I don't really know if this is in the right section... As a mental health professional and with all of these recent deaths in the porn industry I was curious to know if there are any mental health services provided to those in the industry. The comparisons to other billion dollar industries are relatively easy to make (sports, Hollywood). Obviously in all walks of life ppl struggle with mental illness, but I often don't see action until after the fact or something horrible happens. I'm not trying to come down on the porn industry, but it would be nice to know that someone was doing something. I don't know how many of these performers are provided insurance and that's one major issue with getting mental health treatment. I do know that it is good business to take care of your employees and someone with intimate knowledge of how this industry works could really benefit from investing in mental health professionals to work with ppl in the industry. It's not like ppl are in the mental health field for the money unless you're working with the Patrick Batemans of the world. A good example is google. They take care of their employees, so it makes it all the easier to find the best in the tech industry to work for them. I would imagine this has played a large part in their success. I know that's comparing apples to oranges, but I don't really know much about the inside of the porn industry. Hopefully someone with better knowledge could shed some light on this and maybe these recent unfortunate events could be turned into something positive.
Performers aren't exactly employees of any one company, usually, so no company is going to be willing to pay for any insurance or mental heath services for them. They generally have to buy insurance on their own, and pay for any services on their own.
[Link]
stoneblade Deactivated User
450 Posts 7/16
Posted - Dec 29 2017 : 3:31AM
From my very brief time trying to break into the industry as male talent I can say this; You're treated like dirt until you're 'someone' in porn. When you finally become someone, they tell you you're too old, and cannot pay what you're actually worth or you're conveniently contractually bound. When you're new, you're expected to overlook many 'slights' in the industry, like heavy drug use, doing sex acts mid-scene which was not discussed or agreed prior, talents 'mistakenly misplacing' their tests, but the director swears his seen it...etc To summarize it's a toxic industry that really fucks with your mind, and to top it all off; while your fans might adore you, meeting normal people in a social capacity when they find out you're a sex worker, you're treated with a stigma which isolates you from being a normal person.
I'd imagine that only contract stars have any likelihood of having their medical insurance covered by the studio. Several actresses and actors have highlighted that they've had to foot the bill out of their own pocket and/or through donations to help them deal with time off due to injury or illness. I can't think why it would we different for mental health services.
That's unfortunate. It kind of backed up some of my assumptions, which I was hoping were wrong. Society is indeed a bitch which is part of the problem with a lot of mental health issues that arise. I guess the hope would be that someone powerful enough in the industry took it upon themselves to make it a bigger issue, but that usually doesn't occur until a legal issue arises.
^ I hear what you're saying but that to me is more like treating the symptoms of a problem rather than addressing the root cause. Changing society's attitude toward sex workers would achieve a lot more in my view. Lots of people make use of sex workers' labour but they think of them as something they stepped in rather than a person. There are ridiculous stereotypes of sex workers, especially porn actresses, being swarms of pestilence despite the due diligence of sexual health certificates and the industry shutdown when somebody has a positive test for something serious yet few condemn those in the mainstream who don't use condoms then catch and spread some STD except in cases where it was proven to be deliberate. You've also got that nonsense notion that sex workers "need the money" - most people need the money but sex workers have just taken an alternative career path. I doubt many of them are desperate. Sex workers pay their taxes, contribute to the economy though they are all too often derided as the worst members of society yet you have celebrities and corporate executives avoiding (if not evading) their taxes or politicians screwing the working class yet they claim the moral high ground over the former.
Changing society isn't exactly curable. Treating mental health is. You can't blame nasty ppl for someone committing suicide, but I guarantee there was a preexisting condition before that whether it was diagnosed or not. Fans/society in general can exacerbate difficulties ppl are having, but you can't fix or change other ppl, you can only work on yourself. Drug and alcohol abuse is also a comorbid disorder meaning another mental health issue is in existence with it as well. Most often the substance abuse problem is treated first and then the mental health issue after or during. Like I said it would be a relatively inexpensive investment for someone who has the money if they took the time to give a shit. I get the business side of it too that it's not exactly good for bottom dollar, but America is all about $ over humanity.
sure you can. I do it all the time. We all should. Maybe then, people would start at least TRY to be decent human beings and treating each other with a modicum of respect
[Link]
stoneblade Deactivated User
450 Posts 7/16
Posted - Dec 30 2017 : 6:30AM
I like your focus on tax. I try as much as possible to evade it, lol.
