I just tried to send a dick pic to a content creator, and she told me that as of October 1, OF blocks images and videos sent by users who haven't tipped/spent at least $10 in the last 15 days. Pretty soon they'll be locking people out who don't spend money.
nah i don't think that's a legit rule. That creator (or I would suspect her agency) is just trying to get you to spend money.
On the other hand, I think we can see a trend of women returning to studio porn or other means as OF revenue simply isn't sustainable. Ivy Lebelle for example, Remy Lacroix for another example.
The other way some of these pornstars make a quick buck is through OF livestreams. Like a recent pornstar (won't name names) did a BG livestream where the goal was $1500 and she matched that and went beyond to like $2000 for a 30 minute stream.
Also I constantly see some of these pornstars who moved to OF only opening up and advertising new venues (like sextpanther, selling panties, fleshlight, Throne wishlist, other sites like APClips, LoyalFans) which I have to assume is because OF alone isn't meeting their goals.
Ideally, a future for porn should be what Ivy Lebelle did with her recent showcase, where it was shot by Ricky Johnson for his site, but Ivy sold it on her OF while those who want to watch it in a better quality and download easily, can join Ricky Johnson's site, RickysRoom.
This is not entirely on topic, but it doesn't fit anywhere else either. It's a question about OF earnings contrasted with mainstream porn, as well as a couple of other things.
In another thread here, on influencers we'd like to see in porn, I mentioned a couple of young women who have YouTube channels. I've since discovered others. These young women are all beautiful and athletic, and the videos they post are them in tight fitting clothes or bikinis doing fun stuff. The camerawork is obviously trying successfully to capture these women's best physical attributes. These women cross-appear on each other's YT channels.
Three of the models I'm thinking of specifically are:
I don't think I can post photos of them here, but if you follow the YT links, I think you'll agree that these women have "it" and could easily do porn.
In that other thread, someone posted specifically about Bailey that she has an OF channel. I guess I wasn't too surprised to read that she might do some softcore nudes to earn more income. That makes sense, right? But I was surprised to learn that she does hardcore too. Zoiks! Not only that, but she does anal.
I joined her OF channel. I've been a member at a couple of other OF channels so I knew that this wasn't a porn site where I could download photos and videos. But for a low price I could at least see her naked, which is great because after watching her YT videos for months, I have been undressing her mentally anyway.
I've never done this before with any OF site, but I spent more than a typical monthly porn membership on one video. As a fan of anal scenes, I specifically selected one with that. It wouldn't be very good though, since she's really an amateur, right? Her average-sized BF would put the tip in and that was all it was. Except that it wasn't. Bailey took a large cock balls deep in her ass for a hard anal fucking. She also has amazing deepthroating skills. A young woman doesn't learn these skills by reading about them, so that says that she's got some serious sexual experience.
In doing a bit more digging, I then wasn't surprised to see that Kai and Katie also have OF channels. They are pretty much the same as Bailey, where there are nudes and the ability to buy videos. And these ladies do hardcore too. There is a video of Katie getting ass-fucked on the balcony of a cruise ship.
I haven't signed up to Kai's channel yet, but I suspect I'll be spending some money there too.
All that to get to these questions:
Any one of these women could have a successful career in porn. They have the looks, they seem to have the business acumen and in the limited scenes I've seen, they have the sexual talent too. Man, do they have the sexual talent!
Are earnings from YT and OF so much better than doing mainstream porn that this is a better choice financially? And yes, I know an obvious answer to this question is to point out that I've spent money joining and buying, so others are doing this too. That's a fair comment.
Wouldn't doing mainstream porn widen their audience that would then drive more business to their OF channels?
This will invite speculation (which is what I'm looking for) but how does a young woman come to say to herself that she'll create a softcore channel on YT with skimpy clothes and lots of skin and augment that with an OF channel where not only will she get naked, but she'll do just about every sexual act imaginable? B/G, G/G, threesomes, anal, etc.
Then, how is it that three or four of these young women came up with the same idea at the same time and decide to join forces? They cross-appear on each other's YT and OF channels. They have zany fun on YT and have G/G sex and threesomes on their OF channels. Bailey seems to have a particular fondness for licking creampies from her friend's pussies.
Is there an agency behind this type of material? It seems far too organized to be something that just popped up. If it did just pop up, then the young women involved should be granted honourary MBAs for their business skills.
Any thoughts?
