I really don't think most girls get into porn to be rich per se but to make a lot more money they could've made otherwise working a conventional job they'd be qualified for. Most people don't earn as much a year as a typical B level or higher pornstar.
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TommyT Deactivated User
24 Posts 9/10
Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 1:18AM
Well they should know that the average "B level" porn star has a very short shelf life. Look at how many girls get into the business every year, how many movies the average girl does, and how much they get paid. It won't come out to that much. I guess it pays more than working at McDonalds but it's not enough to justify giving up an actual profession to become a porn star.
You may be correct--but remember that's only one, two years a performer is in the biz. If they don't save and use their one-time porn dollars to set them up for their post-porn life, they'll most likely find themselves doing the very same jobs they ran away from when they decided to enter porn. Bottom line: long-term career planning is something every performer should do at the time they enter the biz. And then they have to stick to the plan, or they'll be no better off from their porn experience. Agents and Managers should give this advice, and offer assistance with financial planning. But I don't believe this is common in porn, though there are people, like "Kelli" who does the Fame Registry, who have offered good financial & career planning advice to a few new performers.
derek, makes a great point, how many porn stars who are in industry for several years and had a fair amount of success - leave and never come back. Part of reason that they don't or come back they have not set themselves up for future life.
I have no idea how much dough Jenna Jameson has. That said, a lot of people seem to have this whacky idea that Jenna must be making tons of money just because there's a brand out there called "Club Jenna". How much of "Club Jenna" does Jenna own? It's not necessarily the case that she owns any of it (she could simply have licensed her name, likeness, etc. -- for a lot or a little). Nor is it necessarily the case that it's a profitable venture. With respect to both questions, you'd have to be Jenna, her accountant, or her lawyer to know for sure. ---------- [typos]
There's a popular perception out there that the evil porn industry takes girls and use them up for about a year or so then tosses them out whether they're ready to leave or not. There may have been eras in porn where that was the case but for the most part from what I see that simply isn't true. There are plenty of girls who have porn careers that last for years and leave when they decide it's time to leave. Those girls may not stay as popular as they were when they were new but until the last couple of years there seemed to be enough work to keep most "B" and "A" girls working. And the porn biz seems to accept them if they choose to return. Also, there's more to a porn job/career than doing scenes for DVD release. There are girls who we can (or could) work steadily on the very many online sites who don't work for the major DVD companies anymore. There are many girls who have their own sites that have been successful for years without being in mainstream porn. Then there's the strip circuit that actually is much more profitable than doig porn. Christy Canyon often talks about dancing across the country for over a decade before giving it up. Yeah, not all girls are as popular as Christy but it's not hard to believe that less popular girls can still make soild money off their porn career feature dancing or just dancing in clubs for years. So while a girl in porn needs to manage their money wisely it's even more important that they plan their porn career carefully. You hear about girls who hit hard times after porn but what about the hundreds that keep their careers going? Seka for example hasn't appeared in mainstream many years and still makes money from porn. It's possible for other girls too if they think smart.
