I do not have a Facebook account and never will so hopefully I'm not wrong but I don't think you need a CC to join Facebook and therefore Visa or MC can't really block their users from joining FB. As far as I know FB is a social platform that allows it's members to share data like pics and videos among each other and allows multiples companies to advertise their products but at no point do you need a CC to enjoy many of the services that FB offers. Now if a someone as a FB page that does offer streaming/downloading child pornography then Visa and MC can and will likely will block the owner of the FB from using their card for purchases of those materials.
I can't speak about the quantity of child porn FB or PH have but I can understand why FB would have way more people reporting instances of child pornography seeing as many of the people that use FB are soccer moms and grandmas. It's not that unusual that they would be pretty upset with seeing anything remotely close to child pornography but somehow I don't think soccer moms and grandmas are PH main demographic.
In recent years, I've worked more in the business side of the industry. But, I'm here as a fan, not for personal marketing.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Dec 12 2020 : 10:09PM
That "member of our industry" has fucked over a lot of people in the industry. PornHub has bullied the porn industry just like Facebook has the tech industry; I don't feel sorry for either behemoth.
It's hard to sympathize with PH. But a non-transparent, globally-coordinated effort to crack down on porn-which is what this is, right-should have alarm bells ringing. Let's not get sidetracked.
^If other sites get targeted then maybe you will have a point but for now only PH has been hit and they were already not an overly legal player in the porn industry.
Although porn is the most visible face of the adult industry, it's actually a small portion relative to the other ancillary segments (owner of livejasmin was once the richest guy in Hungary after all). PH has issues with pirated content, but compared to other players, they are well behaved. Once you go past tubes, the industry gets far more shady and deserve a hard look, at least for consumer protection.
For example, adult dating is entirely fake and despite the adultfriendfinder leak, the industry continues to thrive. Adult dating is also often attached to bad practices such as promoting fake pills (which run the gamut from overpriced vitamins to complete placebos), or outright fraud in the form of card banging whereby they charge you for services you are not aware of.
Here's one common trick on adult dating and fake sites: you sign up for an account, and buried within the terms and conditions, is a pre-checked box that says you also agree to a $50 membership to another website. Nobody reads the terms and conditions, so they will never see this.
Furthermore, they may price it as something like $24.83 with the name on your statement showing up as "Invision Health" or something generic, so that if a user peruses their statement, they could dismiss the charge as a grocery purchase or something. A charge of 29.95 would be too obvious.
Worse are those guys responsible for the fake virus popups. They actively hack the advertisement networks to promote these scams, with adult sites being common targets which is why you always see reports of "most dangerous search" for particular celebrities and other adult content. They must be huge players because I've heard them target mainstream with payoffs to facebook engineers with luxury cars and women.
No, piracy is a feature of PH. That's the entire point of tube sites, provide video for free. Pornhub is scum bucket. VOD don't provide videos for free, they have 2257 info on every title.
Look at hotmovies, you will see 2257 compliance statement, every video. Who's the custodian of records for "Creampie Squad 22"? it's there. If you see "banging random chick" on PH, who's the custodian of records for that flick? no info, ph doesn't know, all they know is user57bang uploaded it. 2257 is required for every pornographic depiction or else it's illegal. Did you know when an account gets suspended or deleted, the videos from that account still appears on PH?
That's the reason they got phpremiumdotcom, based on federal law and v/mc rules there was no way phdotcom would get cc processing approval. PH is mind-geek's bread and butter.
You may as well tell me a one-time murderer who disembowelled their victim but is a model convict is comparatively well behaved against a convict serving time who committed dozens of petty crime offences and still finds trouble in prison.
There are models/performers/studios who allied with PH just to stop themselves losing out financially to the pirates who used their content illegally - the proverbial case of jumping in bed with the devil to stay alive.
My concern is the repercussions this attack on PH may have on the wider industry. If you can bring down part of a giant like Mind Geek, many others that could be challenged though hopefully their USC 2257 compliance will keep them well guarded.
With all that said, I find it very hard to weep for PH.
