granted I dont use many of these items

DIRECTOR
PRODUCTION MANAGER
ASSISTANT DIRECTOR
CAMERA OPERATOR
CAMERA OPERATOR #2

GAFFER
GRIP 1
GRIP 2
STILL PHOTOGRAPHER
MAKE-UP
PRODUCTION ASSISTANT
PRODUCTION ASSISTANT #2
BEHIND THE SCENES
CAMERA PACKAGE
SOUND PACKAGE
LIGHTING PACKAGE
SET SUPPLIES
PROPS
WARDROBE
FOOD / MEALS
FILMING PERMIT
FILM & TAPE STOCK
LOCATION
AGENCY FEES

RENTALS
DOLLY
JIB ARM

CAST / TALENT
SCENE 1
SCENE 2
SCENE 3
SCENE 4
SCENE 5

you have the expense of many of these items before you even look at one time expenses like
main camera
basic light kits
having the product pressed
having the product authored

and most producers have an office your spending rent utilities and business permits just to occupy the space and in that space you have a secretary an accountant warehouse workers sales staff

dont forget about advertising expenses

so maybe you take 15k to set to pay talent but capturing the footage is only one step.

I am not saying that talent makes more than companies. Although I'm 100% positive that there are months where a gonzo girl is taking home more than a studio head.
It would be interesting to see if most talent would go for points on the back end instead of the instant pay. If you could get a good percent of talent to do this it would open up opportunities for more producers who don't have a lot of money for production.

I would be extremely willing to use any girls that wanted to work for profit share for the independent porn we make. As a side not I have worked for partial ownership on a handful of videos that I really cared about and they have never been pressed. I have never seen a dime from it and I dont even sell them when I strip or off my site because they are dvd-r and many people can't watch them.

Jenna did it the right way but she opened her own company. many of my friends have worked for her and they got their regular rate not anything on the back end.

as talent I prefer to get my money and end my involvement for the most part, i have done a few projects that i felt probably were destined to fail. I have also put a lot of money in a lot of peoples pockets.

Im not saying porn performers shouldn't get more money but like mainstream actors the majority should do their part and get their rate with the real powerhouses having the leverage to ask for %.

I think many people do care about who directed it and more importantly who shot it.
It doesn't matter if you cast the ultimate porn star in it if its not shot well or the company that produced it has a history of bad tech quality people may buy 1 but they will feel ripped off and skip your product it may also be hard to distribute it if the distributors get bad feed back.

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Cindi X is a hot redhead who has been making porn for 2-3 months in Porn Valley. She gets a call from her agent that Devil's Films wants to do a scene with her for an upcoming Teen Tryouts. It's a BJ-B/G-swallow cum scene and they're offering $1500 for a 3-4 hour shoot.

Should she jump on that (no pun intended) or does she say "You gotta be kidding!" Oh, and she's NOT desperate to make this months' rent.

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As for you previous post, I see where your coming from. My only problem with it, is that your average porn doesn't require all those people and equipment. I know for features the costs are higher and more people & equipment are needed, but I'm talking about a average gonzo studios production. I know what it cost to get a dvd on the shelf, including overhead, location and dvd/vhs production costs.

You also stated that some girls that do gonzo have made more than a head of a studio. If that was the case, then that head of that company is doing something wrong. My opinion of coarse.

I have expressed my thoughts and I know for fact how much these studios make. So I am talking from experience and the people I know, so my opinion will not be changed. Sorry Kami, I guess we can just agree to disagree. Keep on trucking.

Kami, if I may ask, how many units of your last dvd/vhs did you sell?

Edited by - dvddude on 8/16/2005 4:33:54 PM

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Steadiness can only be found in the changing of my signatures.

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Girls for your own good and your pocket book, take control of the industry, because if it wasn't for you, the industry would not exist. Well boys and girls, me expressing my opinion on the matter will never change anyone in the industries mindset, so I'm out.

