Porn Industry Downturn -- your solutions? (page 2)

Author	Post
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Mar 24 2014 : 9:49PM Goldstein wrote: FWIW, I don't have the slightest interest in uploading porn -- that I have paid for and invested time in acquiring -- so that pirate sites and douchebags can steal it for free. I just don't get this Click to expand There are some uploaders who have built moneymaking enterprises by uploading porn. The filelockers such as (now defunct) Megaupload have "affiliate programs" whereby the uploader earns money based on file downloads and/or premium memberships sold (aka referrals). In such an operation, buying and downloading porn is just a business expense. They spend their days downloading/uploading porn and marketing their uploaded files, in various pornsharing forums dedicated to that purpose. The goal is to get users to download the pirate's uploaded files. [Link]
Tolham Member 10 Posts 7/11	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 7:12AM Blue Agave wrote: In porn, everyone and their brother Guido is a porn distributor. Add to that, the high turnover and failure rate among porn distributors, and I see a situation analogous to trying to herd cats where, at any given time, half the cats are actually undead zombie cats. Click to expand oversaturation is one of the biggest problems of the industry. if the industry wants to survive, it needs to consolidate. people want to stream their porn, but tube sites have many flaws. a professional streaming service can compete against those flaws for a reasonable subscription. [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 10:42AM Tolham wrote: the advent of tube sites should tell you that people want to stream their porn. but tube sites are far from perfect. the video quality is degraded, tagging is abysmal, and searching is iffy. the porn industry needs it's own netflix, with high quality video, meticulous tagging and advanced searching. Click to expand It doesn't tell me any such thing. Tube sites tell me that people want it for free. [Link]
alexidavid Member Keep calm. 666 Posts 7/13	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 3:18PM ^ A sound analysis. The success of tubesites and the rise of Manwin just tells us that people want it for free. It also tells that there is a huge amount of money in the business but unfortunately sizeable portions are not reaching the stars or the directors or the studios. My twitter Edited by - alexidavid on 3/25/2014 3:19:55 PM [Link]

Tolham Member 10 Posts 7/11	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 9:14PM Goldstein wrote: Tolham wrote: the advent of tube sites should tell you that people want to stream their porn. but tube sites are far from perfect. the video quality is degraded, tagging is abysmal, and searching is iffy. the porn industry needs it's own netflix, with high quality video, meticulous tagging and advanced searching. Click to expand It doesn't tell me any such thing. Tube sites tell me that people want it for free. Click to expand only if you have tunnel vision. legal streaming services in the music and tv/movie markets are thriving, despite competing against piracy. the porn industry needs to get with the times. [Link]
NotMyRealName Member 487 Posts 6/13	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 9:37PM So what you're proposing is more like spotify than iTunes it sounds like. [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 9:42PM Like most industries in America, porn will be chasing a shrinking demographic, the people who can afford luxuries. [Link]
Cuddly Wombat Senior Member Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04	Posted - Mar 26 2014 : 6:19AM Not so much a downturn as a refocus of the sex industry towards more specific, personal, inter-active, experiences - web cams, custom videos, fetish sites, strip clubs and escorting. Social-networking has made it so easy to connect directly to the hottest girls on the planet to fulfill your specific fantasy. There is no need to waste time and money buying every dvd that a particular performer appears in with the slim hope that some guy is sucking her toes for a second or two (if that is your thing). Now, just send her an email or IM on Twitter and she will be able to make a short video at home to your specifications for a modest fee. [Link]
Living Steel Member 29 Posts 11/13	Posted - Mar 27 2014 : 12:23AM IMHO, I think the industry needs to focus on gathering clientelle and to do that, they need to get women interested. GONZO style is not their thing at all and will actually turn them right off, from what I've noticed. Plot Based seems to really get them hooked and staying interested, so I think there needs to be a significant focus on this area. It's making the award categories and such, but for comparisons, you have 1 plot based flick released to 100 movies geared to guys that just want to zip through the plot, see the action and jerk one off (nothing wrong with that as I do that from time to time as well). I like the first reply on this thread, as it was well though out, but I felt it missed a few things. We need actors that want to act (seriously). I've watched my share of flicks and the acting in some is beyond horrible and yet others (e.g. the New Sensations stuff) is decent. Dear Abby or Friend Zone are some good "benchmarks" in my opinion. I also think plot based should have 1 scene that hits on some areas of key interest - interracials, creampies, squirting, MILF pick-up, etc. Yes it can all be worked into the plot (so I guess we need some decent screenwriters as well). Horribly long sex scenes need to go the way of the Y2K - seriously. Watching some dude bang some chick for 30 minutes, dripping sweat all over her, with this "oh I'm so good" look on his face, is 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back. THESE are the scenes I fast forward through. I'm now at a point of searching for flicks in IAFD and I now check the number of scenes to the minutes of the flick. If it's a 180 minute flick with 4 scenes - I'll never watch the video and will move on to something else. Edited by - Living Steel on 3/27/2014 12:29:40 AM [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Mar 27 2014 : 10:07AM Why Movie Streaming Sites So Fail to Satisfy Personal Tech By Farhad Manjoo MARCH 26, 2014 A team of web designers recently released an astonishingly innovative app for streaming movies online. The program, Popcorn Time, worked a bit like Netflix, except it had one unusual, killer feature. It was full of movies you’d want to watch. When you loaded Popcorn Time, you were presented with a menu of recent Hollywood releases: “American Hustle,” “Gravity,” “The Wolf of Wall Street,” “12 Years A Slave” and hundreds of other acclaimed films were all right there, available for instant streaming at the click of a button. If Popcorn Time sounds too good to be true, that’s because it was. The app was illegal — a well-designed, easy-to-use interface for the movie-pirating services that have long ruled the Internet’s underbelly. Shortly after the app went public, its creators faced a barrage of legal notices, and they pulled it down. But like Napster in the late 1990s, Popcorn Time offered a glimpse of what seemed like the future, a model for how painless it should be to stream movies and TV shows online. The app also highlighted something we’ve all felt when settling in for a night with today’s popular streaming services, whether Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, Hulu, or Google or Microsoft’s media stores: They just aren’t good enough. “Netflix Instant Thinking About Adding Good Movie,” an Onion headline joked recently. It was funny because