pornstars who hated making their scenes (page 2)

Author	Post
tbetts12 Member 87 Posts 11/10	Posted - May 21 2011 : 6:22PM RandomPrecision wrote: tbetts12 wrote: and also the shame of returning to the real world and civilians people judgement. Click to expand Oh, you mean people like you? Click to expand dude i said in that same paragraph that americas shame about sex is stupid. just because a porn fan has a different view point and is concerned about the welfare of performers does not make him anti-porn. like i said,I know most of the girls arent thrilled to sleep with guys like ed powers and rodney moore,I just wrather them not be miserable. this is just like the condoms arguement where the pro-condom crowd gets accused of being anti-porn. [Link]
angryassdrummer Member 559 Posts 3/11	Posted - May 30 2011 : 3:37AM katja posted several comments on twitter this weekend about hating porn the whole time she was in it, was only due to low self esteem. seemed she was trying to gt sympathy poor me poor me. i usually do feel sorry for someone in a situation they doesnt want to be in...but it just came across as she was embaressed of her porn past. any star who can retire from porn and be proud of it...not deny their porn past i commend [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 30 2011 : 10:51AM ^ Well that's good, because she said quite clearly that she didn't want anyone to feel sorry for her. [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - May 30 2011 : 11:49AM You know, sometimes people grow and change their mind about what they've done. There is not necessarily a conflict with a performer claiming to enjoy their stint in porn while they're in it, and then later claiming to regret having done it. I'm sure there are many, many things people do that feel like they're a great idea at the time, that, in retrospect, were a colossal waste of time, or worse. A person could mature, address issues of insecurity and self esteem, and discover that the only reason they did something was that it held those bad feelings about self at bay. Sometimes the lack of negative input feels like positive input. Only when real positives and negatives can be recognized can the pros and cons of a situation be seen. [Link]

shinebox101 Member 198 Posts 11/07	Posted - May 30 2011 : 4:45PM Allie sin. she always found a way to make me feel sorry for her and I couldnt watch any of her scenes. [Link]
KatjaKassin Senior Member 1257 Posts 5/03	Posted - May 31 2011 : 12:58AM Thanks Kimi, that exactly how I feel. there's no reason to feel sorry. I am great, better than I have ever been in my life. I'm very happy, just finished the semester and ready for my summer break. I don't regret anything, I don't feel bad. And the reason why I can say this, is that I am able to evaluate everything in retrospective looking back at it and making a conclusion for myself. Just like Kimi said. I realized my reasons why I was in porn, why I stayed in it for so long and why I even thought at the time it was a great idea. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's actually a total normal thing to do and also very important for personal growth. Life is not a stagnant, constant adding up of never changing elements - at least it shouldn't be. This doesn't mean I lived these years of my life with the daily thought on my mind about how horrible things were, it's not at all like that. But I must say I wasn't happy. It's very difficult to realize it in the moment especially if you don't even know what happiness should feel like. And how would you know if you're doing the right thing if you don't know what exactly it is that you are looking for? I don't look at porn as a mistake, more like a detour that I could have spared myself if I knew back then what I know now. But that's totally hypothetical. Maybe it was me finding happiness by first learning what I don't want and what does not make me happy. And when I say I wasn't happy, that doesn't mean I was unhappy. There comes a point in life though where ok is not enough anymore; where you just want more than that. That's what happened. I grew out of the old shoes that were just ok but didn't fit me perfectly. The problem is that people don't differentiate enough and tend to think in black and white categories and that is really not the way that I want to be looked at. Steve Jobs said something like this: "If you look in the mirror each morning and you don't like what you see for too many days in a row, you know it's time to change something." that's exactly what I did. It's no shame to make a wrong decision because how right or wrong it was only shows after the fact, but in the very moment that you realize it's not right for you, you have to act on it and change it. That's why I don't feel sorry for myself and don't want anybody else to to so. I absolutely did the right thing and that's how I truly feel. Edited by - KatjaKassin on 5/31/2011 1:02:06 AM [Link]
dogzcatcher All-Star Member Fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round! 1551 Posts 5/09	Posted - May 31 2011 : 6:11AM ^ I love to read Katja's posts! Same with Kimi's posts on this subject. Both chose to go to college. When I read about the fate of actresses, who take their own lives, for one reason or the other, I remember those who survived that time in their life, like these two beautiful women. [Link]
tbetts12 Member 87 Posts 11/10	Posted - May 31 2011 : 1:41PM I think a good soloution for actresses who want to move on after porn is to have facial plastic surgery and legally change there name and just act like porn didnt happen. I know a woman who did that online and she is happily married with kids. though she does feel a little strange sometimes looking in the mirror to a different face. but atleast she doesnt have to deal with ppl judging her. [Link]
JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08	Posted - May 31 2011 : 2:50PM tbetts12 wrote: I think a good soloution for actresses who want to move on after porn is to have facial plastic surgery and legally change there name and just act like porn didnt happen. I know a woman who did that online and she is happily married with kids. though she does feel a little strange sometimes looking in the mirror to a different face. but atleast she doesnt have to deal with ppl judging her. Click to expand Your initial post didn't make much sense, but this is pure bullshit. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - May 31 2011 : 3:12PM tbetts12 wrote: atleast she doesnt have to deal with ppl judging her. Click to expand Everybody has to deal with people judging them. It sounds to me like you think Katja can't handle it, which, if you knew her at all, you would know is just ridiculous. [Link]
tbetts12 Member 87 Posts 11/10	Posted - May 31 2011 : 4:15PM Hardware wrote: tbetts12 wrote: atleast she doesnt have to deal with ppl judging her. Click to expand Everybody has to deal with people judging them. It sounds to me like you think Katja can't handle it, which, if you knew her at all, you would know is just ridiculous. Click to expand I wasnt referring to katja with that post. but if a girl doesnt want to deal with the after effects of porn that might be a viable soloution. They do that in federal witness protection programs all the time. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - May 31 2011 : 5:47PM My apologies, then. [Link]
KatjaKassin Senior Member 1257 Posts 5/03	Posted - May 31 2011 : 10:52PM In the end of the day you always have to deal with the after effects of your past decisions some of which won't be easily disguised by "facial surgery". Porn is not that big of a deal. There are many decisions I didn't make in my life like ever taking drugs or having a child too early in my life. Porn is something you can quit doing which can't be said of some other irreversible decisions a person can possibly make. Changing yourself and denying yourself are two different things and the latter is where I draw the line for myself. I as a person totally stand by myself as a whole including the things I have done in the past, the ones I am passionate about right now and the ones I am planning on doing in the future. This is part of being a responsible grown up. I am not trying to run away from what I did, I just quit. And me leaving is not some kind of contradiction, I quit because I finally understood that I have something better to do. That's a very important difference. [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 3:47AM Thank you for posting that Katja. It's very easy for people to misinterpret someone else words, especially in this modern world of soundbites and instant communications. Glad you were around to clear things up. I wish you nothing but happiness in your new journey. A lot of people become comfortable but complacent in their life doing what is simply there or familiar. In life, all things must change. [Link]