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Steadiness can only be found in the changing of my signatures.

Edited by - VincentVanGauge on 8/16/2005 6:11:03 PM

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Steadiness can only be found in the changing of my signatures.

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Oh let's say a girl's done 300 movies in a 5 years span. So that's 60 movies per year if we divide 300 by 5. And say they get paid 500 per scene so that leaves her with $30,000 annual gross income and that's before taxes :P. That's why I don't think a girl should be making less than $1000. Girls should not downgraded themselves and accept the minimum unless they're amateurs and jsut starting.

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The 'reward' for exceptional talent isn't more money per sex scene but the chance to become a producer.

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A flavor-of-the-month porn chick can make over 30k in 30 days. An established, solid performer can make at least 15. Don't cry for them Argentina.

Quaze

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Hello, again.

I have to admit that I am a little disappointed in you guys. ADT Members are usually a lot smarter than they are showing in this thread. Of course, maybe that is why so few industry people have jumped in here.

First, the internet world in "Bum-Fuck Little Town" is going to be a different rate world from a name porn star in Los Angeles working for an actual studio.

But still....

Don't you dare accept as gospel a rate scale offered up by a low-rate internet company. Did you even bother checking their website to see what kind of girls they are shooting for this alleged $500 per scene?

This is who shoots for $500 a scene

That is a "BKP" website, straight from their website. That is who they are shooting. They aren't booking Katja Kassin or Flower Tucci or Eva Angelina for $500.

I am telling you right now that they are flat-out lying about what they pay the girls (if they have shot name porn stars) or they are paying no-name girls who do not know any better.

They would be laughed at by every LA Porn Girl I know if they offered that low a rate.

Apparently, they paid Kami $1200 for her scene.

Of course, the only porn star in this thread - Gia Jordan -who was asked if she would shoot for $500 a scene said: No. The other pornstar/director in this thread - Kami Andrews - said she has never paid a girl less than $1000. But you still ramble on for pages as if $500 is the going rate?

The reason that porn studios and porn girls aren't running in here to tell you what rates are is two-fold:

1) Rates in this game are all negotiation - yes, there is a standard industry scale range - but, you can get paid half it or ten times it (it all depends on you, you or your agents negotiation, and the porn company).

If legit LA porn studios run in here and tell you what they pay, then they are locked into that rate even with a girl they could get for less.

If legit LA porn girls run in here and tell you what they want in a rate, they can't ask for more.

When a regular girl starts out, except for the Keri Sable/Teagan Presley level new girls - she pretty much works for the going industry rate (unless she or her agent don't even know what that is).

When I started out, I didn't have allot of say on rate - other than that I would turn a job down that was under the going rate, so I was upfront about my rates (even had them on my booking website) so that directors/producers knew I knew what I should get.

But, now I wouldn't post in here my rates. My bottom will-shoot rate is now well-above the "standard rate", but I also know (and now my agent is there to know it for me) which companies can and should pay me even more than I might ask from someone else.

See, rates fluctuate allot more than you think. They fluctuate based on the quality of the girl and the budget of the company.

One company might only pay a girl $1000 for a particular scene no matter what, while another one might easily pay $1500 or even more. And, there are some girls who will get $3000 for it - just because of who they are.

Oh, and for the person who said that rates are going lower - they have actually gone up quite nicely from 2003 to 2005. This year a starting out girl is getting 10-20% more than she was two years ago per scene.

Can you accept why porn people are not running each other over rushing in here to give you rates?

Second, rates for scenes are paid (usually) based on what exactly you are going to do. Now that varies per director even for the same genre. And, every little extra means something different to a girl.

One gonzo girl doesn't even ask if it is a facial or if she is going to swallow. Another one you might have to pay to swallow. One might not care if there is an internal pop shot (although that sure has changed allot),
another one might not do it or might charge more for it.
One girl might say 3 guys at once is normal, another might charge extra, etc., etc., etc....

