Here is a link

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The only thing I've ever had seized was a non-sex spanking video - but that's just the quirks of Australia's import and censorship laws.

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Until such time as the BBFC are legally forced to stop censoring certain consensual acts (I wouldn't hold your breath!), Customs will continue to open/seize, as they say they only allow material equivalent to R18

As others have said, they don't seem to bother much with US orders, but I have also had one from Ero opened - it was a European Bukkake title, and was let through without any problem.

Have you had any others opened, and if so, were they let through or seized?

TIA.

Edited by - struan on 2/26/2005 6:41:58 AM

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I have not had any US mail opened (which makes up 90% of my orders). Although i did have some discs stolen once from a light fingered postal worker who carefully resealed the letter.

As for GGG, some of their movies are pretty rough. Do UK sex shops sell R18 GGG films?

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(PS. In case anyone is interested and doesn't know, I've found the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) really useful for finding out about particular titles that have received R18 classification. Say for example, if you're a fan of a particular director or label you can do a search on their name and the search facility will bring up a list of all their titles that have received R18 classification. If interested, go to the BBFC website (www.bbfc.co.uk) homepage, click on the "Search for Title" option in the top right hand corner and on the resulting Search screen type in your relevant information in the "Any word anywhere" field):)

Edited by - Another porn addict on 2/26/2005 12:59:09 PM

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Jacco

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I can't stand the thought of someone opening my payed for goods (consensual adult entertainment), looking at them and then deciding not to let me have them.

Edited by - Tinaka on 2/26/2005 5:51:17 PM

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Another reason not to buy R18 is that some (many?) of the licensed sex shops which sell R18, as well as some of the producers etc. are members of AITA - like most trade organisations they appear to have only one interest, and that is to maximise their profits, frequently at the expense of consumers. Take a look at their shameful response to Ofcom's consultation on the proposed Broadcasting Code, in which they recommend that R18 not be allowed on TV because encryption etc. isn’t secure enough to ensure that children wouldn't view it.... nothing to do with protecting their monopoly on the supply of 'legal' porn within the UK, then – Oh, actually they are ‘honest’ (some might say stupid!) enough to admit that it is!!!?

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/past/Broadcasting_code/responses/A-B/aita.pdf

I also agree with Tinaka - I find it abhorrent that someone can dictate what (inherently legal i.e. consenting adults performing acts which are in themselves legal) material another person can and can't watch when that person has made a personal choice to do so.

Edited by - struan on 2/26/2005 6:54:48 PM

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I can appreciate what Jacco said re censorship as the titles that I get from Europe sometimes contain more explicit/non-censored content than titles produced by the same Studio that have received R18 classification (eg R18 Sineplex titles never have the pissing scene that is sometimes seen at the end of their European releases).

That having been said - and admittedly I'm pretty new to buying my porn abroad - from what I have bought so far I would say that the actual content (for me personally) won't be a factor with regards to where I spend my money in the future. I would have thought that I will be buying most of my porn from Europe in the future for one reason - the ability to buy titles not available in the UK (in licensed shops anyway). Unless you are specifically looking for a particular fetish (eg. watersports, gagging or fisting) then the actual content is otherwise fairly similar between R18 and non-R18 titles. As I personally buy porn purely for anal action I really don't find myself affected here.

Two things that will keep me buying R18 titles (albeit to a much lesser extent) in the future are : 1) That you have the ability to trade-in your old/unwanted titles in most of the licensed shops in London (which I'm reasonably near to) against new purchases. This I cannot do with titles that I tire of and which I have bought from Europe. I'm aware of the trading possibilities on this site and elsewhere, but personally I don't fancy this avenue 2) Stupid as it may sound I feel some sense of loyalty to the fledgling UK sex shop industry which, although I'll admit is nothing in comparison to that of our European counterparts, has to start somewhere. I've bought alot of what I would consider to be good R18 titles from the licensed shops in London and I'm glad that you can now visit (in London anyway) sex shops that are not dingy, where you're not hassled to buy soon after walking through the door (as was usually the case in the pre-licensed sex shop era) and where you can be sure that what you see on the cover is what you're actually buying (even if it is a censored version!).

