-Nazis ) are against porn here, and a part of the Social Democrats. But it is common sense among Christian Democrats, Centre, Liberals and even communists, that porn should be legal. I think that is the big difference to the USA. But if you look at the Netherlands in 2002 and look at the situation now, only 5 years later, its a terrible conservative "revolution".
Of course there's a thin line between make-believe and reality with Max, but I think it's fair to say that he more than anyone else has done more to take new girls fresh off the bus and really give them the treatment like they hadn't imagined.
If you don't like it, I suggest that unscrupulous agents would be a better group to blame than Max and friends.
I don't know. I have a really hard time believing that someone would do something like porn without watching a few porn flicks first. It's not like 18 year olds can't go and rent a few porn flicks. Max isn't really that harder than everybody else (except for the pissing and stuff)
I never really understood the handfull of girls who, after working with Max, complained of rape and abuse later(sometimes a couple of years or so after the shoot). Max has been around a while. if your a girl/woman thinking about working for hims, why not google his name or type his name into you web-browser with a .com after it? Is it really all that hard to do? Watch a couple of the Euro-version trailers, available for free, on his site and get somekind of rough idea what you are to expect working with him. Would it be all that hard?
Brianna Banks complained about her shoot with him that happened early in her career, in a couple of interviews I've read(don't remember where, or feel like digging them up). Then why the holy hell did she go back for a second scene, if it was so terrible and soul-crushing the first time?
I think maybe you underestimate how naive a young girl fresh into porn can be. I mean, I think on ADT we see quite a small and probably not very representative sample of porn stars - the ones who post her are mostly pretty articulate and intelligent. I guess there are lots more who really aren't as smart and don't have much idea of how the world works. Probably we see less of them because they do a couple of scenes, get fucked over by their agent, and disappear without a trace.
Same for Olivia, she claimed the first time she worked for Max he raped her but she then did another scene with him right after. Can't be the desperation for money.
I do wonder at how well informed the girls are when they do a scene with Max.
You'd like to think that their agents would make them fully aware, maybe show them a Max video, at least so they would know beforehand what they were getting into.
It would be interesting to hear from a pornstar or agent on this.
According to Tiffany Mynx's interview with HEVG many years ago (I think it was the interview of 1992) Jim South sent her to Max for her fist job without giving her any warning. Since she was pretty new she had no idea she was entering Sodom and Gomorrah.
If you go back to "page 2" of this thread, you can read my answer to your question.
The actress my girlfriend met, had no idea who Max Hardcore was, because she was french and he was totally unknown THEN. ( Or only known to porn experts, and very few 18-year old girls are porn experts ) If she had seen only on of his movies, she never had shot one second with him. She only wanted to shoot golden shower scenes, because it was her sexual preference. She didnt complained, but later worked with french porn companys only.
Max isnt normal porn with piss, as someone stated, but pure woman-hating junk. I love golden shower games too, on video and in real, but I hate his macho crap.
Have you noticed the thing Max does where he puts a huge amount of lipstick around girl's lips and draws on their face? I don't get what this is all about.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - May 26 2007 : 4:59PM
Max has a very small a dick so he compensates with over the top bravado. He is influential though, most stuff now has throat fucking and anal. He has always made these activities a staple of his videos.
Here's what I don't understand, why does he make the girls ugly? I want her to look as fine as possible the whole time I'm doing her. What turns a guy on about a woman who's a disgusting mess?
he destroys them. he systematically removes every ounce of their dignity to prove his superiority because he's masking some major insecurities. he's full of rage and confusion.
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Alfredo92 Deactivated User
Honolulu 127 Posts 2/06
Posted - May 27 2007 : 4:42AM
Nah. He's just some luck schmuck that knows how to use shock to make money.
He's not a shocker, he's an innovater trying new things. Some things work while some not but at least he's trying it. I mean I'm not into those schoolgirls outfit and those skinny girls but that's my personal opinion and I'm not gonna blame Max for that.For you perhaps but he's been in this business for 15 years and still going strong so he must be doing something good.
nice assonance, but quite off the mark. if you are good at observing people you can intuit these kinds of things. i was being hyperbolic, but i don't think you can dismiss it as 'using shock to make money.' that's naive and irresponsible.
Kiddie porn sells like hotcakes. Can you write that off as "different tastes" as well? Some things are indeed bad for the soul, many of which are marketable. Max is in that category...
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - May 27 2007 : 6:18PM
Basically porn has become the lowest common denominator. If I want art I watch a great indie film like Half Nelson or for a big budget I love Scorcese shit. Porn is rarely about artistic value to me. I know other people like features but to me very few of them are well done and the sex is lame. Some of the classics were great like "Deep Throat", also some PT stuff is good but for the most part porn is their to get off and shut off. Porn to me is watching girls do things that you would probably never see in real life, for example Baker's Dozen or American Gokkun total shock value. Max is a douche I don't buy off on him, he has a tiny dick, but if he has a big enough marketplace force to self sustain all power to him. Also a lot of the girls he gets are just not attractive. One scene with Courtney SImpson was hot, he's like keep those toes poited she says very tersly "their pointed" it was her first scene. She was a great girl who put out tons of great smut.
