Edited by - tobias on 12/28/2009 6:26:15 PM
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Max Hardcore @ AEBN| Author | Post |
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| Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09 |  Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 6:23PMEdited by - tobias on 12/28/2009 6:26:15 PM [Link] |
BlackSix  All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 7:37PM But to get a bit more OT, I think it's helpful to remember that porn use to be, and on the books outside California still is, ILLEGAL to even shoot! People were thrown in jail just for being on set, yet the porn industry continued and even prospered. This kind of harassment of pornographers has been part and parcel of working in porn from day one. [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 7:50PM How do you know what the majority of people do or don't like? Have you conducted an official poll? You can speak only for yourself and your own tastes. By the way, Max never defecated on anyone in his movies. Also, depending on who you ask, all women in porn are treated like garbage. In case you missed it, the alleged degradation of women has remained the most popular criticism against pornography ever since modern porn was invented, and I don't think Max was around back then.So you're basing your negative opinion of the man on hearsay from another man who's made no secret about disliking him. Also, it sounds like some agents are a tad too controlling in the decisions of the models they represent, which seems more disturbing than his actual warning. Just going by your post, the whole warning sounds suspicious, like there were some other underlying issues going on with your agent than just being purely concerned with your career. Besides, let's not forget all the other girls who actually did work with Max who don't share your opinion of him. I think one of them even testified on his behalf at his trial. But of course, that doesn't matter. Like your agent and others here are basically saying, women are too weak and fragile to handle making their own decisions. Therefore, since women in porn obviously cannot take care of themselves, we need to protect you all from big bad men like Max.In other words, they're achieving the same goal, just with less work. Just like fu_q already said, what gets labelled the "worst stuff" gradually changes as what was formerly the "worst stuff" gets taken out of the way. Arguably, some people feel that Max and Rob Black were "worse" than Stagliano. So, now that Max and Rob are out of the way, the focus goes onto the next "worse" guy on the list, and so on down the line. That's why these people who keep cheering whenever one of these "worst" guys get convicted simply don't know what they're asking for. Like you said, the Feds aren't stupid. They have a strategy for this type of thing. It's just that some of us are too caught up in arguing about who we do and don't like to see what the bigger picture is, and what's really going on. Furthermore, had there been no Max or Rob Black convictions, there would probably be no Stagliano prosecution. And those who say that there's a difference between the cases are sounding very naive, considering that they're being charged for exactly the same thing. Edited by - realtip on 12/28/2009 7:53:02 PM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 7:56PM PS. your 'suspicions' are absurd. [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 7:59PM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 8:07PM As for as it all being hearsay, well this isn't Law & Order, if one hears enough stories about someone, there's a reason. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/28/2009 8:12:54 PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 8:20PM As for Law & Order, I guess there's a reason that hearsay isn't admissible in court. It doesn't matter whether it's from one person, or 1,000 people. You're still going off of what someone else told you rather than actual firsthand knowledge. Personally speaking, depending on the situation, I tend to take hearsay with a grain of salt. Also, if you're going to believe everything you hear about Max, what about all those girls I mentioned who did work with him, and had no problems with him? Or should we just disregard their experiences, which aren't based on hearsay, because they don't fit into our own personal biases? [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 8:27PM Kimi was the only performer of any profile who I've ever heard say she had no problems working with Max, but then she was an experienced with very rough sex and had few limits so why would she have had any issues working with him? It's not like anyone can be a miserable prick 24/7, so just because some people didn't have issues with Max doesn't discredit everyone else. There use to be people who would defend Rob Black too, notably things only really turned against him once his cheques started to bounce: the only thing that no one will accept in the 'industry.' [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 8:41PM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 8:43PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 9:13PM If you are going to hurl accusations at people, you should know something about them. If you are familiar with my posts and you still think I'm a misogynist, your perception of misogyny is warped beyond all recognition. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/28/2009 9:21:57 PM [Link] |
| Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 9:17PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 9:44PM [Link] |
| mariahxxx Member 184 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 10:00AM he was simply watching out for the girls who worked for him. Max would come to his office and kiss his ass and try to find new girls as they entered or left his office on Van Nuys. he was made to leave many times over the years and Jim wouldn't book through him because of how he treated the girls. You should ask Stephanie Swift about how she was treated by Max, or Alexandra Silk who shot an anal scene for him and he gave her $200 and said she wasn't any good after he hired her for $1200 when she was brand new. He was known to be the bottom of the barrel as far as directors go and the only girls who stayed with him or shot for him more than once were the bottom of the barrel as well and were always strung out. As far as the government busting him for distribution not being something he actually did to break the law, well I can't order my own movies from Excalibur films and have them sent to where I live due to laws. When you are in the distribution business you are supposed to know this. he DID break the law and was punished accordingly. Russ Hampshire the former owner of VCA went to prison because his shipment of videos was accidentally sent to Alabama in 1991. the law is the law and if you're gonna be a major player in this business you have to be aware of the laws and act accordingly. max didn't and now he pays for it. When you push the envelope to the point that he did then you invite the investigation and though some may see that as relevant it is bringing it down on not just him but all of us and we didn't ask for it. We aren't the ones pushing the envelope. If he wants to do that let him go to Germany and be one of the many. Good riddance. I don't agree with censorship but when you know that there is a right wing religious zealot in power you don't do what he did without this happening. I have no issue with those who stand up for what they believe, however when you treat people like shit and treat 18 and 19 year old girls like trash the way he has done then I say this is simply his karma being dosed out, but in my humble opinion this is hardly payment enough for the scars he has put on many girls over the years. I hope he is raped beyond his ability to withstand it in prison even though I know it isn't going to happen, unfortunately. [Link] |
| posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 11:30AM Only German porn I've seen was pretty mainstream. Anyway, agree that the stuff he's apparently been pulling off poisons the waters for the rest of the industy, including the consumer side. The industry doesn't need that kind of 'buffer zone' between it's mainstream and authorities. It's annoying how the fans of this kind of material frame their loss as everybody else's. Authorities can try and go after whoever they want, Stagliano or whoever, there's no way 12 people will all find someone guilty who does nothing besides filming some harmless regular sex. Porn is not going to go away because people like Max Hardcore go away, no matter how often his fans keep repeating it. Edited by - posthum on 12/29/2009 11:32:02 AM [Link] |
| fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 11:50AM I'm sure that we all hope that you're right. (PS--not a Max fan) [Link] |
| charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 2:54PM my opinion is the porn industry could do more to shut down abusive producers such as max, so we would not need to be grateful to a government that locks him up on bullshit charges. [Link] |
| Mastrick Member 220 Posts 5/06 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 3:09PM [Link] |
| charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 3:54PM [Link] |
| Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 5:05PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 6:25PM Leaving well enough alone will leave the government to decide when to swoop in and prosecute someone. It's completely arbitrary and there is no way to peacefully coexist with a rule that doesn't specifically tell you when you're breaking the law.No. With Max behind bars, the people who spent their time and energy on Max have nothing better to do than to start looking into the rest of the industry to find their next victim(s). I shouldn't say they have nothing better to do. They had better things to do than to file obscenity charges against Max and John but you see what they chose to do. In other words, they have better things to do but they have their own priorities. And it's obvious enough what they are. [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 3:22AM Brianna Banks Davia Ardell Mya Nichole Olivia Celeste Mulet Asia Chiquita Lopez And Many Others... I would hardly call these girls "bottom of the barrel."Nobody asks for it. Max, Rob, Stagliano, and whoever the next pornographer is who gets indicted for obscenity, didn't ask for it. The only people who are asking for it are the ones who see nothing wrong with throwing people in jail for making dirty movies. All these other guys I mentioned did was make movies that offended some people. But since when has offending people become a crime? As for "pushing the envelope," so