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| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 |  Posted - Oct 6 2008 : 7:06PM[Link] |
| Brandon Iron BrandonIron.com 3832 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Oct 6 2008 : 7:50PM [Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 6 2008 : 9:11PM I understand reading comprehension is not a necessary skill when you beat up girls for a living, but when I wrote "years", I was talking about sex in my private life, not "following you"! Flatter yourself much, bro?:)Wrong again. Plenty of people do. But every time they say something here they get shouted down by a handful of fucktards in your demo.I'm well aware you're not the only one who confuses being a bully, oh I'm sorry, a "perfect bully", with being a Dom. But I addressed you because you chose to respond to my post with the same old recycled bumper sticker generalities.You really don't have to try so hard setting up straw men. There are plenty of sociopaths in your target demo who will back you up. Don't over-exert yourself. Save your energy for smacking some 19 year old in the head.Kick her in the teeth? Come on! You're too classy for that. Just smack her in the face for about 45 minutes and call it a day. You know, the regular routine. Just make sure she cries though; otherwise the guys who defend you will have a hard time shooting a load in their parents' basements. Now for the record, this marks the third post in a row where I've smacked you around like a rag doll. Holy shit...I guess that makes me a "perfect bully"! That's waaaaaaay cool man! Make sure you write back.:) [Link] |
| Brandon Iron BrandonIron.com 3832 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 4:12AM I still have not heard a single specific scene that would cause you to think the way you do so the rest is just a bunch of noise. I'm happy if you feel you have me on some sort of string or something. I love what I do. I really, truly and honestly do. Discussing it in an open environment is something I enjoy, too. I learn a lot and don't feel it makes me less of a man to be wrong. In this case, though, it amazes me that hundreds of women can have a good working relationship with me yet you see something that may or may not be there. You don't have to refer to anyone who disagrees with you as a "fucktard." Do you really believe Joey Silvera or Jake Malone are fucktards/sociopaths? One....neither....both? After all, they make the movies, give direction, etc. Look around you as that corner you are verbally painting yourself into gets smaller and smaller. Edited by - Brandon Iron on 10/8/2008 3:22:31 AM [Link] |
| SJOriginal Member I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way 158 Posts 9/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 6:04AM And if "we" are so disgusted with what others find arousing, how does one suppose we would police such thoughts; and do we have that right? I truly believe one's man's kink is no other man's business, pending we all play by the rules; consenting, human adults that is. Porn is such a wonderful outlet for all types of sexual deviations. I wish the Femi-Nazis and anti porn crusaders could actually see the benefits, as opposed to being so alarmed and offended, and turning sex into a political platform. The Marquis De Sade so completely and inherently understood the darker side of our passions. He grasped that we all have some kind of perverted tendencies, and it was "human nature" to indulge in such fantasies. I am a sub to my husband and was to other men (and women) before him. I am a strong, opinionated, career orientated woman, but in the bedroom I like to be controlled. I have been roughed up pretty bad, or so you might think. But in fact, the further it goes, the more tears, the more pain endured, the more I fall in love, lust, and into that beautiful space called "sub space" that regular sex just can't attain ... not for me anyway. As married life goes on, I lament the diminishing cruel and unabashed sex that once filled our life. Dealing with schedules and other annoying things, like knowing someone's bowel movement habits, gets in the way of ones carnal desires ... but that's another story. I envy Rocco and Kelly for having no other attachment, no obligations, other then the true fucking honesty of the moment. We are all wired a little differently, and because one person likes it a little more complex, filthier, sophisticated and darker then the next person, it does not make it a bad thing. In fact to understand, come to terms with and act on ones natural impulses in a safe environment is healthier then oppressing it. And if watching it offends, I say avert your eyes. No matter what you think you maybe witnessing, all adult porn as we know it; is consensual. Sarah Jane [Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 7:21AM [Link] |
| IdahoArapaho Member 77 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 12:03PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 1:01PM [Link] |
| Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 1:08PM I can assure you, that a woman needn't 'clearly' look like she's enjoying herself, to enjoy herself. In fact, there's a number of women who become quite irate if they aren't pushed to the point of tears.See, I also don't care for those sorts of scenes. MeatHoles, Max Hardcore, etc also aren't to my taste. Lumping them in with the sorts of shoots Kink.com, Brandon, Jake, etc do just isn't in the same ballpark.Count me one of them. I had the good fortune of working with him for my first scene as well. His professionalism and concern for all involved is part of why Char & I have continued to pursue careers in the industry in the first place. Stephan [Link] |
| Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 1:19PM I think you don't see much harder female domination has to do with porn reflecting the market's tastes. There's not a lot of hard evidence regarding S&M tastes, but the figures here show: http://www.time.com/time/2004/sex/article/bondage_unbound_growing01a.htmlIt stands to reason that porn would reflect that trend. Stephan [Link] |
killbillvol69  All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 3:04PM Between your response and LubeNLuv's response to my same question, I understand a little bit more; but I'm still not sure that what both of you have said satisfies all of my curiosity. In your quote from the study above, it says that 79% of the women reported being submissive most or all of the time. It doesn't say, however, whether this was entirely their choice (or at least their preference) or not. In other words, are 79% of the women in the study always submissive because they prefer being submissive, or are some of them always submissive because they don't mind being submissive. I recognize that both situations are consensual, and I'm not trying to paint these women as victims in any way; but I guess I'm just wondering whether it's a case of most women enjoying being submissive more than being dominant or neither, or whether it's a case (as in many things in a relationship) that these women are doing something that they don't mind, in order to please their man. (This certainly wouldn't be the only example in our society of the wife doing something to please her man - most couples who move cities do so because of the man's career as opposed to the woman's, it's more common for the woman to stay home with the children, etc.) I know it's a small difference, but it's a difference I'm curious in knowing about. Again, I have very little knowledge (either first-hand or second-hand) of the BDSM community, and I want to learn as much about it as I can. And in particular, what's obviously of interest to me here, I want to learn why it is so much more common for women to be submissive and men to be dominant. Any opinions, experiences, studies, stories, etc. from any users are welcome. Thanks everyone. [edit: typo] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 10/7/2008 3:06:09 PM [Link] |
