Like I was saying, content-wise, Modelhub is about the same as Manyvids, Clips4sale or other clips sites. The majority of the content will be from the legit creators, and there will be some catfishes.

I think having a profile on Modelhub is more selective than even being verified on PH. As far as I know, once verified the model then has to also sign up for the model program to have a Modelhub profile.

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I noted a few parts i wanted to reply.

First one is Drew who mention that he wasn't even aware (in 2019) that pornhub was used as a legitimate way of selling content. I kinda have a feeling the peoples who operate this website were probably already adults when they did in 1999 right? Make sense. Could they had been in their 20s, 30s or even 40s? That could mean some of them could be 60 years old now... My point in this is some peoples like their old ways, i do too. Sometimes you like something and you stick to it for as long as possible. Im on Windows Vista... yeah... because surprisingly my computer still work despite having been "very solicitated" for 10+ years. So ill "evolve" when i need too. Maybe those guys, the admins, are just not aware of all the changes that happened in the industry?

My prediction is that the membership type of porn sites will most likely die in the next 10 years exept for a few giants (brazzers, reality kings etc). Peoples won't be willing to deal with the hassle of subscribing and cancelling to websites all the time, all of this for a mere 4/5 scenes a month. The "a la carte" will be the prefered models. The only problem now is that exept a few companies/performers, most of it is priced way too high. Maybe in part to fight against piracy, i dunno, but the reality is if i see a scene at 5$ im much more willing to get it than at 26.99$. Another model that could work is a "netflix of porn" , where you have contents from every companies and its constantly renew for 15$ a month... that could be interresting.

Wich bring me to my second point, some peoples mentioned music. Music was probably the most pirated thing at one point. The way the industry managed to save itself is by evolving. Now i can have any songs at the click of a button on youtube at home (yeah i know, advertisers bring money and this can't apply as much to porn for now) but there is also spotify wich is a subscribtion model, for what 10/15$, you can have all the music you want at a click anywhere. And still CDs are being sold, why because some "old" geezers like me want the physical thing. Vinyl even made a comeback cause again, its a great sound for purist. Bands still make money by touring and selling merch, something that ANY pornstar can do.

For a long time pornstars have been at the mercy of production companies. I know i will sound a bit too feministe even to my own liking there, but they where paid a few hundred $ for a scene that would remain online or on dvd for companies to sell time and time again. But things evolved. Vivid was a giant back then, and hell i don't even know if they still exist :O. Now performers can make money by being more involved. Just like bands they can tour and meet fans (club saphire for instance), they call sell merch, they can produce themselves some content for onlyfans etc. Its easier than ever to give the fans stuff they want and making a living out of it. The industry is evolving and only the old porn producers are actually loosing on it. Not the models for as long as they are willing to work for it.

Piracy was always there, before it was tube sites it was torrents, and unless some drastic laws are being put in place, this will hardly ever change. And even if they do go hard after pirates, peoples will find another way. Vpn for instance. Will they outlaw VPNs? I don't even know if its possible.

You gotta adapt to evolve.

My last point is what Flash has written himself. Modelhub stars linking their pornhub profile on their account. Well can't you see why? ITS FREE PUBLICITY !! A consumer that will find somebody he likes on modelhub, first thing he will want to do is go see "samples" of this performers. Then he will go on pornhub on her page and see those shortened versions put online by the companies or sometimes free videos put by the model herself. If he likes her a lot, he will be willing to spend some money. Thats just marketing 101. And that should be enough to legitimize those sites for the peoples running this website here.

And a bit unrelated but i think the porn industry truly need a "paypal for porn" as well. I am not comfortable putting my credit card everywhere. I rarely buy from any websites with my credit card, i always use paypal. Paypal offer me protection and this way nobody but paypal get my number. But the only "oopsie" is that paypal does not like adult content. So another company should definately step in and make a name for itself for it. Thats what bothers me the most when buying porn, its always credit card here, credit card there. I wish there was a better system for payments. And another thing for christ sake, TURN OFF THE AUTO RENEW, thats the most annoying thing of them all.

I am not rich, i can't pay 5 subscriptions to porn websites at the same time in a month. I got to choose ! So one month it will be one site, the other one it will be another, i consume a lot of porn so more often than not, i consumed everything a website has to offer in less than 2 months anyway, so im ready to move on the next one and only come back to the first when there is enough new content. So this really annoys me to have to manually unsubscribe, and its not always clear and easy.

Onlyfans has that problem too, you litteraly loose acces when you unfollow, but make sure you unfollow before your billing day because otherwise you are following again for one month. And there is no way to see any previews, so you basically follow and pay blinded, so often you won't want to follow again, but you want to be allow to use the time you paid for right?