Actually, it's great ... there's nothing wrong with recreational drugs in moderation. Unfortunately, most people can't moderate their drugs. I happen to be unable to moderate my alcohol usage, but I've never had a problem using any drug as a very occasional experience. The only exception was crystal meth, and I stopped after three or four occasions because the shit was too damn good.
It's not anything Max "does" that appalls me. It's Max himself. When Manuel Ferrara does something like Max, the girls love it.
Indeed. If Max looked like Rocco or Manuel, there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy surrounding him or his movies. People outside the porn world would still try and make him look like a monster but they do that habitually with anyone who makes any kind of porn so it's to be expected.
Edited by - randomprecision on 5/27/2007 6:56:59 PM
I think Max must have the strongest stomach in the WORLD to actually enjoy all that vomit and stuff. Can you imagine the SMELL in those rooms where they do filming? BLECH!!!
Word and not the girls but obviously also the fans like a double standard thing. When Iron, Everhard and Ferrara do the rough sex acts everybody is loving it because they love these guys but when Max does it it's all of a sudden wrong and too much.
I think pornfans need people like Max so they can point their fingers and say "that's the bad guy."
what i take issue with is ethical. i'm sure you agree that art imitates life imitates art. it doesn't matter what medium, it's going to influence people. regardless of whether or not what he does is an act, it isn't a good thing if his misogynistic attitude trickles into other products and, more importantly, to the impressionable viewer.
of course, some people are more discerning than others, but if you watch enough movies where calling girls whores is the norm, like the pavlovian dog you are you'll start to think of them as whores.
plus, he kisses them and acknowledges that they have a vagina that doesn't require a speculum to be found.
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deepudicks Deactivated User
If The Good Times Did Not Last Then Believe Me Me The Bad Times Shall Also Passs 100 Posts 2/07
Posted - May 28 2007 : 2:20PM
Finally one truly sensible opinion.It's all about demand and supply.On one hand you go blue in the face and have hysterical fits about works that truly piss you off and yet I have a gut feeling that the same people cursing this genre of porn filming are actually the ones who spread chinese whispers enquiring when the next release of Max would be out in the market. While some dude needs to make some shallow and rather lame excuse that even though his blood boils and he splits a blood vessel as he sees an ugly man piss on two immature(?)10 year olds yet he cannot resist seeing the movies coz the gurls are soo hot.
Until there is a market out there ranting and screaming in forums ain't gonna to nothing. And for God sake grow up.So what if you all find Max Hardcore ugly n repulsive.Quite apparently the money he offers for the starlets services on camera is too godamn attractive for them to say no.
And please believe me starlets in porn may appear to be dumb and innocent(yuks)but they have razor sharp brains and apart from the very rare born dumbos most of them know which side their bread is buttered and they ain't stoopid enough to mix business with pleasure.
At the end of the day it's the money they take home that matters...rarely anything else...So stop shedding tears for these exploited girls who are being exploited...Nobody is being exploited..Long before the camera rolls they know what is expected from them and what they shall be taking home.Nobody ever puts a gun to the back of their head and threatens to blast their brains out if they don't perform.
So if you don't like this genre of porn be cool and refuse to see it.It's amusing that folks here have not seen any of Max Hardcore's releases in the last 10-15 years and even then they have such a violent opinion about his work...Speaks volumes of how influencing the buster actually is...Need I say more?
Edited by - hardware on 5/28/2007 3:15:23 PM
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deepudicks Deactivated User
If The Good Times Did Not Last Then Believe Me Me The Bad Times Shall Also Passs 100 Posts 2/07
Posted - May 28 2007 : 2:30PM
Hey Carolina,"Giving Porn A Bad Name"That's a classic one-liner that takes the entire bakery and baker along with the cake...While porn has been in my blood for longer than I care to remember my memory fades away when I try to recollect when Porn actually had a good name...to begin with?
I'm glad you made a promise that you'll never ever rent any of his movies again but what about those who place their advance order to purchase his latest offering several weeks ahead of release? Until they are around nothing can be done,Until and unless the performers are not repulsed enough to say no to the moolah they get to be degraded(they don't seem to find it so?)on camera and folks refuse to buy the creepy stuff..Till then it's going to be wishful thinking and throwing stones at the sky to chase away the demons below...But none the less a decent n honest start has atleast been made...Hope your tribe increases...Amen
Edited by - hardware on 5/28/2007 3:15:44 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - May 28 2007 : 11:58PM
I will say this about his influence. When I first saw his shit, I was like WTF, now his stuff is almost typical every gonzo has throat fucking etc... So he filled a gap and many have imitated.