shank Member 119 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 5:20AM I dont know if its only me, but Amy Fisher of recent fame is a another one who dont seem very comfortable with what shes doing. Her heart is not in it, and the mechanically repeating "f*ck my pussy baby, thats it baby" and her eyes turned blankly to the ceiling or wall convey her real feeling. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 2:49PM After reading Katja post here, I think she sounds very intelligent and I wish her all the best. You can't fault someone for improving themselves. If you don't like her scenes,or think she wasn't giving enough, don't watch them, that is really not her problem. It is obvious that the original post contains words she never used. She is clearly not in misery and never said she hated anything. I wish her the best of luck in everything she does. [Link]
Dr_Fell Member 545 Posts 6/08	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 3:25PM One thing is clear. Tbetts12 and others with poor reading and critical thinking skills should let Katja Kassin speak for herself. [Link]
tbetts12 Member 87 Posts 11/10	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 6:22PM Dr_Fell wrote: One thing is clear. Tbetts12 and others with poor reading and critical thinking skills should let Katja Kassin speak for herself. Click to expand she posted something on her twitter. I reacted plus pornstars hating the industry afterwards is n a common occurence,shelly lubben,penny flame,sierra sinn etc and others. have all came out against the industry and bella donna broke down on abc. Katja cleared up her statements and explained the context of her statements. isssue solved. [Link]
Dr_Fell Member 545 Posts 6/08	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 8:22PM ^ You could have stopped the confusion you started had you done more searching on Twitter and here and also had you rephrased a question that has been asked in different iterations on this BB many times. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 8:47PM I don't see where any of this is that big a deal but it's easy to see why someone reading a few lines someone wrote on Twitter can be taken the way the way it was. It's a complex topic that can't be explained with just a few words or out of context. [Link]
ChrisMatt420 Member 17 Posts 12/10	Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 9:25PM Yeah, Belladonna clearly hates porn.............. Rolls eyes Anyway, thank you, Ms. Kassin, for explaining things or expanding on them. Not that you owed anyone that, but it helps fans see where you are: in a good place and at peace. Which is all any decent fan should want for you. Not everyone adjusts well or handles things rights. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 12:14PM tbetts12 wrote: Dr_Fell wrote: One thing is clear. Tbetts12 and others with poor reading and critical thinking skills should let Katja Kassin speak for herself. Click to expand she posted something on her twitter. I reacted plus pornstars hating the industry afterwards is n a common occurence,shelly lubben,penny flame,sierra sinn etc and others. have all came out against the industry and bella donna broke down on abc. Katja cleared up her statements and explained the context of her statements. isssue solved. Click to expand A common place occurrence? Shelly Lubben found her career in speaking out against porn, that is how she makes her money, because frankly her scenes sucked and she couldn't make it in porn. You named 4 women out of 10,000. I'm not sure I would say it is common place. I really wish people would own their bad decisions instead of blaming others for their mistakes. I have known Bella Donna for over ten years, if she hated this business, she deserves an Oscar for acting liked she loved every minute. This business is not for everybody, clearly, but if you are an adult, and you made the leap to get in, own up to it. As for Katja, yes she posted something on her twitter, it just wasn't what you said it was. Katja cleared up what you incorrectly stated. [Link]
Black Market Danny Member BlackMarketxxx.com 92 Posts 5/11	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 2:43PM Sometimes it's not always the girls who hate their scenes. I remember we shot Shorty Mac with an un-named star and he could barely finish the scene because her pussy stank so bad. People left the set because it was so stinky. Had to pay extra for "hazzard pay". [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 7:45PM The problem isn't porn itself. It's mostly how so many people in the general public feel about porn. They've decided it's a horrible thing so it's just preceived that way and has become a reality even to some of the people that do it. Sure, for some girls who are forced to do acts they don't like or with people they don't like I imagine it could be unpleasant at times. But for the girls who are in position to say who they want to work with and what they want to do...is t really a bad way to make a living? Really...Take away the public stigma and judgement and they're actually getting paid to do something many people spend a lot of time and effort doing or trying to do for free. If people hadn't decided that making porn is a disgraceful career choice and gotten mostly everyone to buy into that line of thinking being a pornstar with be considered one of the best jobs ever...if you aren't forced into acts you don't like. [Link]

David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 8:14PM ^ I don't think you can take away the stigma and judgement and this is probably the biggest reason some ex-performers go to such great lengths to distance themselves from their porn past. Which is why you must appreciate just how big a deal it is for a girl to have sex for your viewing pleasure. [Link]
Algaliarept Senior Member 3557 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 8:57PM case in point [Link]
10000 days Deactivated User Keep on trolling. What a bullshit! Im fucking unstoppable now ... 717 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 9:51PM First I stopped doing boys. What a relief that was for me. I honestly felt that if I had to have another strange man’s cock in my face, his hands (god knows where they’ve been) all over me, him calling me his “baby”, and having to exude some sort of forged passion for the world to see... Click to expand Ah, l'amour! [Link]
NeonToastForaWhiteGhost Deactivated User 32 Posts 6/11	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 10:25PM There will always be people who blame their mistakes and idiotic choices on others. Having said that I feel porn at it's very essence is a predatory institution that feeds on many feeble minded and broken individuals. How else would middle aged men be able to talk so many young girls into performing sexual acts that now border on freak shows,if that's not what they are already? I'm always puzzled how people who consider themselves informed individuals seem to blank out the sordid details perhaps to absolve themselves of any responsibility. Don't accuse me of being on a high horse because i'm just as guilty. I'm willing to admit it though. I just wish modern pornography didn't have to be about turning women into rag dolls being pistoned repeatedly,brutally fucked until their insides start pushing outward. How much is enough? Where exactly are we heading? I also wonder how on Earth purveyors of porn systematically programmed legions of supposedly heterosexual men with an almost insatiable desire ........to see women with vaginas consistently fucked in the ass. Not just fucked in the ass but brutalized,gaped,'destroyed.' It's disconcerting and frankly to me reeks of some latent homosexuality urges,or at least a strong hatred of women. We can kid ourselves and say 18-22 year old mostly uneducated and unsophisticated young people should be able to handle themselves and their decisions just fine. The truth is they're ripe pickings and most of us honestly could care less. We just want them to swallow everything with all of their holes. [Link]
Anus Member 69 Posts 5/11	Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 11:37PM ^ Some people aren't honest with themselves. Some don't care and never will. Some who otherwise would care have a persecution complex because of too many encounters with judgmental crusaders telling them that there's something wrong with them and/or the stuff they're watching. People become stubborn and angry when they're confronted in such a way. Ultimately, trying to force people to change against their will is a foolish endeavor; the best, most lasting change must come from within. FWIW, I avoid the questionable stuff by choice. [Link]
fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jun 3 2011 : 12:17AM hollywood woody wrote: I really wish people would own their bad decisions instead of blaming others for their mistakes. Click to expand [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 3 2011 : 12:20PM Draxxx wrote: The problem isn't porn itself. It's mostly how so many people in the general public feel about porn. They've decided it's a horrible thing so it's just preceived that way and has become a reality even to some of the people that do it. Sure, for some girls who are forced to do acts they don't like or with people they don't like I imagine it could be unpleasant at times. But for the girls who are in position to say who they want to work with and what they want to do...is t really a bad way to make a living? Really...Take away the public stigma and judgement and they're actually getting paid to do something many people spend a lot of time and effort doing or trying to do for free. If people hadn't decided that making porn is a disgraceful career choice and gotten mostly everyone to buy into that line of thinking being a pornstar with be considered one of the best jobs ever...if you aren't forced into acts you don't like. Click to expand The mainstreaming of porn over the last 20 years has been tremendous, it doesn't hold the stigma it once did. In our business, and with the movies we make, NO ONE is forced to do anything they don't want to do. They have a very clear choice, each girl who is hired has a list of what she will and will not do, they know way before showing up on the set who they are working with and what they will be doing, if they don't like either, they can cancel. So to even imply that they may be forced to do anything is not right. In Europe porn stars are Stars, they have even run for public office. Case in point, Cincolina or however you spell her name. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 3 2011 : 12:45PM NeonToastForaWhiteGhost wrote: There will always be people who blame their mistakes and idiotic choices on others. Having said that I feel porn at it's very essence is a predatory institution that feeds on many feeble minded and broken individuals. How else would middle aged men be able to talk so many young girls into performing sexual acts that now border on freak shows,if that's not what they are already? I'm always puzzled how people who consider themselves informed individuals seem to blank out the sordid details perhaps to absolve themselves of any responsibility. Don't accuse me of being on a high horse because i'm just as guilty. I'm willing to admit it though. I just wish modern pornography didn't have to be about turning women into rag dolls being pistoned repeatedly,brutally fucked until their insides start pushing outward. How much is enough? Where exactly are we heading? I also wonder how on Earth purveyors of porn systematically programmed legions of supposedly heterosexual men with an almost insatiable desire ........to see women with vaginas consistently fucked in the ass. Not just fucked in the ass but brutalized,gaped,'destroyed.' It's disconcerting and frankly to me reeks of some latent homosexuality urges,or at least a strong hatred of women. We can kid ourselves and say 18-22 year old mostly uneducated and unsophisticated young people should be able to handle themselves and their decisions just fine. The truth is they're ripe pickings and most of us honestly could care less. We just want them to swallow everything with all of their holes. Click to expand If this is your view, why do you watch porn? Also what DVDs are you watching? This ripe for the picking mindset is disturbing to me. We do not sit at the Greyhound station waiting for the bus to come in from Bumfuck Iowa and approach every or any girl that looks like she is lost and landed in Hollywood. The opposite is mostly true, we get calls, hundreds of calls and emails on a weekly basis from people that want to get into the business. A lot of them are actually turned away. Again, people need to take responsibility for their actions, if you email and send pictures and call a porno company asking to make movies, you are going to end up making movies. If you go to a strip club to dance, you are going to end up stripping and dancing. You make us out to be predators, and that is just not the case. Is it my fault someone is uneducated and wants to make a living? No. Which also is somewhat insulting, your generalization of the women in this business, uneducated and unsophisticated, is also way off base. Just FYI, there are a lot of actors that are guilty of higher education, that just didn't like their job options. Asia Karrera was one that comes to mind, she was a concert pianist, graduated college, had a very high IQ, but loved to have sex on camera. Christy Canyon, who invested her money bought real estate and is right now very wealthy. Jenna Jameson sold a company for $40 million dollars, and she didn't do it because she was stupid. Actually some of the most intelligent people I have ever met are in this business and have been in this business. You have a very dim view of the adult business, and with all due respect, one that has not been really researched by you. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jun 4 2011 : 6:24AM Black Market Danny wrote: Sometimes it's not always the girls who hate their scenes. I remember we shot Shorty Mac with an un-named star and he could barely finish the scene because her pussy stank so bad. People left the set because it was so stinky. Had to pay extra for "hazzard pay". Click to expand Sorry man, I should have douched that day. [Link]
NeonToastForaWhiteGhost Deactivated User 32 Posts 6/11	Posted - Jun 4 2011 : 7:20AM HW, My opinion is that your opinions are just as heavy handed and biased. Yours just go in the opposite direction as mine. Different people,different opinions. Nothing wrong with that. [Link]

Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jun 4 2011 : 2:35PM BlackSix wrote: Sorry man, I should have douched that day. Click to expand If it's so bad that her pussy is stinking up an entire room, she probably needed antibiotics too. So instead of sending a sick person home, you shoot the scene, pay people extra and then have a gross story to laugh about afterwards. [Link]
shrubage Member 11 Posts 5/11	Posted - Jun 5 2011 : 11:57AM There was an extremely pretty scottish girl (who only worked in the US)called 'Rose Petal' that did a couple of videos in 2002... She blatantly wasn't into it and I was always curious how she stumbled into porn. What really struck me about her was her upper class Scottish accent and the way she seemed to look down on the guys fucking her. http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=rosepetal/gender=f/rose-petal.htm [Link]
sh_rock Member we the people in order to form a more perfect union... 518 Posts 12/03	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 5:03AM Black Market Danny wrote: Sometimes it's not always the girls who hate their scenes. I remember we shot Shorty Mac with an un-named star and he could barely finish the scene because her pussy stank so bad. People left the set because it was so stinky. Had to pay extra for "hazzard pay". Click to expand i wonder how many times that day did shorty mac tell the girl "you nasty"? on a serious note does anyone know of a woman, after completely leaving porn, who has written or has spoken about her overwhelming positive experiences while she was in the industry? if you do let us know because i don't know of any such woman. Edited by - sh_rock on 6/6/2011 5:04:48 AM [Link]
Algaliarept Senior Member 3557 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 6:43AM shrubage wrote: There was an extremely pretty scottish girl (who only worked in the US)called 'Rose Petal' that did a couple of videos in 2002... She blatantly wasn't into it and I was always curious how she stumbled into porn. What really struck me about her was her upper class Scottish accent and the way she seemed to look down on the guys fucking her. Click to expand Oddly, now I want to buy something that she was in just so I can hear what an "upper class Scottish accent" sounds like. They all pretty much sound like the same accent to me, but I guess to many a European out there, most Americans sound alike as well. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 12:50PM NeonToastForaWhiteGhost wrote: HW, My opinion is that your opinions are just as heavy handed and biased. Yours just go in the opposite direction as mine. Different people,different opinions. Nothing wrong with that. Click to expand So instead of addressing what I asked you, you decided to tell me your opinion of my opinions. Also I was stating facts, after doing this for 25 years I can back it up with years of relationships with the performers. I really wish you would have answered some of my questions and maybe how you formed such strong opinions. Where did you get the notion that women are forced to do anything? [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 1:22PM hollywood woody wrote: The mainstreaming of porn over the last 20 years has been tremendous, it doesn't hold the stigma it once did. In our business, and with the movies we make, NO ONE is forced to do anything they don't want to do. They have a very clear choice, each girl who is hired has a list of what she will and will not do, they know way before showing up on the set who they are working with and what they will be doing, if they don't like either, they can cancel. So to even imply that they may be forced to do anything is not right. In Europe porn stars are Stars, they have even run for public office. Case in point, Cincolina or however you spell her name. Click to expand You're kinda missing the point of what I was saying. I was saying I don't see porn as a bad gig unless the performers were being forced to do stuff they didn't want to. I didn't say the were forced to do stuff they don't want to. But...while the word "forced" may be too strong a word, it seems that nearly every porn performer has stories of doing things they didn't particularly like or found to be pleasant. No one "forced" them to do anything but the certainly may have felt pressured in some away to do things hey might not have want to do. A girl might not be able to comfortably take a anal from a large performer but the director will coax her on or she doesn't want her pain to ruin the shoot. Perhaps a new girl has to put up with sex she thinks is too rough because if she says "no" she thinks she won't get any more work. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that could make doing porn unpleasant for some girls. Yes, no one is "forcing" them to do things but they do end up doing stuff they don't want to. Despite a list of what they'll do or won't do it's fairly common for performers to feel pressure to do things they really don't want to do. [Link]
shrubage Member 11 Posts 5/11	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 1:24PM Algaliarept wrote: case in point Click to expand I've just had a read of her blog and to be honest it's a bit of an eye opener.... at least with regards to whether pornstars fake whatever pleasure they're showing on camera.... I've got a few of her videos and it prompted me to look at them again in an effort to see if I could spot the disgust that she said she was feeling when she performed.. I had to have another strange man’s cock in my face, his hands (god knows where they’ve been) all over me, him calling me his “baby”, and having to exude some sort of forged passion for the world to see Click to expand To be honest though I don't see any more in her scenes after reading her blogs than the first time.... I've never really rater her as a great performer... Yeah she had a great personality and even some acting ability but her scenes were repitive and limited.... To be honest I think she's more interesting in her blog giving her insights into being a performer than on screen. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 2:33PM Draxxx wrote: hollywood woody wrote: The mainstreaming of porn over the last 20 years has been tremendous, it doesn't hold the stigma it once did. In our business, and with the movies we make, NO ONE is forced to do anything they don't want to do. They have a very clear choice, each girl who is hired has a list of what she will and will not do, they know way before showing up on the set who they are working with and what they will be doing, if they don't like either, they can cancel. So to even imply that they may be forced to do anything is not right. In Europe porn stars are Stars, they have even run for public office. Case in point, Cincolina or however you spell her name. Click to expand You're kinda missing the point of what I was saying. I was saying I don't see porn as a bad gig unless the performers were being forced to do stuff they didn't want to. I didn't say the were forced to do stuff they don't want to. But...while the word "forced" may be too strong a word, it seems that nearly every porn performer has stories of doing things they didn't particularly like or found to be pleasant. No one "forced" them to do anything but the certainly may have felt pressured in some away to do things hey might not have want to do. A girl might not be able to comfortably take a anal from a large performer but the director will coax her on or she doesn't want her pain to ruin the shoot. Perhaps a new girl has to put up with sex she thinks is too rough because if she says "no" she thinks she won't get any more work. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that could make doing porn unpleasant for some girls. Yes, no one is "forcing" them to do things but they do end up doing stuff they don't want to. Despite a list of what they'll do or won't do it's fairly common for performers to feel pressure to do things they really don't want to do. Click to expand Understood, but when you use the word force, it con-notates something that someone is doing against their will. Coaxing or prodding is different than forcing, yet they still can say no. We all have to do things in our job that we would rather not do, that is why it is a job. This is a business, the men and women that decide to go into this business need to do their homework, just like in any business. This is a career move. Once you decide you want in, it is very hard to unring the bell. I really didn't miss your point, you said "unless they were being forced to do stuff they don't want to do", I got that, and I am telling you no one is forced to do anything they don't want to do. A girl who says no to any request will still get work, there is no black balling so to speak. Some girls only do G/G, they work. It is not really that common for performers to get pressured into anything. It seems you agree and disagree at the same time. If anal in not on the list for Jane Doe, when she shows up to the shoot she will not be asked to do anal. If she is asked, she says no. Then usually says, " well how much will you pay me?" That is not being pressured, it is negotiations. [Link]