| CharlotteVale Member where ultra-feminine meets ultra-anal ;) 78 Posts 7/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 3:55PM Charlotte [Link] |
| SJOriginal Member I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way 158 Posts 9/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 4:37PM I think we're getting confused with subservience and submission. Subservience, especially in the domestic area, is a 24/7 cultural choice which doesn't necessary have anything to do with sex. Submission, as being discussed here, is all about sex. And anything not voluntary is simply an abuse. I think it's important to clear up the fuzzy confusion between non-consensual abuse and consensual submission; there is NO connection whatsoever. In my mind as a participator since the early age of 18, it's not like discussing apples and oranges, but rather apples and bicycles. However I can understand the confusion when watching clearly frightening acts upon young, weeping, red cheeked girls. But I recall a private session in my then fiancés dungeon. We had invited a French woman and her beau over to play. They wanted to play in front of us while we watched. I have never seen anything quite so frantic and inelegant! He simply thrashed around, beating her in a chaotic manner while she was curled up on the floor whimpering. Suffice to say, they both came and then we had dinner. She, was ON FIRE! Thrilled, high and terribly in love, devoted completely and happy as a clam after her experience. He was tired and just wanted to take a nap. I am not sure about the survey you referencing, but it is most prudent to review surveys with a pinch of salt and do ones own research. Surveys as you know can be skewed one way or another and can be bias based on the carefully asked question. I don't think anyone bothered to read my post, sadly. But I am active in the community (was more so a few years ago) and in a monogomous, married BDSM relationship. My husband and I found each other on Alt.Com. I am a willing, happy, sexually involved participant. Stephen made an excellent point, that a person (in the submissive role) does not need to look happy to be happy; in fact, it is most certainly the opposite. But if you don't understand the intricacies of the dynamic or it simply doesn't work for you, that's completely okay. I've said this before, but different strokes for different folks. I think its fantastic we all have different tastes that we can share in a public forum, there are clubs and websites that cater to our varying whims, and lots of different porn to satisfy those urges. I think anyone who might have an issue with the BDSM lifestyle should go to ALT.COM. It's free to look and is a dating website for those with alternative needs. I would read what the voluntary, consenting adult woman are ASKING, begging, desperately seeking in their partners and play. It might shed some light on your grievance with the issue. [Link] |
| killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 5:06PM @ Charlotte: I had yet to think of "submissive" as a personality trait, and was indeed only thinking of it as a particular sexual preference. Thank you for noting that. As you all can see, I really don't know a lot about this stuff. That does help to explain a great deal. What it does leave me still wondering, though, is whether it really is more common among women as a personality trait than it is among men; and if so, why. (Perhaps there are no answers to these questions; but if there are, I'd like to know them.) @ Sarah Jane: I have a question about the French couple you observed. If the woman was whimpering in the corner and the man was beating on her, how was orgasm achieved? I always thought that there had to be some kind of stimulation of the genitals for orgasm (in both men and women), but maybe I'm wrong - is it possible to achieve orgasm with no genital stimulation whatsoever? [Link] |
| Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 7:49PM I'm not sure how far off topic I should wander with a reply. There are thousands of books, websites, and forums dedicated to the topic as is, so I'm not sure how quickly and easily it can be summed up.The trouble is that studies on the topic are very difficult to quantify. How do we define a 'kinky' person? What level of interest do you have to have in BDSM to be considered a BDSMer? Almost everyone has tried tying or being tied at one time, or spanking, or hair pulling. Having said that, probably the best place to find information, like Sarah Jane suggested; go to the source and find out. Charlotte & I actually met on collarme.com back in the day, posting on the forums there (alt.com really isn't to our taste.)Actually, I agree; it's a pretty big difference. In fact, this is a strong distinction between the BDSM community and the swinger's community; when a man is seen as 'pushing' his wife to try swinging, he finds himself quickly shown the door. I'll try to clarify a little. As Charlotte mentioned, dominance and submission are often seen as personality traits. I'm a dominant person by nature, I like to set the rules at home, I like being in a position of responsibility. Charlotte, by contrast, is a submissive person; she likes the rules being set, and she relaxes more when she doesn't have to shoulder a lot of the responsibilities. Sexually, that often comes out (for us) with me enjoying tying her up, holding her down, pulling her hair. She likes to be tied, loves when she's held down, etc etc. Because we enjoy accentuating these traits, we are in a 'Dominant/submissive' relationship (or D/s.) It isn't a situation where charlotte is 'willing' to obey me because she feels pushed to; on the contrary, she positively desires it, and it was our mutual interest in a D/s relationship that brought us together in the first place.I think there's probably several reasons. For hundreds of thousands of years, our genus has primarily depended on males to do the hunting and killing, and women to raise and protect children. That's thousands of generations of natural selection at work, weeding out men who were weaker and/or less intelligent (power isn't just in the muscles), and women who were less fertile, less powerful. To ignore the impact evolution has had on our socities would be burying our head in the sand. I'm not advocating that women are inherently weaker or less capable than men, mind you. Today, technology has made it possible for the smallest girl to kill the largest, strongest man with one shot, or even the press of a button. I'm simply pointing out that there's an enormous amout of evolutionary sociology at work here, and those desires aren't going to just evaporate in one generation. I think, too, that with advocacy of equal rights for women (which, again, I fully support) there's a measure of backlash by men and women being told they're 'supposed' to want equal jobs, equal rights, and equal responsibilities, in spite of what they want. Women who want to be stay at home mothers are regularly scoffed at, and asked "what's wrong, are you lazy? Don't you want a real career?" Those who drive the 'equality at any cost' bandwagon often see women who prefer more traditional roles for men and women as enemies, and I think this is partially responsible for the growth of interest in BDSM. I'm sure this is coming off in a horribly cheuvanistic tone; it's honestly not intended to. I'm an advocate of people feeling free to pursue happiness in whatever manner they may, with the same opportunity to succeed as everyone else, regardless of gender (or race, or religion, etc etc.) I just think it's often forgotten, that while everyone deserves the same size piece of pie, not everyone wants such a large slice, or even a slice of the same pie. Stephan [Link] |
| CharlotteVale Member where ultra-feminine meets ultra-anal ;) 78 Posts 7/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 9:03PM Charlotte [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 9:35PM [Link] |
| tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 10:02PM However, recently when a guy tied me up he told me that himself enjoyed getting tied up and enjoyed being a submissive now and then. He told me that as my hands were tied behind my back and I was laying face down on the floor. lol I had never before entertained the thought of tying a guy up and getting turned on by it. But seeing him look excited at the prospect was in fact a turn-on to me. I always figured that I had a masochistic side to me with absolutely no sexually dominant side. I still believe that I wouldn't want to hurt someone else physically, but I have no problems with people who get turned on by consensual physical pain. [Link] |
| killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Oct 7 2008 : 11:11PM Naturally, though, each answer you provide me with only generates more questions in my head. Such a vicious cycle. ;) If it is indeed, as it appears to be, so much more common for women to have a submissive side, and men to have a dominant side, and if much of this is related to evolution, etc. What do we make of those relationships where this isn't the case? What of the heterosexual couple where the female is dominant? Or the homosexual couple of any sort? How do they fit into the evolutionary landscape? I can see one saying that perhaps the submissive male/dominant female comes about as another sort of rejection of our modern society; now that males no longer have to be the ones in charge, and females the ones who must obey, some have a desire to flip the script completely and assume the opposite role of what was evolutionarily chosen for them. But is it actually new to have males who are submissive? As in, one, two, five, ten, thirty, one hundred generations ago, how common was it for a couple to find themselves in a dynamic where there was a dominant female and submissive male? As common as today? More common? Less common? (I realize it's not possible to know what fraction of males were submissive one hundred generations ago. But it's still interesting to think about.) Further, of course, I wonder what all this says about me. (It's impossible not to think about how things relate to your own experience at some point, and that point is now.) I have no desire whatsoever to cause physical pain to a woman with whom I'm being intimate. Why is this the case? Well, I'm not sure it's possible to know. We could talk about what I learned growing up, my values, education, etc. but that would only speak to what I think I ought to do, and not what my desires are. My desires, and lack of desires, are simply there. But what do they mean about me? In one sense, if it's really true that most women actually do enjoy being dominated/punished/beaten/whatever, it means that I'm not much of a mate for most women. That's proven to be true enough so far, as in my life I have only failed relationships to show for my experience (though I don't believe any of them failed because of a lack of dominating tendencies on my part, it's probably impossible to know for sure). But in another sense, it likely means that if I am to make a woman who wants to be dominated happy, I would have to dominate her. Which wouldn't make me happy. So I would actually be subservient to her needs, while being the dominant one in the sexual relationship. This, I think, relates to what Sarah Jane was talking about, that subservience is different from submission. Because in this hypothetical case I, in being dominant, would actually be the subservient one to my submissive mate. That in itself is an interesting dynamic to think about. It also makes me think that if it is true that there are far more women who wish to be dominated than not (to differing degrees of course), that my chances of finding a partnership with a woman in which we're both happy have just been drastically reduced.  Of course all of this is interesting to learn about, and I still have an infinitude of questions. Please, everyone, feel free to share whatever you know on these topics. Thanks again to those that have shared so far. Are there others who, like me, want to learn more? Please, bring your questions. There are obviously many here who, even if they can't answer them, can likely at least provide you with some perspective or context to help you pursue your answers. [Link] |
| SJOriginal Member I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way 158 Posts 9/08 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 2:55AM Stephan - first of all let me "bow down" (ha ha) to your wonderful articulate post! And let me say Charlotte is beautiful and I am happy you have found each other. Do you ever play with other couples? Just wondering :):):) I also tried collarme.com and was somewhat successful. I would say it was definitely more focused to the SM crowd as opposed to the anything crowd. I just found it less user friendly, and more difficult to navigate around. Alt.com was so, so easy - and I met my husband there, so I have no complaints. Killbill - You have lots of intricate questions that have been philosophised over for years in countless books. I would suggest YOU TRY IT! You should start simple and slow. Perhaps next time you are making love, try spanking her bottom with focus, pulling on her hair a little, and giving her a few simple directions you are comfortable with. For example you could ask her to wear a corset or your favourite brand of underwear. Reward her with a kiss for doing so, spank her bottom once for disobeying. Make it fun and enjoyable. TELL her you want to see her standing unclothed, not moving, and circle her while admiring her naked form. Perhaps comment on her lovely bottom, or the shape of her back. Run your hand down her spine, and whisper "I want to make you mine". It doesn't have to be violent or aggressive (yet!!!). It's about a little power exchange. Gauge her breathe, her reaction; is she digging it? If no, pull back, if yes, push a little further, but don't do anything either of you think you should do, or are uncomfortable with. I do think actually doing it speaks more volumes then any book, movie, porno, expert, or documentary could ever articulate. It might answer many of your questions. And in regards to your question Killbill about the French couple; I really skipped over most of the evenings events, I sort of gave you the nuts and bolts of the evening. There was plenty of dick sucking, fucking, masturbating, toys and kissing that was before, during and after the chaotic thrashing. However, there were tears and begging throughout. Difficult to stomach; I know. But it made her ravenously hot for him; she simply could not get enough. And if she needed help she would have reached out or ... stood up. I have a 6.30 am meeting so I'm off to bed. Sweet dreams everyone. Sarah Jane x [Link] |
| ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 3:59AM is that list pending, perchance? [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 5:00AM I don't buy the evolutionary determinist argument either, because there are sub/dom relationships between gay males and lesbians as well. If the study mentioned earlier found that 79% of women in the S/M community were subs, that doesn't mean that 79% of all women are 'naturally' subs. I think it is too difficult to disentangle the chicken from the egg, or nature from social conditioning. And even according to those number shouldn't 21% of rough sex porn be male submissive? (Not low-budget niche videos either, but Elegant Angel or Evil Angel level) Not even close, the most mainstream male sub behavior is face sitting. Male submissiveness is the only real taboo left in 'straight' porn. Notice how many fans freak when a guy is rimmed? Many studies of the general population have found that a lot of men enjoy passive or submissive roles: Nancy Friday's study of 3000 males' sexual fantasies found that by a ratio of 4 to 1 the men's fantasies were masochistic/passive (submissive fantasies were common among women as well). Eileen McCloud's study of prostitutes and their clients found that that 48 percent of the men could classified as desiring to be 'sexually