I could go on and on and on...

Here is the bottom line: rates vary allot more than anyone leads you to believe.

Even I was really surprised when I started finding out how much more I would get paid for something than another name porn star and how much more she was getting paid for something that I was.

A special girl could even be getting 3 times the normal rate every day.. I know one who was (yeah, I was surprised too).

Now, to help end all this silly speculation I will say that in 2003 a new girl in LA was told that $800 is the boy/girl rate (no anal); now she might be told it is $1000 in 2005. I guarantee it isn't $500.

But, remember what I said? There are girls who probably do it for $600 or $800 still and there are other girls who would laugh at you unless you gave them $1500 and everywhere in between.

Also, there are low-budget companies that pay less than that because they do not have the money to pay the industry rate. We all know who they are. It is up to the girl if she decides to cut her rate to shoot for them. (Some of them are worth cutting your rate for - like the director who only shoot 12 minutes of film every scene and gets you out in 45 minutes total; others are not worth cutting your rate for at all.)

There are also directors who will pay more than that rate to everyone, because they have the money and they want to.

It all just depends.

Next, another factor that affects how much money someone makes is how often they work.

From October, 2004 - May, 2005 I shot no less than 8 and no more than 14 scenes in a month. I was averaging 10 shoots a month. Personally, I don't like to out-shoot myself, so I pace myself.

I know girls who during that same period were shooting literally 20+ shoots every single month. They made allot more money than I did (at least from shoots).

Other girls are going to be shooting 4 times a month; others even less.

Now, you have another factor which skews what he "average" girl can make.

Next, what affects what a girl makes overall is how many places she is pulling income from.

Someone mentioned that most girls who shoot porn feature dance. No, they don't. In fact, it is small percentage of girls who do.

Most contract stars - like Wicked Girls - do (not all of them); most gonzo girls, do not.

A porn girl may be making money from none to all of these sources:

1. Porn Scenes
2. "Privates"
3. Website Memberships
4. Store Sales (8 x 10's, Posters, Movies, Personal Items, etc.)
5. Auctions
6. Custom Videos
7. Appearances (Store Signings, etc.)
8. Convention Signings (AVN, LA Erotica, etc.)
9. Feature Dancing
10. House Dancer Stripping
11. Toy Contracts
12. Directing Deals
13. Product Ownership (Shoots their own movies)

The better the business woman combined with the bigger her name, the more money she makes from these different areas.

And, no girl is going to come out and tell you how all those slices of the pie add up.

The truth is that the "average girl" makes money from only a few of those places - don't try to say later that I said all porn girls make all this money.

The average girl doesn't make nearly as much as the very good girl, who also makes nothing compared to the very top-shelf girl.

You would be very surprised if I told you how much Belladonna makes from website memberships. You would be very surprised if I told you how much I make in product sales from my online store. You would be very, very surprised if I told you what some of the girls make from "privates". You would be very surprised if you knew how much a girl Ariana Jolle or Lauren Phoenix made last year just from scenes.

And, you would also be surprised how little that the "average girl" you keep talking about who comes to LA and shoots 10 movies and goes home with no income from any of these other places makes.

Many "glamour porn stars" don't have enough slices coming in from their pie.

And, as far as Jenna Jameson - you guys are WAY UNDER what she makes - she is making millions and millions (really). But, she is a person like no other in the business - don't compare her to anyone; no one is like her. And, she is never going to come in here and tell you what she makes - no secure, smart business person does.

How do I sum all that up?

Don't let anyone tell you that all porn girls get rich, and don't let anyone tell you that all porn girls are broke.

This business - like any other - is all about what we make of it, business-wise.

Oh, and as far as this debate about what it costs to shoot a gonzo movie - you guys need to stop listening to TonyC running down every porn star, porn director, and porn studio as if they were pond scum that he stepped on with his special "film director" shoes.

