"How is it a scam when they offer a free month and you check it out without ever considering subscribing?" Even if we don't call this a scam, it can still arguably be taking advantage of them even if they're choosing to give this offer. If you're saying it's not, then how are they taking advantage of you by giving you time and a free month which you acknowledged you got. It seems like they were generous with you from your own words.
I don't do free trials of anything without considering subscribing, not even multi-billion corporations like Netflix. If customers expect businesses, OF models, etc. to be ethical toward them, they need to be ethical too. That said, if I do the trial and the quality is bad or I'm just not into it and decide not to subscribe, that's one thing but I at least considered it. That's the purpose of a trial and it's the same on OF. The difference is that in the case of OF, you're not dealing with just multi-billion dollar corporations but with many independent models who put the time and effort into creating their page and all the work that goes into it (such as pictures, editing, posting, responding to DMs which not all have the resources to hire somebody else to do) and were generous enough to give a free month and some other freebees such as pictures, video clips, messages, etc. Sure, it's the viewers decision whether to subscribe because they have power in this sense, but if they're not interested enough in this model to even consider subscribing, then it's unethical to take advantage of the free trial and just try to get something for nothing. Why be so cheap with models if you want them to be generous with you? If OF is really as bad as people on here keep saying, then what's the purpose of "wasting time" doing a free trial.
People on here keep complaining about OF models being unethical, but ethics go both ways. If it's unethical for models to charge for pictures and videos on OF that are available elsewhere online for free (which somebody claimed and the comment was wiped out during the cyber attack like many), then how is this any more ethical? Especially considering that some pictures and videos are pirated, so the model might not have posted them free or even know where they're posted.
To add to that, it's important to understand that OF isn't a dating or match-making site. It's a site for posting videos, pictures, and sometimes doing live cam for pay. If people are looking for an ongoing, intimate relationship beyond that, they may wish to try sites such as eHarmony or Match.com instead.
Yes, and if they're so worried about whether the person responding to their DM's is the actual OF model, they may wish to try a live camming site instead where the cam models are available on cam in real time, so they don't have to rely just on DMs. If they say something to them, they can see or hear that the actual the model is responding.
"VERY naughty stories." How can anybody not tell this is fantasy? If that didn't give it away, she also says "the girl you fantasize about in a grocery store." Fantasize is the key word here. You can fantasize she's your friend or whoever you wish. Your fantasies are yours. I hope she's well compensated for telling these naughty stories and maybe she does integrate some aspects of her real-life into it. We don't know. Creativity is a plus.
If you've ever felt taken advantage of then you have my sympathy Simple Simon. But these two are right, this is a transaction. It's like getting upset that a stripper doesn't really like you and isn't actually named Candy. I would agree that there is a larger issue about how young people are introduced to pornography. There shouldn't be this must trouble distinguishing between some stranger on a sexwork platform asking for donations to every time you talk and offering videos of themself for sale VS a girl you've actually flirted with in real life for free wanting you to pay for a date.
In terms of her comments about building long-term connections, I established long-term connections with some of my viewers. We just have an ongoing courteous, friendly, mutual respectful cam model-client relationship. That's better than being jerks to each other. In terms of getting to know each other on a personal level, there's information about my real-life self that I share on my profile, such as that I'm a vegan, I enjoy hiking, nature walks, and spending time on my hammock plus gardening. They may also share some things about themselves with me. However, I'm still very big on privacy and respecting boundaries. Whether they consider it a friendship is up to them.
I'm just trying to figure out why thousands of men are willingly paying OF $30+ every month for images of someone that they've never heard of and that they could readily find similar of other women on the internet for free.
If it is because they think they have some kind of friendship with woman, that the woman cares about them or even that they are in some kind of relationship, then I think that is a concern. (And i didn't know our response was to take advantage of them, and laugh at them.)