I remember two unpleasant situations in the unlicensed era - I had spent ages going around the Soho shops looking for a particular title. Eventually I found a shop where the box was on display. Great! Bloke disappears upstairs, comes back down with video all wrapped up. What happens? Yup, back home and it's a completely unrelated title. Another (more nasty) situation. Went into another Soho shop, ask bloke if he has so-and-so. Yes mate, off to the car to get it. Wait in shop, he comes back with video. Nothing on it indicating what it was (half-ripped off label on the spine). You got a video over there, can you show me the title at the beginning? No mate, sorry no can do. Right then, I'm not interested. At which point the guy goes for me and I have to retaliate in kind, which buys me a brief moment to make a hasty exit.

Happy shopping!

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A couple of years ago i was in a unlicensed sex shop in Soho and a guy came in to make an exchange claiming they had given him the wrong film. The guy behind the counter flat refused and the customer left after a few expletives.
There was a few other customers in the shop so the owner muttered something about the customer only wanting to get a new film as he was bored of that one. Kind of a damage limitation exercise.

Incidently, this unlicensed shop was selling non R18 films for about £40!

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Edited by - john pype on 2/28/2005 5:17:54 PM

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Take a look at the melonfarmers website(www.melonfarmers.co.uk) for stories from UK people who've brought porn back with them from the Continent and been stopped at Customs.

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Check out the BBFC site for details of what they have censored in R18 titles – I think you may be surprised at just how censorious they are e.g. a selection of recent decisions:-

APPRENTASS 2
When submitted to the BBFC the work had a running time of 134m 7s. To obtain this category cuts of 7m 7s were required. The cuts were Compulsory. Compulsory cuts required for R18 to remove abusive dialogue references suggesting a familial relationship in an explicit sex work.

OLD & YOUNG VOLUME 2
When submitted to the BBFC the work had a running time of 71m 22s. To obtain this category cuts of 2m 25s were required. The cuts were Compulsory. Compulsory cuts were required to remove sight of potentially harmful sexual activity (in this case, a woman's vagina being penetrated by the handle of a feather duster) in accordance with BBFC Policy and Guidelines, and the Video Recordings Act 1984. An uncut classification was not available.

There are many, many more examples.

As for supporting UK establishments, as I mentioned, at least some of them are members of AITA, as well as some R18 producers, and consequently, IMO, they are not deserving of support.

BTW, I second Another porn addict's recommendation for the Melonfarmers site for anyone interested in news about censorship, curtailment of personal freedoms etc. Check the discussion page as well – lots of interesting stuff.

Edited by - struan on 3/1/2005 7:15:51 PM

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I'm clear about you not doubting what I said by the way.

I just think that it could well be the case that 'on the ground' what actually happens in practice might differ from what the official 'blurb' states. I also called and spoke to the National Customs Helpline about the same matter and was quoted the R18 guidelines blurb. That was a civil servant telling me that, not someone on the ground like the bloke I spoke to at Harwich.

I seem to remember reading on the melonfarmers website that Customs officers on the ground have some leeway as to whether they decide, or not, to confiscate material that falls outside the R18 guidelines and is therefore technically obscene.

Your point is an interesting one though and I think that the melonfarmers site also states that Customs policy can, and does, vary from location to location. If you got stopped it could boil down to who it was that stopped you, what type of mood they were in, the way you treated them. In short, allsorts.

If it was me and I was going abroad with the intention of personally importing porn on my return that fell outside the R18 guidelines I'd make it my business to very politely and frankly discuss my intentions with a Customs officer at the port/airport that I was coming back into (and tell them the subject-matter of what it was that I intended to bring back in order to ascertain whether this would be acceptable or not) on my return. Then again, I wouldn't worry about being upfront like this whereas others may not want to take this avenue.

I still feel ultimately though, after speaking to the bloke at Harwich, that they're really only concerned about porn involving children or animals. I remember reading a quote on the melonfarmers website about some guy who got stopped by Customs with a whole load of porn for his mail-order business. He said that when he was stopped he thought his number was up, but that all that happened was that they opened up all of his boxes of magazines - paying particular attention to teenies titles and the like - before sending him on his way with all his mags. Admittedly he did say that he was 99.9% sure that the material was within R18 guidelines before importing but - and this is the point - he did manage to ask one of the Customs officers involved if there was any subject matter that would have landed him in it. The answer : child porn.

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British laws regarding porn have become much more liberal over the last few years....and customs are having to adapt.

At this point i would still be very reluctant to order a large quantity of GGG/Service Animals/Throat Gaggers titles all at once for fear of them being confiscated.

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13-year olds today has probably seen more than most of us had... but I guess the most important is to keep adults from buying entertainment...

