Reviewers Recommend Sweat Equity 5 - review by Captain Jack Director: Laurent Sky, Julia Grandi Starring: April Snow, Sawyer Cassidy, Serenity Cox, Eva Generosi. Read review
It didn't breed resentment against white women. They received the greatest benfit.
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2. The North DID ignore racism in slavery era South (ever hear of the Dred Scott case?) and for the most part ignored in the Segregation era instead allowing for local leaders to step up.
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Yes I have. I am pleased to see that you have heard of it. Its a fascinating case. Slavery ended earlier in the north than in the south, in the place of legally sanctioned bondage for life. The north instituted black laws,and segregation.
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If I don't want to serve blacks in my restaurant that I own, that I put my blood, sweat and tears into why do you get to tell me that I have to serve them?
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A business is free to refuse anyone service on a case by case basis. It is illegal to erect a sign "we do not serve Irishmen here"
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If I dont' want to work along side Mexicans. . .well that severely limits my work opportunities (particularly here in Southern California) again I'll either change my tune or I'll starve. Either way problem solved.
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It works for everyone. Except in porn
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If I dont' want women working at my Apple Store go tell your friends I'm a sexist nobody shops at my store again I go out of bussiness.
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Yeah I'm thinking in this case your ass would get the door. In the case you don't want blacks I could see it going on for decades until the right black person was refused a position.
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So where do you get the authority to tell me how I should live my life? Who decided that and why?
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I do not have the authority. Where does any industry get the authority to limit my ability to make a living simply because I belong to a certain ethnic group.
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For that matter why aren't we having a debate over the number of men who refuse to work with men? Without even gandering at the porn agencies I'm going to guess it's north of 50%
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Well if you decide on the gay film industry as a career choice you will have to have sex with homosexuals. Refusing to fuck some guy is not the same as a heterosexual male refusing to fuck a beautiful woman because she black.
The only reason Jamal lives in Bubba's neighbourhood is because Bubba's great-great-grandaddy bought Jamal's great-great-grandaddy for a ridiculously small sum of money, even for the time period. So to say that they "shouldn't live in certain places" - well, maybe they shouldn't, but the whites can only blame themselves for buyin' 'em in the first place. BTW, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.And where do you suppose Jamal should go? He's not African anymore; his kin haven't been there for centuries. He's not American - not really. It was a country founded on the premise that he would be a slave. Bubba won't hire him, so it's not like he could afford to up and move to another country, even if he wanted to desert the only family and friends he's ever known. They say the proof that Black people aren't good swimmers is that we're still here - if we could swim half-decently we all would have swam back to Africa by now. It's a joke, of course, but it does shed a little bit of light on our situation. So to say "any place that I wasn't wanted that badly I simply wouldn't be" in reference to this is... well... unbelievably fucking ignorant, at best.Horseshit. The Los Angeles area (which would include Ventura and Orange counties, and probably others) has a significant Black population; but in fact, per capita, it's comparable to that of Toronto, Montreal, London, England and Sao Paolo, Brazil. (All of which have porn industries that do not consider "interracial" as something you would or would not do). I was going to do a detailed description of it all, but I just can't be bothered. Here are the links, figure it out for yourself. (I won't even make 'em clickable, 'cuz your argument is so weak it doesn't deserve that kind of attention.) http://www.maps.com/ref_map.aspx?pid=11644 http://www.cagenweb.com/plumas/map_files/image007.gif http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574117_2/London_(England).html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Montreal http://www.laalmanac.com/population/po24la.htm http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6891195/Housing-experiences-of-Black-Africans.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_toronto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sao_paolo#Demographics
^Dean Wormer, who the fuck needs a solution? Just do like all the other countries do, and everything will be fine! I promise. This shit ain't rocket science.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 2:55AM
^ Which countries, Saudi Arabia where the women have to do whatever they are told? Without a solution the same people will be moaning and crying about this subject ad nauseam.
^No, man, all the other countries with porn industries.
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awall Deactivated User
58 Posts 8/08
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 4:34AM
Any girl in porn valley L.A. will tell you that, when they say no interracial, it means no black guys. Like hannah west says she lovesss white guys and isn't attracted to anything but white guys. Says shes not attracted to black or asian guys. But says she has no problems working with asians, lations ect..what ever group you wanna name but has a problem working with blacks.
Point is, it might not be to many of these other groups around, but these girls will tell you they have no problem working with them, just ask any of them. Take a pacific islander and stick them in front of a "no interracial girl" and none of these girls would refuse to work with him, i bet you. It doesn't matter if the girl feels attraction towards the guy, as long as he's not black. if the guy is not black, girls will only not work with the guy based off things they have heard or other reasons. Never because of the color of their skin. the porn girls rule in L.A. is pretty simple.. no interracial = i will have sex with any human as long as hes not black.