^^^ You say, "A 4-year-old story in ChinaDaily.com." I say, "Jenna, her accountant, and her lawyer." I guess we'll just have to disagree about which sources of information are likely to be knowledgeable and authoritative. ---------------
Tabitha Stevens, Porn Super Star, Celebrity TV personality, Regular guest on Howard Stern,Dr.90210, 264 Posts 7/09
Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 3:57PM
I just have to chime in, having a column in FHM or any other Big mainstream magazine doesn't mean that you are making Big$$$. Most of the time you will get to plug your website or movies in exchange for having a column. It's ALL about PRESS. I am very sure that Tera made A LOT of $$$. She is beautiful and had Evan pushing her hard. Hell, MANY of us have made a LOT of $$$. Question is, what have we done with it? Are we happy with where we are right NOW in our lives? To most actors/actresses/directors money is like toilet paper, we have it, we use it like crazy(sometimes even more than we need to therefore wasting it) and then it gets flushed down the toilet with the rest of our CRAP! Do you think that I was paid at all for the 7 years I spent as a favorite guest on the Howard Stern Show? Nope. But I was VERY happy to have been given the plugs for my website and anything else that I wanted to promote. Besides, I love howard and really enjoyed being on his show. I paid for all of my traveling and hotel to NY to be on the show. Do you REALLY think that reality stars make big$$$? Ummmmm, not really. There are a very few that do. Do you think that the houses they show these stars living in are even their houses? Most of their cars are leased or rented. ALL for SHOW! Hey whatever works I guess. Sad thing is that along with the $$$ (porn or otherwise) comes the shitty attitude. Who the hell wants to be around that? www.tabithastevens.com
well tabitha if you aint a millionaire its cool with me I would still hang with your gorgeous self
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heh8me Deactivated User
47 Posts 7/10
Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:36PM
Im guessing on average B star on up porn-stars make more than the average working class person. They had a you-tube video of Cassandra Cruz talking about even with her degree the jobs she had didn't offer much compared to porn.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 12:08AM
Everything I've ever read about the "Financial Jenna" always comes back to the the fact that the Ex; Jay Grdina, was the true brains of the operation and Jenna was just the front face.
Just for the record, the point of my comment wasn't to belittle Jenna. It was only to say that having a brand named after you doesn't always translate into piles of cash.
Tabitha Stevens, Porn Super Star, Celebrity TV personality, Regular guest on Howard Stern,Dr.90210, 264 Posts 7/09
Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 2:53PM
Thanks for sharing that Bob! I had not read that before. Penny's situation is Soooo common. It's not just in the porn world either. Hopefully there will be many actors/actresses who read this post and realize that money comes and goes real quick in theses parts and that there are people who are hungrier and greedier that come into this business EVERY DAY! Hey, let's all be honest here. Jenna was a beautiful girl who got in the business at a great time with a great company that PROMOTED her. She became a big star and TOGETHER Jenna and Wicked pictures grew. Howard Stern helped out Jenna's career tremendously as well. Jenna worked her ass off and yes her ex was a big help in making the Jenna 'brand' but it's REALLY Jenna that had to DO all the 'fucking' work at the end of the day. She worked hard and rightfully so got paid VERY well. How much she made/makes is HER business. Bob is correct, just because your name is on something doesn't mean that you fully own it. Could be a licensing deal. www.tabithastevens.com
Without true numbers that can be verified then we are left at speculating who is and who isn't a millionaire. If Jenna and Tera are millionaires then it seems to be because of good business transactions and not from appearing in multiple porn movies. I can believe that Jules and a few other director are millionaires because they own the finish goods so they can keep making money in one form or another from their movies but actors and actresses get paid only once.
Penny Flame's situation is not unique to the porn industry. You can look at Professional Sports (across all of them) for easy comparisons. It is entirely common for pro athletes to live high on the hog while guaranteed money or signing bonuses are pouring in, not realizing for a moment that you can only maintain that kind of high end lifestyle while money is still coming in. Once the cash stops coming in so quickly (or at all), its tough for some folks to downsize their lifestyles. And, as Penny Flame sadly exemplifies, another part of the problem is people who get that kind of money do not have good financial management skills. I mean when you are driving off the lot with a car thinking 14% APR is a good thing (or not even giving it any thought at all), that is a red flag right there that you do not understand how to manage your personal finances.
I think with some people when they make a lot of money like that it's not that they don't have good financial management skills as much as you just don't worry/care about that stuff because you're making so much money. Yeah, she was making $1000.00 payments but realistically she could probably make that in one day. I'm sure her thought process didn't go any father than "I want this car and I can afford 1000.00 a month no probem". With some people, they don't worry about that stuff unless they have to. I'm not saying it's a good thing but that's just how it works.
I think Jenna's success was a perfect storm of timing, luck, being the right place at the right time and her (or whoever) taking advantage of it. That's why no other pornstar could copy her success even if they were smarter, prettier and actually a better pornstar. Even Jenna couldn't do what she did if she had to do it all over at a different time.
Hey Tabitha, how about those softcore late night cable movies? How do they compare in pay to the average porn shoot? I see a lot of ex pornstars doing those and often wonder if it's better pay that lure them into it. Can a girl make a better living doing those instead of porn?