it was true — and it’s not getting better. In the music business, Napster’s vision eventually became a reality. Today, with services like Spotify and Rdio, you can pay a monthly fee to listen to whatever you want, whenever you want. But in the movie and TV business, such a glorious future isn’t in the offing anytime soon. According to industry experts, some of whom declined to be quoted on the record because of the sensitivities of the nexus of media deals involved, we aren’t anywhere close to getting a service that allows customers to pay a single monthly fee for access to a wide range of top-notch movies and TV shows. Popcorn Time isn’t an achievable dream; it’s a cruel joke about a future we won’t realize any time soon. Instead of a single comprehensive service, the future of digital TV and movies is destined to be fragmented across several services, at least for the next few years. We’ll all face a complex decision tree when choosing what to watch, and we’ll have to settle for something less than ideal. For those of us with even slightly selective preferences, we’ll have to pick between different rental and subscription services offering different catalogs of programs, none very extensive, at vastly different price points. This sort of hassle and inefficiency sounds antithetical to the ethos of the Internet, where it seems to be your right to get everything cheap and fast. But for now, the Internet has met its match: Hollywood. “When I started in this business in the early 2000s, it was technology — the actual delivery of video in high-definition over the Internet — that was the impediment to creating these services,” said Blair Westlake, who until earlier this month was Microsoft’s executive in charge of media licensing. “Now the devices and broadband speed aren’t an issue. The problem is the business side.” He added: “There is a little bit of never say never — as consumer tastes change, there is a path you can see this business changing, and maybe someday somebody will come along and say we’re going to create something like a Spotify for movies. But it won’t be over the next five years.” The main reason you won’t see a comprehensive, all-you-can-eat movie plan soon is something called “windowing,” the entertainment industry term for the staggered way movies are released to various outlets. Like salmon, Hollywood movies are governed by rigid life cycles. First, a movie is released in theaters. A few months later, it heads to second-run outlets like airlines and hotel pay-per-view, and later it goes to Blu-ray, DVD and digital services that allow you to purchase or rent films à la carte. Then, about a year after a film’s theatrical release, trouble kicks in. That’s when a movie is made available to pay-TV channels like HBO, Starz and Epix. These premium periods are exclusive; when a movie gets to a pay channel, it often can’t be shown on any other streaming service. This usually means it gets pulled from à la carte rental services, too. Right now, HBO is showing “This Is 40,” “The Hobbit” and “Moonrise Kingdom,” among other titles. Because of the network’s exclusive hold over those titles, you can’t rent those films from any other digital service. Windowing also explains why Netflix’s movies feel so old. It takes about five to seven years after a movie first hits theaters for all its pay-window restrictions to expire. Only then does it become available to all-you-can eat services like Netflix. These salmon aren’t spring chickens. Why are movies released in this staggered way? And why can’t the system change to accommodate an all-you-can-eat plan? Money, of course. HBO and other premium networks have agreed to pay billions of dollars for the exclusive run of major studio films. HBO has said that, despite the cultural cachet of its original programs, movies are its most popular content; consequently, it has purchased rights to about half of all the movies released by major studios in the United States until beyond 2020. At least in this decade, then, a monthly movie plan that offers all of the movies isn’t going to happen. As Netflix has grown, it has begun to compete with premium channels for certain studio deals. This has led to speculation it’s aiming to snap up all such deals so it can one day create a truly great, comprehensive movie service. But Netflix isn’t promising such a move. Last year, in a memo outlining its “long-term view” of its place in the future of media, the company said it “can’t compete on breadth of entertainment,” and instead described itself as a “focused passion brand.” Again, money is a hurdle. Snapping up rights to lots of movies will be expensive, pushing Netflix to raise its prices. It’s not clear if customers will tolerate that. “People often ask us, ‘Why can’t you charge me $20 to give me everything I want?’ ” said Jonathan Friedland, Netflix’s chief spokesman. “The answer is, at $20 you still wouldn’t get everything you want — and we’d lose half our customers.” This doesn’t even address the further complication of television shows, whose rights are governed by a completely different windowing regime from that of movies. Mr. Friedland noted that unlike movies, multiyear TV series could get more popular with age. This gives networks an incentive to gain long-term exclusive rights to popular shows, which is why Netflix and Amazon have been competing with HBO to create their own original series. But exclusivity breeds fragmentation. The more companies we have creating exclusive content, the more different services you’re going to have to choose between or pay for. “Just like there’s no one TV network that gives you everything, there’s not going to be one app that gives you everything, and we know that’s frustrating for the consumer,” Mr. Friedland said. But there isn’t much Netflix can do to address that disappointment. If you want to get access to a lot of content — from top-flight TV dramas to new movies to sports — you’re going to have to pay for several services. You’ll choose between Netflix, HBO, Amazon Prime, basic cable, Hulu or Showtime. Or maybe you’ll just get all of them. [Link]
Tolham Member 10 Posts 7/11	Posted - Mar 27 2014 : 7:56PM congrats on your copy+paste of one opinion article. hey look, I can do it too: Netflix stock soars 16% on huge subscriber growth Netflix's blistering rate of growth continued in the fourth quarter of 2013. More than 2.3 million new American households signed up for the streaming service, its best quarterly performance in three years. In international markets, including Canada and Latin America, the service gained another 1.7 million subscribers, allowing Netflix to surpass the 10 million mark overseas for the first time. Overall, Netflix ended 2013 with over 44 million members, the company said in its quarterly letter to shareholders Wednesday afternoon. Netflix plans to spend $3 billion on content this year Good news for Netflix subscribers looking to burn through more movies and TV shows: The company declared in its 2013 Annual Report this week that it intends to spend close to $3 billion on content in 2014. In it, Netflix also projected that it will spend around $6.2 billion on content over the next 36 months. how many porn studios can make similar claims? is that one guy with the opinion you like from ny time's website going to help the porn industry? Netflix Checks Piracy Stats To Help It Decide What To Buy “When purchasing series, we look at what does well on piracy sites,” she says, explaining the company’s decision to offer Prison Break in the Netherlands, where Netflix launched for the first time this week. “Prison Break is exceptionally popular on piracy sites.” A recent report from Norwegian market researcher Ipsos MMI concluded