Yeah the excuse that it will hurt their career is just not credible. If they just don't want to do it than I accept that. I'm sure most girls who don't do interracial are not outright racist (though probably some are). Just don't make up silly excuses. Not one major star who doesn't do interracial would hurt her career at all by doing an interracial scene; in fact their appeal would probably expand beyond what it is now.
Solution. We can be honest about it. [Mod edit: ntfighter, if you look up you'll notice I deleted the post that you asked about. But only because you asked explicitly. In general, you can't "delete" a post, but you can edit it and remove the contents. I'd advise against doing it though, as usually people get all suspicious and shit when they see an empty post that's been edited. The best thing to do is just add a little section at the end that says something like "[edit: I realized this post is invalid/double post/whatever, please ignore.]" And then people will understand because they've probably done the same thing before. They'll ignore it, and no one will be suspicious that you're trying to change history. ] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/24/2008 2:03:22 PM
I'm not sure there is a solution that can be used. Discrimination is hard enough to prove in the real world or real business. Not like you can go around and just put lie-detectors on everyone legally. In porn I think its especially tough, since companies can, and often do, hide behind the women who do it. It's one thing to prove a women is a bigot for not working with a certain section of male ethnicity, but it's a whole other thing to prove that woman or companie discriminated by refusing to hire such male because of it. Discrimination's been around a helluva lot longer than the porn industry. And given porn's iffy position on legal status, discrimination is the least of their worries right now. The foot's got to be firmly inside the door before regulations and enforcement can happen. Edited by - aplus on 9/24/2008 3:07:04 PM
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Knuckle Kids Deactivated User
287 Posts 4/08
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 3:14PM
IMHO, The only time that its a big deal and extremely hot is if the father of the southern porn star is a complete and utter racist and she is doing the black guys to really piss off her father. Even better would be the racist suitcase pimp boyfriend pushing his girl into doing porn. The one day he's not on set holding the clean up towel for her, she's airtight and doublestuffing her mouth with BBCs and giving shout outs and waves to the suitcase pimp on film. Kind of like when Callie Cox would tossing a black salad and the interviewer would ask her to say hi to her hubby. She'd wink and say "Hi Honey!"
1. I haven't tried to put myself in control of your time, money and body. I have tried to argue that maybe someone should though, if it's best for all. As great an idea as "individualism" sounds, if what someone is doing is fucking over others, I don't see why I or anyone else should not only have a right to stop it, but should be compelled to do so. 2. The definition of "racist" (or, rather, "racial discrimination", which is the term more commonly used today) does not entail something that focuses on a race. It's something that focuses on doing something to put that race at a disadvantage. I posted the definition earlier in this thread. Having said that, I didn't answer your question because I don't think it has much to do with what we're talking about. One is about exclusion, the other about inclusion. Even if the inclusion isn't ideal, or completely without racial prejudice, it's still inclusion. It's the exclusion that I'm concerned about right now. You can only speak your voice at the table if you have a place at the table. Men of all races (except Black) are free to sit at the "table" of LA porn and know that they won't be ixnayed by the majority of porn girls based solely on their race. Blacks don't have that privilege. Whether or not "I love Latinas" is a good or bad idea doesn't change this situation. The Latino males aren't excluded. The Black males are. In your own words, "Totally different situation." I think it's easy to get bogged down in many problems and decide that because we don't have solutions to all of them, we shouldn't try to find - or there can't be - solutions to any given one of them. Personally I'd like to fix one problem, and then try to fix the next one. It's less daunting that way. 3. I didn't say that the other nations were as diverse as LA. I said that those other metropolitan areas are. That's what we're talking about here: particular areas where a porn industry is centred. As for the sources being dubious; if you factor in the "white counties" around LA, which have between 1.5-3.5% black population, then yes, the LA area has a similar percentage of black people to the other metropolitan areas I listed. All approx 6-8% black (including surrounding counties/regions/whatever is included in that particular city's metropolitan area). 4. I have as much carte blanche to be a dick as anyone else here at ADT. Which is to say, I can make arguments, be firm with my points, etc. I cannot be unrealistically offensive or insulting, and I have not done so. I really didn't think your argument was worth making clickable links, and I said so. But I still responded to the argument, and I still gave you the links. You just had to cut and paste. [edit: I wrote "our" when I meant to write "your", which completely fucked up my sentence. I hate it when I do that. It's fixed now.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/24/2008 4:16:07 PM
Killbill I gotta say it is refreshing to see a mod or group owner not afraid to tackle or even question this very delicate subject online. To say I've felt stifled other similiar places would be an understatement. Not sure I'd know where to start, but I always felt the business could do itself a service by occasionally hiring black performers who didn't look like they just got out of prison or who are always somehow thuggish looking. Might also help if they didn't always hire black guys who dicks always arrive 20 seconds before they do in a room. How you present yourselves matters to as does blown stereotypes, plus it takes away at least two reasons to not get hired.