[As an aside, if anyone answers this thread I won't be able to respond for a few days as I'll mostly be unable to reply until Sunday, but I'll be able to read any thoughts, and I'll appreciate them too.]
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Oct 2 2024 : 12:21PM
^If they did mainstream, they would have to shoot porn that a company would sell forever and ever without giving them another dime after shoot day. To even make it to the set, they would have to give some guy who is friends with directors, and probably a creep, 10-20% of what they get for making the video. Making stuff on their own, they get to choose who has sex with them, but a porn company not only would not give them that option but they would probably hire someone that another performer has accused of assault. When they get to set, there's some non-zero chance that the director will try to make them do extra stuff they didn't agree to, like shooting content with an additional guy who happens to be around the set, probably not for additional pay. Just typical mainstream porn industry nonsense they can avoid entirely.
Also, they can get pretty wide fanbases just from being hot on the SFW platforms. And when they get tired of people seeing them naked online, their porn will have been mostly contained to Onlyfans, where it can be disappeared forever once onlyfans is gone, if they can't get the content taken down from the site before then.
I think for the women who are most talented at business and marketing and most physically blessed, the mainstream industry doesn't make much sense in the current day. Especially when virtually all pornstars still have to do "content creator" jobs anyway, despite being in porn. You'll see a performer lamenting on Twitter every now and then that she got in the industry/SW to fuck, not to make tiktoks. If they have to do tiktoks and whatnot, may as well have their own platform they control, if they have the capacity to build one.
As to how they think "how can I monetize being hot?" that's the oldest job ever. In modern day, they have tons of examples of people synonymizing their Instagram names with their OF names. And really, pretty much every female realizes that people would give them money and valuables for certain kinds of favors long before they are old enough to open a porn performer account. It's not an idea they have to invent, really.
Apologies if this info has already been posted, but I just came across an interesting article written by someone named Matthew Ball[/url], who seems to be a professional investor. The info in the article apparently comes from regulatory filing by Fenix International which owns OF, so it's probably quite reliable.
https://www.matthewball.co/all/ofpl
Two charts caught my eyes.
The rise of OF revenue from 2019 to 2020 was nothing short of meteoric. The increase from 2020-2021 was huge, but already much slower than before. After that, it's still growing, but the growth rate has clearly slowed by dramatically.
The chance of making a living from OF is very bad and getting worse. At peak in 2021, revenue per account was only $2,500 per year on average. By 2023 it has fallen to just $1,700.
To put this in perspective, based on an academic article I read, back in 2015 or so a studio porn scene paid women on average about $800-$1,000 per scene. Assuming this has not increased, then doing 10 scenes a year would be the equivalent of making about 5 times the average OF income. Doing 20 scenes a year would be 10 times the average OF income.
Edited by - blackdragontea on 10/3/2024 2:19:27 PM
Some more (hypothetical) reflection about the numbers I cited above.
Suppose a woman manages to do just 5 studio scenes a year (that's not a very successful porn career). Assume each scenes pays $900 (based on the $800-1000 figure I cited in the previous post), that's $4,500 per year. What would be the equivalent of that in OF income?
As of 2023, as I showed earlier, the average OF account makes $1,700. $4,500 is about 2.5 times of that. Let's assume the OF income distribution is similar to the US income distribution. Per capita income in US is about $80k. 2.5 times of that is $200k. The following data comes from this article.
An income of $200k would put a person somewhere between the top 10% to top 5% of all people. In other words, based on the assumptions I made ($900 per studio scene, OF has income distribution similar to US income distribution), by doing just 5 scenes a year, a woman would make more money than around 92-93% of everyone on Onlyfans.
If she does 10 studio scenes a year, that would be $9,000 per year, which is about 5 times the average OF income. Translating to US income, that's the equivalent of $400k. That means 10 scenes = more income than 96-97% of people on OF.
If she does 20 studio scenes a year (a very successful porn career), that's $18k, which is about 10 times the average OF. This is equivalent to $800k in US income, which means she makes more money than 99% of people on OF.
p.s. I just read the original article by Matthew Ball more carefully, and it seems the income distribution on OF may be far more unequal than the US income distribution. He suggests top 1% may get as much as 100 times more than the top 10% (compare to a mere 5 times in US income distribution). But conflicting reports exist, so it's pretty uncertain.
Edited by - blackdragontea on 10/3/2024 5:26:24 PM
^ Interesting information. Thanks for sharing it. I suspect "average" earnings wouldn't give an accurate look at what most OF models earn. Median might be more accurate. But then again, with that many OF content creators, maybe "average" does give a reasonable picture. The bottom line appears to be that it's possible to earn a VERY good living off OF, but not many can pull that off. Then again, the women I mentioned in my post have YT earnings as well.