mapofhawaii Senior Member 1050 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 3:09PM Unless I missed it, Penny Flame (Jennie Ketcham) never disavowed the industry or said that she hated doing her scenes. Last I heard, her position was that she was messed up from abuse in her childhood, which manifested itself in very early and misdirected sexuality well before her porn career. She had chosen to leave porn to get her life straight, but I never heard her blame the business or anything like that. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 4:21PM Draxxx wrote: I didn't say the were forced to do stuff they don't want to. But...while the word "forced" may be too strong a word, it seems that nearly every porn performer has stories of doing things they didn't particularly like or found to be pleasant. Click to expand And nearly every human being you talk to (if you bothered to ask them) has had the exact same experience at one time or another. No one "forced" them to do anything but the certainly may have felt pressured in some away to do things hey might not have want to do. Click to expand But that isn't the same thing and you know it. 1. If you go to work at a hamburger joint and find the work there unpleasant, you could make a halfway fair point by complaining that you didn't realize it was actually going to be unpleasant (Even if it should be common sense). 2. You can't really make the same argument about porn. Anyone with an internet connection (and almost everyone who's likely to wind up in porn obviously has one) can take a few hours out of one day, download some porn and see exactly what it's like. Now if you were a female (I actually don't know if you are or not) thinking about doing porn, can you honestly tell me it would never cross your mind to check it out before you do it? 3. If watching some porn wasn't enough, the girls who are lining up to be performers obviously know where to find other porn performers because they found the people who make the porn. If they haven't talked to another performer by the time they do their first scene, they will certainly have a chance to before long. Can you honestly tell me it would never cross your mind to ask other performers what kind of experiences they've had doing porn? A girl might not be able to comfortably take a anal from a large performer but the director will coax her on or she doesn't want her pain to ruin the shoot. Click to expand The chances are if this director wants her to do anal with a guy who has a big cock, this director shoots anal with big cocks for a living. Maybe she should have checked his web site for 5 minutes? Now you can argue that the director may have promised her he wouldn't ask her to do anal and that probably happens but again, if every scene he shoots is an anal scene with a big cock, why would she expect hers to be different? Wouldn't it make more sense for her to assume he's lying than for her to assume he's going to make an exception for her out of 300 girls he's shot? I really hate to seem like I'm defending a liar here but at what point do we expect people to stand up for themselves? You see it every day in real life. If you don't stand up to people it's perceived to be tacit consent. Perhaps a new girl has to put up with sex she thinks is too rough because if she says "no" she thinks she won't get any more work. Click to expand I'm not in the biz so I can't say for sure but my gut instinct is that this is bullshit. There are people who shoot softcore (and softer hardcore) and you often see the same girls in softcore shoot as in hardcore shoots. There are people who are known for softer stuff only every bit as much as someone like Khan Tusion was known for really rough and edgy stuff. At any rate, I often see the same girls turning up in rough scenes over and over. In fact, many of them seem to do exclusively rough scenes. Even if they by some chance got "tricked" the first time, that doesn't work for 10 scenes shot by the same guy. Yes, no one is "forcing" them to do things Click to expand This is the bottom line that you're trying to avoid. But it's the bottom line whether you like it or not. You may be able to delude yourself (and others) into believing it isn't so but you're not fooling me. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 5:14PM ^ Random has hit the nail on the head with the hammer. The bottom line is no one in life is forced to do anything they don't want to do. You make choices, no one makes them for you. Sometimes you make the wrong choice, you learn from it and move on. The problem comes in when you keep on making the wrong choice about the same thing and expect a different outcome. If you can't responsibility for your own decisions than you need to grow up. I have more respect for someone who says, "You know what, I did it, I own it, and I was wrong," that someone who says " you know what, I did it and it is everyones fault but my own." [Link]
jfarley Member 242 Posts 5/09	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 9:19PM hollywood woody wrote: The bottom line is no one in life is forced to do anything they don't want to do. Click to expand Substitute "life" with "porn", and that statement is still false. Illegal sex trafficking gangs do force women to do things they don't want to do, with threats of violence against themselves or their family, forced addiction to hard drugs, confiscated passports, etc.. There is a whole spectrum of coercion that can be applied, and it is worth questioning where the ethical boundaries lie. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 11:17PM hollywood woody wrote: ^ Random has hit the nail on the head with the hammer. The bottom line is no one in life is forced to do anything they don't want to do. You make choices, no one makes them for you. Sometimes you make the wrong choice, you learn from it and move on. The problem comes in when you keep on making the wrong choice about the same thing and expect a different outcome. If you can't responsibility for your own decisions than you need to grow up. I have more respect for someone who says, "You know what, I did it, I own it, and I was wrong," that someone who says " you know what, I did it and it is everyones fault but my own." Click to expand Most of what you say is true but that doesn't mean that the girls don't feel pressure to do things they might not want to do or might not like. Some go along with it and some don't. In most cases it doesn't end up being a big deal but there are times it does. This is starting to drift off track. I originally said what I said in regards to what Katja said about not liking shooting porn. I said I don't think shooting porn is such a bad gig if you aren't being forced to do things you don't want to. But I then clearified it to "doing things you don't want to or like" because I felt "forced" wasn't quite the right word. So yes, I can understand someone not liking to do scenes if they are doing stuff they don't like in order to keep getting work, to please the director or not ruin the scene. I'm not saying those things are painful or dangerous or demeaning or anything ofthe sort. I'm just saying they're doing stuff they don't like. In some cases it's not that they didn't want to stand up for themselves it's a matter of wanting to do a good job. I've heard many pornstars tell stories of doing stuff they didn't want to do and have seen BTS stuff of girls trying to do stuff that wasn't comfortable or pleasant to them as the director coaxed them on. Sometimes it was because they didn't know any better or because they were new and didn't know they had the power and right to say no. I've even heard older pornstars say they have talks with new girls to tell them they don't have do things they don't want to. So I'm going to tend to believe the stuff I've heard from the actual performers over what some people are saying here. I'm not saying it's always a bad thing or that the girls don't have the right or ability to say no. All I'm saying is it isn't always cut and dry and it does happen. [Link]
freakdude28 Member 145 Posts 3/11	Posted - Jun 7 2011 : 2:44AM ^^^ Its a job though. Haven't you ever had a job where you did things you didn't want to do? [Link]
Algaliarept Senior Member 3557 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jun 7 2011 : 3:21AM [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jun 7 2011 : 12:29PM jfarley wrote: hollywood woody wrote: The bottom line is no one in life is forced to do anything they don't want to do. Click to expand Substitute "life" with "porn", and that statement is still false. Illegal sex trafficking gangs do force women to do things they don't want to do, with threats of violence against themselves or their family, forced addiction to hard drugs, confiscated passports, etc.. There is a whole spectrum of coercion that can be applied, and it is worth questioning where the ethical boundaries lie. Click to expand Ok you got me, people are forced to do things they don't want to do, then the people forcing them are breaking the law and if caught go to jail. That's not what I meant. Semantics. Without the threat of violence people have a choice as to what they will or will not do. Short of someone putting a gun to your head, you make your own decisions. In the adult industry today, I do not know of one company or director that forces anyone to do anything they do not want to do. If you know something I do not, please tell me the company or instance where a performer has been "forced" do do something they did not want to do. Be specific. [Link]