1. I actually agree with you on this point. I just don't feel that economics is the proper place for this. I have an odd feeling though that Saddam=Badman isn't a sufficent reason in your mind to take away his country. (I'm speculating there though, it seems that the PC *sorta* crowd and pro-US intervention crowds are mutually exclusive) 2. I don't see how you could fix this problem shy of quotas. I understand that blacks have a harder time in this particular industry and it's unfortunate but I don't really see a plausible solution. 3. I ceded this point to you already. 4. I remained civil(ish) at the very least I'm not banned or suspended so we be cool.
What about titles like this? Do you not think this is at least highly disrespectful to black people! Do you not think that some girls may not want to be associated with IR porn because it is it's self racist?
It sounds like we be cool on a lot of stuff. Good enough for me. Let's consider that jazz settled.Well, the easy way is to just act like all the other countries with porn industries. If they've all figured it out, there's no reason the US can't as well. They can just stop being racist fuckheads, and everything will work out fine. It's actually pretty easy.(Hey why not deal with more controversy in the thread, right?) You've speculated correctly (sort of). If his country had been taken away because he was bad, that would be one thing. But that's not why it happened. My problem with the Iraq war has nothing to do with whether Saddam was good or bad. It's that from the very start, the whole thing was a lie. Version 1 given by the Bush admin of why it is imperative to invade: Iraq was behind 9/11. Turned out to be false. (At this point, already people should have been suspicious. They gave a reason why the country should go to war against Iraq. That reason turned out to indicate that the country should go to war against Afghanistan, and not Iraq, which they did. Yet they still wanted to go to war against Iraq. Hmmmmmmm.) Version 2: Iraq has WMD's. Turned out to be false. After they "found out" that Iraq had no WMD's (which the entire world already knew), version 3 came along: Saddam is bad to his people. Funny that this didn't matter before. There was no concern whatsoever about what he may or may not be doing to the Iraqi people ever since the end of the Gulf War. In fact, US sanctions easily did as much to harm the Iraqi people as Saddam ever did. But suddenly, Saddam's treatment of his people was so bad that it just couldn't wait. He had to be stopped NOW. Was Saddam a bad dude? Of course he was. Should the US have gone to war? Should they have gone to war with South Africa? No. And if it was really about Saddam, they didn't need to go to war with Iraq. Hell, if it was really about Saddam, they would have gotten rid of him the first time. It has never been about Saddam. If it was really about bad people and saving the country, they would have gone to war wit North Korea twenty years ago. And if not twenty years ago, then every year since. But they never did. They never really even talked about it. Even though it was painfully obvious that Kim Jong Il was treating his citizens far worse than Saddam ever did. So why didn't the US go to war with North Korea? If it was really about bad people and saving the country, they would have gone to war with Pinochet in Chile. They didn't of course, because the US put him in charge in the first place. If it was really about bad people and saving the country, there would be far more US troops in Sudan than in Iraq. But there aren't. Because it has never been about intervention. I'm not anti-US intervention. Intervention would be great. But the US has never done any. Again, I'm the kind of guy who likes to call things by their real name: this isn't intervention, it's colonialism. Anyone who, at any point, has thought this war to be about anything other than oil, has been played.
Disgusting.Yup.Probably. Do you not think that some girls may no want to be associated with (insert other genre of porn here) because it is itself misogynistic/sexist/backward-thinking/western-centred/imperialist/something else? No girls have "no tall guys" on their models cards because this title is heightist. No girls have "no old guys" on their model cards because this title is ageist. You certainly don't see 70% of porn girls saying they won't do g/g, despite the presence of titles like these. If all of those things DID happen, maybe I'd think you had a point. As it is, the only thing you'll ever see is "no IR". The fact is that there are tons of scenes where a non-black woman fucks a black man and the scene doesn't have anything to do with how bad it is that she's sleeping with a negro. So any woman can do a scene like that, and relax.
There's lots of genres of porn that certain girls don't do and for many different reasons. I just don't like the idea of labeling all girls that don't do IR racist! I'm sure some are and some are not. I also believe the term racist has different levels to it. Hitler's racial genocide at the highest level and a comedian telling a non-PC joke at the other end. My view on porn girls refusal to do IR is way down towards the least offensive side of racial problems that can be encountered in the world.