passive.' Being dominated and cross dressing were the most common desire of men after straight sex, oral sex or masturbation. There is a big difference between those who practice BDSM in their private lives and many of those who watch rough porn. That's why they can't see the difference (in quality or degree) between Rocco and Max. I think that the fact that the industry is dominated by (often cynical or misogynistic) men and has a core raincoater audience who are often spectacularly unsuccessful with women in real life is reflected in the insistence on male dom/female sub scenes. You only have to cruise the forums here and at XPT to find that many 'fans' of rough sex are not concerned with S/M dynamics and express overtly misogynistic viewpoints. Edited by - BlackSix on 10/8/2008 5:42:29 AM [Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 5:18AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 5:37AM 'Classic' era: Forced Entry (directed by Shaun Costello, not the Lizzy Borden snoozer) Waterpower Femmes De Sade Sex Wish Her Name is Lisa Corruption Farmer's Daughter Unwilling Lovers Defiance of Good The Taming of Rebecca The Taking of Christina The Story of Joanna Appointment with Agony Through the Looking Glass Winter Heat Expensive Tastes Smoker Modern era: Kink (Joey Silvera's masterpiece I'd say) Rocco's Way to Love Corruption (Eli Cross) Sexual Disorder (Mason) Fuck Slaves 1, 2 and Crimes of the Cunt (Malone) I picked stuff I actually liked, so no Slap Happy (sorry Brandon!), Khan Tusion, Max Hardcore or Rob Black. Edited by - BlackSix on 10/8/2008 5:39:09 AM [Link] |
| Brandon Iron BrandonIron.com 3832 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 6:33AM [Link] |
| ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 7:08AM also, i could not agree more with your post before that one. bravo. [Link] |
| backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 10:08AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 10:18AM Before you argue with this, just think about it. Think about the average male/female couple. When is the male ever really in absolute control in the bedroom?You might be surprised how hard it is to find an aggressively dominant gay man. As a submissive masochist who spent years looking for one, I can tell you they are not common in the gay community. There are probably more gay masochists and subs, which is why the gay doms who do exist can afford to be as choosy as they want to be.I don't think that really matters in a porn context.Perhaps. But who wants to see it? Most porn fans, it seems, complain if they even see the man. But beyond that. There are dominant men and submissive men and that's just the way it is.That might have something to do with the fact that male rimming often turns up (out of nowhere) in what is supposed to be plain vanilla sex. A lot of people just aren't into it or ready to see it. Guys who are into that kind of stuff seek it out. Guys who aren't wonder what the hell is going on when it turns up in "their" porn.Prove it. It may indeed be true in some cases but I doubt it's true for the entire group. I will say that I think some of the people who try to make porn with themes of pain, humiliation, rough sex and so forth don't really seem to get it. I believe this is just a result of them trying to capitalize on a trend and not really knowing what they're doing. And also, the fact that probably many of the women they hire for these productions are not really into that mindset. They'll do it but they don't get it and frankly, it shows.There are a few key differences between Rocco and Max. First of all, it is argued that Max is a misogynist. What Max actually has to say about it is kind of interesting (I think). I read an article in AVN a while back in which he said he doesn't hate women. He stated that he hates stuck up bitches. Don't we all? Is that really misogyny? Only if you think all women are stuck up bitches. Of course, whether or not you believe that depends on whether or not you believe Max. I think it was probably a fairly honest statement. How or why Max seems to enjoy sexualizing his distaste for a certain kind of woman is well beyond me but I don't really judge him for it other than just to say it's just not my thing. Frankly, there are certain women who piss me off too but they're the last women on earth I'd want to see in a porn flick. I don't think Rocco hates any women. I think Rocco loves women. But Rocco also loves hard, raw, nasty, rough sex that pushes boundaries and sometimes that might override his concern for his costars. It doesn't show he hates them. It might show a lack of respect at times but I think there's a difference. Also, there's a difference between looks and personality. If Max looked like Rocco, he would probably still be heavily criticized but he might be seen to be somewhat more acceptable. But since Max is an ugly old man (by most people's standards) and Rocco is still very attractive even if he's a little older, people look at it a bit differently. An ugly old man with a smaller dick roughing a chick up in a porn flick tends to be seen as a rapist. An attractive guy with a suave accent and a big cock tends to be seen as a stud. The natural chemistry between Rocco and his female costars is often much better than that between a guy like Max and his costars. The women in Rocco's flicks are more likely to enjoy themselves because they're more likely to be physically attracted to Rocco in the first place. Max is the kind of guy who might have a hard time finding women outside of porn. So I think people (male and female) are prejudiced against a guy like Max to start out with. There are major differences but there are more people than just fans of rough sex who either don't see differences or see them for all the wrong reasons.I think porn came about because of men who aren't necessarily spectacularly successful with women. Men who get all the pussy they want don't really need porn for anything other than maybe a curiosity or diversion. A lot of us depend on porn because we aren't married, don't have girlfriends and/or don't fuck a different chick every weekend. And again, men often don't control the action in the real world. We have to ask for permission for everything and grovel and beg and even then, we have to be careful what we do or say. Porn is fantasy and it's where things can kind of all hang out. I think it serves as a kind of pressure relief valve for a lot of people. Modern society can be so stifling. There's no joy in anything anymore. We have to always be on our best behavior. Let me ask you something. When is it ever "OK" in real life for a man to completely dominate a woman? Only if she agrees. Right? Now women who enjoy being totally dominated are out there. But they are rare and they have high standards. Most men could probably get off on completely dominating a woman from time to time but there are only so many who really enjoy it. Again. Porn provides a kind of safe environment for all that pressure to be released. The women in porn generally agree to do pretty much anything for the right price. It seems to be a pretty safe environment for them where things don't tend to get too out of control. And finally, all the guy who wants to see this has to do is spend a few dollars. I'm convinced some people judge MOST of these guys far more harshly than they really deserve.Who wrote the book on sexuality and laid out the rules for what is required in any given situation? Real life doesn't follow parameters. People get off on all kinds of shit. And it usually doesn't mean jack shit. It just means they're horny for whatever they're into at the moment and they need to release.You can color me a misogynist if you want to but I wouldn't describe myself as such. And I think if you went through my entire posting history, you'd have a really tough time coming up with enough evidence to prove it that wasn't overwhelmed by a wealth of evidence to the contrary. That's of course if you weren't looking to take things out of context. You are