that the introduction of Netflix and Spotify in Norway had a dramatic effect on levels of piracy. In 2012, the researchers found, there were only around 65 million illegal movie downloads and 55 million TV downloads, compared with 125 million and 135 million respectively in 2008. Edited by - tolham on 3/27/2014 8:05:36 PM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Mar 27 2014 : 9:09PM A few things... NETFLIX is great for what it is. As the article touches on, it will probably never be what some people want it to be...which is a dirt cheap subscription channel that shows all current or just released to DVD movies. Hollywood has different places to make money off a movie before it gets to NETFLIX for their cheap subscription rate. NETFLIX is great for older movies, tv series, documentaries, and oddball movies. If anyone wants to see/stream recent Hollywood movies they can but they have to do it on a Pay Per View basis. Which I think is fair...if a movie is fairly new and people decided they didn't want to go to a theatre to see it let them pay DVD rental prices to see it (or rent the actaul DVD) and if they don't feel it's worth the money let them wait til the movie's made all the money it can elsewhere then toss it in your NETFLIX subscription. Why would anyone expect to get all the recent top tier Hollywood movies for under 8 bucks a month? I've said it before and I'll say it again...I feel VIDEOBOX is the porn equivilant of NETFLIX. It offers a huge selection of older stuff from many different porn studios at a fairly cheap price. It's great for what it is but like NETFLIX some people don't think it's good because it's not what they feel it should be...which is a dirt cheap subscription that offers up new content. Plus, just like NETFLIX some people think their content should be of a higher quality based on their personal preference. And just like NETFLIX, VIDEOBOX can't offer what those people want at a rock bottom subscription price. I don't think any of this is a "greed" thing...Studios (porn and Hollywood) have to make money to make movies. Yeah, we see the big Hollywood movies making big bucks but many of the movies they make don't. [Link]
NotMyRealName Member 487 Posts 6/13	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 2:19AM @Draxxx: So then the next question is.... When does videobox start to produce original content? That would be an interesting turn of events. You make an interesting case for netflix/VB comparison. I wonder if they run out of licensed material if they would start (or at least fund) a studio to get original content. [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 9:11AM Tolham wrote: congrats on your copy+paste of one opinion article. hey look, I can do it too: (snip) Click to expand I'd be far more impressed if you worked on your civility. [Link]

Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 8:17PM Buying stuff [Link]
billybob Senior Member I don't like condoms in porn. 1115 Posts 9/10	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 8:35PM Cuddly Wombat wrote: Not so much a downturn as a refocus of the sex industry towards more specific, personal, inter-active, experiences - web cams, custom videos, fetish sites, strip clubs and escorting. Social-networking has made it so easy to connect directly to the hottest girls on the planet to fulfill your specific fantasy. There is no need to waste time and money buying every dvd that a particular performer appears in with the slim hope that some guy is sucking her toes for a second or two (if that is your thing). Now, just send her an email or IM on Twitter and she will be able to make a short video at home to your specifications for a modest fee. Click to expand Are you basically saying 'cut out the middleman'? Go straight to the source? I think I pretty much agree with you. The traditional channels for reaching the consumer are dying. DVDs and Blu-rays are in their last legs. Paid subscriptions to sites like Evil Angel, or Porn Networks, or Video Box and VOD type sites? I don't know how they're doing. I think there must still be a lot of money left there. But I think your suggesting 'tailored' one-on-one services will become more common. Why not directly interact with a hot babe through a 'cams website'? I totally agree. It's a shame tube sites are so popular. Because the quality absolutely stinks. I hate tube sites. No quality controls there. Maybe the traditional porn studio model will die some day? Who knows. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 8:59PM People buy jewelry and shit. I won't have that. I much more prefer fine cheap and shiny action on big time TV [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 9:36PM When does videobox start to produce original content? That would be an interesting turn of events. Click to expand I enjoyed your question to draxxx so I thought I'd give you a reply. The answer is never because doing so would mean that whatever profit they are investing in new content would have to be diverted toward making porn. I can see why someone would think that making their own porn is a good idea but just because they have a huge library of porn to use as template doesn't mean that they know how to make porn. The last thing VB needs to do is spend large sums of money on making subpar porn. I can't help but feel that the next few years won't be very rosy for VB. They are having a harder and harder time finding original content. They have all but completely exhausted most of their sources of older porn and these days the bulk of their updates consists of a mixture of crappy comp stuff and internet only content which can be found of many other sites. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 9:57PM Cuddly Wombat wrote: Not so much a downturn as a refocus of the sex industry towards more specific, personal, inter-active, experiences - web cams, custom videos, fetish sites, strip clubs and escorting. Social-networking has made it so easy to connect directly to the hottest girls on the planet . Click to expand All right web cams: I personally have no interests in this but even if I did then I certainly don't have the pocketbook. You have to have some serious cash to pay a minimum of 2$(and it's likely much higher) a minute to talk to and watch your favorite girl play with herself. I mean you have already burned through 40$ after 20 minutes and more if you tipped her. I'm glad people have money to spend on these performers but I don't. Custom videos: Knowing the going rates for performers than a b/g custom video is likely to be well over 1000$ and although it will star your favorite girl doing what you told her to do. You really don't know if the finish product is going to be all that you imagined it would be. strip-clubs is nothing new but there are now so many past and present performers all vying for the same job that the big paychecks are probably a thing of the past. Escorting is in many ways the same thing as stripping except with the added danger that it's borderline illegal and significantly more dangerous than stripping but there are so many performers willing to do it that asking for large sums of money must be getting harder for most performer/escorts. Social networking is a great place for girls to meet future escort customers but that's about it. [Link]
