Porn Hub (page 4)

Author	Post
Sexybynature44 Member 6 Posts 11/19	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 1:15PM evilpineapples wrote: The long and short of it is that any platform which allows for the anonymous upload of pornographic content is a liability disaster waiting to happen. That business model is just not compatible with the spirit of USC 2257. Yes, Section 230 does insulate these companies from legal liability (at least for the moment), but that's not good enough. Porn will always be the target of intense scrutiny, rightly or wrongly, and will always have to contend with moral guardians who would love to see the whole enterprise come crashing down, so it's imperative for the industry to be proactive and self-regulate before that responsibility is taken out of its hands and given to outsiders. (Government regulation of adult material is a very real possibility, and not one which should appeal to anyone who values the First Amendment.) We need to be able to show the rest of the world that we're doing everything in our power to stem the flow of abusive and/or illegal content, and that our efforts actually work. The fundamental failing of the anonymous tube business model is that it can never achieve that goal. There are simply too many uploads each day, and too much content already accumulated on the service, for any reasonable person to expect effective moderation. This was inevitable. At the bare minimum, the tube sites should require all contributors to prepare and submit 2257 records with each and every one of their uploads going forward. I can almost guarantee that the vast majority of contributors have not been doing this, which is illegal, and Pornhub has simply been hiding behind their protection from liability under Section 230. That's clearly not good enough, and not only that, it's actively damaging the industry. Anyone who even had a glimmer of hope that 2257 might one day be ruled unconstitutional should just give it up right now. That's not happening. Not after this shitstorm. The only way forward is to embrace it and self-regulate, and doing that effectively will require the sacrifice of the old tube model. (And to that, I think I speak for all of us here when I say, "Good riddance!") The alternative is to be led blindfolded into even tighter regulation which will be defined without any input from the industry itself. Yes, this is an organized assault on Pornhub from the usual suspects and we shouldn't lose sight of that, because the ulterior motives of those people will always pose an existential threat to this industry, but we have to acknowledge the fact that Pornhub made it easy for them. They failed in their responsibility, both to society in general and to their "partners" in the industry, and are now being justly punished for it. Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/16/2020 12:13:55 PM Click to expand In the name of self regulating do you think the porn industry should raise the performers age to 21 and scrub the TEEN genre to curb down on the whole CP and underage performer hysteria? [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 1:22PM No, I don't think that is necessary, although I'm sure others would disagree with me about that. [Link]
gooch Member 678 Posts 8/20	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 1:45PM ^ I don't believe it's necessary either, the removal of Teen as a category, nor would I be keen on the idea of it either - simply put I would likely to see more 18 & 19 year olds in my adult entertainment and not less. [Link]
rearadmiral All-Star Member 6510 Posts 12/11	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 2:19PM ^ Me too! Besides, it can be hard to tell age. I just posted in the "youngest looking pornstars" thread with a model who was 20 or 21 when the photos were taken and she looks younger than that. I recall years ago reading about a CP criminal case where the prosecution brought in a doctor to review photos and give evidence as to the person's age. I recall that evidence was thrown out. How can you tell by a photo or video if someone is 17 years and 350 days old versus 18 years and one day old or even 20 years old? In many cases you can't. But that's where careful ID checks and record keeping comes in. [Link]

fit18 Member 642 Posts 1/20	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 2:34PM rearadmiral wrote: ^ Me too! Besides, it can be hard to tell age. I just posted in the "youngest looking pornstars" thread with a model who was 20 or 21 when the photos were taken and she looks younger than that. Click to expand Gina Gerson, just shot her last year. Turning 30 soon. Still passes for a teen. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 3:06PM rearadmiral wrote: But that's where careful ID checks and record keeping comes in. Click to expand Exactly, and as long as we have that, I don't think there is any need to implement further restrictions. It would be unjust to prevent legal adults from participating in a legal activity simply because of their age and/or appearance. [Link]
Sexybynature44 Member 6 Posts 11/19	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 7:44PM gooch wrote: ^ I don't believe it's necessary either, the removal of Teen as a category, nor would I be keen on the idea of it either - simply put I would likely to see more 18 & 19 year olds in my adult entertainment and not less. Click to expand I personally got no problem with legal teens exploring their sexuality in film but we live in an age of disinformation and hysteria over young people and sex. We live in a time when a 20yr old dating a 17yr old is seen as pedophilic. The word pedophilia is not being used in its scientific term but rather as a tool to attack whatever you find uncomfortable about sex.We live in such hysteria that any older person dating a younger person is seen as creepy and exploitative, also this comes from all across the political landscape not just the anti porn people. The New York times article mentioned that alot of searches for underage actors included terms like 14yr old teen, twink, barely legal, young teeen and other terms gives people the illusion that people are watching CP on Pornhub when they are not. I feel like eliminating the TEEN category would let people ease up on the pedophilia hysteria. Do I agree with it no but i feel it will at least take the wind of the hysteria because any accusation of pedophilia is always met with the utter most rage from all sides and logic goes out the window. Look I'm a realist. Human beings regardless of how smart we think we are we are still animals. We eat, sleep and fuck just like all other biological entities on earth. Nature says as soon as we hit puberty we are supposed to procreate and as uncomfortable as it is it's the truth. My grandmother got married at 15 to my grandfather who was 10 years her senior, disgusting yes but if you go back 100 years in time this was norm everywhere and was the norm for the most part of humanity until recently. Some cultures still practice underage marriages today. While im thankful we as a society realized that it's better for women and society as a whole, we agreed that its better to bump the age to atleast 18 and above rather than a girls first menustration. I know Im ranting but I'll make my point. Because of humans living longer and the inferntilazion of society, teen sex is becoming increasingly frowned upon. Even though we are inbuilt to be attracted to the young and fertile, maybe it's time for the porn industry to let go of the TEEN genre just like people stopped getting married as soon as they hit puberty. In other words i feel taking away the TEEN genre and bumping the performing age to 21 would be on par with how most people view sex even though personally i don't agree with it. It's better to have some porn than none at all, i feel its a sacrifice worth considering. [Link]
Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 8:46PM We live in an unfortunately sex-unfriendly world. But as long as 18 is the age of emancipation, I think it would be difficult to raise the age limit for porn performing. Something like that could likely go to the Supreme Court, looking at the US. What governments can do more easily however is force age minimums (eg 21+) on production and distribution. Which I think is a distinct possibility. If so, there will of course be smaller channels that circumvent restrictions, but if those grow too big, they'll get clamped down as well. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 11:16PM I can only hope we are very careful about making a distinction between real terms-of-service changes (like those related to record-keeping requirements for uploaders) and reactionary content censorship (like the notion of getting rid of the "teen" category). Whether or not you personally approve of "teen" porn, find it squicky, believe that it promotes inappropriate ideas about underage girls, or whatever else, it should be legally protected as freedom of expression as long as it was produced in full compliance with the law. The reason Pornhub was so vulnerable to this latest, and quite successful, attack is that they were not verifying that their uploaders were in compliance with the law, which unfortunately allowed illegal content to slip through the cracks. If they had merely been using inappropriate tags and that was the worst of it, we would never have seen the extreme over-reaction that we did from the New York Times, Visa, MasterCard, etc. Pornhub absolutely did this to themselves. [Link]
Simple Simon Senior Member 12302 Posts 2/15	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 11:23PM Pornhub sued after allegedly ignoring removal requests for GirlsDoPorn videos [Link]
Sexybynature44 Member 6 Posts 11/19	Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 11:46PM evilpineapples wrote: I can only hope we are very careful about making a distinction between real terms-of-service changes (like those related to record-keeping requirements for uploaders) and reactionary content censorship (like the notion of getting rid of the "teen" category). Whether or not you personally approve of "teen" porn, find it squicky, believe that it promotes inappropriate ideas about underage girls, or whatever else, it should be legally protected as freedom of expression as long as it was produced in full compliance with the law. The reason Pornhub was so vulnerable to this latest, and quite successful, attack is that they were not verifying that their uploaders were in compliance with the law, which unfortunately allowed illegal content to slip through the cracks. If they had merely been using inappropriate tags and that was the worst of it, we would never have seen the extreme over-reaction that we did from the New York Times, Visa, MasterCard, etc. Pornhub absolutely did this to themselves. Click to expand Drinking age was once 18 now it's 21. Smoking age was once 18 now it's 21. Do you see the trend? Like I said I'm a realist who is wiling to accept teenage sexuality and be okay with it but the 21st century society isn't for whatever dubious reason. I think self regulation within the industry is the way to go at least it gives us control, I don't trust the government. We saw what happened with the indecency acts in the 80s. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 12:54AM Raising the age will solve none of the problems being talked about by the pundits and the anti-porn lobbyists. [Link]
Sexybynature44 Member 6 Posts 11/19	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 2:16AM evilpineapples wrote: Raising the age will solve none of the problems being talked about by the pundits and the anti-porn lobbyists. Click to expand I respectfully disagree. The accusations against PH are more about CP and underage performers than unverified accounts. [Link]
Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 7:10AM On the morality side, I wonder whether expression could be curtailed as well...banning certain acts, like in BDSM or whatever, no "virgin" videos etc. In the news, I saw that Twitch, a popular video game social network (sharing videos of people playing video games - super popular) has banned the words "virgin" and "incel" (incel something where the males are upset due to lack of sex). I think the ban is due to cyber bullying, but it just goes to show that bans are easy. Porn doesn't have the $$$ of video games but it has the audience-maybe even a bigger audience. It's easy to turn the screws. [Link]

Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 7:15AM What will porn look like in a post MeToo world where things people do, like [unmentionable], are seen as 100% exploitation and 100% violence regardless of what the situation is and regardless of what the woman's opinion is. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 9:48AM Sexybynature44 wrote: evilpineapples wrote: Raising the age will solve none of the problems being talked about by the pundits and the anti-porn lobbyists. Click to expand I respectfully disagree. The accusations against PH are more about CP and underage performers than unverified accounts. Click to expand An 18 year old is not underage. [Link]
Cruel Agent 07 Member 329 Posts 11/20	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 10:26AM Why has Modelhub blocked all purchases and subscriptions anyone have any idea 💡? [Link]
rearadmiral All-Star Member 6510 Posts 12/11	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:13AM fit18 wrote: Gina Gerson, just shot her last year. Turning 30 soon. Still passes for a teen. Click to expand Good example. I suspect there are 'experts' who would say that based on photos she is, at most, in her late teens. And please take this in the spirit in which it is intended, namely green with envy: you lucky fucker for even being in the same room as Gina! Edited by - rearadmiral on 12/17/2020 11:14:40 AM [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:26AM And that is why we need a system based on facts, not feelings, which actually works and yields the results society demands from it. USC 2257 already exists. Just enforce it. Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/17/2020 11:41:52 AM [Link]
lex von v Senior Member 2511 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 1:01PM ^ What I was saying earlier: If there was a mandatory 2257 submission (of what sort I don't know, because there isn't a central database or registration point for it), only legal (and non-pirated) videos would be able to be uploaded, case closed. No re-uploading of already deleted videos (because you don't have the 2257 for it, so no upload), no revenge porn uploaded (because you don't have the 2257 for it), no kiddie porn (because you don't have the 2257 for it). What about amateur porn, you say? well, isn't it already required for these (in theory) to be 2257 compliant? (they should, in my opinion, because otherwise what about model releases and where do you draw the line with unwanted distribution (a.k.a. revenge porn)). [Link]
snufish Member 580 Posts 4/14	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 1:55PM 2257 is very clear and specific. It doesn't differ between studio made porn and cell phone porn. Only way around 2257 is to not produce any sexual explicit conduct. PH is popular because of stolen porn, no amount of he say, she say can dispute this. They removed over 80% of their videos to get back on cc processor good graces. You can't operate illegally then try to operate legally and think everything will be ok, they must face legal and civil punishment. The feds won't move until they're sure of a conviction. Ignorance of the law isn't a defence, they are 2257 compliant on brazzers and their other paysites but not on their money maker? Because the pirates who upload can't provide 2257. To put movies on hotmovies, AEBN, Adult Empire you must provide your contact info, 2257 information and they look at the video before making it live, they also charge for streaming/downloads. None of these PH does. Stop feeling sorry for them, they're scum. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 2:04PM (I wrote this whole thing and then had to take a phone call before posting it, so most of this is just a re-statement of the points explained by the guy above me. Shit...) 2257 is clear on this point. Any pornographic depiction of actual human beings engaged in actual sex acts is legally required to maintain records in compliance with the steps detailed by 2257, as well as copies of all the proper documentation. There is no special provision for pornographic depictions which are distributed for free, and no legal distinction between "professional" and "amateur" producers, so all amateur videos that have not been keeping records have been violating the law. Draconian? Perhaps, but in light of what's happening now with Pornhub, I doubt it will ever be going away. The tube sites hide behind their liability protection to avoid maintaining records on each and every upload, and they "assume" that the individual uploaders are doing that (which is clearly a pretense because they know 99% of their users aren't even aware of 2257), but that kind of laissez faire attitude will only lead to greater erosion of the industry's freedom in the future. Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/17/2020 2:50:31 PM [Link]
lex von v Senior Member 2511 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 2:25PM ^ "most aren't even aware of 2257"... That reminds me of one "Shameless" episode (in the 8th or 9th season, IIRC), where they showed part of a porn movie on a laptop (nothing HC to see), but that episode at the end had 2257 information. It gave me a chuckle. The others I was watching that with didn't know what that was for... So I must concur that also the audience doesn't know (in most cases). [Link]
fit18 Member 642 Posts 1/20	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 7:19PM Zingerbrook wrote: Porn doesn't have the $$$ of video games but it has the audience-maybe even a bigger audience. It's easy to turn the screws. Click to expand So far zingerbrook's predictions and musings have proven on the nose. Worldwide, porn is maybe a $3 billion/year industry including cams. That's chump change. But zingerbrook is right to say the number of consumers (whether paying or not) is far greater. Can you think of anyone porn doesn't touch? Regarding pornhub's CC issue: this is about more than a few underage videos. VISA is a payment network so losing out on a fraction of the fees is meaningless, but transactions are processed through a bank, and a big bank is going to hurt losing out on $50 million/month in cashflow, considering how the world nearly collapses if overnight interbank lending freezes up for a few hours. Something else might be happening and it's just bad timing. [Link]