Changed "could readily find on the internet for free" to "could readily find similar of other women on the internet for free"
Is the OF model posting these free images elsewhere or are they pirated? Or, the OF model and other people in the image (if it's not solo), photographer, videographer may have a contract or agreement saying they all have rights to the images, so somebody else may be posting them free. Though I cannot speak for why customers spend what they do, maybe it's because they wish to support the model and compensate her for her content that she takes the time to create.Edited by - Tessa on 4/1/2023 9:00:27 PM
In terms of fans assuming they're more than just fans, my concern is mainly for the safety of the OF models in this case. Like, if fans have a delusion that they're the model's best friend or she has some romantic interest in him, this mentality can and has led to stalker-type behavior. It has happened to actors, actresses, musicians, and so on.
These types of guys may act kind and caring and like they just want to be friends, but how can they be anybody's friends when they don't know what this word means. Friendship is about respecting boundaries and not just about what one person wants. What may seem like kindness and a desire for friendship or an intimate relationship on the surface is really more about power and control from these types of guys. Despite all the complaints about OF models trying to take advantage of viewers, these guys are actually trying to take advantage of the models and worse.
I'm a fan of the late Olivia Newton John, but that doesn't mean I assumed we were best friends or that she had some kind of romantic interest in me. If I were to, that would be creepy. I just enjoy her content in terms of music like some fans enjoy the content from adult industry performers or models. Don't make it into more than what it is. After all, consider the name of the website- Only Fans. Thus, it's about fans subscribing to models' pages and accessing content.
Just because an OF model may be nice to a customer or respond to their DMs doesn't mean to take it further than that. This is just basic human courtesy and I imagine customers would prefer this than rudeness. Maybe the model genuinely does appreciate their customers' business and that they enjoy their content.
Why am I using gendered language? Yes, fans and performers or models can be of any gender. So can stalkers and stalking victims and survivors or people who just try to take it too far and overstep boundaries. However, I'm using gender language because it's not equal across genders and because various commenters on here have made gendered generalizations, often against women.
The first clue that its not a friendship is that their is an exchange of services for money.
I don't have to pay friends to hang out with me, we hang out of common interests, caring for each other etc.
Also to Simple Simon's question regarding what brings men to some OF accounts while there are millions of free naked photos online.
It's the hope of contact or developing something BUT that hope and fantasy is squarely on the the man's shoulders because like I said above, friendship, relationships, love is supposed to be non-transactional.
Also, that question about why people pay to subscribe to OF models' pages when there's so much available for free online can be asked about other sites too. Like, why do people pay for videos on Adult DVD Empire or Hot Movies when there's so much available for free online? Why do people pay to subscribe to or buy videos from porn studio or company sites when there's so much available for free online? I can think of various reasons.Edited by - Tessa on 4/2/2023 11:36:29 AM
The platform itself is terrible - content creators should NOT be able to offer a subscription service and then paywall their content. I have seen a massive disproportion between what content is provided on a subscription level, with almost everything paywalled.
As a consumer you can't easily see what's available either. The vast majority of OF pages are hidden until you pay, then you're told what you can and can't view. That's unacceptable.
Well, joined an OF of a popular former WWE diva (out of curiosity), message pinged today offering me a chance to unlock a 2 minute video for $120.... I genuinely nearly did fall off my chair. 🤣
The fans of comedy porn and incest porn have overrun and almost completely routed other types of content in the U.S. industry. OF is becoming THE place to get something else.
This has probably already been discussed in some fashion on here, but an issue I see is that there doesnt seem to be any protection for the "fans". Namely for their spent money. A few weeks ago I purchased a custom from a prominent OF model (who I will leave nameless). She told me she would create the requested custom content "asap". Now, almost a month has gone by and the content hasnt been delivered. I've politely inquired about the status, and she has responded with "I'm getting to it" or "I'll let you know when it is done". In all likelihood she'll produce the content, but if she doesnt what recourse do I have? I could probably file a complaint of some kind, but will I get my money back? Very unlikely. There are no guarantees for the purchaser and no seeming protections for money spent.