Author

Post

tbetts12
Member

87 Posts
11/10

Posted - May 21 2011 : 6:22PM

dude i said in that same paragraph
that americas shame about sex is stupid.
just because a porn fan has a different view point and is concerned
about the welfare of performers does not make him anti-porn.
like i said,I know most of the girls arent thrilled to sleep
with guys like ed powers and rodney moore,I just wrather them not
be miserable.
this is just like the condoms arguement where the pro-condom crowd gets accused of being anti-porn.

[Link]

angryassdrummer
Member

559 Posts
3/11

Posted - May 30 2011 : 3:37AM

katja posted several comments on twitter this weekend about hating porn the whole time she was in it, was only due to low self esteem. seemed she was trying to gt sympathy poor me poor me.
i usually do feel sorry for someone in a situation they doesnt want to be in...but it just came across as she was embaressed of her porn past.
any star who can retire from porn and be proud of it...not deny their porn past i commend

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - May 30 2011 : 10:51AM

^ Well that's good, because she said quite clearly that she didn't want anyone to feel sorry for her.

[Link]

Kimi Lixx
Senior Member

2012 Posts
6/01

Posted - May 30 2011 : 11:49AM

You know, sometimes people grow and change their mind about what they've done. There is not necessarily a conflict with a performer claiming to enjoy their stint in porn while they're in it, and then later claiming to regret having done it. I'm sure there are many, many things people do that feel like they're a great idea at the time, that, in retrospect, were a colossal waste of time, or worse.
A person could mature, address issues of insecurity and self esteem, and discover that the only reason they did something was that it held those bad feelings about self at bay. Sometimes the lack of negative input feels like positive input. Only when real positives and negatives can be recognized can the pros and cons of a situation be seen.

[Link]

shinebox101
Member

198 Posts
11/07

Posted - May 30 2011 : 4:45PM

Allie sin. she always found a way to make me feel sorry for her and I couldnt watch any of her scenes.

[Link]

KatjaKassin
Senior Member

1257 Posts
5/03

Posted - May 31 2011 : 12:58AM

Thanks Kimi, that exactly how I feel.
there's no reason to feel sorry. I am great, better than I have ever been in my life. I'm very happy, just finished the semester and ready for my summer break.
I don't regret anything, I don't feel bad. And the reason why I can say this, is that I am able to evaluate everything in retrospective looking back at it and making a conclusion for myself. Just like Kimi said. I realized my reasons why I was in porn, why I stayed in it for so long and why I even thought at the time it was a great idea. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's actually a total normal thing to do and also very important for personal growth. Life is not a stagnant, constant adding up of never changing elements - at least it shouldn't be.
This doesn't mean I lived these years of my life with the daily thought on my mind about how horrible things were, it's not at all like that. But I must say I wasn't happy. It's very difficult to realize it in the moment especially if you don't even know what happiness should feel like. And how would you know if you're doing the right thing if you don't know what exactly it is that you are looking for?
I don't look at porn as a mistake, more like a detour that I could have spared myself if I knew back then what I know now. But that's totally hypothetical. Maybe it was me finding happiness by first learning what I don't want and what does not make me happy.
And when I say I wasn't happy, that doesn't mean I was unhappy. There comes a point in life though where ok is not enough anymore; where you just want more than that. That's what happened. I grew out of the old shoes that were just ok but didn't fit me perfectly. The problem is that people don't differentiate enough and tend to think in black and white categories and that is really not the way that I want to be looked at.
Steve Jobs said something like this: "If you look in the mirror each morning and you don't like what you see for too many days in a row, you know it's time to change something." that's exactly what I did. It's no shame to make a wrong decision because how right or wrong it was only shows after the fact, but in the very moment that you realize it's not right for you, you have to act on it and change it.
That's why I don't feel sorry for myself and don't want anybody else to to so. I absolutely did the right thing and that's how I truly feel.

Edited by - KatjaKassin on 5/31/2011 1:02:06 AM

[Link]

dogzcatcher

All-Star Member

Fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round!
1551 Posts
5/09

Posted - May 31 2011 : 6:11AM

^
I love to read Katja's posts! Same with Kimi's posts on this subject.
Both chose to go to college.
When I read about the fate of actresses, who take their own lives, for one reason or the other, I remember those who survived that time in their life, like these two beautiful women.

[Link]

tbetts12
Member

87 Posts
11/10

Posted - May 31 2011 : 1:41PM

I think a good soloution for actresses who want to move on after porn
is to have facial plastic surgery and legally change there name and just act like
porn didnt happen. I know a woman who did that online and she is happily married with kids.
though she does feel a little strange sometimes looking in the mirror to a different face.
but atleast she doesnt have to deal with ppl judging her.

[Link]

JohnW
Senior Member

1351 Posts
6/08

Posted - May 31 2011 : 2:50PM

Your initial post didn't make much sense, but this is pure bullshit.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - May 31 2011 : 3:12PM

Everybody has to deal with people judging them. It sounds to me like you think Katja can't handle it, which, if you knew her at all, you would know is just ridiculous.

[Link]

tbetts12
Member

87 Posts
11/10

Posted - May 31 2011 : 4:15PM

I wasnt referring to katja with that post.
but if a girl doesnt want to deal with the after effects of porn that might be a viable soloution.
They do that in federal witness protection programs all the time.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - May 31 2011 : 5:47PM

My apologies, then.