what? Is "pushing the envelope" now illegal too? If so, then who decides how far it gets to be pushed? As for your comment about going to Germany, is this what we have come to now? We're now telling people that they need to leave America to be able to exercise their freedoms of expression? Wow! There was a time when people all over the world thought it was the other way around. People came here to live freely, and to do as they please within the just bounds of law. It was only slightly more than a half-century ago when we were fighting against Germany based on the principles of freedom and justice. Now, we're telling people that's where they need to go to avoid being sent to jail for (gasp!) showing sex on video. Something is seriously wrong with this. Obviously, we're going backwards instead of forward. As you know, you're entitled to your opinion of anyone, as we all are. I cannot comment on your personal experiences or opinions of someone else. But I'm sorry, not liking someone, or thinking that he's an asshole, is not supposed to justify sending him to prison. There are plenty of people who I dislike. Fortunately, I cannot think of anyone who I dislike so much that I would take pleasure in seeing that person incarcerated for nothing. I think that people who take pleasure in such things are more disturbed than the people they claim to hate. To celebrate seeing someone lose his entire freedom just because people don't like him is absolutely reprehensible. If seeing someone be unjustly punished makes somone else feel good, or somehow vindicated based on nothing more than a personal dislike or hatred for that person, then that says something more terrible about the person who takes delight in it than anything else. [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 4:49AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 5:28AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 5:30AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 5:32AM Seriously, these three are fucking nuts. [Link] |
| fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 5:58AM I agree that it's likely that porn will still be around and manage to survive these types of trials. History has shown that--no doubt. That's not so much my point in all of this. My primary objections are based on the principle of people being prosecuted for obscenity at all. They are also based on the absolute (IMO) injustice of such trials and their trumped-up nature. Further, they are based on the impact that they have on those who do get convicted--or even tried. What some posters fail to realize is that even when you're shown to be right--and you don't get convicted--in the American judicial system, it is still very costly. This is a tactic used on smaller businesses to push them out of business simply due to the legal costs. My concerns also lie in the fact that the more of these cases that they have that are successful--one way or another--the more they will undertake. A lot of these cases are likely test-runs to see what will fly with a jury and what won't. A lot of them are also likely put there as a means of intimidation to others and / or for the purpose of setting precedents--both on legal rulings and in terms of convictions. I disagree strongly with the idea that they (those who would like to see porn outlawed completely) will simply stop at some "good enough" line. They will keep going until they are stopped--either by the voters (less likely) or the courts (most likely). There strategy is methodical, and it is step-wise. It is also targeting a full elimination of adult materials. One needs to look only to more conservative districts here in the U.S.--where hardcore porn is essentially unavailable and where such people have full control (i.e., Utah)--to see the extent to which they will go, if given their druthers. Will there ever be this "full elimination"? Unlikely--on this we agree. There are opposing forces and pesky things like the First Amendment that keep them in check. That said, it doesn't make it any less of a mockery when an individual producer or director is convicted on bogus (IMO) obscenity charges, and it doesn't make it any less real for that individual--just b/c the industry, as a whole, will likely survive. Further, each and every one of these convictions has the distinct likelihood of further emboldening those who would outlaw / eliminate adult material altogether. When emboldened, they try to push the lines further in their favor -- then you get things like the Stagliano case. You get cases where it's not so much the "worst" any more, but it's a bigger, more-mainstream guy. We can argue the semantics of "conviction" vs. indictment, bank-breaking legal expenses, etc. all day long until the trial finally gets started and finishes. But, even in the case of an acquittal--which I truly pray for--serious damage will have been done by the fact that the trial occurred at all. (Granted, much could be gained by an acquittal, as well--but the financial / emotional damage on those involved will likely be substantial.) Keep in mind that I'm not so naive as to think that the adult industry will go away...but I am bright enough to recognize that these fights are all about establishing ground--and underestimating those on the other side and their strategies is a very poor idea. Edited by - fu_q on 12/30/2009 6:05:37 AM [Link] |