pat362 Senior Member 10078 Posts 3/10	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 10:14PM ^Do you know how often the videogame industry has been attacked by various people in the US Government(just last year Trump himself was one of those people) and yet all Major Credit Card companies still happily do business with them? I assume that you have heard at least once that videogames can cause people to get violent and are a reason for mass shooting? It's pure B.S and CC companies know that and therefore keep allowing people to use their service to buy/rent videogames. I don't want to burst your balloon but it's not just a question of dollars because obviously the porn industries money pales when compared to videogame industries but total number of people who enjoy videogame VS porn are also not remotely comparable. [Link]
Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 10:57PM An interesting read: PH in the FT [Link]
snufish Member 580 Posts 4/14	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:30PM Zingerbrook wrote: An interesting read: PH in the FT Click to expand This requires a subscription. is this the story? https://newofgames.com/2020/12/mindgeek-the-secretive-owner-of-pornhub-and-redtube.html Edited by - snufish on 12/18/2020 12:06:35 AM [Link]
shalalin Senior Member 1733 Posts 11/07	Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:50PM fit18 wrote: So far zingerbrook's predictions and musings have proven on the nose. Worldwide, porn is maybe a $3 billion/year industry including cams. That's chump change. But zingerbrook is right to say the number of consumers (whether paying or not) is far greater. Can you think of anyone porn doesn't touch? Regarding pornhub's CC issue: this is about more than a few underage videos. VISA is a payment network so losing out on a fraction of the fees is meaningless, but transactions are processed through a bank, and a big bank is going to hurt losing out on $50 million/month in cashflow, considering how the world nearly collapses if overnight interbank lending freezes up for a few hours. Something else might be happening and it's just bad timing. Click to expand There's a bank that has 20% of the world's porn revenues going through it? [Link]
fit18 Member 642 Posts 1/20	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 12:29AM pat362 wrote: I don't want to burst your balloon but it's not just a question of dollars because obviously the porn industries money pales when compared to videogame industries but total number of people who enjoy videogame VS porn are also not remotely comparable. Click to expand I'm not sure if you are arguing against the point I was making, or supporting it. I believe porn touches everyone, and if we were to compare it to the video game industry, I would argue the total audience size of porn is bigger than video games, even if the dollar amount does not reflect it. While the average age of video game players is increasing, the share declines quickly with age: https://www.statista.com/statistics/189582/age-of-us-video-game-players-since-2010/#:~:text=As%20generations%20have%20grown%20up,are%2065%20years%20and%20older. Meanwhile, you have 100 year old grandpas still watching porn or flipping through playboys. More and more teens are watching porn. They make hip hop videos about porn and starring pornstars. "Kids" nowadays learn about sex through porn. Have you ever been to a bhuddist temple? The abbots have porn stashed all over the place. The pope just got dinged for liking a THOT. Sex is so normal in our lives, but treated like a taboo and porn is the scapegoat. [Link]
fit18 Member 642 Posts 1/20	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 1:06AM Zingerbrook wrote: An interesting read: PH in the FT Click to expand Free version and not garbled translation: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/mindgeek-the-secretive-owner-of-pornhub-and-redtube/ Not a great article at all. Wasting a lot of time as an overview to porn. I can provide some backstory. Fabian built the sales tracking system almost all pornsites use, called NATS. This made him a ton of money and he parlayed that to a site called mydirtyhobby. This is where the article is correct that he got some investors together, and started acquiring various porn properties with the end goal to IPO, much like a playboy or what adultfriendfinder did. The tax thing sidelined him so he had to divest. Interest payments on the debt was racking up so mindgeek did a purge (I think it was codenamed M100) where they stopped acquiring properties and cut staff to improve efficiency. However, their debt load was still quite big. In comes a company based out of Hong Kong called Bright Imperial which owned redtube. Articles at the time stated Mindgeek was acquiring redtube, but supposedly it was the opposite, with Bright Imperial being more well-funded and merging with Mindgeek. This helped Mindgeek get over the hump. Erika Lust makes it sound shady that the owners want to be private, but what's wrong with that? Owning multiple subsidiaries and paying license fees is not unusual. First, it is often done as a tax strategy (certain jurisdictions have lower rates for whether a company is being paid a dividend or a license fee). Secondly, it is done for legal protection to separate billing, from content, from marketing, from the tech, and from affiliate sales. Like someone else pointed out, this is really not that different from what Hollywood does [Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 3:05AM Sexybynature44 wrote: I'll bet my next stimulus check that the next category to be taken off will be TEEN, it seems to be the major cause of all this CP and underage performer scare. Mark my words. Click to expand God I hope so. If you're past your teens and interested in 18 year olds, you're likely interested in 16 year olds. Good riddance to CP Lite. Hopefully incest and incest CP Lite (sex with mommy/daddy videos) go away too. It's annoying seeing that creepy garbage on Adulttime when I just want to see two consenting fairly attractive adults fuck. The end of pornhub will be a good thing. Make it harder to find free stuff so more people have to pay into the creators. Will hopefully lead to a better product on average. This is very good! (Now watch as randoms are right back to uploading rapes on PH as soon as the public forgets about this in two months. ) [Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 3:15AM Sexybynature44 wrote: In the name of self regulating do you think the porn industry should raise the performers age to 21 Click to expand Absolutely. I barely think this should be a question. You shouldn't be able to get out at 2:00pm on the last day of high school and walk on a porn set. Porn wants to be close to paedophilia when it doesn't have to and shouldn't want to. This industry can clean up and still have hot, adult, fully-informed and consented sex. [Link]
AngryPirate Senior Member 3210 Posts 8/17	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 5:41AM Lezzyist wrote: Porn wants to be close to paedophilia when it doesn't have to and shouldn't want to. Click to expand What a blinkered and shamelessly ignorant notion. Porn is many things but it is certainly not a monolithic industry with aspirations of paedophilia. The fact that there are MILF/GILF genres in porn categorically demonstrates that pronouncement to be untrue. [Link]
InstantClassic Senior Member What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 6:40AM I also can't imagine that either the industry or the consumer is flirting with pedophilia. Rather, I am of the opinion that a certain group of consumers want to "catch up" on their unfulfilled youth. I myself had a very normal youth, with the very normal sexual experiences. And I had the crush on teachers...which, of course, nothing came of. That has manifested itself and therefore you look around for what you didn't have. I have no interest in teen porn because I have lived this stage of life and thus it is closed for me....but I had no experience with a big-breasted teacher when I was 15, so this kind of porn fantasy is more appealing to me [Link]