Yeah I'm pretty sure I never said that all girls who choose not to do IR are racist. What I said was that the fact that a girl choosing not to do IR is more common than not - whereas a girl choosing not to do tall guys is ridiculous - is racist. The problem is that the LA porn industry itself is racist. This causes all sorts of crazy things to happen including, potentially, non-racist girls refusing to do IR.
My view on this subject is if I think a girl is hot and she doesn't do IR I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is still a decent person and buy her movies. If a porn girl or anyone else comes out and says she/they support the KKK/neo-nazi's or makes a hateful racist comment, I will boycott their product!
@ Aplus: Do you think my views are naive? To me, what a few porn girls do is so inconsequential in terms of the racial problems that are occuring in the world that I can't make a big issue out of it.
She may be an otherwise decent person. I think it would be best for me to form my opinion based on the evidence. Rather than wait for someone to "up the the ante". Edited by - ntfighter on 9/25/2008 5:30:22 PM
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awall Deactivated User
58 Posts 8/08
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 4:59PM
She looks at blacks as third-class citizens. I personally would never buy or watch their stuff. They are porn racist, not KKK type racist. Its common sense to know what a person means. Just like if a white girl says she doesn't do interracial, shes talking about black dudes only, not latin, asian, arabs, ect..even though technically it is interracial when they fuck them. Kacey Jordan says she didn't bang blacks off screen, just whites, so shes not gonna do it on screen. SO ughh she didn't bang latinos and asians either, but has worked with both. Negros are these girls only problem, understand what i mean? They are racist based off the fact they only single out blacks, i don't get why people fail to understand this. Basically saying blacks aren't like other humans. Again, not KKK racist, but porn racist. There's a reason a lot of these women only come black, when they are old and washed up, because blacks are the bottom of the barrel. But all this debating isn't going anywhere, so im done. They are racist to me and im sticking to it because im right. I speak with cold hard facts.
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CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User
225 Posts 9/08
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 5:56PM
I agree with you pretty much amlost all the way, except, when you stated when they are old and washed up they'll do blacks. Sasha Grey, Bree Olsen, Bobbi Star, Inari Vachs and many other white females had sex with blacks in front of the camera, when they got started in the adult film industry, in the middle of their career and towards the end. Plus, they are young, Unless your talking about Nina Hartley, she started very late in her career, she's the only one I can think of that started really late. lol
https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=125877/forum_id=1/cat_id=1/125877.htm Cant remember the movie. Nina Hartley did do a scene with Ron Jeremy and FM Bradley. This had to be in the 80's.
Dana, Makes me feel better. :) Okay...end of levity. Back to serious discussion. "I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means 'no.' " ~ Captain Barbossa in Pirates of the Caribbean
What are these IR porn movies doing then? I linked to some titles earlier in the thread. I find the fact that movies like those exists much more offensive than the fact some girls are not doing IR. I'm struggling with the fact that people are disgusted that white girls are saying no to IR porn but seem perfectly happy that the product is often derogatory at the very least and more often than not highly racist its self!
I really don't care. Again I said some girls just aren't attracted to certain types. A girl saying "I'm not attracted to black guys" isn't saying she is racist or hates black people. I can live with a girl telling me she's not attracted to me, I've fucked over 100 women, a dozen or so who I was the first black man to sleep with and it was a curiosity thing. And then there were plenty I tried to hook up with that gave me the red light because they weren't attracted to me or any dark men, black, Indian, etc. And what about those who only date black men. I've seen profiles of girls on sites - white men don't message me, I only date black men. How does one feel about that? I hang around some of these girls, they have white guy friends but they aren't attracted to them. Anyway I know the subject is porn stars who don't do black men because they are racist but that demographic does have to be thrown in.
There's been many variations of this topic and I feel compelled to add my two cents. There's maybe one starlet(among the starlets I'm a fan of)out there that I'm constantly amazed hasn't done IR yet. It isn't a grave offense not to have done so by now. She's done a lot kinky stuff but can't get down with the brown. Hey, she has her reasons. Yes, I'm referring to Harmony Rose. Dana we enjoy your sensuous work! Please continue doing it. Edited by - mug_glazer on 10/3/2008 2:37:42 PM
The fact is that no matter what you do, somebody will have a problem with it. Are their racists? Obviously. Does it really matter what color a cock is? It's shouldn't. To some people, it does whether it should or not. Some people are offended by the existence of IR porn because they feel it (in and of itself) is racist. Others are offended by it because they're racists. Others are offended by it because they hate porn. I'm sure someone is offended by it because Bobo, the master of the deep has commanded it to be so. This is absurd! It's porn! Just jack off and blow off some steam and then get back to real living where it doesn't really matter what color your cock is.