judging people based upon snapshots of bits and pieces of their thoughts. And what's more, you're judging people based upon what they jack off to. Which is about the worst way in the world to really know someone. Imagine a digital image with 98% of the pixels missing. Would you want to be judged this way? If I jack off to a pair of rubber boots, what does that reveal about my personality? Not a damn thing. It just means rubber boots turn me on for whatever crazy reason that may be. I think pretty much all sexual arousal basically works this way and people read way more into it than is usually there. I don't masturbate to rubber boots, BTW  But I have gotten off many, many times to rough sex and even what could be termed as women being abused. I've gotten off to stuff from sites like Paingate (I don't know what they call it now but you might have seen some of it if you plumb the depths of the web). What does that say about me? Not much. Because I can assure you that what I get off on in fantasy doesn't affect how I treat people in real life. But if you must know, when I see people in submissive roles and in pain in those roles, I (as a masochist) mentally insert myself into their place the same way you might mentally insert yourself into the place of a man getting a blowjob. I can actually go there too but I'm not nearly as turned on by the thought of myself dominating as I am by the thought of myself in the submissive role. I don't hate women as a general group. I'm simply not that thoughtless. It takes a really stupid person to hate an entire group or gender. I hate specific people (Of either gender) who give me damn good reasons to hate them. And I don't masturbate to people I hate. I actually try to put them out of my mind and forget they exist because I know how corrosive hatred is if you dwell upon it. You don't have to believe anything I've said. I don't care. But it's the truth. Basically, my point is that people make too many assumptions and way too many harsh judgments based upon those assumptions when there are just too many other possible explanations for things. I think it shows a lack of thought for this assumption to just pop into someone's head when a guy shows up and says he likes this or that. You don't make those assumptions about women. Why do you do it to men? [Link] |
| Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 12:41PM I've met plenty of macho guys who'll only respect other men if they don't take any shit, but if a woman is a strong character, doesn't let men walk all over her, then she's a bitch who needs putting in her place. If someone admires a certain behaviour in men, while hating women who act the same way, then that's pretty fucking misogynistic. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 1:11PM What I'm saying is I think for all the talk about the diversity in porn in would be great if there was a bit more balance in the portrait of sub/dom in straight porn. To me, that makes it more enjoyable and fun. [Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 1:39PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 2:25PM Now there is a tendency for people to sugar coat the S&M thing. I wouldn't do that. From the standpoint of a masochist, do you realize there are masochists who want to be taken there? It's probably a bad idea to film it and sell it because as this thread proves, some people can be really ignorant and a person who sees it and isn't into it and doesn't get it is just never going to understand. There are masochists and then there are masochists who want to be taken to extremes. Naturally, there are people willing to take them there. Don't judge them if you don't know them. That's all I'm saying.I'm all for diversity. Hoeever, I don't think that's what some folks have in mind. Edited by - randomprecision on 10/8/2008 2:27:17 PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 2:36PM So If I say I hate pricks, jerks, asshole or whatever you call a man with an attitude problem, is that misandry? Of course not. Like I said. I don't know what Max's deal is. But I thought that statement by him made sense. We all know people with attitude problems. I think that's all he meant. Again, how he goes from there to sexualizing it, I don't know. [Link] |
| Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 5:10PM I can honestly say I wasn't expecting this topic to have as much interest as it did. Something charlotte & I have always been (somewhat painfully - rimshot) aware of were the distinctions between expectations in kink and fetish shoots, and mainstream pornography. I'll have her tell the story more in-depth, but it was while watching The Training of O (in fact, of Madison Young) that we first considered her working in videos. At the time, she said she'd be excited to do fetish and kink oriented shoots, but she couldn't imagine enjoying 'vanilla' videos. Oh, how times change! This is a long reply; my apologies. KillBill, First, I'd like to attach a couple disclaimers. I'm hoping not to present my views as hard fact; they're my opinions, based on things I've observed, read, and mulled over. Also, I think sexuality is incredibly complex; when I say "I think there are more submissive women than men because of social evolution" I'm not suggesting that all women are submissive because of evolution, etc. I believe that it's one of several factors that shapes a person; their upbringing, religious views, traumatic experiences, exposure to different ideas and concepts, genetics, education, etc all have an impact on an individual becoming who they are. Rather, when you take a large group of people and observe them, certain trends start cropping up. Most people are heterosexual. Most people are social. Most people like chocolate. This doesn't mean people should be heterosexual, social, and like chocolate, or that someone who doesn't like chocolate has no place. I have a good friend who is a submissive male. He's an alpha male in most respects of his life, and a body builder; I think he views his devotion to a woman to be on par with that of a knight defending a queen, where he can protect, defend, and serve her completely. He and I have a great deal in common, but at the end of the day, in our respective bedrooms, we have very different tastes. He's anal retentive, likes rules and expectations to be very clear, is a fanatic at cleaning house, likes to cook, and in general take care of domestic duties. I imagine much of his personality came from his parents, and he's most at ease when he is serving his partner. I think that this type of male submission has probably always existed; there were male slaves in Roman days who's lives depended on the successful service to their owners, for example. Social and legal roles have always been imposed on humans, stretching back to our ancestors, and I think power dynamics have always been expressed in one form or another. I'm just illustrating that, due to their physical nature (notably, the impact of testosterone) men have generally been expected to be in roles of authority through history. As for your questions about S&M, if you were to tell me ten years ago that I'd enjoy whipping a girl till her back bled, I'd have probably decked you. I was raised in a household where there were very firm rules that Boys Don't Hit Girls. Ever. I never questioned the rule, I just followed it, no matter how abusive my sisters might have been. I think the first time I ever broke that rule was when I was 23 and dating a 19 year old. During sex, she asked me... well, more demanded that I choke her. I was pretty shocked, but she said it was the only way she could orgasm. After about two minutes, true to her word, she was able to get off, something she hadn't been able to do before with me. I'll spare you the why, it's not a fun story, but in short I came to understand that she didn't just 'like' being hurt, she needed it to enjoy herself. I had no desire to cause her pain, either, but I learned that 'pain' isn't a simple word. I know some hard core masochists today, and