It costs allot more to make and distribute a gonzo movie that you claim to think.

Did you read that - please, tell me you read that. Just in case, I am going to repeat it: it costs allot more to make and distribute a gonzo movie than you guys apparently think.

I almost forgot - for my dear friend Vincent Gauge - just because I won't let a low-life director from a crap studio take advantage of me, utterly use me, and spit me out as trash doesn't mean that I don't love sex. It means I respect myself.

Girls who love sex should still also love themselves - and, that means they should respect themselves enough to know when they are being taken advantage of and turn down those jobs.

We happen to be girls who have chosen a profession we love, but it is also still a profession. Right?

A girl who has no respect for herself and let's herself be taken advantage of is not a girl who loves sex - she is a girl with no self-respect.

The girl who does respect herself and handles her business with professionalism and pride AND STILL CHOOSES TO HAVE GREAT SEX ON FILM THAT GIVES HER PLEASURE AND NOT SEX THAT DESTROYS HER - that is the girl who really loves sex.

Okay.. enough ranting from me - I will return you back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Selena Silver - SelenaSilver.com

Edited by - SelenaSilver on 8/23/2005 1:33:21 AM

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For some strange reason I have the urge to listen to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida after reading that. If you'll excuse me...

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Peace out!

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Steadiness can only be found in the changing of my signatures.

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"a little bleary, a little bit worse for the wear and tear"

Thank you Selena. If that isn't the most comprehensive essay on the topic than I can't imagine what would be...except, perhaps, for a peek at Mark Spiegler's accounts, lol!

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everybody in the industry is rich.

are you kidding? Why bother explaining?

You guys make about the same as a good teacher.

They work about 7 months a year. And look what they don't have to do........

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7 months a year? And look to what they have to do as well.




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and what about what they do? Preparing young people for their lives ahead of them. Hopefully contributing positives in our society.

I'm a little confused by your response.

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Thanks for your post.
By far the longest post I ever read from beginning to end on ADT.
Nobody assumes you sell yourself cheap.
I think this thread was about the "filler girls" (I hate this term), who's names we don't remember and who never post on ADT.

I'm sure that porn is as any other section of the entertainment industry. The ones on top make billions of dollars. Pretty popular people make pretty money. But the majority has to struggle hard to make a living.

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Steadiness can only be found in the changing of my signatures.

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YOU are confused? Now I am confused. What did you mean with your comparison between what porn stars and teacher make versus what they have to do? Weren't you basically implying that teacher have it easy?
If so, I will repeat, you are just luck that my sister....



astroknight said:
“I never thought it was possible to put ‘Tricia Devereaux’ and ‘Icebox’ in the same sentence!”

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Everything you said made perfect sense. It's the way of business.

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Selena is Selena and surely stays Selena.

Do you remember any girl who tried to be the next Jenna over the last ten years?
No, they are all gone and forgotten.

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I think gipsy666 meant something else, though, namely that Selena could be the next person to be as successful and famous as Jenna. I don't see it happen, though, and it's not Selena's fault. Without mainstream media coverage it's not possible, I think. Even the best fuck on camera doesn't mean a New York Times journalist will write about how much he enjoys her work. Maybe twenty years ago she would have hit the headlines as "the porn star with natural tits" (even though Walter could name 57 others off the top of his head). Nowadays you have to do circus acts like trapeze porn to make the headlines, and I hope Selena doesn't go that way.
I hope you all understood that I love Selena and that I think she would deserve all success and honour (though sometimes that can be a pain in the ass, too, envious Jenna-bashers come to mind), I just don't see it happen that any porn star in the near future could become as famous as Jenna in the near future (I omit success here because success can show itself in many different ways). If the future will prove me wrong, so be it. It happens.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic. I should make up for it. Okay, here's a question for you: How much celery do fucking rutabagas get?

Edited by - VincentVanGauge on 8/18/2005 3:03:13 PM

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