The US will likely be erecting an Internet "wall", conceptually similar to China's where non-domestic content will be difficult to access-and domestic content rules will be clamping down, across the board, not just porn. Most countries are. How things work for corporations operating across borders is currently being devised and debated.
I'm not theorizing, I'm telling. Each step in the process is designed to be minimally controversial. Starting with PH squares nicely with porn industry sentiment.
Don't cheer on these little bits of strategy-designed as they are-without view of the wider picture. It's tragic, even heartbreaking, to watch people get slowly duped.
Edited by - zingerbrook on 12/13/2020 11:50:05 AM
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bridge6296 Deactivated User
1041 Posts 8/13
Posted - Dec 13 2020 : 12:05PM
This post really stuck out for me. You're railing on about an invisible conspiracy while advocating for violence against government officials. What current BATSHIT crazy movement does that sound like?
^^You do know that Visa and MC are not American companies but International companies so them banning the use of their cards to PH in no way means that the US Government is now involved or that it will get involved. In fact they banned their cards to everyone across the planet and not just Americans.
That's the thing. I don't mean to be a dick, I doubt you spend much time reading policy, and it doesn't get reported on by CNN or other consumer media. So when you hear shit like that, you immediately dismiss it as "conspiracy theory".
It's not hidden information. Most people don't know where to look outside of a Google search. They don't go around reading policy documents or trade journal.
It's also not a "conspiracy" because not all of it is bad. Some of it is good! But you, personally, have no say over what gets planned. You're not even aware of it. You probably don't want to be. But don't dismiss what you lack in knowledge.
I feel like a large percentage of the population in this country suffers from a severe form of mental retardation. Not aimed at you. Just speaking generally. Maybe I am a dick.
ok i understand your on ADT as a fan like myself, when you mentioned your involved in the business side of the industry does it mean your an private investor or just business partnership with major adult companies?
My area is providing advice related to markets, to help decide where to invest and what to invest it in...policy perspective, consumer behavior-that sort of thing, including porn but not limited to porn. Large scale stuff, not so much small businesses like setting up a website whatever. Smaller stuff I did for free, like answering questions on where to find information on this or that-particularly for women-owned businesses, like porn or sex shops. I am very "pro sex" in that I detest censorship and sex-is-bad attitudes, so I like to help.
It seems Pornhub actually has been making an effort to review content, and has disabled or removed videos, based on some tweets, including Blake Blossom reporting a loss of 40 million views.
Also, some things to consider about the effect of what has happened, based on some of the discussion in this thread: [Tweet is no longer available] An article about the negative impact, which in part says:
[Tweet is no longer available]
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bridge6296 Deactivated User
1041 Posts 8/13
Posted - Dec 13 2020 : 9:27PM
No comment on the yay vs. nay re: you being a dick. Maybe a little comment, I'm going with yay. Moving beyond that, I would love to see you provide something tangible that points to the government.
^^Unless the content models uploaded to PH was significantly more lucrative to them then the kind they can upload to a MV or C4S then I don't see the problem with them losing one platform when they have at least two other that offer the same kind of service.
^ for a guy who doesn't use Facebook and doesn't totally know how it works or who uses it and why, who doesn't apparently use PH and who's not involved in marketing their content, you've got some amazingly strong ideas.
I agree with Pat, I disagree with those pulling for PH so hard. It really feels like they've got a stake in PH and are salty over it's regulation - it and the other tube sites needed reigned in for a long time now, their overall effect a net negative for those who are honest adult entertainment users who purchase and pay for their porn. The whole "the sky is falling" routine, the crocodile tears for PH falls on deaf ears.
There is certainly room for more information and different well-informed points of view. I'm just one. However, I am not seeing much additional information on this thread. Therefore, it is not useful.
This is good place for talking about porn. I'm going to go back to doing that, unless I see any useful new information here.
The moral panic was well overdue. It will be OnlyFans/Manyvids/etc next, no matter how much the "honest adult entertainment users" want to bury their heads in the sand. When credit card companies are cutting off payment to entire sites and verified account holders because of panic over morality and image then it doesn't matter if you were using the service honestly or not.
Paypal has also engaged in corporate moralising over what is a legitimate use of their service, banning sites and users from utilising their product.