Feet N Ass Senior Member 2249 Posts 12/19	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 2:01PM ^^^ I disagree strongly. If society deems you old enough to vote, get married, drink alcohol (I'm British, you can drink at 18 over here!) or get a tattoo by yourself, then it makes sense that we also deem you able to have sex on camera. Watching 18 year olds have sex is not paedophilia but lets say you're right: I'd much rather the paedophiles watch teen porn than actually go out and molest someone. And there are plenty of 21 year olds who look under 18. I myself only stopped getting ID'd regularly when I grew my beard at about 27. Always feet n ass. In that order. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 2:29PM Lezzyist wrote: If you're past your teens and interested in 18 year olds, you're likely interested in 16 year olds. Good riddance to CP Lite. Click to expand You've got to be joking with this. 18 is the legal age of consent. Are you suggesting that we raise the age of consent? How many more privileges of adulthood are we going to lock away from legal 18-21 year old adults? If I can be forced to take a fucking bullet for my country at the age of 18, I can have sex on camera too. Either leave the age of majority where it is today or raise it across the board, but that's quite enough of this half-measures shit. Stay out of people's bedrooms and stop dictating how they're supposed to live their lives. Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/18/2020 2:33:30 PM [Link]
AngryPirate Senior Member 3210 Posts 8/17	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 3:22PM Lezzyist wrote: If you're past your teens and interested in 18 year olds, you're likely interested in 16 year olds. Click to expand Likely? On what basis? What source or survey result shows that to be probable? I'm not sure the end of your alimentary canal, where I assumed that stat was pulled from, is a credible source. In no shortage of disclaimers is it made clear that the performer is at least 18 years of age and that is the minimum age for the role she portrays in porn. It hardly takes a rocket scientist to deduce that only consenting adults are sought for and portrayed in porn. To explain the distinction between being interested in a consenting adult and a minor is just patronizing. Are you truly this obtuse or are you just shit stirring? [Link]
gooch Member 678 Posts 8/20	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 4:25PM ^ I believe they're shit stirring, frankly. I don't appreciate it either. I daresay there are some industry professionals in this very thread who wouldn't like the accusation, implicit or otherwise, that they're making with such statements.(That's just me surmising, not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.) [Link]
PowerfromHell Deactivated User Pimping & Petty Extortion 71 Posts 12/20	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 9:52PM Zingerbrook wrote: An interesting read: PH in the FT Click to expand Bro... I signed up today because of you...Now serio I do not believe in anything...Atheist Nihilist and dumb as a rock. Wrong so regularly i've abandoned strong beliefs in favor of ideas opinions hypothesis and after this last year I would not be shocked by a zombie apocalypse an extraterrestrial invasion or Meth's ability to cure cancer...I am not into conspiracy alex jonesesque bullshit...But you, Sir are clearly coming from a very singlar worldview and POV unheard of around here...My intuition will pop here & there but with your words its THUMPING- I wish to encourage you to hold forth to spew TMI to lecture and educate to pontificate to be totally and completely wrong about some shit and perhaps even batshit crazy about other shit. Don't shy away as you started to yesterday I don't care if EVERYONE hates what you have to say you can bet plenty of us are cheering you on in our quarantines feverish with cabin fever wishing to learn more & understand further...So please Bro Speak the truth your truth and kick out the motherfucking JAMS! https://youtu.be/4C2ogEmZP2E Over n out- [Link]
Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 9:58PM ^ I can't tell if you're serious or joking. I'm going to guess the latter. It's an "interesting read". I didn't say it was monumental. It's the FT for crying out loud. Did I enjoy reading it over coffee at Starbucks? Yeah. Sheesh [Link]
Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 10:14PM I suppose you all saw the latest news, some dumb ass senators proposing massive regulation of adult websites. Lots of proposals die in congress, but I sense that this might not be one of them. And what I wrote about the US and other countries erecting an Internet 'wall' somewhat similar to China's... Been reading about the massive breaches-in government and at crown jewel massive Fortune XX companies, done by a foreign (state) actor? That's why a wall is not a bad idea. But with said wall, it's pretty easy to block or severely limit access to porn outside domestic borders. That's a plan. By my estimation, it's a ways off, and a lot of things could happen in the meanwhile. But, as they say, directionally it sucks. [Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 12:11AM This is so uncomplicated and matter of fact and cut and dry. The only thing that should fuck a teen is a teen. And even that's harsh to say in that, ideally most 15-16 year old kids wouldn't fuck just yet but of course it's gonna happen, so "should" is a funny word on my part, but you catch my drift. The whole "teen" thing is about how young they are or appear to be and yet there is noooo flirting with paedophilia? That doesn't even sound true. I probably wouldn't bother to push to make the porn age limit 21, but if there was considerable will from a bunch other people I obviously wouldn't fight against it at all either. 16 year old people are going to choose to fuck too. That doesn't mean some damned fools well past their teens should sell them on the idea of fucking in front of people or fucking people well past their teens. 18 isn't a much of a leap from 16, as I can tell some of yall are acutely aware. Porn Hub needs to go and there's a few other things that need to go too. Porn doesn't have to mean skeevy or creepers or schemers or old folks trying to fuck teenagers. That's just flat out obvious. No reason folks should be creeping the high schoolers. NONE. You wanna get religious people, or ya know, just sensible non-religious people who like the idea of only fucking adults to get mad about porn? Pretend the "wanting to fuck high schoolers" thing isn't weird for anyone but high schoolers. The hell is wrong with, idk, 24 year olds? Oh wait, those are MILFS now. But there's no flirting with pedophilia? Yeah ok. If I would eat a twinkie, I would probably eat a cake. That teen mess, along with the "parent fucking their (step)-daughter" mess is just people with bad intentions making a case for anti-porn folks where there shouldn't be one. It's just like...hey...that's dumb...stop doing that. You're asking to be shut down. 20+ is not old anyway so we know it's just a thrill of how "they were a kid just yesterday". Or that's certainly how it would be perceived by just about anyone. Ask the creepy guy hanging at the high school and he'll probably tell you he's only there to fuck the ones that are 18. Last thing: if there REALLY isn't a problem, if everything is ostensibly above board, what's the difference between "barely legal" porn and "teen" porn, and what does "barely legal" refer to if not "almost kiddy"? Edited by - Lezzyist on 12/19/2020 12:37:33 AM [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 12:34AM Well, this thread has certainly gone off the rails. [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 1:24AM Lezzyist wrote: The whole "teen" thing is about how young they are or appear to be and yet there is noooo flirting with paedophilia? That doesn't even sound true. Click to expand Ahh, there you go with appearances again. So should someone like Gina Gerson, a 30 year old who some people would say looks closer to 18 (which is itself a subjective assessment based on no measurable standard) be barred from shooting porn? She's well above your age cut-off, but she looks younger than her age, according to some people, so is that just too bad for her? She just has to be banned from working in porn ever again in deference to the public welfare? 16 year old people are going to choose to fuck too. That doesn't mean some damned fools well past their teens should sell them on the idea of fucking in front of people or fucking people well past their teens. 18 isn't a much of a leap from 16, as I can tell some of yall are acutely aware. Click to expand 21 isn't much of a leap from 18. 24 isn't much of a leap from 21. Where do you draw the line? Where does it end? 16 year olds are not adults. 18 year old are adults. That's the difference and that's where the line is drawn. This is really not complicated. Porn doesn't have to mean skeevy or creepers or schemers or old folks trying to fuck teenagers. That's just flat out obvious. Click to expand Oh, it is? So who gets to define that limit? The general public? Congress? Local community standards? You? If you were ultra-religious, you could just as well have said something along the lines of, "Sex doesn't have to mean skeevy or creepers or schemers or pornographers trying to film people having sex. That's just flat out obvious." Or is it? See how that works? Opinions are like assholes: Everybody has one and nobody wants to see yours. That's why we have an age of majority, which in my country is 18. It's a somewhat arbitrary dividing line, but it's there for a very good reason. See, as long as you're at or above the age of majority, you get to do whatever you want within the bounds of the law. That's how the rules work. Nobody should have the right to impose further limitations based on their personal standards of "skeeviness". 20+ is not old anyway so we know it's just a thrill of how "they were a kid just yesterday". Or that's certainly how it would be perceived by just about anyone. Click to expand That's a big assumption based on nothing. I'll throw you a bone and concede that many studios have chosen to market the content in their "teen" categories in a manner that I find distasteful as well. Anything touching upon the "barely legal" theme, emphasizing the age of the performer for dramatic effect, does not sit well with me. Schoolgirl costumes have the same impact. The stuff Max Hardcore used to shoot (which landed him in federal prison) was all of that and more, on steroids, and I never liked it. To me, the stuff he shot is exactly what you were trying to define in your post, and it disgusted me. But you know what? Freedom of expression is a precious thing, and it's fragile too, because it only exists as long as we all collectively uphold it. That means we have to allow the expression of ideas that we may find distasteful, in order that our own ideas which may in turn be found distasteful by others may also be expressed. As long as all of the performers in a given production have been verified as willing adult participants, then nobody has the right to interfere with their activities as far as I am concerned. I understand your points and concerns, but this is a waste of time. If you're concerned about child abuse, then you should focus your energy and resources toward combating actual child abuse. There's far too much of that going on in the world and it needs to be stopped, and if you're concerned specifically about kids being influenced by porn, then maybe you should focus on campaigning for stricter age-gating laws so that kids aren't able to access porn at the touch of a button when they're fucking 12. Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/19/2020 1:50:29 AM [Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 2:17AM You wrote alot only to not circumvent my point at all: We know 16 year olds are off limits. But hey 18 year olds are pretty close! Score! Simple, matter-of-factly speaking, it's about being as close to you can get to depicting kid-diddling without actually doing it. Let me applaud that restraint right quick. Smh As I said, porn WANTS to be close to pedophilia. It doesn't have to be. If you tell me Gina Gerson is 18, you are doing it for a reason. There is a certain line that you are trying to approach as close as you can. How about this? For fun, let's pretend we were all born yesterday. What's the teen creeping about if it's not about teen creeping? What's the "true" reason for it that I am corrupting and misrepresenting g with my lil forum post? As for gate-keeping against kid viewers, absolutely. Age-verification before being allowed to see content wouldn't hurt anyone. People can call faux CP what it is AND call for other positive changes in the industry too. Commentary one thing does not prevent commentary on the other. Edited by - Lezzyist on 12/19/2020 2:20:15 AM [Link]
evilpineapples Member ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL! 705 Posts 6/13	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 2:31AM Raising the age of consent would only move the goalposts. 21 year olds would become the new "pretty close", or "barely legal", age group. Again, I understand the point you are making, but an 18 year old is a legal adult. That is where our society has chosen to draw the line. Your personal feelings of "skeeviness" are not relevant. I do see your point about the marketing, but the solution is not to change the age of consent. (In your case, though, you're only arguing for a change to the age of consent for this one specific activity, namely the right to shoot porn, which is yet another "soft reboot" of the age of consent following earlier changes to the minimum legal age to purchase alcohol and tobacco products.) [Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 2:56AM Ok awesome. If folks force the age limit up to 21, then it's no longer people "pretending" to prey on teens. Dope. "Introducing Girl NameXXX! Just turned 21! Today!" Sounds good to me. Edited by - Lezzyist on 12/19/2020 2:59:01 AM [Link]
AngryPirate Senior Member 3210 Posts 8/17	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 5:54AM Lezzyist wrote: As I said, porn WANTS to be close to pedophilia. Click to expand You can keep saying that nonsense until you go blue in the face but it will still not make your opinion fact. Is there a particular reason why you have skirted around the fact that MILF/GILF porn exists? Could you do a mere mortal a favour and explain how the MILF/GILF genre as one example shows how porn has aspirations of cutting close to the bone with regards to paedophilia? [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 6:28AM Yeah, this thread has become useless and has almost nothing to do with PorhHub at this point. Time to close this bullshit down. [Link]