| Search Appliance Member 112 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:02AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:03AM Certainly there's been research that shows that those in Utah consume a lot of porn via cable and I'm sure the internet has rendered any local efforts effectively null and void at this point. I agree with the rest of your post though. [Link] |
| fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:13AM The porn that is available in Utah is through the internet and in the form of the standard magazines--i.e., Hustler, etc. These have always been available, but they seemed to have been grandfathered in--for now--once they went hard about 10 years(ish) ago. You can find NO legitimately sold hardcore DVDs, VHS tapes, etc. there. I checked in a couple of my favorite haunts back in October of this year. I lived in / visit the most liberal part of the state--SLC, not saying much--and I visited literally all of the adult-like establishments during my time there--spot-checks on the visits since. You can get softcore "cable" versions of movies in the stores. If you want hardcore DVDs, etc., you need to go east on I-80 about an hour to Vision Video in Evanston, WY...or you need to go west on I-80 about two hours to Wendover, NV. In southern Utah, your best bet is to go to Vegas. It's a sad situation, quite honestly. Even in light of Stanley v. Georgia, I was still a bit concerned at the time about having owned hardcore material there in my own home. [Link] |
| fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:23AM Until such time as a liberal enough Court is in place to throw the notion of "obscenity" out the window completely (if this ever happens), it is best not to actually let the Court make the decision as to what is and isn't "obscene". This current Court would likely outlaw "everything" if they chose to break from the Miller precedents. As un-Constitutionally vague as I feel the Miller tests are, removing them now--as opposed to under more favorable circumstances later--would likely bring about doom to the adult industry. That said, making the un-Constitutionally vague claim in any individual case that is currently ongoing would be a sound legal strategy for a lawyer in that given case. If Miller were found to be un-Constitutionally vague, then whatever case was being tried under it would likely be thrown out. Of course, this might not be good for the industry as a whole--at this juncture--but it would be a good move for an attorney trying to get his clients off on a specific charge. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:43AM In the same BBC 4 documentary I mentioned earlier there was a discussion about the Miller decision where one of the commentators said that the likely intention of Miller was to shut down the growing legal status of pornography. It was essentially intended as an invitation to local prosecutors to take down pornographers. But it backfired as the decisions in courts across the country went against the prosecutors again and again. I'm sure this time the likes of the Federalists have figured out exactly what they would like to have happen with the next big obscenity case, and it won't be pretty. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/30/2009 6:47:15 AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 8:21AM [Link] |
| mariahxxx Member 184 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 9:34AM That list you made of girls who shot for Max that aren't bottom of the barrel did so when they were brand new. They didn't establish careers and then go shoot for him. There isn't an agency around that would book A List stars for him. The agents now days just pressure their girls into being escorts instead of shooting for people like Max. My former agent sat at HER desk and went on and on about how escorting is killing the business and that she would NEVER send a new girl or a young girl to shoot anal or dp scenes because they aren't ready for it yet. She also lectured me on not doing interracial scenes no matter who they are with. A year later she is doing interracial scenes, she is one of the hardest working escorts out there and she sends young & new girls to do anal and dp scenes constantly. i.e. Missy Stone - does she do scenes without anal? The industry didn't police Max just as it doesn't police itself which it needs badly. But the fact that he had a very hard time being taken seriously among the larger companies made him crazy. He had said many times that he felt he was being shut out because of what he shot so I guess he got it a little lol [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 11:42AM If we're going to start running people out of porn, then let's start by getting rid of all these agents who are destroying it by perpetuating racism in the industry and placing arbitrary restrictions on which acts girls are and are not "ready for." If a girl says that she doesn't want to do anal/DP, then that's one thing. But having an agent to tell her she can't do it because she isn't "ready for it" sounds a little too control-freakish. In this sense, these agents are sounding more like pimps than professional representatives. Maybe this is why I think more girls should leave the agencies and just start representing themselves. That way, not only are they in full control over their own professional decisions (without an agent/pimp holding her hand and treating her like a child), but they also get to keep all the money they make. But I digress. [Link] |