So I just made an onlyfans last month and so far I love it!💕 I know I'm super late to the game but so far it has been a great experience for me and I'm grateful there is something like this out there 💕💕
I did indeed. I have absolutely no desire to spunk silly money on mediocre content just because the creator can do so. I don't mind them doing it, that's their prerogative and their content after all and I'm never going to pay it, but a little transparency goes a long way.
If you subscribe somewhere you expect a little in return. Apparently on this very OF page there was a VIP opening you had to pay for... then pay more to view the content once you were in.
As MightyKronos mentioned above, there's no protection for the fan bit of OnlyFans...
I don't see this as a problem of guys being gullible. In fact, quite the opposite. Sometimes they're the ones trying to take advantage of or deceive the women as mentioned. Instead, I see this more as an issue of compensating women for their content and time (rather than women "milking" their money whatever that's supposed to mean). If the guys get enjoyment and pleasure, they're getting something out of it too. In such cases, it's more of a mutual exchange where both get something out of it. I'm not referring to bad content or lack of content because the thread has moved beyond just discussing that.
I agree, I once had a custom from a very famous performer, only a voice note, but it was so lousy. Never more. Another one from a Florida performer was great. In case of money I also agree. I purchased 2,3 videos in the past from different performer on OF, telling me brand new scenes. In 1 case, I asked for the date of the prodcution, she said, made on Halloween, was weeks ago. After purchased, I figured out, this shooting was years ago. It was the same woman, I mentined above in terms of this voice note. Everyone knows her.
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ao606 Deactivated User
1035 Posts 11/20
Posted - Apr 21 2023 : 3:45PM
From the Elle Lee thread, she broke down why she chose to go the OF route over studio:and this absolutely explains why OF is the chosen route for a lot of performers. It's amusing seeing people on this forum complain about OF (and I agree OF has his own problems with how it doesn't protect consumers from scam artists), but until studios change up their revenue distribution to performers, this is only going to keep getting worse. Obviously, studio porn will still exist as a means of getting the foot in the door, getting some fame, or simply because some of these girls can't make it amongst the ocean of OF content creators, but OF might be the primary source of revenue for many of these performers
Plus, the comments on here are mostly from a fan's perspective rather than a performer's. I see both sides. The performers want freedom and control over their content, working conditions, and wages; and the fans want their money's worth- high quality content and a continual flow of new materials with their suscriptions and no upselling. Plus, to some fans it seems important that the actual performer responds to their DMs rather than an assistant.
As somebody who has worked for studios before and indepentendly doing live cam, I connect with what Elle Lee said- though I didn't know who she was and this is the frist I learned of her.
^^ "Models are expected to pay for their own testing, their own travel, hotel, wardrobe, as well as paying their agency anywhere from 15-25%"
"you profited MAYBE 300$ from that shoot after all your costs"
Wow!
I don't think anyone on this thread is blaming the women for leaving the commercial industry and going on OF. Just that if people are told they will be provided with specific things if they join, that they are actually provided with those things.
And personally, I wonder why (supposedly) thousands of men are willingly paying $30+ every month for images of someone they've never heard of - and that they could find similar of other women for free. If it's because they believe they have some kind of personal relationship with the woman, then I think that is an issue. Though I'm not necessarily blaming the women for this. (I mean, the whole concept of women "sweet talking" men, is women getting men to do what they want for them by making the men believe they have a chance.)
"you profited MAYBE 300$ from that shoot after all your costs"
Maybe sometimes, but it's not always so simple. An obvious factor is how much they get paid for a scene. Also, depending on where you're traveling to and how long you're staying, the cost of airfare and lodging could be $2,000 to $3000 (in U.S. dollars) or more. Thus, the performer would likely have to do multiple scenes just to break even nonetheless turn a profit. If you refuse to do this and just stay in your area, that could really limit the amount of work you get if you stick just with production companies. Thus, another advantage of working on our own.