Author

Post

Sexybynature44
Member

6 Posts
11/19

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 1:15PM

evilpineapples wrote:
The long and short of it is that any platform which allows for the anonymous upload of pornographic content is a liability disaster waiting to happen. That business model is just not compatible with the spirit of USC 2257. Yes, Section 230 does insulate these companies from legal liability (at least for the moment), but that's not good enough. Porn will always be the target of intense scrutiny, rightly or wrongly, and will always have to contend with moral guardians who would love to see the whole enterprise come crashing down, so it's imperative for the industry to be proactive and self-regulate before that responsibility is taken out of its hands and given to outsiders. (Government regulation of adult material is a very real possibility, and not one which should appeal to anyone who values the First Amendment.) We need to be able to show the rest of the world that we're doing everything in our power to stem the flow of abusive and/or illegal content, and that our efforts actually work. The fundamental failing of the anonymous tube business model is that it can never achieve that goal. There are simply too many uploads each day, and too much content already accumulated on the service, for any reasonable person to expect effective moderation.
This was inevitable.
At the bare minimum, the tube sites should require all contributors to prepare and submit 2257 records with each and every one of their uploads going forward. I can almost guarantee that the vast majority of contributors have not been doing this, which is illegal, and Pornhub has simply been hiding behind their protection from liability under Section 230. That's clearly not good enough, and not only that, it's actively damaging the industry. Anyone who even had a glimmer of hope that 2257 might one day be ruled unconstitutional should just give it up right now. That's not happening. Not after this shitstorm. The only way forward is to embrace it and self-regulate, and doing that effectively will require the sacrifice of the old tube model. (And to that, I think I speak for all of us here when I say, "Good riddance!")
The alternative is to be led blindfolded into even tighter regulation which will be defined without any input from the industry itself. Yes, this is an organized assault on Pornhub from the usual suspects and we shouldn't lose sight of that, because the ulterior motives of those people will always pose an existential threat to this industry, but we have to acknowledge the fact that Pornhub made it easy for them. They failed in their responsibility, both to society in general and to their "partners" in the industry, and are now being justly punished for it.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/16/2020 12:13:55 PM
Click to expand

In the name of self regulating do you think the porn industry should raise the performers age to 21 and scrub the TEEN genre to curb down on the whole CP and underage performer hysteria?

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 1:22PM

No, I don't think that is necessary, although I'm sure others would disagree with me about that.

[Link]

gooch
Member

678 Posts
8/20

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 1:45PM

^ I don't believe it's necessary either, the removal of Teen as a category, nor would I be keen on the idea of it either - simply put I would likely to see more 18 & 19 year olds in my adult entertainment and not less.

[Link]

rearadmiral

All-Star Member

6510 Posts
12/11

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 2:19PM

^ Me too! Besides, it can be hard to tell age. I just posted in the "youngest looking pornstars" thread with a model who was 20 or 21 when the photos were taken and she looks younger than that.

I recall years ago reading about a CP criminal case where the prosecution brought in a doctor to review photos and give evidence as to the person's age. I recall that evidence was thrown out. How can you tell by a photo or video if someone is 17 years and 350 days old versus 18 years and one day old or even 20 years old? In many cases you can't. But that's where careful ID checks and record keeping comes in.

[Link]

fit18
Member

642 Posts
1/20

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 2:34PM

Gina Gerson, just shot her last year. Turning 30 soon. Still passes for a teen.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 3:06PM

Exactly, and as long as we have that, I don't think there is any need to implement further restrictions. It would be unjust to prevent legal adults from participating in a legal activity simply because of their age and/or appearance.

[Link]

Sexybynature44
Member

6 Posts
11/19

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 7:44PM

I personally got no problem with legal teens exploring their sexuality in film but we live in an age of disinformation and hysteria over young people and sex. We live in a time when a 20yr old dating a 17yr old is seen as pedophilic. The word pedophilia is not being used in its scientific term but rather as a tool to attack whatever you find uncomfortable about sex.We live in such hysteria that any older person dating a younger person is seen as creepy and exploitative, also this comes from all across the political landscape not just the anti porn people.
The New York times article mentioned that alot of searches for underage actors included terms like 14yr old teen, twink, barely legal, young teeen and other terms gives people the illusion that people are watching CP on Pornhub when they are not. I feel like eliminating the TEEN category would let people ease up on the pedophilia hysteria. Do I agree with it no but i feel it will at least take the wind of the hysteria because any accusation of pedophilia is always met with the utter most rage from all sides and logic goes out the window.
Look I'm a realist. Human beings regardless of how smart we think we are we are still animals. We eat, sleep and fuck just like all other biological entities on earth. Nature says as soon as we hit puberty we are supposed to procreate and as uncomfortable as it is it's the truth. My grandmother got married at 15 to my grandfather who was 10 years her senior, disgusting yes but if you go back 100 years in time this was norm everywhere and was the norm for the most part of humanity until recently. Some cultures still practice underage marriages today. While im thankful we as a society realized that it's better for women and society as a whole, we agreed that its better to bump the age to atleast 18 and above rather than a girls first menustration.
I know Im ranting but I'll make my point. Because of humans living longer and the inferntilazion of society, teen sex is becoming increasingly frowned upon. Even though we are inbuilt to be attracted to the young and fertile, maybe it's time for the porn industry to let go of the TEEN genre just like people stopped getting married as soon as they hit puberty. In other words i feel taking away the TEEN genre and bumping the performing age to 21 would be on par with how most people view sex even though personally i don't agree with it. It's better to have some porn than none at all, i feel its a sacrifice worth considering.

[Link]

Zingerbrook
Member

580 Posts
3/17

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 8:46PM

We live in an unfortunately sex-unfriendly world. But as long as 18 is the age of emancipation, I think it would be difficult to raise the age limit for porn performing. Something like that could likely go to the Supreme Court, looking at the US. What governments can do more easily however is force age minimums (eg 21+) on production and distribution. Which I think is a distinct possibility. If so, there will of course be smaller channels that circumvent restrictions, but if those grow too big, they'll get clamped down as well.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 11:16PM

I can only hope we are very careful about making a distinction between real terms-of-service changes (like those related to record-keeping requirements for uploaders) and reactionary content censorship (like the notion of getting rid of the "teen" category).

Whether or not you personally approve of "teen" porn, find it squicky, believe that it promotes inappropriate ideas about underage girls, or whatever else, it should be legally protected as freedom of expression as long as it was produced in full compliance with the law. The reason Pornhub was so vulnerable to this latest, and quite successful, attack is that they were not verifying that their uploaders were in compliance with the law, which unfortunately allowed illegal content to slip through the cracks. If they had merely been using inappropriate tags and that was the worst of it, we would never have seen the extreme over-reaction that we did from the New York Times, Visa, MasterCard, etc.

Pornhub absolutely did this to themselves.