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Edited by - Tinaka on 3/3/2005 3:46:20 PM

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As I said though, and as you found out from the Customs’ helpline, official Customs' policy is to allow anything up to and including R18 equivalence; anything stronger is liable for seizure. However, I think you are correct in that it may well come down to how ‘reasonable’ the Customs’ officer who actually does the 'inspection' is, as to whether stronger than R18, but still consensual adult material, is let through. It could be more widespread though, in the form of confidential/internal guidelines that allow more than the public guidelines state, because they are, at long last, deploying resources in a reasonable and practical manner, but I doubt it

As others have said, it is a ridiculous situation, but, as far as I can see, UK authorities are still fundamentally pro-censorship, and continue to pander to the ‘moral minority’. Had the BBFC not been legally forced to certify some HC at R18 in 2000, Customs would probably still be seizing all HC! It would seem unlikely that the current situation will 'officially' improve unless further legal action is taken.

Edited by - struan on 3/5/2005 7:15:07 AM

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Had the BBFC not been legally forced to certify some HC at R18 in 2000, Customs would probably still be seizing all HC!

Sadly you could well be right here. Indeed I seem to remember that the then Home Sec was threatening to clamp down on our newly-found freedom at the time, and that it was only at the instigation of the BBFC that this change of affairs came about.

We're well behind some of our European partners in regard to what is and what is not permitted with regard to porn in the UK. I sometimes find it interesting to ponder why it is that the situation abroad -say in the Netherlands or Germany for example - is so different. Is it just down to the fact that we are geographically separated from the rest of the continent that this situation has been allowed to prevail for such a long time? Or are we (in the UK) generally, as a people, more inhibited about sex and pornography ("No sex please, we're British") than people in countries like these. Maybe it is down to the fact that people in countries like these are more tolerant than we (again, as a people) are? I certainly seem to remember reading somewhere that tolerance is a major factor in Dutch thinking and their outlook on life. Maybe Jacco would be prepared to share some thoughts with us here.

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I'm optimistic things will get better in the future.

Edited by - Tinaka on 3/5/2005 7:24:57 PM

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The, IMO, ever smaller ‘moral minority’ are becoming increasingly vocal at trying to inflict their own, narrow views on others; witness the organised response to the Ofcom Proposed Broadcasting Code consultation, where people seem to have put their name to a standardised response calling for R18 to be prohibited from TV (it already is!!!), and not even bothering to read the consultation document to which they are supposedly responding. Talking of Ofcom…

Ofcom have recently, and unjustifiably IMO, proscribed Extasi TV, a channel which is broadcast by the owners of SCT (who are the oldest HC broadcaster in Europe and therefore presumably a reputable company); it is, AFAIK, licensed in Italy, and allowed in other EU member states, so again, presumably, broadcasts inherently legal material. Even more ludicrously, this channel is only available on Hotbird, which, I’m guessing, the vast majority of UK satellite viewers cannot even receive as they only have $KY – so much for Ofcom applying reasonable, proportionate and light touch regulation, when the majority of people probably haven’t even heard of the channel!!!

The ‘new’ BBFC guidelines, published only last month, offered no improvement at R18. In fact, it seems that the vaguer nature of the ‘new’ R18 guidelines has, as I feared, allowed the BBFC to apply even more censorship, and in a surreptitious manner.

There are other examples of why I believe that there is a real threat to what little existing freedoms we have, let alone a realistic chance of the situation actually improving, but that will do for now, as I'm beginning to depress myself

Edited by - struan on 3/6/2005 7:30:58 AM

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The reason that we suffer so much censorship is because the majority of politicians pander to the ‘moral minority’, and they believe there are no votes in as controversial a subject as porn. We should, of course, have the same freedoms as the rest of the EU, but this will not happen unless the authorities are legally forced to comply.

Edited by - struan on 3/6/2005 7:49:18 AM

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Yes, there are major differences in the acceptance of porn between the UK and other West-European countries. I had absolutely no problem telling my family or friends when I got my current job, but I know English people in the industry who have been in it for many years and still have to hide the fact from their family. Tolerance is probably a factor, and yes that (all though it is getting a bit worse lately) is a major thing over here.

One of my personal pet theories is that the UK (and the USA) is basically a one-party-state, the party who won the last election is left with absolute rule. In most other West-European countries we almost always have coalition governments. This makes for a focus on negotiation and compromise, in stead of polarisation. If you have to come to an agreement with another party, it is better to be tolerant of the differences, or you have no way to create a workable relationship. Whether this permeates down to society in general, or it is the other way round, I don't know for sure.