It would be ok if their disfavor were directed at all dark skinned people, but that is not the case. Their bias is specifically toward African Americans You are referencing a different situation. In this example the girl made a personal choice regarding you individually "I can live with a girl telling me she's not attracted to me,". My objection is to the blanket statement and the idea it contain that no matter who he is, or what he looks like, the fact that he is African American triggers her rejection. Weather she is racist or not Her behavior is undeniably racist. What evidence do we have too the contrary? Cognitive dissonance In psychology, cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a fundamental cognitive drive to reduce this dissonance by modifying an existing belief, or rejecting one of the contradictory ideas. Often one of the ideas is a fundamental element of ego, like "I am a good person" or "I made the right decision." This can result in rationalization when a person is presented with evidence of a bad choice, or in other cases. Prevention of cognitive dissonance may also contribute to confirmation bias or denial of discomforting evidence. Experiments have attempted to quantify this cognitive drive. Studies have not so far detected any gender or cross-cultural differences.[1]
Let us confine the discussion to mainstream American culture,and not to fringe elements that hold radical views that are clearly outside the cultural norm. If we stick to this your opening statement though true, can be regarded as not applicable. "Others are offended by it because they're racists." The racist are producing the porn we buy. They have encouraged an environment where they are comfortable with discrimination against one specific group.
OK. So let's just say for the sake of argument that you're a person who enjoys watching black men fuck white women because you feel black men tend to be better performers. How do you find what you're looking for if the IR genre doesn't exist? Let's just say everything is labeled "Porn". That way we have to wade through oceans of porn we're not even interested in for the sake of not offending anyone. You're making yourself into a joke and you're making a serious issue (racism) into an excuse to make a stink about something. Edited by - randomprecision on 9/26/2008 6:46:31 PM
Ok I'm going to take this from the end first.After the post immediately before you complemented everyone on their sensible and interesting posts, you come in with this criticism? I feel like you must be reading a different thread. In particular, if you feel he's a joke because he finds it a problem to call black people a "fetish", you're certainly missing all the points that have been made in this thread so far.This would really be the problem, as you see it? Do you really think it's a more ideal situation that 70% of non-black women continue to avoid working with black men as IR continues to be pushed to the outside and remains a "fetish" or a "genre", just so you don't have to look at the box cover before you buy the movie? Because that's really all it would take for you to know if there's an IR scene in the movie or not. Let's say for the sake of argument that you're a person who enjoys watching some black men because you find them to be better performers. Well I'm assuming then that you'd know who they are, because you're saying that they're better performers, and surely not every black man is a better performer simply because he's black* . So clearly you're talking about particular black performers that you know of already. So why don't you just search for their names? You'd be in the same boat now as all the guys who prefer watching Manuel Ferrera over John Strong, or Mr Marcus over Brian Pumper, or person A over person B. It's really not that hard at all. So it looks to me like what you're saying is this: you're so against the people who don't want racism (against black people in particular) to be inherent to the porn industry that you're willing to call them a joke, because you don't want to have to use the search function at your favourite porn webstore. Do I have that right? ________________ *footnote: UNLESS you really are saying they're better simply because they're black - in which case fuck you very much for heaping some racial/sexual stereotypes on me, and get over it. I don't see why ntfighter should be reduced to a "joke" simply because you've got strange ideas about the "hyper-sexual animal" that is the black male. [edit: typos] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/26/2008 7:21:53 PM
I see you are passionate about this very serious subject. I'm impressed with the depth of your feelings I agree. Racism is a very serious issue. Especially to those who are directly affected.
^Um, no I was mentioning your post. As in, it seemed strange that you could come and post that you were happy with how civil and reasonable everyone was being, and then in the very next post RP could come and post that he thought ntfighter was being so ridiculous that he had turned the whole thing into a joke. It seemed very much at odds with your post, Dr_Fell. I hope I didn't misrepresent you in any way.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 3:40AM
Gee I'm a southern "porn star" (for lack of a better term) who doesn't fuck black men. Does that make me a racist? or just a bigot? Am I prejudiced or just discriminating? The term racist has an absolute meaning but it has been so overused and bastardized that it has largely become ambiguous and lost it's desired effect. Too bad people who argue this nonsense generally don't use the right word in it's proper context, they might just find that they could argue their point a lot better.
Sweat Equity 5 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 9:17PM
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