There's a general assault on the gig economy emerging among the political and corporate establishment. California went after Uber. Congress is going after streamers on Twitch, Youtube etc. for copyright infringement on behalf of the overzealous establishment entertainment industry. There are reports that the US government intends to regulate cryptocurrency wallets.
There's a growing effort to force new technologies and emerging industries back into the mainstream establishment realm - taxes, unions, regulation, etc. It's all part of the same top down pressure to re-affirm establishment control. Using the media to scare up a moral panic and politicians and corporations to pressurize these industries is just a tactic.
They'll put the screws to Pornhub, then to OnlyFans and Manyvids. They can't have people earning money through unconventional means that can't be endlessly taxed, over-regulated and manipulated by the powers that be.
If I may chime in. What might help a us end users a bit is if there is a way to delineate between PH related threads and non PH ones. We'll use Eva Angelina as an example. If on the off chance Eva returned to porn and was hyping her OF, PH, or other DM avenue, I'd be interested in going right to that thread or link instead of have to do an Eva search and having to wade through 500 threads to find her PH link. Also, if posters where starting to add links, it'd be nice to have all those concentrated versus spread out.
If I read that correctly then basically PH was forced to delete all of the stolen content they were using to make millions and by extension screw the porn industry and will now have to survive with only the legal stuff they have acquired over the last few years and any of the content models upload to their PH verified account. Of course if Visa and MC don't care about these changes and still don't allow PH from using their services then I expect that PH as an entity is dead.
^^ I assume the deletion of stolen content was secondary to the recent exposé alleging publication of underage material and revenge porn. I don't believe for a second that it grew a conscience after years of profiting from copyrighted material being hosted illegally on its platform and screwing over much smaller legitimate rights holders.
I do agree that PH's days are numbered both from deleting what I presume was the vast majority of its viewed content and losing the support of Visa and Mastercard.
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hawki Deactivated User
141 Posts 12/16
Posted - Dec 14 2020 : 10:38PM
Its insane how much control these 2 companies (Visa,MC) have, they decide who gets to do business online and who dont.
^^I agree that deleting their stolen content was secondary but I don't think they had any choice because there is just too much of it and it's very hard and time consuming to verify what is and isn't proper material to keep that deleting it was the safest solution. Not sure if that will even help them with Visa and MC.
I'll bet my next stimulus check that the next category to be taken off will be TEEN, it seems to be the major cause of all this CP and underage performer scare. Mark my words.
^ it's interesting to know that when I compiled the covers of some porn movies, I also stumbled upon the series "Sex With Young Teens" (from New Sensations/Digital Sin). Major roadblocks searching for that phrase (and getting appropriate results) in the major search engines. Now I'm probably on some agency's watchlist simply for searching that...
^ You gotta give it to these anti porn religious groups they know how to play the long game. They already got success when they convinced credit card companies not to support certain legal niches. They will use this made up pedophilia hysteria to justify their ban on teen porn. I mean we live in a society where a 20 yr old finding a 17yr old attractive is deemed as pedophilic but these same religious nuts had no problems with underage marriage 60 yrs ago.
I remember back in late 1996 when all legit VHS !! releases replaced "young" and "school" with "college". "Teen" was never used by itself without "18+" fully notated.
You and Pat362 are more correct about the stolen content having a bigger impact. Traditionally, PH made the bulk of their revenue from ads (recall I mention the dating sites with millionaire owners....where do you think they were spending their advertising dollars?) with more recent focus on building out PH Premium. Losing credit card processing is bad, but they were fine without it before.
I'm certainly glad this happened to Pornhub as a producer. What a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of pirated content on these tubes, looks suspiciously like they were uploaded by internal teams at the tubes. It can be a cat a mouse game sometimes.
But PH cleaning up their act can be a great thing. Youtube survived after they removed most of the long form pirated content, and shift it's focus to content creators. We've been trying for years to convince pornhub to implement badly-needed community and content-creator-focused features. For example, links at the end of videos - youtube has it, porntube has it, but not pornhub. If I shoot a second video of Kyler Quinn for example, I wish I could link to the first video, and vice versa.