All good points. I suspect that "ownership" of the content is a big thing. With just OF stuff, it's easier to disappear. Admittedly, these scenes could still pop up on Tube sites, but when they do a cease-and-desist letter should suffice to get them pulled.
I still wonder how it came to be that this small group of models got together and shoot content for their own OF accounts and appear on the accounts of the two other women too. It seems to be too much of a coincidence for an agent to have not set this up.
Still, I'm hoping someday to see some mainstream porn from any or all of these models. As I said, they are beautiful and sexually talented.
Yeah median will certainly be more representative, as the distribution of income on OF is highly unequal. Given how top heavy it is -- if you read the Matthew Ball article, it seems to be at least as unequal as overall US income distribution, potentially far more -- the median is going to be much lower than average.
So sure it is possible to make a good living, it's just staggeringly unlikely.
As for why those specific women you mentioned don't do mainstream porn to drive traffic to their OF, I think the answer is right there in your own story: they found a better way, namely youtube. I'm sure they have other big social media accounts (instagram, tiktok, etc.) to do the same thing. If they can be successful with these tools, and they don't happen to live close to southern California, there's no reason for them go there to shoot mainstream porn.
Your line of argument doesn't make much sense, I'm sorry to say. Do you believe any random girl with a wildly unsuccessful OF account could just waltz into studio porn instead and get those 10 or 20 scenes (and each year, even, not just once)? Let's face it, any girl attractive enough - and willing to actually do hardcore, which is far from everybody on OF - to get a foot into the doors of mainstream porn is all but certain to also be near the very top of those 4m+ OF creators if she actually tries. I hate to put a number on it, but I'll probably get called out if I don't, so I'd say at least top 10%.
Why? Because that creator count is almost definitely just as inflated as the user totals. The vast majority will be accounts with next to no content output; the number of those actually treating it as a serious occupation (with commensurate time investment) will be tiny in comparison, so those who do are automatically near the top of that "4 million creators" heap. Earnings averages - whether mean or median - that are pulled down by all those non-serious creators are completely useless in assessing if OF is a good deal for those who are actually trying to make a living on it. (If you wanted to calculate what the "average basketball player" earns, you wouldn't include any random shlub that shoots some hoops with his buddies every other weekend, either.) And that tiny minority of serious creators are also the only people on OF for whom the "could mainstream porn be an alternative?" question is even relevant to ask.
The big difference is/was that mainstream porn allows performers to "just shoot", while doing OF/MV/personal sites/etc. requires personal hustle to drum up an audience. There will be people more suited for one or the other. But even that difference is vanishing, what with OF creators increasingly having management for all kinds of aspects of their "independent" careers.
Edited by - shalalin on 10/5/2024 5:43:17 PM
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Oct 5 2024 : 8:20PM
I don't know that they have to have an agent. It's nothing for women with similar follower numbers who live near enough each other to get together. We'll see more and more performers and OF girls owning content houses over time too. I'll have to dig up who it was, maybe she was on Holly Randall's podcast, I can't remember, but I listened to some interview with the OF performer with the most likes on the platform either last year or the year before. I think one of the points they made is she had done little if any company porn. These women are getting industrious for themselves.
This era of smarter and less victimized performers would cool as hell, and I would be 100% happy for them instead of like 85% happy, if they were all actually selling content instead of charging people money to *temporarily* have access to the videos.
"In the future, you will own nothing, and you will be happy" is the name of these individual platforms (for most of the creators) and I consider it very close to stealing. What do you mean I can't download a video I just paid $25 for? It should have been $2.99 then.
Onlyfans seems to be the most popular platform for content creators, but some girls also use platforms like Fansly, Patreon, and Fanplace, and a few only use one of those and do not use Onlyfans. I'm not sure why, since they are limiting their exposure and making it harder to find their content. I do notice that a few content creators from Russia don't use Onlyfans, and I wonder whether that has something to do with credit card processing and sanctions against Russia.
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Jeepee31 Deactivated User
57 Posts 10/23
Posted - Dec 15 2024 : 5:31PM
Yes, i have friends that are creators in Russia. Many things was banned. Not clear. But There was problems with Instagram, Paypal, Onlyfans and most of things that small creators can use. So they have to work in studios. Sometime studios are pk. But often they take a huge part of income. And impose to girls (and boys) how to work. (as they want). It's sad.