| mariahxxx Member 184 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 1:57PM Very few of the agents these days would ever tell a girl she can't do any type of scene simply because they get paid for every scene they book for her. They all get $100 booking fee from the production company and then 10% from the girl. I was simply stating how my former agent claimed to be so ethical and to be watching out for the young girls in the business when she herself is a whore as well as sending them to do the hardcore scenes that will shorten their careers and reduce their scene rates in the long run. The new girls HAVE to have agents or the people just like Max will fuck them over every time. I had it happen to me by Justin Slayer when I returned back to the industry and I had an agent but was too intimidated on set to call him and I'm a crazy bitch! lol so imagine what some new girl trying to make an impression faces when shit like that happens. They just take it and get fucked over and then the issues begin. The agencies need to protect the girls more, rather than throw them to the wolves simply to get paid. The biggest agency also hires out their girls for escorting and encourages it to their talent. I say encourages simply to be polite but mandating it is much closer to the truth. To me that is fucked up. I know 90% of the girls do escort but what about the 10% of us that don't? Does that mean our agent won't work as hard for us? It has shown to be true. I don't have an agency now because I was tired of paying fees for jobs I got myself and having my agent compete with me for bookings. [Link] |
| Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 2:20PM [Link] |
| darmund Member 19 Posts 10/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 2:49PM Give me a fucking break with all of this "The sky is falling!!!! Our porn will be hte banned by the Supreme Court!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bullshit, because that's what it is, bullshit. One of the facts that didn't come out at Clarence Thomas's confirmation hearings is that he was/is a regular viewer of porn. He was a member of Royce's Video Club in DC, which pretty much rented nothing but porn. Unlike most vid rental places, all the mainstream films were in a small front room, and in the back was a gigantic floor of porn to be bought rented. Plus, there aren't any cases about porn on the Supreme Court's docket, nor are there any major cases involving porn besides manga comics being sold/available to kids making their way through the court system. [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 4:24PM I agree that there is no way to tell how the current Supreme Court would rule on the issue of obscenity. Indeed, it is now a more conservative Court. But every now and then, they have still proven to be able to do their jobs as justices of the Court without being pupperts for the party that appointed them. Let's not forget that it was this same conservative Court that struck down anti-sodomy laws. And yes, going by what we know of Clarence Thomas from past scandals, it's not far-fetched to believe that he would sympathetic to porn.Is it really true that performing IR/anal/DP will ruin a girl's career/rates? As an insider in the industry, you undoubtedly have more of an insight into these types of matters than I do. But I just find myself being rather skeptical of such statements. For one thing, most of the new young girls entering porn now don't stay for very long. Most of them are gone within a year, or a few months. They come onto the scene, do a few quick vanilla scenes, and then they're gone off into the wild unknown never to be seen again. I can think of atleast more than a dozen hot young girls right now who disappeared before we even got a chance to really enjoy watching them. Since this is the case that most new girls don't stay long anyway, doesn't it make more sense for them to earn more money by doing the more hardcore acts which pay higher rates instead of the standard vanilla rates? I can understand possibly holding off for more money if you plan on making a career of it, or hanging around for a while. But if you know the girls are going to be gone within the next few weeks anyway, then it just seems more sensible to let them make, say (and I'm making these figures up), $1,000 each for a few IR/anal scenes rather than $500 each for the same amount of standard vanilla scenes. Since most of the girls now aren't around long enough to get to the point of asking for higher rates, then why not just start getting those higher rates to begin with? Also, are there not several instances of girls being fucked over even if they have agents? In an industry like porn, which is fueled by the combination of money and the male sex drive, things like ethics are probably given more lip service than actual serious attention. When I think of enterprises known for their high value of ethics, the porn industry is not exactly the first that comes to mind. Your point of less-experienced talent benefiting from having an agent is definitely understandable though. By the way, what exactly happened to cause the incident you mentioned between you and Slayer, if you don't mind me asking?If we have to look forward to being left with only this type of porn, then the opposition has indeed already won. As far as I'm concerned, this is just as bad having no porn at all. [Link] |
| Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 4:53PM [Link] |
| mariahxxx Member 184 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 5:12PM Yes it does in certain situations. If a girl starts out doing anal and dp then her straight scene rate will get lower and she will be forced to always do anal to get paid a decent rate. There are excpetions like Shyla Stylez for example who's rate is high and she has always done ir and anal and dp. she is an exceptional performer and is hot and her scenes leave you little doubt she is down and dirty! :) how I like girls to be!! :) A girl can't get a decent agent if she lets it be known she is only willing to do a scene or 2 or be around for only a few months. Why would someone waste their time on that? Most girls bail out because of a jealous boyfriend or they did some scenes so they can feature dance or escort for more money. Some just can't handle it and others have family issues over it. there are a ton of reasons but the basic point is that very few get an agent and plan on being a flash in the pan. They think they're gonna be stars and get rich blah blah blah like all young girls willing to spread their legs. But then reality happens and they don't dig it like they hoped. Oh well. At least there is some evidence they were once here right? :) My friend and I were having a discussion on the Obama issue of the left being good for our business when he pointed out that it isn't true that liberals are good for the porn industry. I was surprised and asked why and he very wisely pointed out that porn needs some oppression to flourish. if it's too accepted and too mainstream then it will become blase and boring, and that's when the envelope pushing really begins. I was amazed at the incite to that and think it is very true. Our consumption of porn is much higher than the other countries who are very liberal about nudity and graphic sex in the media. Interesting point. The issue with Slayer: He hired me to shoot my first boy girl scene in 7 years by offering me $3500. I accepted and went to the set. When I got there I was the only girl with 7 or 8 black guys. I will make this point one time, I have been around black men my entire life and am in no way prejudice or think they are more scary than whites or any other race. HJ, Justin's partner, saw me and said my ass wasn't big enough. He called Justin and they said they would talk to me when Justin got there. I had my makeup done and had already shot the pretty girls (solo stills) before Justin got to the set. The entire time I had weed smoke blown in my face, I was asked repeatedly for blow jobs by his friends. I was flying back to Florida later that night so I was stressed over being done in time. So after all of this Justin gets to the set and says my ass isn't big enough and that my rate would have to be lower. I am freaked out and pressured to the point they wouldn't let me call my agent. they didn't hold me down they just kept stalling and saying they would see what they could do. We shot the scene and had more weed smoke blown in my face, and I don't smoke weed by the way, during the shoot, had someone doing something to my feet while shooting the sex with Justin. I left with a check for $2300 crying and really panicking. I couldn't have walked off the set because I had things already dependent on the money and was leaving. Looking back I would have left and told them all to go fuck themselves, however, it was my first time shooting a boy girl scene in 7 years and I was so nervous and fucked up from the weed that I didn't do what I should have done. I allowed myself to be pressured into something I would never let happen again in a million years. What's funny is that when I posted on this forum a few months ago that I had an issue with Slayer I got an email from HJ his partner saying he was sorry and didn't remember any issues, yet my agency went back and forth with Karen Stagliano at Evil Angel (Justin's distributor at the time) about this issue and they told her I was lying about the entire thing. HJ said he would send out the $1200 I felt was owed to me right away and asked that we get beyond the issue and put it behind us. I agreed he owed me $1200 and gave him my address. Well, needless to say he didn't send anything. So a week later I emailed asking where my check was and he asked if he could donate it to a charity in my name lmfao instead and I said no. He himmed and hawed and to this day I haven't heard from him again nor have I gotten a check for what those pieces of shit owe me. They made plenty of money of that scene. What fucking difference does it make what size my ass is if you fucking hired me for that rate? I am plenty curvy but they expected me to show up a fat ass I guess instead of a thin girl with an ass. They fucking suck and I wouldn't shoot for them for $20,000 and if you don't believe me offer it HJ and see if I accept. I don't need your fucking money these days. That's a factual account of what happened between myself and Slayer Productions in March of 2007. [Link] |
| lurflurf Member 115 Posts 10/03 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 5:52PM Edited by - lurflurf on 12/30/2009 5:54:56 PM [Link] |
| Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:15PM [Link] |