[Link]

Simple Simon
Senior Member

12302 Posts
2/15

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 11:23PM

Pornhub sued after allegedly ignoring removal requests for GirlsDoPorn videos

[Link]

Sexybynature44
Member

6 Posts
11/19

Posted - Dec 16 2020 : 11:46PM

evilpineapples wrote:
I can only hope we are very careful about making a distinction between real terms-of-service changes (like those related to record-keeping requirements for uploaders) and reactionary content censorship (like the notion of getting rid of the "teen" category).
Whether or not you personally approve of "teen" porn, find it squicky, believe that it promotes inappropriate ideas about underage girls, or whatever else, it should be legally protected as freedom of expression as long as it was produced in full compliance with the law. The reason Pornhub was so vulnerable to this latest, and quite successful, attack is that they were not verifying that their uploaders were in compliance with the law, which unfortunately allowed illegal content to slip through the cracks. If they had merely been using inappropriate tags and that was the worst of it, we would never have seen the extreme over-reaction that we did from the New York Times, Visa, MasterCard, etc.
Pornhub absolutely did this to themselves.
Click to expand

Drinking age was once 18 now it's 21. Smoking age was once 18 now it's 21. Do you see the trend? Like I said I'm a realist who is wiling to accept teenage sexuality and be okay with it but the 21st century society isn't for whatever dubious reason. I think self regulation within the industry is the way to go at least it gives us control, I don't trust the government. We saw what happened with the indecency acts in the 80s.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 12:54AM

Raising the age will solve none of the problems being talked about by the pundits and the anti-porn lobbyists.

[Link]

Sexybynature44
Member

6 Posts
11/19

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 2:16AM

I respectfully disagree. The accusations against PH are more about CP and underage performers than unverified accounts.

[Link]

Zingerbrook
Member

580 Posts
3/17

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 7:10AM

On the morality side, I wonder whether expression could be curtailed as well...banning certain acts, like in BDSM or whatever, no "virgin" videos etc.

In the news, I saw that Twitch, a popular video game social network (sharing videos of people playing video games - super popular) has banned the words "virgin" and "incel" (incel something where the males are upset due to lack of sex). I think the ban is due to cyber bullying, but it just goes to show that bans are easy.

Porn doesn't have the $$$ of video games but it has the audience-maybe even a bigger audience. It's easy to turn the screws.

[Link]

Zingerbrook
Member

580 Posts
3/17

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 7:15AM

What will porn look like in a post MeToo world where things people do, like [unmentionable], are seen as 100% exploitation and 100% violence regardless of what the situation is and regardless of what the woman's opinion is.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 9:48AM

An 18 year old is not underage.

[Link]

Cruel Agent 07
Member

329 Posts
11/20

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 10:26AM

Why has Modelhub blocked all purchases and subscriptions anyone have any idea 💡?

[Link]

rearadmiral

All-Star Member

6510 Posts
12/11

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:13AM

Good example. I suspect there are 'experts' who would say that based on photos she is, at most, in her late teens.

And please take this in the spirit in which it is intended, namely green with envy: you lucky fucker for even being in the same room as Gina!

Edited by - rearadmiral on 12/17/2020 11:14:40 AM

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:26AM

And that is why we need a system based on facts, not feelings, which actually works and yields the results society demands from it.

USC 2257 already exists. Just enforce it.

Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/17/2020 11:41:52 AM

[Link]

lex von v
Senior Member

2511 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 1:01PM

^ What I was saying earlier: If there was a mandatory 2257 submission (of what sort I don't know, because there isn't a central database or registration point for it), only legal (and non-pirated) videos would be able to be uploaded, case closed. No re-uploading of already deleted videos (because you don't have the 2257 for it, so no upload), no revenge porn uploaded (because you don't have the 2257 for it), no kiddie porn (because you don't have the 2257 for it).

What about amateur porn, you say? well, isn't it already required for these (in theory) to be 2257 compliant? (they should, in my opinion, because otherwise what about model releases and where do you draw the line with unwanted distribution (a.k.a. revenge porn)).

[Link]

snufish
Member

580 Posts
4/14

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 1:55PM

2257 is very clear and specific. It doesn't differ between studio made porn and cell phone porn. Only way around 2257 is to not produce any sexual explicit conduct. PH is popular because of stolen porn, no amount of he say, she say can dispute this. They removed over 80% of their videos to get back on cc processor good graces. You can't operate illegally then try to operate legally and think everything will be ok, they must face legal and civil punishment. The feds won't move until they're sure of a conviction. Ignorance of the law isn't a defence, they are 2257 compliant on brazzers and their other paysites but not on their money maker? Because the pirates who upload can't provide 2257.

To put movies on hotmovies, AEBN, Adult Empire you must provide your contact info, 2257 information and they look at the video before making it live, they also charge for streaming/downloads. None of these PH does. Stop feeling sorry for them, they're scum.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 2:04PM

(I wrote this whole thing and then had to take a phone call before posting it, so most of this is just a re-statement of the points explained by the guy above me. Shit...)

2257 is clear on this point. Any pornographic depiction of actual human beings engaged in actual sex acts is legally required to maintain records in compliance with the steps detailed by 2257, as well as copies of all the proper documentation. There is no special provision for pornographic depictions which are distributed for free, and no legal distinction between "professional" and "amateur" producers, so all amateur videos that have not been keeping records have been violating the law.

Draconian? Perhaps, but in light of what's happening now with Pornhub, I doubt it will ever be going away. The tube sites hide behind their liability protection to avoid maintaining records on each and every upload, and they "assume" that the individual uploaders are doing that (which is clearly a pretense because they know 99% of their users aren't even aware of 2257), but that kind of laissez faire attitude will only lead to greater erosion of the industry's freedom in the future.

Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/17/2020 2:50:31 PM

[Link]

lex von v
Senior Member

2511 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 2:25PM

^ "most aren't even aware of 2257"... That reminds me of one "Shameless" episode (in the 8th or 9th season, IIRC), where they showed part of a porn movie on a laptop (nothing HC to see), but that episode at the end had 2257 information. It gave me a chuckle. The others I was watching that with didn't know what that was for... So I must concur that also the audience doesn't know (in most cases).

[Link]

fit18
Member

642 Posts
1/20

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 7:19PM

So far zingerbrook's predictions and musings have proven on the nose. Worldwide, porn is maybe a $3 billion/year industry including cams. That's chump change. But zingerbrook is right to say the number of consumers (whether paying or not) is far greater. Can you think of anyone porn doesn't touch?

Regarding pornhub's CC issue: this is about more than a few underage videos. VISA is a payment network so losing out on a fraction of the fees is meaningless, but transactions are processed through a bank, and a big bank is going to hurt losing out on $50 million/month in cashflow, considering how the world nearly collapses if overnight interbank lending freezes up for a few hours. Something else might be happening and it's just bad timing.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10078 Posts
3/10

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 10:14PM

^Do you know how often the videogame industry has been attacked by various people in the US Government(just last year Trump himself was one of those people) and yet all Major Credit Card companies still happily do business with them? I assume that you have heard at least once that videogames can cause people to get violent and are a reason for mass shooting? It's pure B.S and CC companies know that and therefore keep allowing people to use their service to buy/rent videogames.

I don't want to burst your balloon but it's not just a question of dollars because obviously the porn industries money pales when compared to videogame industries but total number of people who enjoy videogame VS porn are also not remotely comparable.

[Link]

Zingerbrook
Member

580 Posts
3/17

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 10:57PM

An interesting read:

PH in the FT

[Link]

snufish
Member

580 Posts
4/14

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:30PM

This requires a subscription.

is this the story?
https://newofgames.com/2020/12/mindgeek-the-secretive-owner-of-pornhub-and-redtube.html

Edited by - snufish on 12/18/2020 12:06:35 AM

[Link]

shalalin
Senior Member

1733 Posts
11/07

Posted - Dec 17 2020 : 11:50PM

There's a bank that has 20% of the world's porn revenues going through it?