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 12:33AM
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 12:56AM
Sorry, I don't do things such as Tweeting and Twitting etc. I find my own life infinitely more interesting and fascinating than people who have to announce to the world everytime they take a dump.
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 8:36AM
Wow, somehow the rest of my post didn't get posted! I posted that twitter page because it shows evidence that women are becoming wise to Jenna Jameson and that her financial mythology is untrue. Jenna was cyber-bullied on this twitter page and had no facts to come back with.
Tabitha Stevens, Porn Super Star, Celebrity TV personality, Regular guest on Howard Stern,Dr.90210, 264 Posts 7/09
Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 2:44PM
Hey Draxxx! Soft core actors make way LESS $$$ than hard core actors. Like cut your rate in half and then some. The money for those types of shows is usually spent on (in our case) ~ exotic locations, costuming, travel, lodging and sometimes even the rental of a 'candy apple red' ferrari (if the writers put it in the script), three to four different writers, original music scores, preproduction and post production and a much larger crew. If a producer were to hire the talent at their hard core rate the show would cost A LOT more $$$ to produce. There are 13 episodes to the soft core shows that we have shot for HBO/Cinemax. Each episode has 3 to 4 simulated sex scenes per episode. Realistically you would have a talent budget of over 100,000 dollars. These shows require acting skills not so much having fake sex skills. What I find to be funny is that most of the 'non~porn' actors in these shows are the biggest Divas around and have pretty lame sex scenes. They even put down porn stars and consider themselves 'real' actors. Ummmm yeah ~whatever. The rate for these types of shows for talent are: for girls $600 and for guys $400. The lead role makes more obviously and that's usually a flat rate to carry the entire series. I would find it hard to believe that a soft core actor makes a million dollars from doing these shows. Besides they aren't constantly shot like we shoot in porn and there are no royalties from these shows. www.tabithastevens.com
i doubt lisa ann is a millionaire ..as she tours the country feature dancing 50 weekends out of 52 just follow her twitter. every 3 days she is at a club halfway across the country. she probably makes decent money doing that her talent agency and her scenes , however if she was a millionaire i doubt she woudl be on a plane flying to a gentleman's club in bum fuck south carolina every weekend .
^ Perhaps all of Lisa Ann's is efforts are to get her to the point of being millionaire down the road so she doesn't have to worry about money when she gets older. Lisa Ann seems to be a smart business woman and I'm sure she's not only doing very well for herself today but is making the most of it while she can.
That's funny to hear because realistically most of the Scream Queens and softcore actresses aren't really any better at acting than the porn girls and the porn girls do better simulated sex scenes. The pornstars who do those movies look just as good as the Scream Queens so there's no real reason to go with a Scream Queen over a pornstar unless the SQ is so popular she brings viewers to the movie. I can understand why we see less and less SQ/softcore stars and more pornstars in those movies these days. I would think the Scream Queens would feel more of a bond with the pornstars since they're both pretty much in the same boat...They both want to be in mainstream movies but no one in mainstream takes either one seriously and crossing over is almost impossible.
The Penny Flame story isn't even close to unique to porn. It's true in almost every walk of life, from pro sports to Wall Street to politics. Hell, multiple members of Congress are in foreclosure as I write this. I bet there are some stealth millionaires in porn, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lisa Ann was one of them. If she's truly on the road 50 weeks per year, that means she's making most of her money in cash, plus her day-to-day living expenses are paid (assuming the clubs have to pay for travel and/or hotel). Unless she has a drug habit or goes shopping every day before she dances, she's exactly the type of person who could have big money stashed away. The sad thing is, a huge number of porn stars COULD exit the business in great financial shape if only they thought beyond today's paycheck. It's not uncommon for escorts to work 2-3 years, pay cash for a house and car, and then walk away or go to college, etc. But I suppose the same exhibitionist nature that leads people to porn instead of escorting also probably results in high levels of conspicuous consumption. This is another example of how so-called "porn agents" are lame, lame, lame. I've yet to come across a "porn agent" who wasn't simply a pimp or middleman. A true agent would hammer a modicum of business sense into their clients' heads. Posted by Jack33139 ... Miami, Florida, U.S.A.