Mental health issues in every industry from Porn to Sport is big headlines at the moment. two of my Favourite stars Megan Rain and Rachel Madori come out withe some crazy shit of late on Twitter. Hope they both keep safe with people close to them.
[Link]
stoneblade Deactivated User
450 Posts 7/16
Posted - Dec 30 2017 : 6:47AM
I completely agree, if we held people responsible for being assholes, we might be left with an asshole-free world...just my 2 cents
If you took a cold shower for your hard-on, you may understand that my focus on tax is a reference to paying your taxes often being looked upon as a measure of one paying their fair share to society. Edited by - AngryPirate on 12/30/2017 9:31:50 AM
I think you're missing the point. Society is part of the problem sure, but as a professional I can't help society, but I could treat an individual. I think ppl need to be held accountable for saying or doing terrible shit to others because why be that way other than misery loves company. I can't really change society other than contributing in a positive way or doing the best I can and treating others in a respectable way. I can have a much larger impact working with an individual through therapy. You can't do therapy for a whole society even though we probably need it. Everyone could use therapy, but it's stigmatized. I was really hoping ppl could give some insight on how things work in this industry and maybe someone in the industry would give a shit about who's working for them and making them money. It would take more time and money to police everyone making unwanted comments than to just treat the individual who actually needs the support.
^ My comment wasn't in reference to all your questions in this thread, but just to the one statement I highlighted. It seems to me that when someone who's bullied and threatened on social media takes their own life, it's often just passed off as 'they had a mental illness'. So we can't blame anyone else, and nothing in society needs to be assessed or changed. Note, you might want to have a look at this thread on the recent passing of a porn actress. https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/august-ames-passes-away/1 Edited by - Simple Simon on 12/31/2017 2:08:50 AM
Here's a real life example. I need to advise that this is a very sad story. If you think it might seriously affect you, it might be best not to read it. https://www.mamamia.com.au/stuart-kellys-bullies/
I understand that ppl should be better to each other, but it's just not realistic to expect ppl who can hide behind a computer to be nice to each other all the time. Stopping cyber bullying isn't going to cure mental health. Something else will always happen to cause someone to become depressed, life is stressful. Do we need other ppl making it worse? No, but as I said treating an individual is realistic, policing the internet is not. Prohibition didn't cure alcoholism and stopping cyber bullying wouldn't cure mental illness. I realize they're two completely different things, but you can't stop cyber bullying and expect ppl with depression or whatever issue they're dealing with to go away.
[Link]
stoneblade Deactivated User
450 Posts 7/16
Posted - Dec 31 2017 : 12:53PM
Did anyone watch Jay and Silent Bob Strike back? In the final scene of the movie they go and find each of the people who trashed them online and beat them up. I would love to do that to Augusts's killers.
[Link]
stoneblade Deactivated User
450 Posts 7/16
Posted - Dec 31 2017 : 12:57PM
Prohibition failed because too many assholes didn't bother to follow the law.
Well you just managed to single-handedly shoot down your argument by showing its flaws. Nobody is saying that to ending cyber bullying and trolls will stop mental illness. I doubt anyone is that naive. Reducing triggers can certainly help. If you think I don't know jack shit about depression or think that there's an easy treatment for it, you are gravely mistaken.
[Link]
stoneblade Deactivated User
450 Posts 7/16
Posted - Jan 1 2018 : 5:56AM
I really think the fans should start to support groups like Trenchcoatx, which try to make porn a better lifestyle for it's performers. Well at least their mission statement makes it seem like that's what they're doing. It's a real shame what had happened to Stoya, she ended her porn career because of it, and everyone has already forgotten and the porn industry now turns a blind eye....
I agree that cyber bullying is a horrible thing and in some cases it's the trigger that can push someone with mental problems to perhaps want to end their life. But the important thing above all is for the person with the illness to get help. The proper help can go along way to helping an individual deal with cyber bullying or anything else life might throw at them. Honestly, cyber bullying is bad but there are a lot more bad things in life a person has to deal with that could just as easily trigger a person with mental health issues to want to commit suicide. The death of a loved one, a break up with a loved one, being in an accident and getting hurt or scarred, losing a job, etc., etc....To many people most of those things are far more painful than cyber bullying and can easily be triggers for someone with mental issues. So the important thing is to treat the individual because life is full of triggers that may cause them to want to take their life and society can't make life trigger proof for those people.