Cloudburst Deactivated User 392 Posts 1/14	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 10:42PM The number one reason I don't buy DVD's and only subscribe to sites: makes absolutely no sense to pay $20-$25 when a movie only has 1 or 2 scenes I'm interested in. Why don't companies lower the price of DVD's to say $10, or instead keep prices where they are but have 9 or 10 scenes on a DVD instead of just 4 or 5. [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 28 2014 : 11:46PM Draxxx wrote: A few things... NETFLIX is great for what it is. As the article touches on, it will probably never be what some people want it to be...which is a dirt cheap subscription channel that shows all current or just released to DVD movies. Hollywood has different places to make money off a movie before it gets to NETFLIX for their cheap subscription rate. NETFLIX is great for older movies, tv series, documentaries, and oddball movies. If anyone wants to see/stream recent Hollywood movies they can but they have to do it on a Pay Per View basis. Which I think is fair...if a movie is fairly new and people decided they didn't want to go to a theatre to see it let them pay DVD rental prices to see it (or rent the actaul DVD) and if they don't feel it's worth the money let them wait til the movie's made all the money it can elsewhere then toss it in your NETFLIX subscription. Why would anyone expect to get all the recent top tier Hollywood movies for under 8 bucks a month? I've said it before and I'll say it again...I feel VIDEOBOX is the porn equivilant of NETFLIX. It offers a huge selection of older stuff from many different porn studios at a fairly cheap price. It's great for what it is but like NETFLIX some people don't think it's good because it's not what they feel it should be...which is a dirt cheap subscription that offers up new content. Plus, just like NETFLIX some people think their content should be of a higher quality based on their personal preference. And just like NETFLIX, VIDEOBOX can't offer what those people want at a rock bottom subscription price. I don't think any of this is a "greed" thing...Studios (porn and Hollywood) have to make money to make movies. Yeah, we see the big Hollywood movies making big bucks but many of the movies they make don't. Click to expand Good post. [Link]
Mark_Z Member 9 Posts 2/14	Posted - Mar 29 2014 : 10:58AM Living Steel wrote: IMHO, I think the industry needs to focus on gathering clientelle and to do that, they need to get women interested. GONZO style is not their thing at all and will actually turn them right off, from what I've noticed Click to expand That may be your own personal experience, but overall that just isn't true. I worked in various adult video stores and boutiques between 2000 and 2013 and saw firsthand that women's tastes in porn are evenly split between plot-based titles and gonzo titles. Their tastes are also evenly split between romantic sex and rough sex. I had one female customer who would only buy releases from Sweet Sinner and Wicked. Another would come in on her lunch hour from work in full office attire and the only dvds she would ever buy were Mason's Gangbanged series and various dp compilations. Every woman is different. On the flipside, guys are split too. I can remember a time ten years ago when one couple got into a heated argument over what title to rent. The wife wanted one of Skeeter Kerkove's old Mayhem titles and the husband wanted a Vivid release. Edited by - Mark_Z on 3/29/2014 11:01:16 AM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Mar 29 2014 : 12:23PM pat362 wrote: When does videobox start to produce original content? That would be an interesting turn of events. Click to expand I enjoyed your question to draxxx so I thought I'd give you a reply. The answer is never because doing so would mean that whatever profit they are investing in new content would have to be diverted toward making porn. I can see why someone would think that making their own porn is a good idea but just because they have a huge library of porn to use as template doesn't mean that they know how to make porn. The last thing VB needs to do is spend large sums of money on making subpar porn. Click to expand Very correct and well said. I like VIDEOBOX but they seem to have their hands full just keeping the site running smoothly. To have good new content to offer to subscribers it would take lots of money to hire good directors, well known performers, locations, equipment, etc...and that's still no guarantee it would be content that fans would like or it would catch on. I can't help but feel that the next few years won't be very rosy for VB. They are having a harder and harder time finding original content. They have all but completely exhausted most of their sources of older porn and these days the bulk of their updates consists of a mixture of crappy comp stuff and internet only content which can be found of many other sites. Click to expand Maybe..maybe not. There's still plenty of good older stuff from many of studios they feature. I don't know if they have licenses/access to those movies or not but the content exists from studios they already offer. Plus, as things get tougher in the porn biz more studios will be willing to sell off their catalogue for money. Recently, VB started offering up movies from Alexander Devoe (good stuff) on a regular basis. MERCENARY movies started popping up recently. KELLY MADISON movies became available late last year althought they turned off a bunch of subscribers with those movies by posting them everyday for awhile and wore out their welcome. The content exists if they have access to it or are able to get access to it. So it will be interesting to see which way this all goes. I think VB is a great site for what it is but many people want it to be more but to make it what those people want would mean it would have to be a more expensive and different type of site. As others have pointed out in various places before VB doesn't make content they only offer what's available and most porn produced isn't great. But their library is so big there's plenty of great stuff in it. For me personally, even if they didn't offer new updates anymore I'd still keep VB becase there's still so much great stuff I haven't even watched yet and lots of great stuff I have watched but could watch over and over. But that's me. There are some thing I wish they'd do more of however...With their EVIL ANGEL updates they most add newer releases which is good but I wish they would add some of the older stuff regularly also. I'd actually like to see more older content from JULES JORDAN and more of the major studios they offer. I know people want newer stuff but the older stuff is/was good too. I also wish they would/could make deals with studios like WCP, NAUGHTY AMERICA, BANG BROS, etc., as premium content or even have their old stuff as part of their regular library. While I think VB is great for what it is... they could be even better. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Mar 29 2014 : 12:40PM Cloudburst wrote: The number one reason I don't buy DVD's and only subscribe to sites: makes absolutely no sense to pay $20-$25 when a movie only has 1 or 2 scenes I'm interested in. Why don't companies lower the price of DVD's to say $10, or instead keep prices where they are but have 9 or 10 scenes on a DVD instead of just 4 or 5. Click to expand That's always been a downside to DVDs but there really isn't any getting around it. To have more girls in a DVD release would mean the studio would have to charge more because it take more money to make more content. Plus the fact that even though lots of people mostly buy DVDs to see certain performer(s) doesn't mean the rest of the scenes are good. I have lots of DVDs where I haven't even watched most of the scenes and later I "discover" or suddenly become a fan of a girl and realize I already have movies with her in them that I never watched. I like what WCP does these days and offers "bonus" scenes of girls from other movies. Sometimes, it's stuff I've seen or might not care about seeing but it does make me feel like I'm getting more for my money. Those bonus scenes sometimes are the reason I buy some of their movies. I might only want to see one girl in the new scenes but they offer up a girl I like in the bonus scene it makes it worth buying. I think more studios should offer bonus scenes of older content on their new releases. It makes it a better buy for consumers and it's content already shot and often just sitting around and not costing the studio any money to include. [Link]

charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Apr 13 2014 : 12:13AM A porn home shopping network might work for a while, after the internet finishes its run. [Link]
CRFlixxx Member 60 Posts 4/13	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 6:54AM Mrtreldon wrote: but they need to be under $5 a month......Stop doing this 39.95/mo bullshit, it's not 2002 anymore. Click to expand You can't price a porn Netflix site at less than the cost of Netflix, not doable, but I've been saying for months these monthly subscriptions need to be cheaper. These sites put the yearly price of $90-120 as $7.95-9.99 a month, but you got to pay the full year in advance. Why not just offer the lower monthly price to start? I just joined BangBros and RealityKings because they offered $7.50 and $9.99 a month recurring subscription. That's a deal. Reality just gave me the $50 one time payment for unlimited Brazzers so I got that also. And even if I had paid the full year in advance, vs month to month, I'll still watch the same amount. Porn can't adopt the Youtube/online model of give it away for free and get paid through ads(except for the tube sites and that's because they steal)because not many advertisers will jump on, but why not the RoosterTeeth model? They got started doing videos taking Halo and making animated skits with the game. They charged $10 every 6 months for sponsorships. After 2-3 years, they started doing it full time. Eleven years ago it was just 6 guys making videos in their spare time. Today the company has over 50+ employees and just moved into a hanger size sound stage. Start small and cheap and people will accept less if they're PAYING LESS. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 9:32AM CRFlixxx wrote: You can't price a porn Netflix site at less than the cost of Netflix, not doable, but I've been saying for months these monthly subscriptions need to be cheaper. These sites put the yearly price of $90-120 as $7.95-9.99 a month, but you got to pay the full year in advance. Why not just offer the lower monthly price to start? Click to expand I guessing because they simply make more money by offering a one time yearly rate. It sounds like many people tend to only subscribe to a site for a month or two and then unsubscribe and may never come back. With getting people to make a bigger commitment they are guaranteed more money and get it all up front and it won't matter if the subscriber actually watches for all that time or not. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 4:30PM You can't price a porn Netflix site at less than the cost of Netflix, Click to expand Very true because no one can afford to do it. Even Netflix is having money problems with their 8$ a month membership plan and they have more paying members than any porn site will ever hope to have. I've been saying for months these monthly subscriptions need to be cheaper. These sites put the yearly price of $90-120 as $7.95-9.99 a month, but you got to pay the full year in advance. Why not just offer the lower monthly price to start? Click to expand The reason should be obvious to you since you have already joined two sites for a much lower amount than their normal monthly join price is. A membership for RK is 25$ and for bangbros it's 20$ so if these sites were to offer a year long membership but only charge it on a monthly basis than everyone would join, download all that they want and cancel before the year is out. I don't believe that any porn site that updates at least once a week can both survive and thrive without charging at least 20$ a month. I know many do charge less but are they really thriving or just barely surviving? [Link]
Blue Agave Deactivated User 108 Posts 3/14	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 6:44PM Make it illegal. That will decrease the supply and jack up the per unit price, thereby increasing the profit margin. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 6:56PM pat362 wrote: I don't believe that any porn site that updates at least once a week can both survive and thrive without charging at least 20$ a month. I know many do charge less but are they really thriving or just barely surviving? Click to expand We don't know how many subscribers they have, and what is the mix of full-fare vs. reduced-fare subscribers. If they have a solid base of recurring-fees members to provide enough money to support the basic operational costs (shooting new scenes, paying staff, webhosting, etc.), then they can afford many additional low-rate members because then they're just paying for the bandwidth, which isn't all that expensive. Reduced-rate subscribers are less profitable than full-fare subscribers, but are more profitable than if not subscribed. [Link]
CRFlixxx Member 60 Posts 4/13	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 8:42PM The reason should be obvious to you since you have already joined two sites for a much lower amount than their normal monthly join price is. A membership for RK is 25$ and for bangbros it's 20$ so if these sites were to offer a year long membership but only charge it on a monthly basis than everyone would join, download all that they want and cancel before the year is out. Click to expand Why would you cancel if you're only paying $7-9 a month? I'm paying $7.97 a month for BangBros and it rebills at $7.97. I'm not canceling because that's such a low amount even if I watch nothing that month, it's still worth it to keep it because if I cancel, there's no guarantee it will be that cheap again. Same thing for RealityKings at $9.99. Perfect price to rebill and forget. I watch netflix maybe twice a month and I haven't canceled my membership ever, because it's cheap enough to keep it just to have it. And how many people download full 1080p scenes? The average Brazzers scene is 3-4 gigs at 1080p. I download maybe one 1080p scene a month because I don't have the storage. BangBros only offers a max 720p download, around 600-900mb for 30-40min scene. For $8 a month, I'm fine with that, perfect compromise of quality vs storage. Also people don't watch everything all the time. I watch a lot of porn and there are still times I'll go weeks without logging on to this site or any site. I think that's how most people watch their online porn. Binge for a day or two then nothing for days or weeks after. The HP Touchpad fire sale proved people will buy junk if it's cheap enough, so all you got to do is keep your download file size low. People won't care about your production values if the price is right. They'll accept less if it's priced right and they won't cancel if the rebill is cheap enough. Edited by - CRFlixxx on 4/19/2014 8:43:49 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 9:02PM ^For the sake of my little test I picked Brazzer since it's often the usual suspect when it comes to talking about porn sites. Brazzer normally adds 1-2 new scene each day. I checked and in March they actually had 67 new scenes which breakdown into 34 x standard b/g, 13 x anal b/g, 1 x anal g/g, 8 x g/g, 9 x threesomes(1 male, 2 female), 1 x anal threesome and 1 x anal foursome (1 male, 3 anal female). Since I don't know Brazzer's rates than I'm using the only studio who