An agent is a middleman by definition. An agent's job is to book gigs and collect fees for the performer; sometimes, to help the performer make choices among available opportunities, both short and long-term. Agents aren't business managers, psychotherapists, parents, or babysitters.
This is only half true. I'm not suggesting porn agents should be full-fledged financial advisors, but it's clear that most porn agents are more beholden to the companies than to their clients. Unless the business model has changed substantially, the so-called porn agents are usually paid by the company as opposed to being paid a fee or percentage by the performer/client, which is almost by definition a conflict of interest. Agents in Hollywood and pro sports are constantly at war with the studios and teams for better pay and working conditions, but when's the last time a "porn agent" has done the same? Some of these agents do little more than lead the sheep to slaughter (e.g., the old stories about Dick Nasty sending newbies to Max Hardcore). Posted by Jack33139 ... Miami, Florida, U.S.A.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Jack33139's post isn't corresponding with what I have heard about agents. They are paid a percentage by the the performers they represent. That's why the few that are self-represented decline to have an agent: They don't want to pay an agent a commission if they think they can find work themselves. But being paid a percentage doesn't make an agent any less interested in finding his or her clients work: if she or he (don't forget the male performers) isn't working a particular day, the agent is earning a percentage of zero dollars that day. If you're bad at math, a percentage of zero is zero. It might make sense for sports agents to tell their clients to hold out for more lucrative contracts through training camp, but in porn most jobs are one day affairs, with the exception of features. Do you want the job or not? There is no, "yes, I'm interested, but I'm going to wait for you to sweeten the deal for several weeks before I sign anything." Any haggling will done relatively quickly. I'm not saying there aren't any creeps among the agents and directors. And it's not that surprising that there is familiarity between agents and directors and producers, if they've been in the business for several years, while many of the performers will be in and out of the industry in under a year. But the better agents do refuse to book their clients to outfits that seem shady, and I've heard directors complain in recent years about newer girls being told by their agents to not do anal, even if they already do anal in their personal life. Apparently the theory is, the girl makes a big following for herself without doing anal, and then she can charge big money for her first anal when she finally does it. Though whether that big first anal paycheck is more than the money she passed up not accepting anal scenes before is debatable. It does seem questionable to me if there have ever been situations where a performer/agent was cast in a scene with one of their clients. Does the client have to pay the agent a percentage of the money the studio paid them to fuck their agent?
At least a girl like Penny Flame got to enjoy her money and lifestyle while it lasted. What about the girls who just aimlessly wander through porn without any sort of plan? Kissy Kapri was on the Howard Stern show to promote a movie she did with one of Stern's WACKPACKERS and she didn't seem to have any sort of plan or goals for herself in porn or regular life. When asked what her next porn gig would be or when it would be she didn't know. When asked if she danced on the side she said "no". When she was asked for the name of her website, she said she didn't have one. At that point the thinking is "Well maybe her boyfriend takes care of her.." but when they asked what her boyfriend did for a living she said he didn't have a job. A few months later when the WACKPACKER appeared on the show we said Kissy had called him to borow money to get out of jail and never paid him back. I was a fan of Kissy Kapri but this was just sad. If you're going to do porn and take on all the risks/problems that go with it you should at least try and make the most from it instead of half ass kinda sorta doing it and not looking beyond the last payday you had.She's an in demand pornstar, she has her own angency, and she supposedly dances non stop and probably has other revenue we aren't aware of. Perhaps she doesn't make a million per year but I'd think if she wasn't blowing it, she could amass a million or more over the course of a few years.