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Jeepee31 Deactivated User
57 Posts 10/23
Posted - Dec 15 2024 : 5:35PM
Yesterday, a girl TrashyBagQueen, ask me 200$ for 1 min of anal. I refuse it. It's like getting paid 12000$ per hour. And more then that because they sell the video many ,many time. It's complately crazy. Another girl on Fanvue to the same. Fanvue same shit. And now they use A.I. to boost picture and videos. When we get video or picture we pay for. They don't look what they send in preview. What a scam.
Thanks for this post. I checked out Bailey's youtube channel - great content and great eye candy. I also just joined her OF: https://onlyfans.com/bigbootybaileyvip For those new to Bailey Brooks, she's having a special for $3.89 for 31 days. She also has a free OF.
Rearadmiral - I'm interested in checking out her hardcore content available for purchase. Are there particular scenes you'd recommend? As listed by ID number on her OF, I see the following anal scenes: 124 (on a boat), 110 (volleyball uniform), 88 (anal creampie by teacher), and 145 (2 cumshots - facial & creampie). Many thanks and Happy New Year!
Julius and CummingLinguist, apologies as I'm only seeing this now. I would have replied earlier but I don't read this thread regularly.
Bailey's OF page is locked down tight. You can't save pictures and all the pictures that show any hardcore action are pixilated. Everything directs you to buy more. Having said that, the mere ability to see Bailey naked was a delight. Bailey is part of a group who appear in each others YouTube videos, and many of those models have OF pages too. I subscribed to a couple of those as well and they are locked down as well.
I was hoping for more, but it is what it is...
Julius, I can't really give any advice on what videos you should think about buying as it's subjective. Given the price, I only bought a couple and I wanted to see Bailey doing anal, so that's what I bought. I'm definitely happy with them. If you are interested in anal, I can tell you that Bailey is an anal queen. In the scenes I have, she takes a huge cock balls deep in her ass and gets pounded.
Bailey and many of her friends could easily go mainstream and be very successful, so it must be that the way she and the others have structured their careers suits them best. It gives them more control and must still be financially lucrative.
Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
Not a fan of OF myself but i have never used it i just don't like the look of it and pov i also don't like.
Has anybody ever got a custom off Anatomik & 1111 customs. I have heard mixed things about 1111 but have never used it so looking some info on those two sites.
Yeah i sent an email to both 1111 got back to me a bit out of my range which is fine they seemed nice enough but out of my range for now. After what you said about they worked with AT i would assume the same with them has well then. Thanks.
I had a custom video done by 1111Customs. It took close to 2 years for them to deliver the video coz covid happened a week after I placed the order. The custom originally had Sunny Lane as the model/performer. It didn't happen so we had agreed for Nicole Sage as the replacement. They delivered and quality of the video was excellent. Turned out extremely hot and Nicole Sage nailed it. The only thing I didn't like was the turnaround time and that I felt ghosted at one point when I asked for a refund. But they did deliver and the quality was topnotch. Would I do it again? Probably if they had a performer on their roster that I fancy a lot. It is quite expensive but the product delivered is very high quality and professionally shot.
I hate onlyfans, no more Jenna Haze, Lexi Bell, Sasha Grey, Alexis Love, Gauge, Aurora Snow, Mia Khalifa, I hope AI gets so advanced to generate super realistic Porn for those good once.
Would be interesting to see i seen plenty of AI vids but never an AI porn vid, If the model give their approval for it i would give it a shot. I would even settle for AI to remaster older vids but i have heard of no program that can do that but i have no clue about such stuff.
^The technology isn't too far but the money is and always will be the primary reason why they aren't remastering older porn. There is already so little profit to be made in porn that no one will waste the kind of money they would have to. To clean and remaster old porn. Even if someone had the capability to do AI Generated porn with pre-existing performers. Getting the rights to those peoples virtual avatar might be next to impossible.
AI-generated porn is still in its early stages, but there have been some advancements in deepfake technology and AI-generated models that could eventually replace human performers. The key issue is realism, most AI content still struggles with making movements and expressions look truly natural. If AI can improve enough to generate realistic scenes with approval from performers (or even create entirely synthetic performers), it could change the landscape of the industry. The big question is whether audiences would fully accept AI content or if there will always be demand for real human performances.