bothers to post some rates. If I use Kink's rates that a female performer is paid 500$ to 800$ for g/g, 600$ to 1300$ for b/g and the men make 200$ to 400$. For argument sake I will assume that the higher rates in all categories is because it involves anal. Now if I breakdown cost for each type of scene I mentioned above then: 34 standard b/g x 800$ = 27,200$ 13 anal b/g x 1700$ = 22,100$ 1 anal g/g x 1300$ = 1,300$ 8 g/g x 1000$ = 8,000$ 9 3 some x 1200$ = 10,800$ 1 anal 3'some x 2300$ = 2,300$ 1 anal 4'some x 4300$ = 4,300$ That comes out to a grand total of 76,000$. Now I have a link that allows me to join Brazzer for one month at the very low cost of 10$ but it rebills at 25$ the following month. If you join directly from a link on the net then it's 30$ but who doesn't know a way to get a deal today? I don't know the going rates for CC processor so let's say that it's 20%. That means that for each 10$ Brazzer asks for. They really only have 8$ to play with. Let' say that Brazzer made 8$ per customer in March so that means they needed at least 9500 paying members just to cover the cost of performer salaries and who knows how much money for everything else. Does Brazzer really have over 10,000 members each month? If so then how many do they have to have to be able to make a profit? [Link]
jfarley Member 242 Posts 5/09	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 9:33PM $20-$30 per month access to ALL porn. Services compete on delivery. Channel funds to producers based on popularity. I only have so many hours per week to spend on porn, I will pay to spend them wisely. [Link]
harlanspector Member 32 Posts 4/14	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 10:08PM Interesting OP! My solution is for major studios to produce more content that caters to a female audience (and balance it 50/50 female focused, traditional audience focused) and to specifically the couples market...much less to the by-his-lonesome masturbating male market. For the masturbating male focused stuff, less about DVD's, more about real-time PPV as well as more interactive video. Types of interactive video: 1) Fans vote on plot, positions, etc at key points of a live session 2) Fuck a fan contests where selected fans get with different "lesser" contract girls with the studio, and the rest of the audience votes scene vs scene in a knockout format until the winning fan gets a scene with the "prize" girl Also, porn streaming services need to have as much cool content (from as far back as the 70's) and as good of a user interface as a Hulu or Netflix. Otherwise, masturbating males will just continue to flock to torrents and tube sites, as a masturbating male gets little out of paying for a DVD when there is more porn than he can watch in his lifetime available for free. For him, the focus really needs to be on real-time ppv and interactive. Save the features for a female and couples audience, and redesign plot conventions to ones more suited to the tastes of those two groups. Other thoughts on this thread https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/are-porn-studios-targeting-the-wrong-audience [Link]

harlanspector Member 32 Posts 4/14	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 10:15PM Living Steel wrote: IMHO, I think the industry needs to focus on gathering clientelle and to do that, they need to get women interested. GONZO style is not their thing at all and will actually turn them right off, from what I've noticed. Plot Based seems to really get them hooked and staying interested, so I think there needs to be a significant focus on this area. It's making the award categories and such, but for comparisons, you have 1 plot based flick released to 100 movies geared to guys that just want to zip through the plot, see the action and jerk one off (nothing wrong with that as I do that from time to time as well). I like the first reply on this thread, as it was well though out, but I felt it missed a few things. We need actors that want to act (seriously). I've watched my share of flicks and the acting in some is beyond horrible and yet others (e.g. the New Sensations stuff) is decent. Dear Abby or Friend Zone are some good "benchmarks" in my opinion. I also think plot based should have 1 scene that hits on some areas of key interest - interracials, creampies, squirting, MILF pick-up, etc. Yes it can all be worked into the plot (so I guess we need some decent screenwriters as well). Horribly long sex scenes need to go the way of the Y2K - seriously. Watching some dude bang some chick for 30 minutes, dripping sweat all over her, with this "oh I'm so good" look on his face, is 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back. THESE are the scenes I fast forward through. I'm now at a point of searching for flicks in IAFD and I now check the number of scenes to the minutes of the flick. If it's a 180 minute flick with 4 scenes - I'll never watch the video and will move on to something else. Edited by - Living Steel on 3/27/2014 12:29:40 AM Click to expand I'm with you. Think well acted/produced porn miniseries, with character arcs over multiple 30 min episodes. Game of Thrones was pretty open about full frontal nudity with its sexpositions. Porn could simply take things a step further, with essentially shows just like you'd see on HBO or cable, but with unsimulated sex in the sex scenes. Kayden Kross stood out to me as one performer who would do well in this type of framing. There was something like this on a softcore series with Malena Morgan in it, the name of the series escapes me. It was something like 12 10 minute episodes around her crazy relationship with a psycho millionaire. [Link]
CRFlixxx Member 60 Posts 4/13	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 10:28PM Well, the Brazzers forum has 400k memembers. Figure out of that, there's at least 10k paying. Also, and let me say again, people will TAKE LESS if they PAY LESS!!! I've had Brazzers on and off for several years now. I download maybe 10 vids a month. Give me 20 vids a month at $8 a month with a max res of 720p...I'm good. And I think there are enough people that would accept that, especially if the website was upfront of their budgetary restrictions and that was one of the reasons they offered such a low monthly membership. Be honest with your audience, engage them, and they'll appreciate it and give you a lot of slack. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 11:59PM CRFlixxx wrote: Why would you cancel if you're only paying $7-9 a month? I'm paying $7.97 a month for BangBros and it rebills at $7.97. I'm not canceling because that's such a low amount even if I watch nothing that month, it's still worth it to keep it because if I cancel, there's no guarantee it will be that cheap again. Same thing for RealityKings at $9.99. Perfect price to rebill and forget. I watch netflix maybe twice a month and I haven't canceled my membership ever, because it's cheap enough to keep it just to have it. Click to expand This answers your earlier question regarding: why don't they just have a standard rate of $7-9 per month. The looming threat of losing your great deal (and henceforth paying the normal $25-35) discourages you from cancelling. [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Apr 22 2014 : 6:31PM Another growing demographic is young people who can't move out of their parents' homes. Lez porn may already have that covered, with the flood of older-younger/incest porn. That looks like a steaming pile to me, but I may be too old for that market. [Link]
gangbangdf Member 154 Posts 7/14	Posted - Jul 6 2014 : 7:02PM I I really think the industry and directors does not care about our opinion. No change we propose is adopted. . . . [Link]