Well, if I were the one promoting a new venture on this site, I'd want it to be as easily accessible for people looking for it as possible. I mean a new thread under a PH heading with a title such as "PH Page for Bunny Slippers" would cut right to what I'm looking for instead of page 150 of a thread started 10 years ago.
Recognizing pirated content is tough for the adult industry too. I don't have a detailed sense of that, but I expect there's nowhere near the same level of investment like the RIAA does (and Google does for itself). What's that like in adult these days? As I understand there's still a lot of manual work involved. On YouTube, they'll flip videos to outwit the AI, add unrelated crap to the first couple minutes and things like that. Pain in the ass.
^There are so many tweets that I could have used as rebuttal to most of what Asa wrote about PH but the below tweet pretty much tells me everything I need to know about where she is coming from.
Pornhub is the only big media platform that has human moderators screening every video before publishing - a fact that is highlighted in the data that Facebook has had 84 MILLION cases of Child Sexual Abuse Material reported in the last 3 years, and Pornhub has had 118. Total.
Yeah PH was so efficient at filtering content that they chose to delete at least half of all their videos and now only allow content from verified users which to my mind is basically performers and porn producers. I'm surprised to see the FB crap keep on popping up as though they are in any way similar. Visa and MC can't do anything to Facebook because you don't need a CC to join FB.
Yeah. Even if PH was 99.9% efficient, just 1 video that misses moderation while being heavily scrutinized by the world, could be devastating. The nuclear option was probably best.
Regarding facebook: they accept CC for their ad program. So Visa and MC could have gone after them, but they don't because of the money.
The long and short of it is that any platform which allows for the anonymous upload of pornographic content is a liability disaster waiting to happen. That business model is just not compatible with the spirit of USC 2257. Yes, Section 230 does insulate these companies from legal liability (at least for the moment), but that's not good enough. Porn will always be the target of intense scrutiny, rightly or wrongly, and will always have to contend with moral guardians who would love to see the whole enterprise come crashing down, so it's imperative for the industry to be proactive and self-regulate before that responsibility is taken out of its hands and given to outsiders. (Government regulation of adult material is a very real possibility, and not one which should appeal to anyone who values the First Amendment.) We need to be able to show the rest of the world that we're doing everything in our power to stem the flow of abusive and/or illegal content, and that our efforts actually work. The fundamental failing of the anonymous tube business model is that it can never achieve that goal. There are simply too many uploads each day, and too much content already accumulated on the service, for any reasonable person to expect effective moderation.
This was inevitable.
At the bare minimum, the tube sites should require all contributors to prepare and submit 2257 records with each and every one of their uploads going forward. I can almost guarantee that the vast majority of contributors have not been doing this, which is illegal, and Pornhub has simply been hiding behind their protection from liability under Section 230. That's clearly not good enough, and not only that, it's actively damaging the industry. Anyone who even had a glimmer of hope that 2257 might one day be ruled unconstitutional should just give it up right now. That's not happening. Not after this shitstorm. The only way forward is to embrace it and self-regulate, and doing that effectively will require the sacrifice of the old tube model. (And to that, I think I speak for all of us here when I say, "Good riddance!")
The alternative is to be led blindfolded into even tighter regulation which will be defined without any input from the industry itself. Yes, this is an organized assault on Pornhub from the usual suspects and we shouldn't lose sight of that, because the ulterior motives of those people will always pose an existential threat to this industry, but we have to acknowledge the fact that Pornhub made it easy for them. They failed in their responsibility, both to society in general and to their "partners" in the industry, and are now being justly punished for it.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/16/2020 12:13:55 PM
I'm not an American so my approach to this may be a bit different. I FULLY and COMPLETELY support government intervention in the porn industry. I also FULLY and COMPLETELY support religious morality forming the backbone of a nation's laws.
But, I only support it if it's me in government regulating porn and my religion that forms the morality behind law.
All joking aside, I once had a conversation with someone who did think that religious morality ought to be the basis for civil law. I said I'd strike a deal with him. He got to choose whether or not religion should be part of law and I'd get to choose which religion. That shut him up.
But yeah, more government regulation is precisely not what's needed.
Posted - Dec 12 2020 : 8:35AM