Sometimes, the company pays for travel and lodging for the amount of time the performer is doing scenes for that studio. For example, Score paid airfare and lodging (spent one night) to get me to Miami for a day and that's it because it was just one scene. It's fine, not complaining about that and it went well. However, not every company does that and some performers may go to a certain area such as Prague, San Fernando Valley, or another place for say a couple of weeks at their expense and get as much work as they can during that time with as many companies as possible. I did that for 1 to 2 months in the San Fernando Valley, which made it harder to save much money because I was paying rent on 2 places- my aprartment in Vegas and renting from a producer in the San Fernando Valley. Thus, I decided to leave and go back to Vegas- still occaisionally traveling to do porn but only on a case by case basis and not often. To this day, I second guess my decision and wonder if I should have left my apartment in Vegas, stayed in the San Fernando Valley, and done more porn there since I had a place to live.
Sometimes, performers may go into debt because an agent fronts them money for airfare, a hotel or apartment, and so on and they have to pay them back plus whatever percentage the agent takes on top of that.
Point is it's more nuanced than people may assume and can take a while to make a profit in some cases.
One more thing: My sweet taking involves 2 words- "no sweetie." Not sure how that can be interpreted as leading them on, but I find it more polite than just saying "no"- which can come across as abrasive.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 22 2023 : 1:14PM
Does everybody think these studios are rolling in money? Not every studio is owned by Mindgeek and even Mindgeek isn't making billions. Most studios are working with a small budget and hire many employees who don't perform sex scenes. I think most of Mindgeek's staff are people who run their websites. I'm with performers on asking for better pay and better working conditions but some just think every studio is making "brazzer" or even Vixen-level money. They're not
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 22 2023 : 2:07PM
She most likely couldn't talk about it because she was under contract. I hope she wins the case because Vixen has been shady on stuff like "pay" for a minute now. I understand she signed the contract but the contract sounds unfair to the workers. And calling signed performers "independent contractors" is the same shit they do in wrestling. Just more proof that porn is like wrestling. Just that companies like WWE and AEW are worth billions or owned by a billionaire and Vixen is worth at most half a billion. But unfair pay and shady contracts are still wrong
I'm not sure what the Kenzie's story has to do with OF but unless the moderator decide to move it elsewhere then here is my take. I hope she has a lawyer willing to do it pro-bono because I don't know that he/she will get paid otherwise. I'm not sure how Kenzie will argue that her contract was restrictive when it didn't prevent her from shooting for other studios while under contract and considering that the bulk of all her videos were shot for other studios then good luck if that's one of the arguments. I'm also curious to know how she will argue that she should have been classified as a full time employee for VMG when the bulk of all her porn earnings was with other companies. I don't know about the rest of you but my company would not consider me a full time employee if I only worked part-time which is what Kenzie basically did while under contract. Now sure how she will argue that the requirements of her contract negatively affected her ability to get other offers seeing as the bulk of all her videos were for other studios.
"What can a Fan do if they tip for a video or send a tip but the Creator does not provide the desired content?
Unfortunately, we are unable to issue a refund in these circumstances. Private messages and tips are voluntary contributions. OnlyFans is a social network and our Creators are fully responsible for their own content. OnlyFans cannot guarantee any particular activity nor influence the Creator's decisions to manage their content.
A Fan may try to contact the Creator directly with regard to this issue."
So basically OF content creators can take your money and provide no content in return with zero repercussions. Sure you can unsubscribe, but that creator will just swindle the next helpless fan that comes along. So much for the "fan" part of onlyfans.
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ao606 Deactivated User
1035 Posts 11/20
Posted - Apr 28 2023 : 2:11PM
^ yeah, that's basically the biggest problem i've found with OF. Way too many scammy creators on the platform, particularly those who enjoyed some fame due to some Playboy modeling or such back in the day. If I wanted to issue a chargeback, I basically risk having my account locked.