[Link]

fit18
Member

642 Posts
1/20

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 12:29AM

I'm not sure if you are arguing against the point I was making, or supporting it. I believe porn touches everyone, and if we were to compare it to the video game industry, I would argue the total audience size of porn is bigger than video games, even if the dollar amount does not reflect it.

While the average age of video game players is increasing, the share declines quickly with age:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/189582/age-of-us-video-game-players-since-2010/#:~:text=As%20generations%20have%20grown%20up,are%2065%20years%20and%20older.

Meanwhile, you have 100 year old grandpas still watching porn or flipping through playboys. More and more teens are watching porn. They make hip hop videos about porn and starring pornstars. "Kids" nowadays learn about sex through porn. Have you ever been to a bhuddist temple? The abbots have porn stashed all over the place. The pope just got dinged for liking a THOT. Sex is so normal in our lives, but treated like a taboo and porn is the scapegoat.

[Link]

fit18
Member

642 Posts
1/20

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 1:06AM

Free version and not garbled translation:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/mindgeek-the-secretive-owner-of-pornhub-and-redtube/

Not a great article at all. Wasting a lot of time as an overview to porn. I can provide some backstory.

Fabian built the sales tracking system almost all pornsites use, called NATS. This made him a ton of money and he parlayed that to a site called mydirtyhobby.

This is where the article is correct that he got some investors together, and started acquiring various porn properties with the end goal to IPO, much like a playboy or what adultfriendfinder did. The tax thing sidelined him so he had to divest.

Interest payments on the debt was racking up so mindgeek did a purge (I think it was codenamed M100) where they stopped acquiring properties and cut staff to improve efficiency. However, their debt load was still quite big. In comes a company based out of Hong Kong called Bright Imperial which owned redtube. Articles at the time stated Mindgeek was acquiring redtube, but supposedly it was the opposite, with Bright Imperial being more well-funded and merging with Mindgeek. This helped Mindgeek get over the hump.

Erika Lust makes it sound shady that the owners want to be private, but what's wrong with that?

Owning multiple subsidiaries and paying license fees is not unusual. First, it is often done as a tax strategy (certain jurisdictions have lower rates for whether a company is being paid a dividend or a license fee). Secondly, it is done for legal protection to separate billing, from content, from marketing, from the tech, and from affiliate sales. Like someone else pointed out, this is really not that different from what Hollywood does

[Link]

Lezzyist
Deactivated User

Make Porn Erotic Again
1736 Posts
9/19

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 3:05AM

God I hope so. If you're past your teens and interested in 18 year olds, you're likely interested in 16 year olds. Good riddance to CP Lite.

Hopefully incest and incest CP Lite (sex with mommy/daddy videos) go away too. It's annoying seeing that creepy garbage on Adulttime when I just want to see two consenting fairly attractive adults fuck.

The end of pornhub will be a good thing. Make it harder to find free stuff so more people have to pay into the creators. Will hopefully lead to a better product on average.

This is very good!

(Now watch as randoms are right back to uploading rapes on PH as soon as the public forgets about this in two months. )

[Link]

Lezzyist
Deactivated User

Make Porn Erotic Again
1736 Posts
9/19

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 3:15AM

Absolutely. I barely think this should be a question. You shouldn't be able to get out at 2:00pm on the last day of high school and walk on a porn set.

Porn wants to be close to paedophilia when it doesn't have to and shouldn't want to.

This industry can clean up and still have hot, adult, fully-informed and consented sex.

[Link]

AngryPirate
Senior Member

3210 Posts
8/17

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 5:41AM

What a blinkered and shamelessly ignorant notion. Porn is many things but it is certainly not a monolithic industry with aspirations of paedophilia.

The fact that there are MILF/GILF genres in porn categorically demonstrates that pronouncement to be untrue.

[Link]

InstantClassic
Senior Member

What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy?
2966 Posts
5/10

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 6:40AM

I also can't imagine that either the industry or the consumer is flirting with pedophilia. Rather, I am of the opinion that a certain group of consumers want to "catch up" on their unfulfilled youth. I myself had a very normal youth, with the very normal sexual experiences. And I had the crush on teachers...which, of course, nothing came of. That has manifested itself and therefore you look around for what you didn't have. I have no interest in teen porn because I have lived this stage of life and thus it is closed for me....but I had no experience with a big-breasted teacher when I was 15, so this kind of porn fantasy is more appealing to me

[Link]

Feet N Ass
Senior Member

2249 Posts
12/19

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 2:01PM

^^^ I disagree strongly. If society deems you old enough to vote, get married, drink alcohol (I'm British, you can drink at 18 over here!) or get a tattoo by yourself, then it makes sense that we also deem you able to have sex on camera. Watching 18 year olds have sex is not paedophilia but lets say you're right: I'd much rather the paedophiles watch teen porn than actually go out and molest someone. And there are plenty of 21 year olds who look under 18. I myself only stopped getting ID'd regularly when I grew my beard at about 27.

Always feet n ass. In that order.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 2:29PM

You've got to be joking with this.

18 is the legal age of consent. Are you suggesting that we raise the age of consent? How many more privileges of adulthood are we going to lock away from legal 18-21 year old adults? If I can be forced to take a fucking bullet for my country at the age of 18, I can have sex on camera too. Either leave the age of majority where it is today or raise it across the board, but that's quite enough of this half-measures shit. Stay out of people's bedrooms and stop dictating how they're supposed to live their lives.

Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/18/2020 2:33:30 PM

[Link]

AngryPirate
Senior Member

3210 Posts
8/17

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 3:22PM

Likely? On what basis? What source or survey result shows that to be probable? I'm not sure the end of your alimentary canal, where I assumed that stat was pulled from, is a credible source.

In no shortage of disclaimers is it made clear that the performer is at least 18 years of age and that is the minimum age for the role she portrays in porn. It hardly takes a rocket scientist to deduce that only consenting adults are sought for and portrayed in porn.

To explain the distinction between being interested in a consenting adult and a minor is just patronizing. Are you truly this obtuse or are you just shit stirring?

[Link]

gooch
Member

678 Posts
8/20

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 4:25PM

^ I believe they're shit stirring, frankly. I don't appreciate it either. I daresay there are some industry professionals in this very thread who wouldn't like the accusation, implicit or otherwise, that they're making with such statements.(That's just me surmising, not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.)

[Link]

PowerfromHell
Deactivated User

Pimping & Petty Extortion
71 Posts
12/20

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 9:52PM

Bro...

I signed up today because of you...Now serio I do not believe in anything...Atheist Nihilist and dumb as a rock. Wrong so regularly i've abandoned strong beliefs in favor of ideas opinions hypothesis and after this last year I would not be shocked by a zombie apocalypse an extraterrestrial invasion or Meth's ability to cure cancer...I am not into conspiracy alex jonesesque bullshit...But you, Sir are clearly coming from a very singlar worldview and POV unheard of around here...My intuition will pop here & there but with your words its THUMPING- I wish to encourage you to hold forth to spew TMI to lecture and educate to pontificate to be totally and completely wrong about some shit and perhaps even batshit crazy about other shit. Don't shy away as you started to yesterday I don't care if EVERYONE hates what you have to say you can bet plenty of us are cheering you on in our quarantines feverish with cabin fever wishing to learn more & understand further...So please Bro Speak the truth your truth and kick out the motherfucking JAMS! https://youtu.be/4C2ogEmZP2E

Over n out-

[Link]

Zingerbrook
Member

580 Posts
3/17

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 9:58PM

^ I can't tell if you're serious or joking. I'm going to guess the latter. It's an "interesting read". I didn't say it was monumental. It's the FT for crying out loud. Did I enjoy reading it over coffee at Starbucks? Yeah.

Sheesh

[Link]

Zingerbrook
Member

580 Posts
3/17

Posted - Dec 18 2020 : 10:14PM

I suppose you all saw the latest news, some dumb ass senators proposing massive regulation of adult websites. Lots of proposals die in congress, but I sense that this might not be one of them.