xihtug Member 143 Posts 7/12	Posted - Jul 7 2014 : 12:08AM Hows EA doing? I like their model. Each director does their own thing and none of it is vanilla brazzers stuff. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Jul 7 2014 : 12:43AM ^ They just had a change in management (Elegant Angel Names New President, COO). That article says that they plan to ramp up production, more titles more often, and that they will go back to the old standard of 5 scenes per movie. Personally, I've liked some of the recent stuff they've done, but I haven't loved anything from Elegant lately; Elegant is currently third in terms of studios that I'm interested in (HardX and Jules Jordan Video are #1 and #2, respectively, for me). One thing that I've noticed recently that's cool is how their one director, Mimefreak, has started doing fan voting for casting in his recent productions; he recently held a fan vote for his upcoming Pretty Petite interracial movie, which Veruca James won. Another positive development, especially for me, is that Elegant plans on bringing back the series Massive Facials; I have high hopes for that one. [Link]
lex von v Senior Member 2511 Posts 12/12	Posted - Jul 7 2014 : 5:38AM ^ I think what he meant with EA is Evil Angel, not Elegant Angel. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Jul 7 2014 : 10:18PM ^ Whoops, sorry...everytime I see "EA" I assume that people are talkin' about Elegant Angel. (Makes sense that he'd be talkin' about Evil Angel, arguably the most popular studio in porn nowadays; not too many people care for Elegant Angel anymore.) [Link]
aemetha Member 26 Posts 7/14	Posted - Jul 8 2014 : 12:57AM 1) Drop the "dvd style format" for all digital content except features. There is no need to bundle together unrelated scenes when content isn't limited by the delivery mechanism. 2) A centralized content delivery system similar to Steam for games. 3) Strong focus on content correctly tagged in the delivery system. 4) Active promotion of the content (e.g. steam style flash sales). 5) Competitive pricing. The price for content has to be less than the inconvenience of the offering from tube sites. Producers need to focus on quantity of sales over quality of sales in this regard. 6) Very robust search mechanism. For example, if I want to see a 5 guy on 4 girl orgy with no anal in victorian period costume I should be able to search for that. The more robust the search mechanism, the more inconvenient what is offered by tube sites becomes. Why steam and not netflix? Flexibility. Steam offers much more in this regard. Steam also involves users much more actively (e.g. vote for whats on sale next). Steam caters to a massive number of independent developers, this environment being much more similar to the adult industry than the mainstream industry netflix operates in is. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jul 8 2014 : 3:09AM ^ I just wanted to point out that Steam-style Flash sales do exist in porn, you just have to know where to look for them. For example, almost every day on the front page of Freeones you'll see a site on the top of the page offering themselves for at least 30% off (right now, it's Naughty America for $5, and they were actually $4 all weekend in honor of the 4th of July). The issue is not having a centralized place to go look for said discounts (sometimes they're on twitter, sometimes they're on Freeones, sometimes they're in a promotional e-mail you get sent because you were a member once before). [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Jul 8 2014 : 9:39AM aemetha wrote: 1) Drop the "dvd style format" for all digital content except features. There is no need to bundle together unrelated scenes when content isn't limited by the delivery mechanism. Click to expand However, now they will lose revenue that came from DVD sales and rentals. So there is less money coming in for the release. 2) A centralized content delivery system similar to Steam for games. Click to expand Someone will have to design, write, and pay for this system. Which would be a hefty initial investment. 3) Strong focus on content correctly tagged in the delivery system. Click to expand The added cost of people to review the content to make sure it is correctly tagged as sometimes studios market material as something it isn't. 4) Active promotion of the content (e.g. steam style flash sales). Click to expand Where? On the system? If so you will need to create a large customer base for that to help. 5) Competitive pricing. The price for content has to be less than the inconvenience of the offering from tube sites. Producers need to focus on quantity of sales over quality of sales in this regard. Click to expand Dropping the price way low on all content will cause generic cheap scenes adding to customer discontent. 6) Very robust search mechanism. For example, if I want to see a 5 guy on 4 girl orgy with no anal in victorian period costume I should be able to search for that. The more robust the search mechanism, the more inconvenient what is offered by tube sites becomes. Click to expand See numbers 2 and 3. Why steam and not netflix? Flexibility. Steam offers much more in this regard. Steam also involves users much more actively (e.g. vote for whats on sale next). Steam caters to a massive number of independent developers, this environment being much more similar to the adult industry than the mainstream industry netflix operates in is. Click to expand Going the Steam route, from how I understand it, would heavily limit customers. It requires using the computer and a constant bandwidth connection. Netflix offers streaming through multiple devices, on the computer, along with DVD and Blu-ray rentals. Frye TV offers similar to what you have been describing except they have multiple devices going. They do charge differently for different studios though, based on the studio and content. Going to any one system that drops the rate down so all studios are the same or similar I think would harm the industry along with limiting how customers can obtain the material. I know people who utilize VOD only on the computer and I know people who utilize DVD only in a TV set-up in the bedroom. If you go to one system, then all the money for the production, plus profit, would have to be made through that one system. The only ways I see that happening are to cut the costs and offer worse products, or by raising rates through the one delivery system. Either way I see as detrimental to the industry. Personally, I think releasing less content, putting more effort into it, and raising prices would help the industry the most. I know raising prices sounds bad, but with less product one would have to. I think the slew of cookie-cutter box covers pouring out month to month lowers sales as after a month or two a title is forgotten for another one. If you look through the price search, many titles from just a few years ago are already out of print and unavailable. Their revenue, except for reselling the scenes for compilations, seems gone. Also a more staggered release system might help. VOD through the company's own site initially for a premium price. Then DVD/Blu-ray sales for a lesser price. Then general VOD/download sites for an even lesser price. Staggered over a sixth month time frame. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jul 8 2014 : 5:28PM A very good question and some good responses but no one from the industry (except Jacco's hilariously jaded comments) so far. This is a very interesting question that there's currently no real answer to: the music industry is in the same quandary. Personally I use stream and download sites like adultempire.com and only buy classics I love on DVD or blu-ray. [Link]