Jacco

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You could well be right about the (it's official name is "first past the post") electoral system in the UK and how it doesn't allow for balanced decision-making in the UK parliament. I personally - along with all other Liberal voters in the UK - can only hope that the electoral system will somehow (and I'm afraid I can't see how) be changed in the UK at a future date to the
"proportional representation" type of electoral system that you probably have in the Netherlands, which as you say allows for a much greater say on the part of smaller and more diverse parties. Unfortunately, I think that such a system is unlikely to ever be introduced in the UK because it could only be introduced via the present (first past the post) system and it is not in the interests of the big two (Labour and Conservative parties) to introduce such a system as it would lead to a major erosion of their power.

Recently we have seen the introduction of "regional assemblies" in the UK (Scotland and Wales) which have some nominal power but many would argue that in reality their powers are very limited and that they are really only "talking-shops".

There's no doubt in my mind though that your type of system (in the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe) is much fairer even it does mean that decision-making process is more drawn-out and does take longer.

By the way, when you say that tolerance is "getting a bit worse lately" do you mean things like the murders of Pym Fonteyn and Theo van Gogh? Or are you referring to Dutch attitudes (and tolerance) towards matters like porn?

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The laws doesn't have to be changed in any way, it's how they're put in use that makes a diffirence. In Holland drugs aren't legal... just accepted as part of a liberal culture.

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Gunzo:
Germany may be a bit harsher, but their idea is basically the same idea as here: violence is bad, sex is good!
Our local filmrating system (which is voluntary and just gives an advice, not like the BBFC) doesn't give a film a 16 (highest rating we have, there is no 18 rating) just for nudity or sex, but they might do that just for violence.
About drugs: using drugs or just possessing an amount for personal use is not illegal here, the weirdness comes in that technically it is legal to buy and use drugs, but it is not legal to sell drugs. If it wasn't for foreign pressure we would have probably legalized the last part too by now, most people here wouldn't mind it. The Tax Office would love to tax marihuana the same as cigarettes and booze.

Jacco

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Also, if I'm not mistaken, prostitutes couldn't (or still can't) perform vaginal sex for money, but the law said nothing about oral or anal... So this law only seem to have lead to increased pervertion and 'demoralization'.

jacco:
I remember watching Discovery travel & adventure, and this episode claimed that drugs actually were taxed in Holland despited being an illegal business.

The US annoys me more though with their religious view on sex as a very bad thing... while violence has always been a way to 'convert' non-believers.

The world should be more about orgies and less about war I think :)

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The minority parties also are able to decide who is in power - this happened in Germany in the 80's when the Government changed from a left to a right wing one without an election.

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Gunzo: I guess they meant that coffeeshops pay taxes like other companies, that is true, but I meant the taxes added to tobacco and booze (and which are paid by the customers), those the taxmen would love to be able to add to other drugs.

Jacco

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Do you know who she is jacco?

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http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/home.htm

It is quite different from the Assembly in Wales AFAIK, as it has law making powers over devolved issues (e.g. Education, Health, Transport, Local Government etc.). I freely admit that I'm not an expert on the Welsh Assembly, but I have seen the term 'talking shop' used more than once in connection with it.

The problem, however, is that although we currently have a coalition government (a result of the Proportional Representation system used for the Scottish Election) between the Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish Liberal Democrats, it is effectively Labour policy that is implemented as the Lib Dems have, IMO, sold out there principals for ministerial jobs. Further to this, Scottish Labour, under their current leader seems to do largely what Labour at Westminster want them to, again, IMO.

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Edited by - struan on 3/7/2005 6:36:20 PM

Edited by - struan on 3/7/2005 6:37:25 PM

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(Isn't Jacco an obvious male name?)

Jacco

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I focused more on the picture rather than the name - the picture obviously took precedence in my mind over the name, especially as I think she's quite hot!

Incidentally just a quick point about names. A person's sex isn't always obvious from their name. You know that Italian bodyguard who got shot dead rescuing the Italian journalist? I thought that was a woman when I heard the name of the bodyguard (Nicola Calipari). 'She' however was actually a man! Also recently, the Beckhams have named their recently-born son 'Cruz' which is in fact an old-fashioned Spanish girl's name.

Edited by - Another porn addict on 3/8/2005 6:44:34 AM

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(this thread is really going everywhere, but it sure is interesting)

Jacco

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