Anyway im getting a bit off topic, but my point is the adult industry is evolving, it still need lots more changes, but what we as consumers have to do is make sure we help it in the right direction.

When a site like here keep sticking to the "old ways" its not helping. I know the site is call adult DVD talk, but dvd's been dead (at least for porn) for a while now... Hell im a physical media collector, i buy hollywood/bollywood movies on DVD/bluray, i buy my music on CD, i buy my video games even mostly on disc, i collect retro games too. But for porn? I don't want DVDs... I got no attachment to a physical media. Even if im very liberal when it comes to porn and the adult entertainement as a whole, i wouldn't display adult dvds on the shelves... So i don't want a bunch of DVDs in a box and having to open it when i feel like fapping. Everything at one click on a hardrive is so much easier. So its fine to keep the name for "old time sakes" and nostalgia purpose, but time to evolve a bit and follow the market (wink wink)

Anyway, that was my long rant about it, not sure if you guys will read it all, but yeah if i was in charge i would embrace anything that could help mainstream the adult business, because ultimately thats what we all want, even if some peoples won't admit it. I dream of a world where porn would be discussed without taboo by anybody and it wouldn't be seen as that "evil thing" by some peoples.

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Until technology renders them obsolete, tube sites will continue to exist and flourish. Having limits such that you cannot mention tube sites exist seems to force users to ignore reality.

My $.02.

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Edited by - Drew Black on 9/26/2019 7:58:36 AM

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It seems that this change came about because of a New York Times editorial which caused an investigation by credit card companies. The AP reported on it: Pornhub calls halt to unverified users posting on its site

According to the statement on PH's site it seems to be a permanent change going forward, though it doesn't seem like they announced that all videos from non-verified accounts will be deleted:

Edited by - melvinpowell on 12/8/2020 7:29:03 PM

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There are actually three ways to be verified on PH which are found on its help page that I won't link here:

1) Verification - This is only to verify that the account is run by a real person and gives the user a blue checkmark by their name. It only requires the user to send a photo with them holding up a piece of paper that has their username written on it. (I'm guessing that this is the method that you're referring to and think that is all will be required next year.)

2) Model Program - This method enrolls the user into the Model Program and allows them to get paid and upload videos for purchase on Modelhub. It requires the user to submit documents so that PH can authenticate the user's identity, which is essentially the same or very similar to what platforms like ManyVids or OnlyFans require for users to earn money.

3) Content Partners - which is the process for production companies to get verified so they can earn from the ads on the videos they post or from the subscription dollars from videos they upload to Premium.

I also believe that there is a process to verify videos which requires submitting ID for each person appearing in the video.

Currently PH has made it so only categories 2 and 3 can upload, and I believe that next year it will be the same, except they may also implement some other verification measures, based on that quote you mentioned specifically stating that a user's identity authentication: "we will implement a verification process so that any user can upload content upon successful completion of identification protocol." (Emphasis mine). Since the point of this change is to cut down on non-consensual content (because they don't want to lose partnerships with credit card companies), I think that PH will be require users to go through verification processes that are more than just the first process because otherwise, as you said, it would still allow a lot of users to just submit a photo with their username and then start uploading whatever they want.

We'll of course just have to see exactly how this plays out. Even if they make these policies it won't be enough without sufficient moderation and enforcement. And without a sweeping effort to remove non-verified content or move it to the verified owners' accounts, then it will be only a half measure.

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So if my comments here look a bit out of place, now you know why.

I've read the NYT story and it really does come across as inflammatory. The language that the journalist uses seems chosen to elicit emotion rather than an explanation of the issue. This is an opinion piece so that makes it different from straight reporting but it still bugs me that the author chose the specific language he did.

I have very little exposure to PornHub. In fact, I didn't even know that it was more than a piracy site and that you could buy and download stuff from them.

What little I do know about PornHub is that they must have millions of videos with thousands (or at least hundreds being added daily and keeping the site free of illegal stuff would be pretty difficult. But, it does sound like they weren't really being diligent in keeping these videos off the site either. They were doing something, but not enough.

I'm glad to read that PornHub has taken measures to fix this problem. More does need to be done and that includes more being done to curb the abuse of men sharing intimate and private nudes of women who shared them but had no intention of having them passed on. I genuinely hope that there is a special place in hell for men who do that. And I hope that what gets them there is a slow, painful death as a form of Karma.

The article also notes that a viewer can find Girls Do Porn scenes on PornHub. Yes, they do note that GDP is being prosecuted but when read in the context of the story it seems that the intent may be to place some of the blame for GDP on PornHub.