[/quote] Manuel's domination clearly has a different intent from Max's. [/quote] How does one go about discerning "intent?" I think the "intent" of both Manuel and Max are about the same....to sell porn and make $$. But then I'm a bit pragmatic about the industry goals. Edited by - Lubenluv on 5/31/2007 9:18:25 AM
In some porn documentary there's this girl signing for a scene with Max, he asks if she has ever seen any of his movies, she replies that her boyfriend is the one that knows all the movies. I wouldn't send my girlfriend to max if I knew about his movies... And regarding Manuel, I think there's a huge diffirence between being his horny self, and Max being his misogynic self. Edited by - Gunzo on 5/31/2007 9:22:41 AM
One of the last Max movies I ever saw was the one with Courtney Simpson...I actually only watched her scene and the BTS segment on the same DVD. This was the Euro version, but not sure if anything was left out on the US release. 2 things stood out to me then.... 1) Courtney is clearly new to the biz when this was made. I've read interviews with her where it seems like this was either her first, or at least ONE of her first, sex scenes ever filmed for DVD release. It shows. She's got the "watch the camera" thing going on all the time, very common for amateurs. But even still, she stays in character for the WHOLE scene, lets herself be posed/tossed around and genuinely seems to be enjoying being used by Max the entire time. Even when he pisses into her open mouth, she works her tongue and gargles the stuff and smiles and never flinches....I've seen more flinches during normal cumshots than with her here. So either she was a bonafide slut before she got into porn and did this shoot or a helluva actress. 2) EXCEPTION TO ABOVE: The anal in this scene was NOT comfortable for her. It only lasts for a few mins tops, very shallow, with her on top both times controlling the penetration. During the BTS she talks quite a bit about how anal gave he a "stinging" sensation and Max, good guy that he is (ugh) tells her all about how her ass will open up over time. Now for the really interesting part..... During the same BTS, Max begins to give Courtney coaching about her career, asks if she had worked with Ed Powers yet (she said she hasn't), offers to recommend her to a few other "easy" porn producers who don't require anal (since she obviously didn't like it), etc etc etc. It's kinda creepy actually if you fall for Max's shtick and really believe him to be demon-spawned. He's very cordial, very complimentary of her performance and very....well.....almost "fatherly" sounding. Yeah I know that's a hard word to hear next to his name, I even struggled to type it. But it's true.....towards the end of the BTS Max even rags on the camera guy for leaving the camera running and capturing it all (half of the BTS segment is just filming a blank wall where Courtney USED to be standing). So back to my original point.....MAX IS AN ACT. Whether or not you like his act is a matter of personal preference. But his act sells DVD's to some segment of the population and at the end of the day I think far too many posters ascribe far too much intent to his work and the work of others. He makes porn to make $$. There is no other purpose here that I can tell.
I'd take a big shit on his favorite sofa if I ever got into his house. The fact that he's been able to ride his schtick to such an amazing pile of cash says more about the masses than I wanted intuition into the human condition. It's depressing. You people are sick! Of course, he's laughing all the way to the bank. Interesting point about what he does versus Manuel, etc. If I sexually harass women at work, they giggle, but if the creepy guy with the criminal record out on the plant floor does it, it's harassment. That's depressing, too. Not really. Actually, I'm glad I'm not creepy plant guy. Edited by - cobalt60 on 5/31/2007 10:16:25 AM
I've seen scenes which he shoots himself, where no one can say 'Ok, that's enough, give her a break'. And that's very disturbing knowing what kind of sex he likes (that it's just an act is bullshit, he LIKES to treat women like he does...).
Oh, I agree they're both in it to make money. However, you're being obtuse if you think they're playing the same part, let alone aiming at the same market.
And let's face it...people want to see the sickest shit the law will allow. It's smut. It's reputation depends on it being shocking, degrading, disgusting, revolting, repulsive and all of those other words proper society uses to describe things that turn them on more than they want to admit. People want to see Max so they can get online and talk about how repugnant it all was (even though they remember every second of it...down to the last detail. they obviously weren't watching through their fingers). They have to convince the world (and themselves) that they really weren't turned on by it in the very least. They didn't rent or buy a Max Hardcore movie on purpose. They had no idea. Yeah...right. But watch they do. And I'm sure a good many feel guilty during or afterward. I mean, who wouldn't? There you are, typical guy. Max has some chick flung over the edge of something. He's doing his "YEEEEEEEAH!" thing. Puke is running down her face, dripping from her hair. She's got a speculum in her ass. The whole thing is just so....well, you know. And you can't help it but it turns you on. You don't know why. But DAMN HIM for making you feel this way!
Keep talking, jackass. You exposing my hypocrisy even as you go into such knowing, lurid detail - it's just TOO MUCH!! TOO MUCH!! Take it, whore! TAKE IT!! YEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!
Max Hardcore @ AEBN
Posted - Apr 7 2007 : 4:53AM