[Link]

KatjaKassin
Senior Member

1257 Posts
5/03

Posted - May 31 2011 : 10:52PM

In the end of the day you always have to deal with the after effects of your past decisions some of which won't be easily disguised by "facial surgery". Porn is not that big of a deal. There are many decisions I didn't make in my life like ever taking drugs or having a child too early in my life. Porn is something you can quit doing which can't be said of some other irreversible decisions a person can possibly make.
Changing yourself and denying yourself are two different things and the latter is where I draw the line for myself.
I as a person totally stand by myself as a whole including the things I have done in the past, the ones I am passionate about right now and the ones I am planning on doing in the future. This is part of being a responsible grown up. I am not trying to run away from what I did, I just quit. And me leaving is not some kind of contradiction, I quit because I finally understood that I have something better to do. That's a very important difference.

[Link]

Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 3:47AM

Thank you for posting that Katja. It's very easy for people to misinterpret someone else words, especially in this modern world of soundbites and instant communications. Glad you were around to clear things up.
I wish you nothing but happiness in your new journey. A lot of people become comfortable but complacent in their life doing what is simply there or familiar. In life, all things must change.

[Link]

shank
Member

119 Posts
2/09

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 5:20AM

I dont know if its only me, but Amy Fisher of recent fame is a another one who dont seem very comfortable with what shes doing. Her heart is not in it, and the mechanically repeating "f*ck my pussy baby, thats it baby" and her eyes turned blankly to the ceiling or wall convey her real feeling.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 2:49PM

After reading Katja post here, I think she sounds very intelligent and I wish her all the best.
You can't fault someone for improving themselves.
If you don't like her scenes,or think she wasn't giving enough, don't watch them, that is really not her problem.
It is obvious that the original post contains words she never used.
She is clearly not in misery and never said she hated anything.
I wish her the best of luck in everything she does.

[Link]

Dr_Fell
Member

545 Posts
6/08

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 3:25PM

One thing is clear.
Tbetts12 and others with poor reading and critical thinking skills should let Katja Kassin speak for herself.

[Link]

tbetts12
Member

87 Posts
11/10

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 6:22PM

she posted something on her twitter. I reacted plus pornstars hating the industry
afterwards is n a common occurence,shelly lubben,penny flame,sierra sinn etc and others.
have all came out against the industry and bella donna broke down on abc.
Katja cleared up her statements and explained the context of her statements.
isssue solved.

[Link]

Dr_Fell
Member

545 Posts
6/08

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 8:22PM

^ You could have stopped the confusion you started had you done more searching on Twitter and here and also had you rephrased a question that has been asked in different iterations on this BB many times.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 8:47PM

I don't see where any of this is that big a deal but it's easy to see why someone reading a few lines someone wrote on Twitter can be taken the way the way it was. It's a complex topic that can't be explained with just a few words or out of context.

[Link]

ChrisMatt420
Member

17 Posts
12/10

Posted - Jun 1 2011 : 9:25PM

Yeah, Belladonna clearly hates porn.............. *Rolls eyes*
Anyway, thank you, Ms. Kassin, for explaining things or expanding on them. Not that you owed anyone that, but it helps fans see where you are: in a good place and at peace. Which is all any decent fan should want for you. Not everyone adjusts well or handles things rights.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 12:14PM

A common place occurrence? Shelly Lubben found her career in speaking out against porn, that is how she makes her money, because frankly her scenes sucked and she couldn't make it in porn. You named 4 women out of 10,000.
I'm not sure I would say it is common place. I really wish people would own their bad decisions instead of blaming others for their mistakes. I have known Bella Donna for over ten years, if she hated this business, she deserves an Oscar for acting liked she loved every minute.
This business is not for everybody, clearly, but if you are an adult, and you made the leap to get in, own up to it.
As for Katja, yes she posted something on her twitter, it just wasn't what you said it was. Katja cleared up what you incorrectly stated.

[Link]

Black Market Danny
Member

BlackMarketxxx.com
92 Posts
5/11

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 2:43PM

Sometimes it's not always the girls who hate their scenes. I remember we shot Shorty Mac with an un-named star and he could barely finish the scene because her pussy stank so bad. People left the set because it was so stinky. Had to pay extra for "hazzard pay".

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 7:45PM

The problem isn't porn itself. It's mostly how so many people in the general public feel about porn. They've decided it's a horrible thing so it's just preceived that way and has become a reality even to some of the people that do it. Sure, for some girls who are forced to do acts they don't like or with people they don't like I imagine it could be unpleasant at times. But for the girls who are in position to say who they want to work with and what they want to do...is t really a bad way to make a living? Really...Take away the public stigma and judgement and they're actually getting paid to do something many people spend a lot of time and effort doing or trying to do for free. If people hadn't decided that making porn is a disgraceful career choice and gotten mostly everyone to buy into that line of thinking being a pornstar with be considered one of the best jobs ever...if you aren't forced into acts you don't like.

[Link]

David Cop-a-feel
Deactivated User

Trust me, honey, it gets better
323 Posts
10/10

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 8:14PM

^
I don't think you can take away the stigma and judgement and this is probably the biggest reason some ex-performers go to such great lengths to distance themselves from their porn past. Which is why you must appreciate just how big a deal it is for a girl to have sex for your viewing pleasure.

[Link]

Algaliarept
Senior Member

3557 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 8:57PM

case in point

[Link]

10000 days
Deactivated User

Keep on trolling. What a bullshit! Im fucking unstoppable now ...
717 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 9:51PM

Ah, l'amour!

[Link]

NeonToastForaWhiteGhost
Deactivated User

32 Posts
6/11

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 10:25PM

There will always be people who blame their mistakes and idiotic choices on others. Having said that I feel porn at it's very essence is a predatory institution that feeds on many feeble minded and broken individuals. How else would middle aged men be able to talk so many young girls into performing sexual acts that now border on freak shows,if that's not what they are already? I'm always puzzled how people who consider themselves informed individuals seem to blank out the sordid details perhaps to absolve themselves of any responsibility. Don't accuse me of being on a high horse because i'm just as guilty. I'm willing to admit it though.
I just wish modern pornography didn't have to be about turning women into rag dolls being pistoned repeatedly,brutally fucked until their insides start pushing outward. How much is enough? Where exactly are we heading? I also wonder how on Earth purveyors of porn systematically programmed legions of supposedly heterosexual men with an almost insatiable desire ........to see women with vaginas consistently fucked in the ass. Not just fucked in the ass but brutalized,gaped,'destroyed.' It's disconcerting and frankly to me reeks of some latent homosexuality urges,or at least a strong hatred of women.
We can kid ourselves and say 18-22 year old mostly uneducated and unsophisticated young people should be able to handle themselves and their decisions just fine. The truth is they're ripe pickings and most of us honestly could care less. We just want them to swallow everything with all of their holes.

[Link]

Anus
Member

69 Posts
5/11

Posted - Jun 2 2011 : 11:37PM

^ Some people aren't honest with themselves. Some don't care and never will. Some who otherwise would care have a persecution complex because of too many encounters with judgmental crusaders telling them that there's something wrong with them and/or the stuff they're watching. People become stubborn and angry when they're confronted in such a way. Ultimately, trying to force people to change against their will is a foolish endeavor; the best, most lasting change must come from within.
FWIW, I avoid the questionable stuff by choice.