And what I wrote about the US and other countries erecting an Internet 'wall' somewhat similar to China's... Been reading about the massive breaches-in government and at crown jewel massive Fortune XX companies, done by a foreign (state) actor? That's why a wall is not a bad idea. But with said wall, it's pretty easy to block or severely limit access to porn outside domestic borders. That's a plan. By my estimation, it's a ways off, and a lot of things could happen in the meanwhile. But, as they say, directionally it sucks.

[Link]

Lezzyist
Deactivated User

Make Porn Erotic Again
1736 Posts
9/19

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 12:11AM

This is so uncomplicated and matter of fact and cut and dry. The only thing that should fuck a teen is a teen. And even that's harsh to say in that, ideally most 15-16 year old kids wouldn't fuck just yet but of course it's gonna happen, so "should" is a funny word on my part, but you catch my drift.

The whole "teen" thing is about how young they are or appear to be and yet there is noooo flirting with paedophilia? That doesn't even sound true.

I probably wouldn't bother to push to make the porn age limit 21, but if there was considerable will from a bunch other people I obviously wouldn't fight against it at all either.

16 year old people are going to choose to fuck too. That doesn't mean some damned fools well past their teens should sell them on the idea of fucking in front of people or fucking people well past their teens. 18 isn't a much of a leap from 16, as I can tell some of yall are acutely aware.

Porn Hub needs to go and there's a few other things that need to go too.

Porn doesn't have to mean skeevy or creepers or schemers or old folks trying to fuck teenagers. That's just flat out obvious.

No reason folks should be creeping the high schoolers. NONE.

You wanna get religious people, or ya know, just sensible non-religious people who like the idea of only fucking adults to get mad about porn? Pretend the "wanting to fuck high schoolers" thing isn't weird for anyone but high schoolers.

The hell is wrong with, idk, 24 year olds? Oh wait, those are MILFS now.

But there's no flirting with pedophilia? Yeah ok.

If I would eat a twinkie, I would probably eat a cake.

That teen mess, along with the "parent fucking their (step)-daughter" mess is just people with bad intentions making a case for anti-porn folks where there shouldn't be one.

It's just like...hey...that's dumb...stop doing that. You're asking to be shut down.

20+ is not old anyway so we know it's just a thrill of how "they were a kid just yesterday". Or that's certainly how it would be perceived by just about anyone.

Ask the creepy guy hanging at the high school and he'll probably tell you he's only there to fuck the ones that are 18.

Last thing: if there REALLY isn't a problem, if everything is ostensibly above board, what's the difference between "barely legal" porn and "teen" porn, and what does "barely legal" refer to if not "almost kiddy"?

Edited by - Lezzyist on 12/19/2020 12:37:33 AM

[Link]

Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 12:34AM

Well, this thread has certainly gone off the rails.

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 1:24AM

Ahh, there you go with appearances again. So should someone like Gina Gerson, a 30 year old who some people would say looks closer to 18 (which is itself a subjective assessment based on no measurable standard) be barred from shooting porn? She's well above your age cut-off, but she looks younger than her age, according to some people, so is that just too bad for her? She just has to be banned from working in porn ever again in deference to the public welfare?

21 isn't much of a leap from 18. 24 isn't much of a leap from 21. Where do you draw the line? Where does it end?

16 year olds are not adults. 18 year old are adults. That's the difference and that's where the line is drawn. This is really not complicated.

Oh, it is? So who gets to define that limit? The general public? Congress? Local community standards? You?

If you were ultra-religious, you could just as well have said something along the lines of, "Sex doesn't have to mean skeevy or creepers or schemers or pornographers trying to film people having sex. That's just flat out obvious." Or is it? See how that works?

Opinions are like assholes: Everybody has one and nobody wants to see yours. That's why we have an age of majority, which in my country is 18. It's a somewhat arbitrary dividing line, but it's there for a very good reason. See, as long as you're at or above the age of majority, you get to do whatever you want within the bounds of the law. That's how the rules work. Nobody should have the right to impose further limitations based on their personal standards of "skeeviness".

That's a big assumption based on nothing.

I'll throw you a bone and concede that many studios have chosen to market the content in their "teen" categories in a manner that I find distasteful as well. Anything touching upon the "barely legal" theme, emphasizing the age of the performer for dramatic effect, does not sit well with me. Schoolgirl costumes have the same impact. The stuff Max Hardcore used to shoot (which landed him in federal prison) was all of that and more, on steroids, and I never liked it. To me, the stuff he shot is exactly what you were trying to define in your post, and it disgusted me.

But you know what? Freedom of expression is a precious thing, and it's fragile too, because it only exists as long as we all collectively uphold it. That means we have to allow the expression of ideas that we may find distasteful, in order that our own ideas which may in turn be found distasteful by others may also be expressed. As long as all of the performers in a given production have been verified as willing adult participants, then nobody has the right to interfere with their activities as far as I am concerned.

I understand your points and concerns, but this is a waste of time. If you're concerned about child abuse, then you should focus your energy and resources toward combating actual child abuse. There's far too much of that going on in the world and it needs to be stopped, and if you're concerned specifically about kids being influenced by porn, then maybe you should focus on campaigning for stricter age-gating laws so that kids aren't able to access porn at the touch of a button when they're fucking 12.

Edited by - evilpineapples on 12/19/2020 1:50:29 AM

[Link]

Lezzyist
Deactivated User

Make Porn Erotic Again
1736 Posts
9/19

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 2:17AM

You wrote alot only to not circumvent my point at all:

We know 16 year olds are off limits. But hey 18 year olds are pretty close! Score!

Simple, matter-of-factly speaking, it's about being as close to you can get to depicting kid-diddling without actually doing it. Let me applaud that restraint right quick. Smh

As I said, porn WANTS to be close to pedophilia. It doesn't have to be. If you tell me Gina Gerson is 18, you are doing it for a reason. There is a certain line that you are trying to approach as close as you can.

How about this? For fun, let's pretend we were all born yesterday. What's the teen creeping about if it's not about teen creeping? What's the "true" reason for it that I am corrupting and misrepresenting g with my lil forum post?

As for gate-keeping against kid viewers, absolutely. Age-verification before being allowed to see content wouldn't hurt anyone.

People can call faux CP what it is AND call for other positive changes in the industry too. Commentary one thing does not prevent commentary on the other.

Edited by - Lezzyist on 12/19/2020 2:20:15 AM

[Link]

evilpineapples
Member

ONE TWO THREE, KUUUCKMAAAL!
705 Posts
6/13

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 2:31AM

Raising the age of consent would only move the goalposts. 21 year olds would become the new "pretty close", or "barely legal", age group. Again, I understand the point you are making, but an 18 year old is a legal adult. That is where our society has chosen to draw the line. Your personal feelings of "skeeviness" are not relevant. I do see your point about the marketing, but the solution is not to change the age of consent. (In your case, though, you're only arguing for a change to the age of consent for this one specific activity, namely the right to shoot porn, which is yet another "soft reboot" of the age of consent following earlier changes to the minimum legal age to purchase alcohol and tobacco products.)

[Link]

Lezzyist
Deactivated User

Make Porn Erotic Again
1736 Posts
9/19

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 2:56AM

Ok awesome. If folks force the age limit up to 21, then it's no longer people "pretending" to prey on teens. Dope.

"Introducing Girl NameXXX! Just turned 21! Today!"

Sounds good to me.

Edited by - Lezzyist on 12/19/2020 2:59:01 AM

[Link]

AngryPirate
Senior Member

3210 Posts
8/17

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 5:54AM

You can keep saying that nonsense until you go blue in the face but it will still not make your opinion fact. Is there a particular reason why you have skirted around the fact that MILF/GILF porn exists? Could you do a mere mortal a favour and explain how the MILF/GILF genre as one example shows how porn has aspirations of cutting close to the bone with regards to paedophilia?

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 19 2020 : 6:28AM

Yeah, this thread has become useless and has almost nothing to do with PorhHub at this point. Time to close this bullshit down.

[Link]