I'm not surprised that the NYT targeted PornHub. For one, it's huge and that makes it a target anyway, but for another, it's titular headquarters is in Canada and that makes it an easier target too. Trust me, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) is already all over this. They're feigning and swooning and will take what the NYT aggrandized and amplify it to 11. It may be that the NYT has a clear mark between journalism and opinion columns, but the CBC doesn't seem to suffer from those constraints.

I pulled a few quotes from the NYT article.

"Yet there's another side of the company: Its site is infested with rape videos. It monetizes child rapes, revenge pornography, spy camvideos of women showering, racist and misogynist content, and footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags."

"The issue is not pornography but rape."

"The problem with Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein was not the sex but the lack of consent - and so it is with Pornhub."

"I came across many videos on Pornhub that were recordings of assaults on unconscious women and girls."

"Pornhub profited this fall from a video of a naked woman being tortured by a gang of men in China."

"It should be possible to be sex positive and Pornhub negative."

"Top hits include a video of a naked "very young teen" engaging in sex actson XVideo along with a video on Pornhub whose title is unprintable here."

"But if you know what to look for, it's possible to find hundreds of apparent child sexual abuse videos on Pornhub in 30 minutes."

".but Mindgeek is aporn titan. If it operated in another industry, the Justice Department could be discussing an antitrust case against it."

"Pornhub and Mindgeek also stand out because of their influence."

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada calls himself a feminist and has been proud of his government's efforts to empower womenworldwide. So a question for Trudeau and all Canadians: Why does Canada host a company that inflicts rape videos on the world?"

"So while it is now no longer possible to search on Pornhub in English using terms like "underage" or "rape," the company hasn't tried hard to eliminate such videos. . 'Girl with braces' turns up 1,913 videos and suggests also trying 'exxxtra small teens.' A search for "13yo" generates 155,000 videos. To be clear, most aren't of 13-year-olds, but the fact that they're promoted with that language seems to reflect an effort to attract pedophiles."

"Another user posts videos documenting sex with teenage girls as they weep, protest and cry out in pain."

"While Pornhub is becoming more careful about videos of potentially litigious Americans, it remains cavalier about overseas victims."

"In the last few days as I was completing this article, two new videos of prepubescent girls being assaulted were posted, along with a sex video of a 15-year-old girl who was suicidal after it went online."

"One Pornhub scandal involved the Girls Do Porn production company, which recruited young women for clothed modeling gigs and then pushed them to perform in sex videos ."

". videos of six victims of Girls Do Porn were on Pornhub, which continues to profit from them. . One of the Girls Do Porn women I saw on Pornhub is now dead."

".but I don't see why search engines, banks or credit card companies should bolster a company that monetizes sexual assaults on children or unconscious women."

"With Pornhub, we have Jeffrey Epstein times 1,000."

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I've put it out to the moderators that we will be updating our policies here to reflect that we will allow links to PornHub and it's family of sites in the near future. Likely near the end of January after we see how all of this plays out. We're making this decision because we want the studios and independent models that use PornHub as a distribution method to be able to discuss and promote their content here. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

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Pornhub announced major changes to its platform on Tuesday.

The site says it will increase its moderation team, only allow verified accounts to upload material, and ban downloads.

Following the NYT column, major credit card companies Mastercard and Visa have reconsidered their ties to the platform and launched investigations into the popular site.

Business Insider

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Edited by - snufish on 12/10/2020 8:07:12 AM

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I'm really curious to know what the future holds for PH because these new rules are a good start but will that prevent the Government from looking at their past practices. Especially if the NY Times article is accurate and they allowed people to upload child pornography on their platform.

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That said I'm not so sure that their future is all that bright even if they implement all the changes and Visa and MC do business with them because I think that they may now be targets for many prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves and going after people who broadcast child pornography is an easy target.

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^I suspect it's only PH.

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pornlaw twitter

A sample:

"This is a 9.0 earthquake in the industry"

"The industry might not be here next year."

"Visa and MasterCard dropping @pornhub is the beginning not the end. Other sites will be investigated in the weeks/months to follow. I am sure that other sites/tubes will also lose their processing. Hang on & buckle up - its about to get very bumpy in the industry."

"This is about to put a lot more people out of business."

"No one buys Bitcoin. If they did 99% of the industry would be there already."

"there really isn't a possible 3rd payment gateway apart from Visa & MC. Bitcoin isn't ready to process that volume."

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I have any problem with what's happening to PH because these f..kers have been screwing the talent and other studios for years and if they go out of business then that can't be bad for the industry as a whole.

