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| driedupfish Member 16 Posts 9/07 |  Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 12:18AMi read this article about porn stars exploited by the porn industry. http://way2much.wordpress.com/2006/02/27/edit-economically-exploited-porn-stars-dispensable/ makes me think that it is kind of true. they get so little money for porn its nothing compare to what the producers make from it. they get like 500 euros or something, which probably is a lot to them, but is nothing compare to what the producers and the distributors earn. and there are occasionally really cute girls are willing to do even the nastiest scenes, probably because they come from a poor background and they really need the money. that's sad. [Link] |
| Lonborg Member 114 Posts 1/03 | Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 4:31AM [Link] |
| ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06 | Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 5:05AM did you know that mcdonalds sell fries now too? [Link] |
| Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07 | Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 5:16AM Points being a percentage of the movie's profits. [Link] |
| Brandon Iron BrandonIron.com 3832 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 5:55AM [Link] |
| solidsnake Member Dying To Live 266 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 10:52PM [Link] |
| neogasm New Member 5 Posts 11/07 | Posted - Nov 18 2007 : 10:57PM [Link] |
| maniac killa Deactivated User "Allow me to extend my hand in friendship and shake yo fuckin neck" 82 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 12:00AM [Link] |
| Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 12:23AM In porn, the profits had always come after the product was produced--so unless the producer had lots of money up front, there was limited money in the overall production budget. And the performer, who is paid up front, does not share in the windfall if the sexvid sells really well. This is why contracts had worked best for performers: they have a set income for the term of the contract. Of course even with a contract the company is making a huge amount of money off of the performer--especially if the company also controls the performer's website. Speaking of which. Websites are the great equalizer. Performers can make an excellent income from a well-run website--which is why so many stars are moving their careers in that direction, and away from working for porn production companies, who produce dvds. In the future my best guess is that although porn girls have be very slow to understand the economics of the biz--and their true worth--they do now. Between personal websites, feature dancing, and work for adult websites like Suze Randall, Earle Miller, and Digital Dreams a performer with smarts can make a lot of money for the 2-5 years she's in the biz. The major difference between being a freelancer in the past vs now is, because of direct access between performer and customers, the performer really can control her own career. In the past, freelancers' careers were controlled by agents and managers--who told them what to do, or they would just send another girl out on jobs. I'm watching both Kayden Kross and Teagan to see how they make the new, post dvd era, business model work for them. [Link] |
| sickguy Deactivated User I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan 736 Posts 9/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 1:18AM Hey driedupfish, this is just our friendly way of saying "welcome to the forum"!  [Link] |
| imak Adult Film Legend 3345 Posts 2/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 1:26AM [Link] |
BlackSix  All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 1:37AM [Link] |
| kirby Member California 187 Posts 8/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 12:48PM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 1:19PM (was this a trick question?) [Link] |
| Guam Member 613 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 1:23PM I lost 14 IQ points just reading this discussion. [Link] |
| Ramsey Senior Member Trina Michaels fan 10332 Posts 10/02 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 1:55PM [Link] |
| sickguy Deactivated User I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan 736 Posts 9/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 2:00PM [Link] |
| eyeballs a bleeding Deactivated Again 181 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 2:59PM [Link] |
| Dude Love Member 80 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 3:09PM There isn't really a male equivilant to that either where can a young dude turn to if he needs quick cash? $1000 is great money for just a few hours work. The porn stars are the entertainment, in my view they are no different the session muscians being hired to perform on the new Madonna/whoever album. Madonna will make shit loads of cash and the session muscian gets $500 to play a bass line. Its business. That's why chicks like Bella are not only sexy, but smart too. [Link] |
| christianx Senior Member 1883 Posts 9/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 3:29PM 1. girls personal websites dont make that much money. any girl making more than 3k a month off her site should be doing cartwheels. 2. suze randall, earle miller, and digital dreams aren't even close to the biggest internet sites out there. are you saying this bc they have solo girl layouts? more people want to see the girls doing boys no? 3. what female performer lasts 5 years in this busines? 2 years is damn near impossible for most. 4. kayden kross does like 2 scenes a month if that. teagan is still a wild card, but we will see. i wont post anything about her future as a courtesy. [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 4:14PM Instead of paying for advertising. These ladies get famous through porn films and get paid for it a little bit too. [Link] |