| mariahxxx Member 184 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:22PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 6:43PM So if Max shouldn't have been busted for obscenity and it's dangerous to support any use of the obscenity thing, what am I saying? That nothing should be done? No. Not at all. Not by a long shot. If there was any coordinated effort at all to give the girls some kind of protected forum to complain and to do something to hold abusive people accountable at the industry level, there would probably not be a Max to be prosecuted in the first place. If anyone wanted to, I'm sure there are things that could be done that would make it more difficult for a guy like Max to operate (Much less thrive). What I'd say to any industry people reading this thread is that if you make it one iota harder for another Max to develop anywhere in the porn business, you are doing something that will help to protect everyone. But don't do it by supporting obscenity prosecutions. That's just nuts. There has got to be a better way. It might be a lot harder (And more expensive) than sitting back and waiting for the feds to bust someone but it is better for everyone in the long run. I believe the industry could break a guy like Max by (for starters) setting up some sort of apparatus through which all new girls get a "porn education" so they go into the industry armed with information and knowledge about the problems they are likely to face and how to go about avoiding people who will try to abuse them and try to cheat them and so forth. Knowledge is always power. It's a universal truth and there is no reason porn should be any different. If you fail to help educate new porn girls about the pitfalls of the industry they are getting into, you will look like the bad guys when they invariably tell some interviewer that they were clueless. If you fail to make any efforts to prevent people from abusing the business to the extent that has been alleged against Max, you will look just as bad as he does. Decent agents and directors and studios could join hands and let it be known to the girls in no uncertain terms that they will absolutely not be blacklisted for complaining as long as they have reasonable complaints and they do it in a constructive way. Every honorable studio should make it clear to their customers that they do not support people who do not run their business in a clean and professional way. People who care about an industry should be more willing to get involved and not let the public believe this is what porn is about. Why would anyone in the porn business be OK with having the public confronted with the story of a girl from some backwoods town getting off of a bus and walking right into Max's waiting hands? The industry itself has not helped itself with titles like "Exploited Teens" on it's movies and plot lines that involve the appearance that the girl is completely clueless and is being tricked, made fun of and abused? What the hell is up with that? Why would anyone do that? Even if this is a completely fictional plot and the girls 100% know the score in reality, it's not a good way to allow yourself to be seen in a business like porn. You can be sure every critic of the porn industry will use that to it's fullest effect. The porn industry will never survive this kind of assault by the forces that are aligned against it with an "every man (And woman) for himself" mentality. Everyone in an industry like this one depends on everyone else even if it seems to be advantageous to your own profitability to just let your rivals go down in flames. If you don't do something about people like Max, you will be seen as being just as bad. If the industry allows itself to be seen as a monster that takes innocent young things and throws them to the wolves, nobody else can fix that. Least of all us customers who are out here trying to defend our right to view porn and a pornographer's right to make it. It bears repeating that it goes without saying that the most vocal and tireless critics of porn will say exactly the same things about it regardless of how the industry conducts itself. However, when they have titles like "Exploited College Girls" to point to, it automatically bolsters their case. This is not good. How are we supposed to defend porn when the industry itself churns out one move after another with titles like "Exploited Teens" "Teens For Cash" "I Want To Buttfuck Your Innocent Teen Daughter" and so forth? The people who are buying (And stealing) these titles will (mostly) not be there to defend you in any meaningful way when your reputation is so far in the toilet that there's nothing anyone can do to help you. They will jack off to "Your Daughter Is A Clueless Whore # 500" but they will not be in the courtroom with you when you get popped. You'll be on your own when some prosecutor plops you down in front of a jury and makes them watch that. They're fair-weather friends. Where are Max's customers right now as he sits there in his cell? Where is his money? Do not cater to this element in the customer base. They are not worth it. Something has to be done to make sure every porn performer knows what they're doing from day one. The industry needs to try to avoid hiring girls who are obviously addicted to hard drugs and to try and help the ones who are already in the business get off of them. You will never look like the good guy to the vast majority of people if you're fucking a girl who's out of her mind on meth and selling the footage for a few dollars. It