[Link]

fu_q

All-Star Member

Marv Montag (@PornOfYore)
2506 Posts
2/09

Posted - Jun 3 2011 : 12:17AM

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 3 2011 : 12:20PM

Draxxx wrote:
The problem isn't porn itself. It's mostly how so many people in the general public feel about porn. They've decided it's a horrible thing so it's just preceived that way and has become a reality even to some of the people that do it. Sure, for some girls who are forced to do acts they don't like or with people they don't like I imagine it could be unpleasant at times. But for the girls who are in position to say who they want to work with and what they want to do...is t really a bad way to make a living? Really...Take away the public stigma and judgement and they're actually getting paid to do something many people spend a lot of time and effort doing or trying to do for free. If people hadn't decided that making porn is a disgraceful career choice and gotten mostly everyone to buy into that line of thinking being a pornstar with be considered one of the best jobs ever...if you aren't forced into acts you don't like.
Click to expand

The mainstreaming of porn over the last 20 years has been tremendous, it doesn't hold the stigma it once did.
In our business, and with the movies we make, NO ONE is forced to do anything they don't want to do.
They have a very clear choice, each girl who is hired has a list of what she will and will not do, they know way before showing up on the set who they are working with and what they will be doing, if they don't like either, they can cancel.
So to even imply that they may be forced to do anything is not right.
In Europe porn stars are Stars, they have even run for public office. Case in point, Cincolina or however you spell her name.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 3 2011 : 12:45PM

NeonToastForaWhiteGhost wrote:
There will always be people who blame their mistakes and idiotic choices on others. Having said that I feel porn at it's very essence is a predatory institution that feeds on many feeble minded and broken individuals. How else would middle aged men be able to talk so many young girls into performing sexual acts that now border on freak shows,if that's not what they are already? I'm always puzzled how people who consider themselves informed individuals seem to blank out the sordid details perhaps to absolve themselves of any responsibility. Don't accuse me of being on a high horse because i'm just as guilty. I'm willing to admit it though.
I just wish modern pornography didn't have to be about turning women into rag dolls being pistoned repeatedly,brutally fucked until their insides start pushing outward. How much is enough? Where exactly are we heading? I also wonder how on Earth purveyors of porn systematically programmed legions of supposedly heterosexual men with an almost insatiable desire ........to see women with vaginas consistently fucked in the ass. Not just fucked in the ass but brutalized,gaped,'destroyed.' It's disconcerting and frankly to me reeks of some latent homosexuality urges,or at least a strong hatred of women.
We can kid ourselves and say 18-22 year old mostly uneducated and unsophisticated young people should be able to handle themselves and their decisions just fine. The truth is they're ripe pickings and most of us honestly could care less. We just want them to swallow everything with all of their holes.
Click to expand

If this is your view, why do you watch porn?
Also what DVDs are you watching?
This ripe for the picking mindset is disturbing to me.
We do not sit at the Greyhound station waiting for the bus to come in from Bumfuck Iowa and approach every or any girl that looks like she is lost and landed in Hollywood.
The opposite is mostly true, we get calls, hundreds of calls and emails on a weekly basis from people that want to get into the business.
A lot of them are actually turned away.
Again, people need to take responsibility for their actions, if you email and send pictures and call a porno company asking to make movies, you are going to end up making movies.
If you go to a strip club to dance, you are going to end up stripping and dancing.
You make us out to be predators, and that is just not the case.
Is it my fault someone is uneducated and wants to make a living? No.
Which also is somewhat insulting, your generalization of the women in this business, uneducated and unsophisticated, is also way off base. Just FYI, there are a lot of actors that are guilty of higher education, that just didn't like their job options.
Asia Karrera was one that comes to mind, she was a concert pianist, graduated college, had a very high IQ, but loved to have sex on camera.
Christy Canyon, who invested her money bought real estate and is right now very wealthy.
Jenna Jameson sold a company for $40 million dollars, and she didn't do it because she was stupid.
Actually some of the most intelligent people I have ever met are in this business and have been in this business.
You have a very dim view of the adult business, and with all due respect, one that has not been really researched by you.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Jun 4 2011 : 6:24AM

Sorry man, I should have douched that day.

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NeonToastForaWhiteGhost
Deactivated User

32 Posts
6/11

Posted - Jun 4 2011 : 7:20AM

HW,
My opinion is that your opinions are just as heavy handed and biased. Yours just go in the opposite direction as mine. Different people,different opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

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Savoy

All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06

Posted - Jun 4 2011 : 2:35PM

If it's so bad that her pussy is stinking up an entire room, she probably needed antibiotics too.
So instead of sending a sick person home, you shoot the scene, pay people extra and then have a gross story to laugh about afterwards.

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shrubage
Member

11 Posts
5/11

Posted - Jun 5 2011 : 11:57AM

There was an extremely pretty scottish girl (who only worked in the US)called 'Rose Petal' that did a couple of videos in 2002... She blatantly wasn't into it and I was always curious how she stumbled into porn. What really struck me about her was her upper class Scottish accent and the way she seemed to look down on the guys fucking her.
http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=rosepetal/gender=f/rose-petal.htm

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sh_rock
Member

we the people in order to form a more perfect union...
518 Posts
12/03

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 5:03AM

i wonder how many times that day did shorty mac tell the girl "you nasty"?
on a serious note does anyone know of a woman, after completely leaving porn, who has written or has spoken about her overwhelming positive experiences while she was in the industry? if you do let us know because i don't know of any such woman.
Edited by - sh_rock on 6/6/2011 5:04:48 AM

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Algaliarept
Senior Member

3557 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 6:43AM

Oddly, now I want to buy something that she was in just so I can hear what an "upper class Scottish accent" sounds like. They all pretty much sound like the same accent to me, but I guess to many a European out there, most Americans sound alike as well.

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hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 12:50PM

So instead of addressing what I asked you, you decided to tell me your opinion of my opinions.
Also I was stating facts, after doing this for 25 years I can back it up with years of relationships with the performers.
I really wish you would have answered some of my questions and maybe how you formed such strong opinions.
Where did you get the notion that women are forced to do anything?

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Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 1:22PM

You're kinda missing the point of what I was saying. I was saying I don't see porn as a bad gig unless the performers were being forced to do stuff they didn't want to. I didn't say the were forced to do stuff they don't want to.
But...while the word "forced" may be too strong a word, it seems that nearly every porn performer has stories of doing things they didn't particularly like or found to be pleasant. No one "forced" them to do anything but the certainly may have felt pressured in some away to do things hey might not have want to do. A girl might not be able to comfortably take a anal from a large performer but the director will coax her on or she doesn't want her pain to ruin the shoot. Perhaps a new girl has to put up with sex she thinks is too rough because if she says "no" she thinks she won't get any more work. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that could make doing porn unpleasant for some girls. Yes, no one is "forcing" them to do things but they do end up doing stuff they don't want to. Despite a list of what they'll do or won't do it's fairly common for performers to feel pressure to do things they really don't want to do.

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shrubage
Member

11 Posts
5/11

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 1:24PM

I've just had a read of her blog and to be honest it's a bit of an eye opener.... at least with regards to whether pornstars fake whatever pleasure they're showing on camera....
I've got a few of her videos and it prompted me to look at them again in an effort to see if I could spot the disgust that she said she was feeling when she performed..

To be honest though I don't see any more in her scenes after reading her blogs than the first time....
I've never really rater her as a great performer... Yeah she had a great personality and even some acting ability but her scenes were repitive and limited.... To be honest I think she's more interesting in her blog giving her insights into being a performer than on screen.