| imak Adult Film Legend 3345 Posts 2/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 4:35PM [Link] |
| benderset Deactivated User 477 Posts 8/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 4:58PM [Link] |
| Brooklyn Blair Member 14 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 5:26PM yes pornstars can earn a great annual income if they work hard, but does that take away from the fact that they are exploited to a certain degree? no. [Link] |
| christianx Senior Member 1883 Posts 9/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 7:15PM [Link] |
| ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 8:23PM that argument doesnt disprove the presence of exploitation. Edited by - ma meeshka on 11/19/2007 8:24:51 PM [Link] |
| benderset Deactivated User 477 Posts 8/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 8:31PM [Link] |
| imak Adult Film Legend 3345 Posts 2/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 8:35PM [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 8:44PM That's what the Communists said about all such business relationships and tried to abolish them all by force and by law. A lot of people they killed, and a lot of people they sent to jail. But in the end their experiment failed. I see no reason why a Communist approach would work any better with making porn now. [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 8:51PM You want to talk about exploitation? Go work fast food for a month or two (And I mean 40 hour weeks. Not that part time shit) and see if you don't feel like you've got a ten inch cock rammed up your ass. And you can go buy yourself a Pepsi when you get your paycheck and start counting the days until your next one. I'm not arguing that porn isn't exploitation or even that it's a smart move. But why is it that you only hear grumbling and complaining about exploitation when there's sex involved and it's cute, young college aged girls? I think the answer is obvious. It's not the exploitation that bothers people. It's the sex. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/19/2007 8:54:43 PM [Link] |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 8:57PM Two jobs equivalent to porn, no educational achievement required, working at the risk of one's life. The big difference is that the French Foreign Legion and the oil companies pay much better to compensate for the dangerous labor conditions. [Link] |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 9:04PM I want the porn stars to be compensated for the risks and the stigma that come with this work. Edited by - juha on 11/19/2007 9:14:37 PM [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 9:57PM But what I'm against is interference from outsiders in mutually consentual business relationships between porn stars and porn producers. This is something they need to work out between themselves the best they can. It's not our business to judge them and interfere in their business. [Link] |
| christianx Senior Member 1883 Posts 9/04 | Posted - Nov 19 2007 : 10:55PM lets put it this way, i know for a fact that a major pornstar who only did anal for her website was ecstatic if she had 300 members a month. 3200 members! good lord. [Link] |
| Gabriela Rossi Member 29 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 5:45AM Yes, it is true that I came from a poor background, but my nastiness has nothing to do with cash, honey :-) [Link] |
| brewski Deactivated User 208 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 6:53AM She might have about 23 customers a month. [Link] |
| TerriRedor Member The Floating World: Porno News and Events 25 Posts 2/03 | Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 8:40AM Such a loaded word. We've all (in the US) visited a MacDonalds, Target, Walmart store. It's all a matter of supply and demand. There are a lot of girls who want to work in the industry, and there are a limited number of companies who want to employ them. And those companies are facing slack DVD sales and and an uncertain VOD future. It isn't a conspiracy - it's a market. What's exploitation? An unfair advantage over someone in need? That describes almost every employee in the U.S. Why focus only on women in porn? When that's a tough case, considering that the porn names everyone knows, make six figures a year at least. Maybe if you're so concerned about fairness, you should actually engage in some political action, help create some alternative opportunity in our collapsing Fascist nation.... What have you done about basic education - or even college education funds - for the wandering souls who end up in porn? T. [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 2:45PM That's the way prostitutes are treated in USA. Nobody ever asks the prostitutes whether they want to work as prostitutes or not. Various lobby groups, police representatives, and politicians claim to speak on behalf of prostitutes, without being authorized by any prostitute to do so. And the end result is that prostitutes are regularly being arrested and thrown in jail, even while all these moral crusaders claim to be helping them. I'm sure there are plenty of such moral crusaders who would like nothing better than to do the same with porn stars. [Link] |
| eyeballs a bleeding Deactivated Again 181 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 5:34PM [Link] |
| Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07 | Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 10:00PM Of course in some cases this seems to be a classic case of anybody with money must be evil. I mean read Terri's post. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems like the jist of things is that you are either exploiting or being exploitd which is a vast over simplification at best and a lie at worst. [Link] |
| Manuel Ferrara Member 94 Posts 2/03 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 2:57AM Edited by - manuel ferrara on 11/21/2007 2:58:26 AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 3:04AM For example, a mainstream Hollywood film makes A LOT more than a porn film and actors in mainstream films get paid A LOT more per film. But are porn performers being paid the same as a Hollywood actor in proportion to the amount their films make? I think the answer to that is obvious, NO. The difference? Hollywood actors are organized and have a union, porn performers don't, and never, ever will. [Link] |
| the unknown pervert Deactivated User I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 9:36AM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 11:50AM Kind of reminds me of the new girls who get pressured to do anal/DPs/etc. on the set (even though they have already said no), and then get "bargained" with after the scene over price (even though they thought they had an agreement before they started). And their "agents" don't do a fucking thing about it (except to deliver the next fresh-off-the-bus hottie to the same predators  The fact that they pull this shit with established people like De Bella, and, as I recall with Kami (who just didn't get paid), is what exploitation is all about. And, it's not just the girls. Studios screw over directors too (ex: the recent flap with Brandon Iron not being paid by RLD).ANDI get a little tired of those who try to poo-poo a real problem with snotty variations on "aw, the poor girl getting paid hundreds/thousands to suck a cock... let 'em work at WalMart" shit. It's not all about the money (although people are screwed over money and stiffed in porn all the time). Try treating the talent with a little fucking respect! [Link] |
| eyeballs a bleeding Deactivated Again 181 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 8:59PM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 9:44PM How about studios/directors just asking the girl to do what they contracted for, without a pressure and threats on the set, and pay them the agreed upon fee when they're done? That could work too, don't you think?That's why it sucks so bad when the director pulls the shit on them.I'm betting the release is signed, IDs and current HIV test are checked before the girl ever makes it to actually performing. Checks come after the performance... if they're lucky.De Bella, Kami and Brandon (my examples) are pretty sharp tacks. De Bella's daughter Jewel is one of the sharpest tacks in the porn business box... yet she took a good screwing from PXP.You mean like Brandon does when he makes his movies for distribution by others? Only a dull tack would settle for a share of the profits. Haven't you heard, movies never show a profit Sharp tacks (at least in the mainstream film industry) get a percentage of the gross and/or a certain royalty per unit.Minor detail, right? [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 10:21PM I'm sure that in some instances, convicted felons end up as construction site supervisors. And they end up abusing their subordinates, especially when these subordinates happen to be illegal immigrants. But does this mean that the whole construction industry must be condemned as exploitative and unfair? When people break the law in any industry, then the victims are free to complain to the police and the courts. And the porn industry is no different in this regard. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 2:25AM If your logic was extended into every other industry workers would be working for slave labor wages. Unknown pervert makes a good argument when he talks about the different lengths of time mainstream actors spend on a set compared to porn performers. Using examples of some of the worst behavior of performers is a red herring though. [Link] |
| eyeballs a bleeding Deactivated Again 181 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 2:51AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 3:04AM Some may say there is no 'value' in a porn performers labor but since people are willing to pay for DVDs and VOD there is obviously some value in what they do. Especially if the claims that it is a 'multi-billion' dollar industry are true (and I'm not convinced that they are). Of course, today because of the over saturation of the market, the internet and free downloading/theft, a lot of producers aren't making the money they once did but I have trouble feeling too much sympathy for some of them since it seems likely they've been underpaying a lot of performers over the years and got rich doing it. But this is going in circles so I'm going to step out of this thread now.  [Link] |
| Manuel Ferrara Member 94 Posts 2/03 | Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 11:06AM what do you mean, de bella, you couldn't stop it? somebody had a gun to your head and forced you? people would really say anything to get attention. that makes me laugh when you guys say poor exploited performers, when all of us that said something on this topic, were positive about the situation we have been in in this business. tell me what other job than this one allows a majority of uneducated people to make more money than lawyers. thank you for caring but i think in general we are happy. manuel [Link] |
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