A few months ago I watched an interview with Lisa Ann on Youtube. She mentioned that she'd invested a portion of her income in real estate business. To be more precise, she said she owns 5 large houses and reaps a lot of money from rent. So I assume that owning such a large property, being on tour 50 weeks a year and churning out scene after scene week after week pretty much makes you a millionaire (oh, I forgot about the agency:0 :) ) But to put all of this into perspective - this is Lisa Ann's second stint in porn. Her first was from 1994 until 2000 or 2001, so her career goes a long way back, and she must have been a very astute business woman, apart from being the hottest MILFs around. How many top porn stars (hall-of-famers, even) have achieved such a level of entrepreneurship and financial independence to own and operate their own talent agency, tour the country 50 weeks a year, still rank among the hottest performers around and reap rewards almost every year:) Well done, Lisa Ann:) :) Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.
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overrated guy Deactivated User
1283 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 2:50PM
Mike; just for your knowledge, 1.000.000 Turkish Lira = 700.000 USD . So it won't be bad if you would have invested in Turkish lira.
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overrated guy Deactivated User
1283 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 3:29PM
Dear Tabitha, First of all, thank you for the heart to heart explanations you made here. Salaries, earnings etc. are not among the topics business insiders like to talk/write about. Many members have made some guesses, estimations in this topic who is a millionaire or not ? Can you also make some forecasts according to that issue? Your ideas will be more valuable and correct, at least they can stop this topic for the time being...
Tabitha Stevens, Porn Super Star, Celebrity TV personality, Regular guest on Howard Stern,Dr.90210, 264 Posts 7/09
Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 9:25PM
It's REALLY hard to say who has millions and who doesn't. Lisa Ann does NOT own her agency any more for the record. I'm sure that she does very well and she is a VERY hard working woman. Nikki Benz is also a Very hard working woman. I give these ladies so much credit for their drive and work ethic. Do they have millions? Maybe. Maybe they are just trying to earn enough to make it on their own later in life. So let's say that I had made millions~ does that make me a better person because I made lots of $$$. Or am I a better person because I help my sister with her first grade class and take her to Dr.'s appointments because she has late stage Lyme disease and is a single mother of 11 year old twins ( yes, I watch the kids too). Last Fall till up to now, I can't count the endless Dr. appointments, the hospital for surgery visits, the days spent at school helping students with projects and grading papers, not to mention all of the worrying and emotionally challenged times on both of our parts. I think that my love and help is what makes me a better person, not the amount of $$$ that I have. Well there are always going to be those people who 'need to know' how much other people make for a living so that they can be judged. Just remember that some of these men and ladies in our business have HUGE EGO's and WILL lie about what they make to IMPRESS you. In other words, don't always believe the HYPE in what you hear or read. :-). www.tabithastevens.com
^ Eh...I'm not really judging or care one way or the other but it's fun to speculate. It doesn't make me watch their stuff or like them any more or any less. Like I said before, every news report on porn says it's multi-billion dollar industry. I think it would be cool if at least some of the talent who actually makes it is making a really good living from it.
As I said above, it's possible the business model has changed in the past 2-3 years, but the last time I saw this issue discussed in depth, the agents were almost always being paid a flat fee by the companies. It wasn't a situation where agents booked scenes and then mailed an invoice to the performers for "x" percent every week or month. (Given the unreliability of a lot of porn stars, I don't necessarily blame the agents, but this doesn't change the fact that this type of payment regime makes the agents more beholden to the companies than to their performer clients.)True, but doing three scenes for $1,500 each is better than doing four scenes for $1,000 each. I'm not trying to say a scene is worth "x" more than what they're making now. My point is simply that despite porn being a multibillion-dollar industry, 99% of the performers seem to leave it with little or no money in the bank. Either the agents aren't getting them a big enough slice of the pie and/or the agents aren't advising their clients in terms of basic money management, let alone advanced investing. A porn actress who does 100 scenes for $1,000 per scene shouldn't be getting her car repo'd three months after leaving the business.This might be true -- don't know -- but it seems to me like the average porn actress is doing more and more and doing it earlier and earlier in her career than ever before. Maybe it's supply and demand, but I haven't seen any widespread effort to keep newer starlets from performing advanced sex acts.This is like a tailor-made agent joke: "He fucked her coming and going!" --- Posted by Jack33139 ... Miami, Florida, U.S.A.
Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 12:21AM
. So it won't be bad if you would have invested in Turkish lira.