^ I'm not saying you shouldn't treat those with mental illness. I just don't agree with the defeatist attitude that there's no point tackling the dickheads who think they can bully people without consequence.
I agree that bullying is a bad thing and needs to be dealt with. However...with cyber bullying I think we all need to be very specific and agree as to what exactly is considered cyber bullying. Is saying something hurtful cyber bullying? Is always being a jerk online to someone cyber bullying? Not talking about what was said to August specifically but more in general. You can call someone online a "dumbshit" or tell them to get their head out of their ass and some people will simply blow it off and move on and others will be truly hurt by it. How do you govern that? When is it crossing the line? Will everyone agree on when it's gone to far? When does it become the person on the receiving end to simply shut off the feed or block those people? In my mind there's no simple answer if you want to protect people who may be easily upset.
It would work out if the person being bullied removed themselves from the social media sites where the bullies are, once it becomes scary.
[Link]
Arnold The Geek Deactivated User
251 Posts 7/17
Posted - Jan 2 2018 : 8:53AM
Who were her killers, I thought she committed suicide? Do you also blame auto manufacturers for car crashes, alcohol companies for drunken behavior, etc etc etc? Edited by - Arnold The Geek on 1/2/2018 8:58:54 AM
^ While it's indisputable that August took her own life, your rationale isn't exactly bullet proof. One could counter stating that numerous car manufacturers have made faulty cars whose defects were directly responsible for crashes or deaths/injuries caused by the crash, be it design flaws or negligence from the manufacturer or problems with parts from third-party suppliers...
[Link]
Arnold The Geek Deactivated User
251 Posts 7/17
Posted - Jan 5 2018 : 11:45AM
Thanks for the 40-50 year old examples Ralph Nader. Kind of completely irrelevant at this point, don't you think?
I mostly wanted to know what, if anything was being done for ppl in the industry as far as mental health. Instead this has turned into a bullying debate pointing out flaws in arguments.
^ AIM used to provide resources to help performers understand what they're getting into and to help them with these aspects of the job. People tend to focus on the testing AIM provided and so the new testing locations seem to have filled that need, but AIM was always so much more than just testing. IEAU claims to provide some stuff that might help with mental health related things, but they are also plagued with drama. From what I have read, the industry has always relied on other industry members--mentors. So, the Annie Sprinkles and Nina Hartleys of the world performed the role of guidance counselor and doctor (and later, Sharon Mitchell with AIM). Club 90 is the most official I have seen of this sort of thing. They set the precedent. I assume other groups still exist, whether formally recognized by its participants or not. As a side note, when I interviewed Ashley Blue I asked her if she thought providing information/guidance/support for newbies was a good idea (so newbies might avoid some of the horrendous stuff she went through) and she said no because even if that guidance had been provided, she would have ignored it.
And I also found this show about the advocacy work Leo Donato does to, as the show says, build "a bridge between sex workers and mental health professionals."
The Adult Performer Advocacy Committee (APAC) has an APAC Stamp program, which provides referrals to industry friendly mental health professionals, physicians, accountants, attorneys, etc. Also, AVN Hall of Famer Melissa Hill runs the Adult Industry Support Group (AISG). It's open to current and past performers, as well as anyone else who has worked on set in the industry. They meet weekly to discuss issues.
It's good to know something is in place. Unfortunately a lot of mental health related facilities continue to be shut down, so I guess it's going to become more important to rely on each other even though that's not a reasonable solution. It would be interesting to know what industry actually has the best access to mental health, although I'm not going to research because it would most likely be investment bankers and government officials.