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hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 2:33PM

Draxxx wrote:
hollywood woody wrote:
The mainstreaming of porn over the last 20 years has been tremendous, it doesn't hold the stigma it once did.
In our business, and with the movies we make, NO ONE is forced to do anything they don't want to do.
They have a very clear choice, each girl who is hired has a list of what she will and will not do, they know way before showing up on the set who they are working with and what they will be doing, if they don't like either, they can cancel.
So to even imply that they may be forced to do anything is not right.
In Europe porn stars are Stars, they have even run for public office. Case in point, Cincolina or however you spell her name.
Click to expand
You're kinda missing the point of what I was saying. I was saying I don't see porn as a bad gig unless the performers were being forced to do stuff they didn't want to. I didn't say the were forced to do stuff they don't want to.
But...while the word "forced" may be too strong a word, it seems that nearly every porn performer has stories of doing things they didn't particularly like or found to be pleasant. No one "forced" them to do anything but the certainly may have felt pressured in some away to do things hey might not have want to do. A girl might not be able to comfortably take a anal from a large performer but the director will coax her on or she doesn't want her pain to ruin the shoot. Perhaps a new girl has to put up with sex she thinks is too rough because if she says "no" she thinks she won't get any more work. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that could make doing porn unpleasant for some girls. Yes, no one is "forcing" them to do things but they do end up doing stuff they don't want to. Despite a list of what they'll do or won't do it's fairly common for performers to feel pressure to do things they really don't want to do.
Click to expand

Understood, but when you use the word force, it con-notates something that someone is doing against their will.
Coaxing or prodding is different than forcing, yet they still can say no.
We all have to do things in our job that we would rather not do, that is why it is a job.
This is a business, the men and women that decide to go into this business need to do their homework, just like in any business. This is a career move. Once you decide you want in, it is very hard to unring the bell.
I really didn't miss your point, you said "unless they were being forced to do stuff they don't want to do", I got that, and I am telling you no one is forced to do anything they don't want to do.
A girl who says no to any request will still get work, there is no black balling so to speak. Some girls only do G/G, they work.
It is not really that common for performers to get pressured into anything. It seems you agree and disagree at the same time.
If anal in not on the list for Jane Doe, when she shows up to the shoot she will not be asked to do anal.
If she is asked, she says no. Then usually says, " well how much will you pay me?"
That is not being pressured, it is negotiations.

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mapofhawaii
Senior Member

1050 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 3:09PM

Unless I missed it, Penny Flame (Jennie Ketcham) never disavowed the industry or said that she hated doing her scenes. Last I heard, her position was that she was messed up from abuse in her childhood, which manifested itself in very early and misdirected sexuality well before her porn career. She had chosen to leave porn to get her life straight, but I never heard her blame the business or anything like that.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 4:21PM

And nearly every human being you talk to (if you bothered to ask them) has had the exact same experience at one time or another.

But that isn't the same thing and you know it.
1. If you go to work at a hamburger joint and find the work there unpleasant, you could make a halfway fair point by complaining that you didn't realize it was actually going to be unpleasant (Even if it should be common sense).
2. You can't really make the same argument about porn. Anyone with an internet connection (and almost everyone who's likely to wind up in porn obviously has one) can take a few hours out of one day, download some porn and see exactly what it's like. Now if you were a female (I actually don't know if you are or not) thinking about doing porn, can you honestly tell me it would never cross your mind to check it out before you do it?
3. If watching some porn wasn't enough, the girls who are lining up to be performers obviously know where to find other porn performers because they found the people who make the porn. If they haven't talked to another performer by the time they do their first scene, they will certainly have a chance to before long. Can you honestly tell me it would never cross your mind to ask other performers what kind of experiences they've had doing porn?

The chances are if this director wants her to do anal with a guy who has a big cock, this director shoots anal with big cocks for a living. Maybe she should have checked his web site for 5 minutes? Now you can argue that the director may have promised her he wouldn't ask her to do anal and that probably happens but again, if every scene he shoots is an anal scene with a big cock, why would she expect hers to be different? Wouldn't it make more sense for her to assume he's lying than for her to assume he's going to make an exception for her out of 300 girls he's shot? I really hate to seem like I'm defending a liar here but at what point do we expect people to stand up for themselves? You see it every day in real life. If you don't stand up to people it's perceived to be tacit consent.

I'm not in the biz so I can't say for sure but my gut instinct is that this is bullshit. There are people who shoot softcore (and softer hardcore) and you often see the same girls in softcore shoot as in hardcore shoots. There are people who are known for softer stuff only every bit as much as someone like Khan Tusion was known for really rough and edgy stuff.
At any rate, I often see the same girls turning up in rough scenes over and over. In fact, many of them seem to do exclusively rough scenes. Even if they by some chance got "tricked" the first time, that doesn't work for 10 scenes shot by the same guy.

This is the bottom line that you're trying to avoid. But it's the bottom line whether you like it or not. You may be able to delude yourself (and others) into believing it isn't so but you're not fooling me.

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hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 5:14PM

^
Random has hit the nail on the head with the hammer.
The bottom line is no one in life is forced to do anything they don't want to do.
You make choices, no one makes them for you. Sometimes you make the wrong choice, you learn from it and move on.
The problem comes in when you keep on making the wrong choice about the same thing and expect a different outcome.
If you can't responsibility for your own decisions than you need to grow up.
I have more respect for someone who says, "You know what, I did it, I own it, and I was wrong," that someone who says " you know what, I did it and it is everyones fault but my own."

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jfarley
Member

242 Posts
5/09

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 9:19PM

Substitute "life" with "porn", and that statement is still false. Illegal sex trafficking gangs do force women to do things they don't want to do, with threats of violence against themselves or their family, forced addiction to hard drugs, confiscated passports, etc..
There is a whole spectrum of coercion that can be applied, and it is worth questioning where the ethical boundaries lie.

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Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 6 2011 : 11:17PM

Most of what you say is true but that doesn't mean that the girls don't feel pressure to do things they might not want to do or might not like. Some go along with it and some don't. In most cases it doesn't end up being a big deal but there are times it does. This is starting to drift off track. I originally said what I said in regards to what Katja said about not liking shooting porn. I said I don't think shooting porn is such a bad gig if you aren't being forced to do things you don't want to. But I then clearified it to "doing things you don't want to or like" because I felt "forced" wasn't quite the right word.
So yes, I can understand someone not liking to do scenes if they are doing stuff they don't like in order to keep getting work, to please the director or not ruin the scene. I'm not saying those things are painful or dangerous or demeaning or anything ofthe sort. I'm just saying they're doing stuff they don't like. In some cases it's not that they didn't want to stand up for themselves it's a matter of wanting to do a good job.
I've heard many pornstars tell stories of doing stuff they didn't want to do and have seen BTS stuff of girls trying to do stuff that wasn't comfortable or pleasant to them as the director coaxed them on. Sometimes it was because they didn't know any better or because they were new and didn't know they had the power and right to say no. I've even heard older pornstars say they have talks with new girls to tell them they don't have do things they don't want to. So I'm going to tend to believe the stuff I've heard from the actual performers over what some people are saying here.
I'm not saying it's always a bad thing or that the girls don't have the right or ability to say no. All I'm saying is it isn't always cut and dry and it does happen.

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freakdude28
Member

145 Posts
3/11

Posted - Jun 7 2011 : 2:44AM

^^^ Its a job though. Haven't you ever had a job where you did things you didn't want to do?

[Link]

Algaliarept
Senior Member

3557 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jun 7 2011 : 3:21AM

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hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jun 7 2011 : 12:29PM

Ok you got me, people are forced to do things they don't want to do, then the people forcing them are breaking the law and if caught go to jail.
That's not what I meant.
Semantics. Without the threat of violence people have a choice as to what they will or will not do.
Short of someone putting a gun to your head, you make your own decisions.
In the adult industry today, I do not know of one company or director that forces anyone to do anything they do not want to do. If you know something I do not, please tell me the company or instance where a performer has been "forced" do do something they did not want to do. Be specific.

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