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I recall maybe 15 or 20 years ago there was a group petitioning CC companies and hotel chains to stop providing pay-per-view porn in hotels. Yes, the group was a crackpot religious group, but these groups to hold a lot of sway in the US. I recall that the media made a lot of this story and was mostly supportive of the crackpots. (Let's face it, the media have their own agenda to drive conflict.) But I also recall the reality that pay-for-porn in hotels generated a HUGE amount of money for hotels (I was really shocked at the number but can't recall it now) and CC companies made money off of the cards being used. But nothing came of it.

I suspect that will be the same here. Visa and MC will get some angry form letters from various evangelical groups and this will blow over as soon as the new season of the latest reality show starts on TV.

On the newer thread that was closed to move this discussion here, Fit18 said the same thing about other tube sites. He specifically mentioned TikTok and how it is largely the wild west compared to PornHub.

I also agree with you that it's about time that PornHub was called out on its practices. For so long it and other tube sites have made tons of money off of other people's hard work. I think the difference this time is that the affected people are those who attract empathy from the hypocritical society we live in who like to look down on sex work. Of course these hypocrites were find with theft from sex workers but it took this to make them mad. Not that they've changed their minds on sex work though.

I recall reading a quote from someone (I can't recall who) who in America, people publicly abhor but privately adore pornography.

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MindGeek should strategically take big steps now. That could be endorsing crypto, aiming to start a "no morality" smaller rival to Visa/MasterCard or something else entirely. Based on the criteria they used to withdraw from pornhub, all pornography is at risk.

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These kinds of things operate on "strategic plans"-conceived of typically years in advance. There is more clampdown in the works. VISA and MasterCard are not bumbling, neutral, "independent" companies. They are mechanisms of global monetary systems. Those systems are planned to go fully digital (cashless) and there is a considerable amount of tracking planned, along with mechanisms for influencing "consumer behavior". It isn't nefarious (it's seen as benevolent), and it isn't conspiracy theory (all out in the open, if you want go through central bank documents and trade publications).

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Edited by - zingerbrook on 12/11/2020 9:23:21 AM

Edited by - zingerbrook on 12/11/2020 9:24:22 AM

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Edited by - AngryPirate on 12/11/2020 12:35:30 PM

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PornHub has been under investigation for many, many months to my knowledge-likely much longer. As of April this year, they started to make changes. Crime is often not shut down immediately when it's known. It gives governments a chance to study criminal networks.

This commissioned NY Times article notifies the public so that public action can finally be taken (credit card shutdowns, public investigation). As I wrote above, it's "benevolent". But it's orchestrated.

You're under the impression that some journalist bravely wrote an article, took it to his editor who scratched his head and said, "Wow, let's publish this next week!" Various government officials woke up on Sunday, read the New York Times and said, " Geez guys, we've got to do something here." They phoned VISA and MasterCard executives first thing on Monday. By golly, if it weren't for The NY Times!

I believe that PornHub did get taken by surprise in terms of payment processing exits. According to plan. Also, as I wrote above, there's certainly more coming.

pat362 wrote:

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"... Facebook, which reported 84 million instances of child sexual abuse material over the last three years. In comparison, the Internet Watch Foundation (IWF) reported 118 incidents on Pornhub over the last three years."

I would prefer more consistent and transparent oversight. Government is largely idiots who in a better world would be lined up and shot.

Edited by - zingerbrook on 12/11/2020 8:39:24 PM

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The NYT article was an op-ed. Fact-checking some of the allegations, such as the search results for "14yo", would reveal it isn't correct. Most tubes have a simple banned-word list for uploads and pornhub hasn't allowed any underage terms for years, and most of the incidents mentioned occurred a decade ago. Moreover, title and content is furthermore human moderated on a very active basis.

Additionally, everyone knows of USC 2257, but there's also USC 2258, which makes it a requirement for tubes to report incidents of child porn. They can't just "make the money and delete it like it never happened" when someone finds out.

Knowing how the moderation process works on a tube, it's a real harsh, thankless job for some of the human moderators and the stuff they see.

To me, it's a shame pornhub is getting such bad press. As Zingerbrook pointed out, facebook has far more incidences of child sexual abuse. If NYT was serious about protecting children, they would do an expose about that, or even better, TikTok, which is being banned in countries for child exploitation.

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Most content which may miss moderation, are edge cases, such as girls who look older, but are actually underage. Once reported, they are quickly removed. Getting youtube's AI isn't going to help much when looking at a 16 or 17 year old. The biggest preventative measure is banning user uploads. This is necessary not just for age-related content, but also great for victims of revenge porn, which I would imagine is a far bigger problem.

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There are far more problematic players that deserve attention.

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This is absolutely just an attack against porn, based upon a totally hitpiece article.

Facebook is way worse but nothing is being done there.

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