Great topic to raise Matt. I am saddened every time I see another porn star die because of inability to cope with the mental health issues that he with turf. Social media have made porn performers more exposed than ever to haters and abusers. People seem willing to say things they would never write in a letter, and without consideration of what impact they might have. The recent death of August Ames is probably an example of how triggers can come from social media. Would APAC or AISG have been able to help her? Perhaps some other advance intervention is needed like a buddy system. Just today I watched Nia Nacci in her latest release, a seven guy blowbang. Just last Summer Nia was still in high school. She still lived with her parents until very recently. She tried out on FTV Girls in September and when I saw her on their site I thought that she was exceptional and could be a big star. I have followed her since and she has been measured, no anal and just one mmf threesome.When I heard about the blow bang I thought it out of.line with her trajectory. At just 18, that is quite a nice towards rougher fetish type sex. Not that the scene itself was very rough, it was not. But she ended kneeling on the floor masturbating while seven white men unloaded a cum shot each onto her face until she was completely basted in semen. They encouraged her to masturbate to orgasm while kneeling there and she did. In that moment, for a second, she looked overwhelmed and about to break down in tears. She gathered herself and smiled through. I wonder was she overwhelmed because the thought flashed through her mind that if she became a mainstream porn success her fame would bleed out into the mainstream world and her local community in the small town in Oklahoma where she is from. How will get fame affect her family and friends and their relationships.with her? How will he parents cope if they are shunned or ridiculed. What of her relationship with her siblings and parents? Did she really think all if this through in advance? I reach back to think how I might have coped at that tender age, equipped with so.little life experience or wisdom. I would like to see Nia get counselling support as well as every other porn starlet. After all, these issues are very common. But they do affect some people more than others. Porn has been part of my life as have the women and men who starred in it. There have been too many sad stories, but these are rendered more useful if we all learn from them. For me, I have the greatest respect for porn stars but so often they are looks down upon and treated as contemptible or perverted in mainstream society. When and not if this happens, it would be good to know there was a manual and buddy system to help them cope. Thanks again for the topic..
^^ Good points. I'd also like to see some effort made toward reducing society's negative views on porn. Not sure how best to go about that, though, maybe a network reality show with all pornstars as the contestants, anything to get porn in the public's eye in a positive light. I think this would also help performers who are troubled and feeling bad about their jobs. I don't think anyone should be ashamed for participating in or watching porn. Sex is one of the most natural and instinctual things we humans do. Edited by - limbodan on 1/5/2018 7:35:12 PM
I think it's really hypocritical how our society still shames people for liking porn or acting in it, given that most people nowadays, thanks to the internet, have at least glanced at porn. (And, yes, I've been shamed for enjoying porn. A LOT.)
This would need to be accompanied with some kind of basic training for the mentor, however experienced. Would be interesting to know what the thread originator thinks about this...
I think it's a good idea, but as nice as that is they're not trained mental health professionals. We have to do trainings to keep our licenses up to date, let alone all the schooling completed. AA is a good program because they can relate to each other, so I definitely think it would be good to have the sponsor type thing going on.
Wouldn't it also be good for someone professional to specialise in this field in areas where the industry is concentrated? Then that specialsist or group coulf assist those people acting as mentors with occasional seminars and training programme. What happened to August Ames is just the latest example of what can happen to vulnerable performers.
There are no trainings for working with pornstars. It's not really a specialty, you could make it one if someone in the industry were to help you get your foot in the door to start helping ppl. Otherwise the closest trainings would be on sexuality and human trafficking. I don't think you would need an immense knowledge of the industry. We help ppl in all times of situations/professions. Really it's looking past what they may tell you and building rapport, then treat them with empathy. I don't think a pornstar could tell me something worse than things I've already heard from other clients.
Something needs to be done. In recent weeks we have seen the passing of Olivia Nova, Yurizan Beltran (Yuri Luv), August Ames, Shyla Stylez and Roxy Nicole. And in the past couple of years we witnessed the short times that stars such as Alina Li and Jessie Rogers were in the business, before they walked away in disgust. Either drugs or depression are endemic in the business. In this time of #metoo surely the porn industry isn't immune from change.
Unfortunately, the porn profession is not a common "Workplace environment". Meaning no healthcare, vacation,personal leave,401K,etc. etc.I see it almost as a subcontractor. I myself selfishly watch porn for my own entertainment. I would never wish anything bad on anyone and have empathy for people. However, I continue to buy and watch porn. Maybe I am part of the problem?
As I understand (please correct me if I am wrong), porn performers are excluded from mainstream actors unions. Society being "mean" to porn has some very real, institutional ramifications. I don't know about SAG, but ASCAP and similar offer a wealth of resources for their self-employed musicians, including all manner of advice and service discounts, including for insurance and other products. It seems unfair for porn to be excluded from existing resources. It's like ASCAP welcoming all musicians, expect for those from 1-2 specific genres. Edited by - zingerbrook on 1/10/2018 4:26:14 PM
Petite Hottie Has A Tight Grip - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Dec 29 2017 : 2:17AM