You make a solid point, remastering older content is a niche market, and with the low profitability of traditional porn, studios probably won't invest in it. But I'm thinking less about big studios doing the work and more about an end-user AI tool that anyone could use at home.
Imagine an AI app where you upload pictures and videos of your favorite performer, and the model learns their appearance, voice, and mannerisms. Then, you could generate completely new scenes with them, tailored to your preferences, without needing a studio's involvement or permission. This wouldn't be about mass production but rather a personal tool for fans to create the content they want.
Of course, the ethical and legal side is a whole different debate. But with how fast AI is evolving, it seems inevitable that something like this will exist sooner rather than later.
Yeah i would like to remaster old scenes at home for my own personal use. Generate completely new scenes with them would be nice has long has i was not selling or making money of those scenes but i think real laws will be in place by then.
Topaz Video AI has apparently come out with a new model (diffusion based I think) which can only run in the cloud which is meant strictly for upscaling old footage.
Regarding the rest, what I think first needs to happen is Image-to-Text or Video-to-Text model that is trained on a combination of regular images as well as porn. Even the most photorealistic models currently (Flux 1d for example) have a hard time with penises for example. It has no idea about body anatomy either I believe. Training on porn alone might not suffice, but who knows, maybe a model that's trained exclusively on Vixen videos could hallucinate a stereotypical Vixen porn video. Same with Bangbros, Brazzers, etc.
Lately, it seems many of my free subscriptions are now $5.00 a month. Does anyone know if this is due to some change to OF's terms of service? Are they encouraging performers to charge so that they get a cut?
I used to have an OF account, and followed three women. One was pretty nice, when you talked to her it was actually her. How do I know this? she was a girl from my area lol. I sent her some tips and got some very nice pics. She deleted her account a few years ago.
Another one was this quite famous model/tv presenter from my country who never posted nude pics and never replied to comments, except to one dude. Which turned out to be her husband. Was it a scam? hmm... probably.
The third one was this beautiful fitness model who's messages were almost always "generated". She never stopped asking for money. I did sent her some tips, but it was getting annoying. She deleted her account, came back and deleted it again.
- But not just any hot girl. If she has pokies, she's a good candidate. If she's in a skit where she drops to her knees or sticks her tongue into her cheek, or ... you get it. Or you will pretty quickly. Lots of girls just dance and lip sync or look pretty. I click past them.
- Or, just click on the name. - On an FB profile click on About, then click the link if there is one. - On an IG profile, the link will be in the info at the top of the page.
- Once you're on her OF page, copy her OF handle.
- Go to Google. Paste the handle and add "porn." Or use her FB or IG name and do the same.
- Search Images. If you find some pics of her with a dick in her mouth or getting fucked, you at least know what type of content is sometimes available. Quality will vary, but you know that.
- Repeat. Once the algorithm figures out you like hot girls, you'll start seeing more and more.
That's how I found Marie Dee, Joell Perry, Sophie Van Meter, Ella Alexandra, Beri Galaxy, Roux Roux, Jules Ari and more. I'm working my way through subscriptions now.
For amateur porn and solo content there's nothing like onlyfans these days. I found girls that could be top models doing stuff that you would't be able to see if it wans't for onlyfans.
Serena Abweh. No, the price wasn't the problem. The problem was that I immediately understood that I wasn't actually talking to her: generic replies that also took a suspicious amount of time to receive. Her OF seems to be "different", in the sense that she claims to post her cooking videos, drawings and etc. Nothing of that is actually there. There aren't any nudes either.
The one thing I've been noticing is content is being priced much higher now.
I don't know if that speaks to the economy in general, or if OnlyFans isn't making enough or if these content creators have increased expectations/cost-of-living expenses.
Either way, it's getting much more expensive supporting some of these women and unfortunately/fortunately, my attention span isn't nearly short enough in these days of instant gratification that I'm able to simply say "fuck it" to some of these women whom I've been following for a while and move onto the next one.
There's just too many customers that take the bait and reward it and allow themselves to get maneuvered into that role, or even worse, actively enjoy it. OF is still useful if you are diligent about filtering out the spammy employee run accounts, bait/switch, and stupid games, and only pay fair value for quality porn content. Manyvids is often more cut and dried better for this. But for me, this exercise has become less and less fruitful over the last 2-3 years. So many that I like as performers in the industry have accounts like this that are unbearable.
On the flip side a lot of good value is to be found engaging with new burgeoning starlets before they are famous, or camgirls/girls next door that are not in the industry at all.
Posted - Sep 5 2024 : 2:27PM