honestly would not hurt to have some way of requiring every girl to show a current drug test before each scene just like the AIM thing. Weed might be OK if she doesn't seem stoned out of her mind on the scene but hard drugs are out. All of them. Next, you generally have to complete some kind of training to do almost anything else and most jobs won't screw you up for life if you make choices you later regret. It's not enough to just do a quick, informal interview and ask them if they know what they're getting into and to sign the papers. It's too easy for them to say "Yes" when they know you're not going to make any real effort to verify what they're telling you. Even if it's supposed to absolve you of any legal liability, you see where Max is right now. It's too easy for them to be so high they won't remember saying yes in 10 years. In ten years, they'll be on some talk show telling a global audience of TV zombies they don't remember anything and you just might still be trying to make a living in adult entertainment. A lot of these girls seem to start in search of a quick paycheck. Every employer I've ever had did a quick interview with basic questions and I just told most of them what I thought they wanted to hear because I needed a paycheck. A typical employer (Wal-Mart, etc) can generally afford to hire just about anyone who will show up and punch a clock. When you're shooting a load of jizz on an 18 year old girl's face and distributing the video and photographs on the internet, it is in your best interest to make sure that girl can never say she was naive, drunk or on drugs or whatever. It's in your best interest to make sure others in the industry are not mistreating these girls in any way. A group effort made in good conscience will probably root out unsavory characters every time. A lot of trouble can be averted by taking basic precautions. You don't have to actively censor people like Max and you don't have to support obscenity charges against them. This is the wrong mentality and no good can come of it. Just make it harder for them to do business in your industry and make sure every girl who goes near a porn set knows who these people are, what they're about and that they don't have to work with them. You do not have to allow the critics of adult entertainment to go unchallenged when they paint you and your industry as a bunch of predatory vultures who make no efforts to address these concerns. To a large extent, people can only successfully vilify you if they seem to be right. The cheapest cheap lawyer will tell his client this. "If you look guilty, you are". This is not a business where you can afford to even have the illusion of gross exploitation and widespread abuse. It's sex. People get stupid about sex. It can be complete fantasy and you're still shooting your own feet if you paint a creepy portrait of yourself and your industry for them to show to a jury (or simply to the court of public opinion). "This guy's a creep". That's all they have to say. The Max verdict proves it. But don't just put up a pretty picture of yourself if you don't live it. Make an effort to at least try to have some principles. It's not impossible. Porn doesn't have to be the atrocious meat grinder it's tireless critics say it is. It doesn't have to have an image that's hard to defend. Max is not single-handedly responsible for this backlash. It took a lot of people abandoning all common sense and making their own movies where men could be seen beating their female costars, choking them, slinging them across the room and on and on. Max is what he is but he didn't force anyone else to make any of this other stuff. Maybe it would have helped a lot if others in the industry didn't try to compete with him by copying him? Edited by - randomprecision on 12/30/2009 6:54:02 PM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 7:17PM You're also assuming a level of rational thought that Thomas has never displayed. Since he consistently denies any right to privacy for individuals there would be nothing protecting people watching porn in their own homes. After all this was the same guy who was the sole judge to rule that a strip-search of a teen girl by her high school teachers looking for aspirin was legal. As for your second point, no one said that a pornography case was likely to come in front of this court anytime soon. And there is still too much of a liberal presence on the court to guarantee the result that Roberts and co would like so I doubt he has any interest in taking one on currently. But with the court the game is always long term, and that doesn't look good for porn. @ realtip, the anti-sodomy ruling was over the dead bodies of the Scalia and Thomas (Roberts wasn't on the court). The vote split right on the liberal/right-wing axis. That vote was because the balance of power lay with Sandra Day O'Connor, who has sadly left the court. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/30/2009 7:34:19 PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 8:07PM [Link] |
| StormyAlektraKroseblkfan Member 22 Posts 11/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 8:16PM [Link] |
| Mastrick Member 220 Posts 5/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 8:17PM [Link] |
| StormyAlektraKroseblkfan Member 22 Posts 11/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2009 : 8:19PM [Link] |
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