aemetha Member 26 Posts 7/14	Posted - Jul 9 2014 : 3:33AM Flash wrote: aemetha wrote: 1) Drop the "dvd style format" for all digital content except features. There is no need to bundle together unrelated scenes when content isn't limited by the delivery mechanism. Click to expand However, now they will lose revenue that came from DVD sales and rentals. So there is less money coming in for the release. 2) A centralized content delivery system similar to Steam for games. Click to expand Someone will have to design, write, and pay for this system. Which would be a hefty initial investment. 3) Strong focus on content correctly tagged in the delivery system. Click to expand The added cost of people to review the content to make sure it is correctly tagged as sometimes studios market material as something it isn't. 4) Active promotion of the content (e.g. steam style flash sales). Click to expand Where? On the system? If so you will need to create a large customer base for that to help. 5) Competitive pricing. The price for content has to be less than the inconvenience of the offering from tube sites. Producers need to focus on quantity of sales over quality of sales in this regard. Click to expand Dropping the price way low on all content will cause generic cheap scenes adding to customer discontent. 6) Very robust search mechanism. For example, if I want to see a 5 guy on 4 girl orgy with no anal in victorian period costume I should be able to search for that. The more robust the search mechanism, the more inconvenient what is offered by tube sites becomes. Click to expand See numbers 2 and 3. Why steam and not netflix? Flexibility. Steam offers much more in this regard. Steam also involves users much more actively (e.g. vote for whats on sale next). Steam caters to a massive number of independent developers, this environment being much more similar to the adult industry than the mainstream industry netflix operates in is. Click to expand Going the Steam route, from how I understand it, would heavily limit customers. It requires using the computer and a constant bandwidth connection. Netflix offers streaming through multiple devices, on the computer, along with DVD and Blu-ray rentals. Frye TV offers similar to what you have been describing except they have multiple devices going. They do charge differently for different studios though, based on the studio and content. Going to any one system that drops the rate down so all studios are the same or similar I think would harm the industry along with limiting how customers can obtain the material. I know people who utilize VOD only on the computer and I know people who utilize DVD only in a TV set-up in the bedroom. If you go to one system, then all the money for the production, plus profit, would have to be made through that one system. The only ways I see that happening are to cut the costs and offer worse products, or by raising rates through the one delivery system. Either way I see as detrimental to the industry. Personally, I think releasing less content, putting more effort into it, and raising prices would help the industry the most. I know raising prices sounds bad, but with less product one would have to. I think the slew of cookie-cutter box covers pouring out month to month lowers sales as after a month or two a title is forgotten for another one. If you look through the price search, many titles from just a few years ago are already out of print and unavailable. Their revenue, except for reselling the scenes for compilations, seems gone. Also a more staggered release system might help. VOD through the company's own site initially for a premium price. Then DVD/Blu-ray sales for a lesser price. Then general VOD/download sites for an even lesser price. Staggered over a sixth month time frame. Click to expand 1) Digital content. DVD format would still of course be used for DVD release. 2) Hefty investment, but huge potential. This is the basis for the free market, no risk no reward. Personally I would prefer if such a delivery system was a joint effort by several leading adult companies. It removes the monopoly aspect, and doesn't place all of the risk at a single investor's feet. 3) If the tagging was done by the studio's themselves the cost becomes inconsequential. 4) Building a customer base is a no brainer if the main players commit to it. Steam was faced with the same issues and it became very quickly a runaway train in terms of customer base. Facebook, twitter, instagram, amazon, google... all examples of how customer base is rapidly accrued as a natural effect of convenience. IMHO I don't think the adult industry has learned from everything else going on on the internet. The internet as a whole is massively different to it was 10 to 15 years ago, but the porn side hasn't really changed at all apart from the proliferation of tube sites. 5) I'm not suggesting dropping the price way down. What I am saying is that the cost can't be a significantly higher deterrent than the bad tagging and poor video quality found on tube sites. The price could remain the same, if the convenience of the delivery is dramatically improved. Additionally, having a centralized delivery system would allow studio's to market to a much wider audience, allowing them more flexibility in price. Finally, a larger audience encourages pricing by merit. The better the quality, the higher the price can be charged for it. I agree and disagree with you on raising prices. I would like to see a lot more price by merit. I'm also not suggesting these changes would be easy, or without risk. Like I said above, the adult industry hasn't moved with the times. The reality is DVD and Blu-ray and any other physical media is on borrowed time (anyone want to invest in tower records?). In order to move forward studio's need to look at digital content, and specifically how to get it in front of as large an audience as possible. I don't know if my suggestions are the answer, but they need to do something soon to arrest the current decline because pretending they can continue the way they have for the last 10 years isn't working, and I for one would like to see new content still being produced. [Link]
darthroc Member 754 Posts 4/14	Posted - Jul 9 2014 : 3:37PM Porn needs to be less about the sex. If it was more about other things the sex would be more fun to watch. It seems like in pre scene interviews all they talk about is sex. What I love about the fitness modeling industry is that it has mainstream non nude fitness paysites, and it also has some soft adult fitness sites. Some serious NPC figure and physique competitors do nudity, a couple of them have done some rare solo hardcore video, and several female body builders have done tons of that and real porn. In a lot of ways, seeing a serious girl like an NPC physique competitor showing her breasts is more exciting than seeing a coked up porn girl in a gangbang. Ofcourse, what helps merge the two is that bodybuilding is still somewhat of a subculture like porn. I have videos of serious NPC figure competitors working out, competing in contests, doing interviews about working out and competing and balancing thier lifestyle with thier personal lives, then I have videos of them topless, nude, and masturbating. Its pretty hot. Scenes need to do more to show the porn girl's real life identity and persona. There are 2 or 3 scenes where we see Keisha Grey on a skateboard and some other scenes where we see Destiny Dixon on a bike and in biker clothes. We need more of that. [Link]
a9nostic Senior Member 1056 Posts 8/08	Posted - Jul 9 2014 : 4:08PM darthroc wrote: Porn needs to be less about the sex. Click to expand Sorry... what?! [Link]