none of them relish going to the dentist, paper cuts, or getting their foot stomped on. It's not just the physical activity that they enjoy, it's often the 'why' of the activity. Some people certainly do enjoy the sensation of a flogger or a whip, but others enjoy that someone is inflictingthat pain on them. When I'm flogging or spanking charlotte, believe it or not, it's a means of expressing the intensity of desire that I have for her. So, like you, I grew up being taught that women didn't want to be hurt. As an adult, I've learned that many (and certainly not all) women doenjoy S&M activities, at least to some degree. Thus, spanking, flogging, and bondage are just additional tools in my toolbox, next to writing poetry, remembering to bring flowers, taking her to a nice dinner, etc. Every woman is different with different desires and tastes. I love romantic dinners, but I also love cooking in. Thus, a woman who loves to eat out, I take out, and a woman who loves home cooking, I cook for. Sadist or not, I still enjoy seeing my date happy. On the flip side, a woman who enjoys being the sadist isn't going to get me excited; I don't like being spanked, flogged, or tied up, even if it's something she really likes. It'd be like if she asked me if I wanted to go watch a high school production of Jesus Christ Superstar (I HATE showtunes.) Thus, compatibility becomes an issue here, too. But there are many men in the BDSM lifestyle who say exactly what you do; that they enjoy being 'dominant' because it satisfies their submissive partner's needs. Many male dominants have become that way, because they see an abundence of beautiful female submissives, and a scarcity of female dominants (and, to boot, many female dominants end up in relationships with other male dominants as well.) Sounds confusing? It can be :p That's why I tried to mention that I'm addressing tendencies, not absolutes. Take heart though! The truth is, most women are attracted to men because of their personalities. Who a man is as a person is far more important than how skilled he is with a singletail whip, or how much pain he's willing to endure. I always remember a line from High Fidelity; "it's not about what you are like, it's about what you like. Books, film, TV, music, these are the things that really matter." Being friendly, having a sense of humor, and sharing compatible interests are keys to any healthy relationship. Charlotte and I first met because we shared an interest in BDSM, but if we didn't share a basic interest in the beach, music, food, books, dancing, and all of the other things we love to do together, we'd never have worked out as a couple. In short, I think it's through enjoying our lives and pursuing our interests that we are more likely to find partnerships and relationships. Wow, that was long. If you've made it this far folks, thanks for the patience! Sarah Jane, Aww thank you :) Yes, actually we do play with others from time to time ;) I do know what you mean about alt.com; it's a lot more open sexually than collarme.com, but for the three months we had a paid membership, we only met one couple, and that was because he's a photographer and wanted to shoot us. That gig alone was worth it, but in general I find that alt.com has become so commercialized, that it's nearly impossible to find people who are interested in more than random sex hookups. Just my experience. collarme.com, by contrast, has a large number of sweet young female submissives who are curious about learning more about the lifestyle.... (lemme pause to wipe the drool.) I totally agree with you though; as deeply as I can wax philosophic about BDSM, the best way to learn about it is to dip your toes in and see what it's like. BlackSix, I kept your thoughts in mind while writing Bill; as I said, I don't think of homosexuality or female dominant relationships as 'against' nature. I read somewhere, and believe, that 10% of primates are genetically disposed to homosexuality. I do agree with you; when we're talking about a survey of people who practice BDSM, we're already dealing with a survey of people who are openly deviant. In my experience, I find that everyone has the capacity to dominate and submit; I submit every time I stand in line at the grocery store, or give exact change for the bus, or pay my taxes. I think the reason we don't see a lot of men involved in masochistic activities in the bigger studios has to do with a few factors. One, being that female performers who are sadistic in the first place are a little tough to come by. It would require a director actively encouraging that performer to be sadistic in the scene, and the male talent to accept/endure it, and the scene incorporated into a movie in the end. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen; in fact, I think the industry has made leaps and bounds in that direction; the popularity of meninpain.com certainly comes to mind. I haven't read Nancy Friday's work, though I did come across a reviewer who summed the problems with such surveys well: "The history of sex surveys is long and tortuous, but the one thing that they all have in common is that they display their authors' own prejudices and ideologies as much as anything else. Whether it's Krafft Ebing using Psychopathia Sexualis to pathologise `deviance', or Nancy Friday refusing to find female fetishists, each survey has something to tell us about its author's own agenda,.....We've all got a point to prove, only some people like to dress it in the language of science and number, turning the rest of us into lab exhibits to be gawped at vicariously." http://www.blackstarreview.com/rev-0008.html It's fair to say I also have an opinion and position I'm trying to advocate, thus I'd be more likely to use evidence that support my position. As for the survey of prostitutes, I think an importanct context is that men don't usually visit prostitutes to have fantasies acted out that are easily accessible at home, or within the contexts of 'normal' relationships. Part of the statistics I cited illustrated that there are often twice as many male submissives as there are female dominants in the lifestyle. Additionally, many of the men who visit professionals for their S&M interests have strong fantasies that they only really wish to act out occasionally, men who are happily married, good fathers, successful at work, but once in a while want to be tied up, forced to wear dresses, lipstick and heels, and then beaten black and blue. It wouldn't make sense for him to abandon his family and life to pursue a relationship with a female dominant, just to have an occasional itch scratched. In my experience, female submissives (on the other hand) are often more interested in a full relationship with a dominant man. I fully agree with you, though, that there is often a stark contrast between people who enjoy S&M on a personal level, and misogynists, and as SJ mentioned, we'd be comparing apples and bicycles. ToneBone, I think you've chosen to take Brandon's statement out of context. Replace the word Bully with Sadist, and the word Victim with Masochist, and it makes perfect sense to me. Beyond that, your beef with him, is between y'all. RandomPrecision, That's a really good point to bring up; I think that many male-dominant fantasies are rebellions against the control asserted by puritanical beliefs; the Church tells us that women must protect their virtue, making them into gatekeepers. Thus, women who are promiscuous are branded whores and sluts, and men who aren't willing to 'submit' to the notion that women are obligated to protect their sexuality are branded as predators, misogynists, and rapists. Men are instilled with a sense of guilt for their natural sexual desires; I think it's safe to say the entire porn industry's well-being is dependent upon this guilt for it's survival. And I'll echo what you said; dominant gay men, proportionately, seem to be about as rare as dominant women. Also, ditto on producers who are trying to capitalize on the current trend of BDSM becoming more and more accepted. I'll disagree with your comments related to where porn came from. Humanity has always used art as a means of expressing their feelings. Every single human emotion, taste, desire, and fear is portrayed in one manner or another in books, film, and music. Sexuality is one of the most powerful human motivators; present a hungry man with a beautiful naked woman to his left and a steak to his right, and see which he goes for first. It's safe to say I'm successful with women; pornography (for me) is a means for me to enjoy sexuality alone though, without having the concerns associate with sex, in terms of making sure my partner is happy, comfortable, and enjoying herself. Sex is a lot of work for me, and sometimes I like to just relax and enjoy it. K, this is plenty long enough. Stephan [Link] |
| killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 6:03PM I'm just going to shoot out a couple of questions/thoughts I had while reading all the posts; I'll probably have more later. 1. Sarah Jane, I appreciate your idea that perhaps trying it can tell you much more than all the reading and thinking about it ever could. This can in fact apply to many "it"s, not just BDSM. However, I'm not sure that I'm inclined to try it, since I have absolutely no desire to do so, no matter how awesome many say it can be; there are so many other things in the universe that many say is awesome that I actually do want to try that I can't imagine ever having a chance to do them all, so that I can get around to the things I don't want to try. 2. This is a question that, once again, will likely prove how ignorant I am of all of this. How far is "too far" (or is there such a thing)? In other words, if it's a positive and necessary (or at least 'strongly desired') part of the sexual experience for a d/s couple to have the dom whip the sub until she bleeds, is it ok if she bleeds one ounce of blood? How about two ounces? Six? A quart? Two quarts? In other words, I have no doubt that there are some subs who would be quite content to let you beat them until they were dead. They wouldn't think of it like that of course, but in the ecstasy of the beating, they'd probably be happy to just let it keep going forever. Is that ok? And if not, just how far is ok? And how does one determine that? If I had a sub girlfriend who liked having her hair pulled, is it ok to pull it out? If so, how much? If she's willing to let me, should I pull it all out of her head at once? In other words, is there a point, as a dom, that you have to say "I will stop satisfying my partner right now, for their own good". And if this point exists, and the dom does stop, does the sub consider it a letdown? Maybe decide to pursue another dom who's willing to go further in the future? [Link] |
| Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 6:32PM These are actually some pretty common questions.This is addressed in what we call 'negotiation.' Before I 'play' with a submissive, there's a point where we (should) discuss what is ok, and what isn't. It might or might not be detailed, but some form of communication is always necessary. There's usually some givens; it's usually given that light spanking, hair pulling, light bondage, and light flogging are 'ok' unless otherwise stated. Usually, limits are discussed; specifically, I'd ask a submissive if she has any limits I should be aware of. That's her chance to say "don't slap my face, don't pull my hair." If I have a certain activity in mind, say needleplay, that's the time I say "how do you feel about needles?" Because needleplay is a pretty intense type of activity, it'd be both rude and dangerous to simply leap into it without her tacit consent to that activity. Whipping is one of those intense, somewhat dangerous activities. I don't recommend 'newbies' just leap into it, on either end of the whip, so when you get to the point where you engage in whipping, the 'amount' of blood isn't an issue (in truth, while I've drawn blood with a whip, there's never been any significant blood loss; it's on par with the amount of blood you'd lose if you're nicked while shaving.) Light flogging is a far less advanced activity, and shouldn't usually result in blood loss. Each person has their limits in terms of how far they're willing to go. Many submissives, while receiving a whipping or flogging or spanking will enter an almost trancelike state often called 'subspace.' While in subspace, they're often unable to speak, react coherently, and for all practical purposes they've checked out. This is an example of the enormous amount of trust required in a scene; the dominant needs to know his own limits, and make a good guess as to the submissives limits. I've had a girl brag that she was an extreme painslut; one swat of the belt later, she was on the floor thrashing like a fish, and shrieking like she'd been electrocuted. Suffice to say, the reality of S&M didn't even come close to her fantasies. Just because she had told me I could beat her any way I liked, didn't mean it was true, and ultimately this is why self-control is so important for dominants.Pulling her hair isn't remotely the same as pulling it out. I've had a few strands come loose, but I've never pulled a patch of hair out. It'd be like asking if a girl likes to be spanked, is it ok if I spank her while holding a fork; two very different activities. If she's willing to let you pull her hair completely out of her head, and you want to pull it out, that's a whole other ball of wax; I've seen even more extreme forms of play, but I would caution you that is well in the minority, and incredibly rare. So yes, at all times the dominant is expected to use his best judgment in terms of his partners limits. I would much prefer to go 'not far enough' than too far and damage my partner in an unacceptable manner. And yes, it does often happen that a submissive will feel that her current partner isn't extreme enough for her, and she moves on to find someone more suitable. That works both ways though; a dominant who has a submissive that isn't extreme enough for him might move on to another as well. It doesn't make sense to stay in a relationship where you don't feel you're getting your needs met, yanno? Hope that clears some things up! Stephan Edited by - stephan on 10/8/2008 6:33:42 PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 9:29PM Try using the reviews that are usually around for porn flicks before you watch them. Try using some common sense. A movie called "Fuck Slaves" that comes out of porn valley probably ain't gonna be red wine and daffodils. But if your psyche is just so fragile that you can't take watching it if you should "accidentally" stumble upon it, maybe you should find another hobby. Who knows? You might see something that makes you feel even more guilty than it does when you get turned on watching a girl get slapped and then you'd really be scarred for life and we'd never hear the end of it. So there you go. No philosophical bullshit. Find something you like and stop making a damn fool out of yourself and pestering people who never bothered you. I like rough sex. Sometimes it turns me on when there's something that's just raw and edgy going on. I don't know why and I don't care. Especially when you seem to want to know but you don't believe it when people give you the answers. You care more about what I jerk off to than I do. I jerk off to whatever appeals to me today. If it's legal, it's fair game. Don't like it? Fuck you. Yeah. I know. That's not very original. But at least it isn't covert or pseudo-philosophical. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 9:55PM Brandon and Annette are like two jazz musicians riffing on a theme together, there's a real feeling of intense communication in that scene, IMO. Exactly the kind of thing missing from most other porn scenes, rough or not. The scenes between Jamie Gillis and Serena back in the 70s (eg. Ecstasy Girls) had the same vibe, but they were lovers at the time, just like Rocco and Kelly in the scene in the OP.
[Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2008 : 10:16PM Seriously. Do you ever go out? Or sleep? or go to the bathroom? Sorry for being harsh. Just stating the obvious. [Link] |
| Dr_Fell Member 545 Posts 6/08 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 12:06AM You seem incapable of discussing this topic without resorting to insults. In my view, this practice fatally undermines your credibility. [Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 1:31AM [Link] |
| Brandon Iron BrandonIron.com 3832 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 1:32AM [Link] |
| Dr_Fell Member 545 Posts 6/08 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 1:40AM To clarify, I mean the general tone of all of your posts on this topic. Your rhetorical strategy does not inspire confidence in your character, your understanding of the topic, your respect for other members of this forum, or the authenticity of your experiences.Now, to go in a different direction, I found Gia Jordan's scene in Service Animals #20 profoundly disturbing because of the apparent (simulated) use of heroin. [Link] |
| ToneBone Member 176 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 4:02AM [Link] |
| backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 8:26AM or was that from [foot in mouth] just poking fun at ya ! I agree that RP seems to crave the debate. However I find him very sharp witted and intelligent. I don't always make it through his long posts but what I do read is informative if not always agreeable.[Link] |
| threesomebody Official BlowBang Judge Would you like my autograph? 2491 Posts 12/04 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 8:31AM [Link] |
| backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 9:01AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 2:37PM Fir instance, my masochism and submissiveness aren't things I never knew about myself until someone encouraged me to try it. I always knew it and I had to seek out someone who was willing to go there with me. On average, I think most people who are into kinks have to seek out people with whom they can explore them. And in many cases, they may not find them. Particularly if they're male. This, I feel, is why you end up seeing so many unusual (and sometimes "disturbing") requests in places where porn is discussed. So many people simply have no real world outlets for these desires. They're not dangerous people (Hopefully most of them aren't, anyway). They're looking for safe ways to explore their sexuality.Well, no reason why you should have to try it if you don't want to. I apologize because at the moment I can't recall what your position is on the issue. But I think someone might have just been trying to say "Don't knock it until you try it".That question is impossible to answer. Obviously, if there was a situation in which a dom put a sub in a wheelchair or killed them (intentionally or otherwise), the law would likely intervene and pretty much everyone would agree that it was too far. Most people in the BDSM community seem to agree that permanant injury is at the very extreme edge of what should be ventured into. For instance, scars that never fade. That would be something that would have to be seriously discussed between the dom and the sub beforehand. As was noted before, this is territory most conscientious doms probably wouldn't even consider going into unless the sub specifically asked for it. And even then, they still might not for personal reasons. Doms and subs do have limits and they're different for different people just as they are for people in any other lifestyle.Well, the thing about an injury that causes bleeding (on the surface of the skin, at least) is that it usually looks far more serious than it actually is. As Stephan pointed out, it would be almost impossible to bleed to death from the kind of injuries you might expect from being whipped. There are other dangers to whipping but bleeding isn't really one of them. They would be more along the lines of swelling, infections and so forth. Some people are more prone to serious complications from minor injuries than others so again, it would come down to a dom and a sub really knowing and trusting one another and one another's limits.That would be up to you and her. Again. Most people in the BDSM community really don't go to those kinds of extremes. Some do but it tends to be rare. In my experience, it's more likely that a sub is going to want a dom to go farther than he or she is willing to go than it is that a dom is going to want to cross the line.This is a common sense thing. You would likely cause serious injury if you even tried something like that. And I doubt there are many female subs on the planet who would really be willing to take it that far.I'm not a dom but obviously, these people have to stay within the limits of the law. There's a basic guideline most people in the BDSM community go by called "Safe, sane and consensual". Accidents happen and sometimes people do get carried away but common sense should rule the day. Virtually nobody wants to die or risk life or limb in order to satisfy a kink.As I said before, I think this is likely. Like I said, I spent some time in the past looking for particularly sadistic doms because I wanted someone to take me places I'd never been. I was not subtle about it and asked them for what I wanted in plain English. I didn't find a single one who satisfied me. Yes. It was a disappointment.Well, think of it this way. You probably know how hard it is even in the mainstream for people to find others who they're compatible with. Imagine how hard it gets when you start looking for partners who are into very specific things. And not only that but who are also completely comfortable with you, themselves and the nature of the thing. It gets harder and harder the more specific your interests are. At some point, it becomes completely impractical and/or unsafe in the real world. This is where the sex industry comes in because they're in a very unique position to do these things relatively safely. People come to them. They don't have to spend a lot of time looking for people. The problem (as Stephan noted) is that the trust isn't always going to be there. It's an awkward thing to try to just start something like an S&M scene with a person you just met. I would imagine this would be even more pronounced in an industry in which you might start a scene and realize the girl has no interest whatsoever in S&M and she lied about it so you'd hire her. Edited by - randomprecision on 10/9/2008 2:39:17 PM [Link] |
| tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 3:43PM I've been enjoying your posts, but I'd like to answer an alternate viewpoint about the 'always knew' thing. The first time I was choked in a sexual situation, it was by a guy that I didn't have fabulous chemistry with, so I wasn't into it. At ALL. The director, Joey Silvera, was awesome and told the guy to chill out and not choke me anymore. Less than a year later, I was having sex with a guy I was really into, and he choked me lightly. I was surprised that I was really into it. Over time, I explored my limits and found that a lot of things really turned me on. I also tried a few things that didn't do much for me, so I didn't do those again. One of my most surprising self-discoveries: I'm moderately claustrophic. I don't like crowded spaces at ALL, but I usually don't have panic attacks unless it gets really bad. However, once (to test my sexual limits and to challenge myself) I asked a dominant to put me in a version of this latex sleepsack. I wasn't sure if I'd like feeling pinned down, but I had already established that I was turned on by being cuffed to arm spreaders, put in Japanese bondage ropes, and being chained to things. Turns out I was REALLY turned on by the feeling of the sleepsack. Another instance after that, I couldn't pass up an opportunity to try a vacuum bed. Once again, I was slightly worried about the confinement but I was turned on by a dominant there, and she promised to frequently touch me softly until I let her know if I was ok or not. I also trusted that she wouldn't leave me in there if I started to panic. I was so turned on that just the excitement combined with the touch of her hand through the latex made me really wet. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Oct 9 2008 : 8:22PM They are looking for women who have been abused or pushed past their consent and are having a breakdown on camera. The most sought-after scenes are when the woman has complained that she was hurt without her consent (Roxy Jezel, Rebecca Linares, the Donkey Punch video, some Meatholes scenes). There is a difference between S&M and abuse and that difference is based on the consent of both parties. If people are enjoying scenes where they know the woman is not enjoying herself, is in real pain and says she was abused, I feel perfectly fine judging them. There's playacting and there's real life, abusing someone against their will is wrong. Watching it for your own pleasure is sick. I know you like to avoid 'judging' others RP (and ironically judge others who do harshly) but sometimes you push it to ridiculous extremes. Edited by - BlackSix on 10/9/2008 8:28:19 PM [Link] |
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