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ao606 Deactivated User
1035 Posts 11/20
Posted - Apr 30 2023 : 8:26PM
OnlyFans just added DRM protection for videos. While great for creators to protect them from leaks, this is another blow for consumers who want to download and watch these vids on their machines. Obviously, OF has always had rules stating that content shouldn't be downloaded, but it hasn't enforced it in the past as it is doing now. I wanna reiterate that I'm not arguing for piracy, but rather the whole pay-to-unlock-content-that-you-can-only-stream-on-our-servers is like if you could buy individual songs on Spotify but you could only listen to them on Spotify and that too, as long as the label/artist had an agreement with Spotify.
Content creators on OF can already delete videos that you've previously unlocked at their behest, so for those agencies who already scam consumers with repetitive content and misleading captions, this is just another tool in their arsenal. Not to mention, OnlyFans's servers are already shoddy asf so streaming it on the platform is just as bad.
Would prefer it if there were different subscription tiers, one that allowed for download, or maybe adding a watermark to the video/photo, containing your username, as soon you unlocked something.
This could be a win-win. I expect some consumers to be thrilled about this protection because there were complaints about certain content they pay to access in OF being available elsewhere online for free. From your description, it looks like this new protection makes it harder for viewers to post the content elsewhere.
Complaints from consumers? I find that hard to believe. Maybe some, but not a significant number. I mean, most of us don't buy stolen Nikes out of the back of a truck, we probably go to the store or order off a website. But we're not usually thrilled when a stolen shoe ring gets shut down. Most of us simply don't care.
I could see the content creators being happy about this, and they should be. But consumers? I think some would be indifferent, while many will find it frustrating that they can no longer watch the videos on a better platform/with better software. I can't see any consumers being "thrilled".
Am I the only one to think that this latest move by OF is a sign that all isn't well with the platform because I can't see why they would need to add DRM to what I thought was already a pretty difficult platform to save videos on? You would think that the claims that OF is such a great money making platform for it's users would more of less negate the need to add something like DRM.
Believe it or don't, but some people on here have complained about paying for content on OF that was available for free elsewhere online. There are almost 1000 comments on this thread, so I'm not going to go back looking for specific ones. Plus, some were deleted during the cyberattack. The comment about expecting some customers to be thrilled about this was sort of sarcastic sort of not. It just struck me how people were complaining about OF content being available elsewhere online for free and then when they implement a protection making it harder to download and post it whereever, there's also complaints. It's like screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.
Also, I'm unclear as to why people cannot just watch the videos on the OF platform while their subscription is active. Are you saying that the video quality is better if they download and watch it from their hard-drive? For many sites (not just adult sites), subscribers are unable to download content for various reasons.
If more creators moved to LoyalFans there would be a lot less complaints. One platform never promotes adult content and has to pay non-porn creators to attract a new minority audience, the other is better designed and creative in every single way if anyone took a moment to read comparison articles.
LoyalFans actually sponsors adult events like the XRCO awards and Exxxotica, OnlyFans nearly gave all adult creators the boot.
LoyalFans has a clip store feature that allows paid downloads, OnlyFans still has a 240p streaming option in 2023 when 4K quality is common.
If your favorite creator isn't on LoyalFans tell them to consider joining (of course on a platform that won't censor rival names) OnlyFans has a bigger audience but as more users switch to LoyalFans there's less incentive to use it (though multiple revenue streams seems like common sense most don't try due to laziness)
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ao606 Deactivated User
1035 Posts 11/20
Posted - May 1 2023 : 9:36PM
It was always readily available to download on the web, if you knew basic browser tools. In other instances, it would be screen recordings. Which is why OF creators suffered a ton of leaks and google searches for OF creators are often littered with DMCA removals.Because OF servers are dogshit. and so is their UI. If you've ever tried scrolling back and forth in a OF video on your cellphone, you know how bad it is. On the web, it's better but it still isn't as fluid as watching something on your machine. Not to mention, with the advent of AI upscaling and all the other tools available for upscaling, color correction, etc. on your PC media players, it is simply a better experience watching it there than on OF.
