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All Forums > Tech Talk > Tech Talk Forum Page 60 > TiVo users, beware: Big Brother's watching

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ultradamno Senior Member Silencio... 12877 Posts 2/00	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 11:44AM From The Chicago Sun Times: TiVo users, beware: Big Brother's watching February 5, 2004 BY PHIL ROSENTHAL TELEVISION CRITIC Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson exposed more than her distinctive taste in jewelry at halftime of the Super Bowl. You know TiVo? That newfangled digital video recorder that enables you to watch live telecasts as if they were on tape and remembers to record your favorite shows even when you don't? Justin and Janet's little dance with community standards served to remind us that when we watch TiVo, our TiVo can watch us. "The close of Timberlake and Jackson's halftime duet drew the biggest spike in audience reaction TiVo has ever measured," the company said in a news release issued Monday. "Viewership spiked up to 180 percent as viewers used unique TiVo DVR capabilities to pause and replay live television to view the incident again and again." You thought no one else knew you went back to see if you saw what you thought you saw, that you put Jackson's image on freeze frame so you could show your spouse and your pals or how you went back and forth to watch Justin tear Janet's dress, put it back, tear it and so on. Turns out there was a spy in the room with you, taking notes, keeping track of every click on your remote control. Your TiVo box may have been paying closer attention to what you were watching than you were. Monday's revelation was based on a random sampling of 20,000 TiVo boxes. The owners of those boxes were unaware they were being tracked during the Super Bowl, but TiVo says it knows next to nothing about the box owners. Owners like you. Like me. "It noticed that boxes were doing that, but it didn't notice it was Phil's box that was doing that," TiVo spokesman Scott Sutherland said, explaining that, despite the phone hookup that allows your box to exchange info with the company's home computer, very little data on your habits is shared typically. "We don't need to know who you are to make sure TiVo records 'Friends' for you." That's some relief. But the potential for TiVo to know more and sell that info is obvious. A deal between TiVo and A.C. Nielsen, the firm that monitors overall TV viewership, was announced Wednesday that will have a group of TiVo users volunteering to have their viewing monitored for just that purpose. So long as we stay out of that group, Sutherland says we shouldn't worry even though our TiVo box can notice which channels we zap past and on which channels we pause. He says it should be of no concern the box can log which commercials we sit through, which ones we fast-forward over and which ones we rerun again and again because they're more entertaining than regular programming. TiVo, he says, has no reason to pinpoint the exact moment at which we give up on Jay Leno's monologue and return to David Letterman or to Ted Koppel or to that late-night flick on Cinemax. Not yet anyway. "I'm terrified every time I get on an airplane that it's going to fall out of the sky, but I know that it's much more reasonable to believe ... that plane is going to take off and land where it's supposed to go," Sutherland said. "I understand people have privacy concerns [about TiVo]. But when you look at the actual track record and the policy and procedures, that may not be altogether justifiable." Of course privacy can be a two-way street. Say you're accused of a crime and you claim you were at home watching TiVo. Can the records at TiVo, if subpoenaed, provide the necessary info to back up your alibi? "The bad news is no, they could not," Sutherland said. "The good news is [that information] is in your home. It's in your box. They're not going to have to get it from TiVo. They can take it out of your box, and find it themselves." So when you have TiVo, you're never watching alone. You may be embarrassed now that TiVo noticed you ogling at Janet Jackson, but it also someday could keep you out of jail. Lawyers will call it the TiVo Defense. Click to expand [Link]
MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 12:30PM TiVo's privacy policy and data gathering practices were clearly laid out from the very beginning for those who took the time to read it. The TiVo spokesperson is not saying anything different than TiVo has said about their use of the aggragate data they gather when they first started. The data TiVo gathers is specific to the "TiVo user" demographic. They don't gather or distribute personal information or viewing habits. This was made clear to people who paid attention from the beginning. The fact that they know that a bunch of TiVo users were pausing and reviewing material is not inconsistant with their prior practices. TiVo has always been very up front about this point. Mike L. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 1:30PM it is my hope that good stats will make for better programing and a better functioning tivo. right now tivo does a poor job of picking shows you might like. stats/feedback are indispensible to our bettering adt. [Link]
GaySatyr Senior Member Half dirty ol' man; half horny ol' goat! 1684 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 3:30PM Having used both, I much prefer the other DVR, ReplayTV. It has better conflict resolution (like when two shows you want to record are on at the same time), with current models even able to off-load the displaced recording event to another ReplayTV unit connected to a home network. Plus, it is easier to use. Best of all, however, is a multimedia computer with a high-end video card, a high-end audio card, the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350, a trio of WinTV PVR 250 models, and lots of hard drive space. With one machine you could record up to four sources simultaneously while watching something stored or on DVD and burning something else to DVD. Works like a charm. ~ GaySatyr [Link]
cobalt60 Knuckle Dragger 2046 Posts 2/03	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 3:31PM Steph wrote: it is my hope that good stats will make for better programing and a better functioning tivo. right now tivo does a poor job of picking shows you might like. stats/feedback are indispensible to our bettering adt. Click to expand That reminds me of that article a few months back about "My TiVo Thinks I'm Gay" in the Wall Street Journal, so the guy started recording lots of war movies -- then it started giving him recommendations on documentaries and biopics about figures from the Third Reich! Too much. Artificial intelligence has a LONG way to go. [Link]

Jeff @ IAFD Webmaster IAFD.COM 931 Posts 6/00	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 3:47PM GaySatyr wrote: Having used both, I much prefer the other DVR, ReplayTV. It has better conflict resolution (like when two shows you want to record are on at the same time), Click to expand Say WHAT?!? The Replay's conflict resolution is HORRIBLE! I have one Replay and three TiVOs; and the Replay was on the eBay brink far too many times to count. I ended up replacing it with a Tivo Series 2, since it frustrated me to no end, and I moved it into the bedroom, for the ability to pause the live TV; but I rarely record anything with it since I have found its "letting me know what's going on" to be dicey at best. Give me a TO DO list and a priority list... that's all I want. I'm a simple guy. :-) with current models even able to off-load the displaced recording event to another ReplayTV unit connected to a home network. Click to expand This does require more than one Replay... tho I will admit this is a nice-ish feature. Plus, it is easier to use. Click to expand Bull. The remote is awful; you need to hit STOP (STOP?!?) to change a channel in the middle of recording... they took a tired VCR paradigm and basicially just replaced the tape with a hard drive, where TiVO re-invented the way to deal with TV. I could go on listing the reasons I hate my Replay and love my TiVO... however, it's not all bad... I do enjoy DVArchive for the Replay -- playback streams on your computer and burn to disc... and wish there was a simpler way to do it with the TiVO... but I know TiVO is doing everything they can to be a "good neighbor" to their Media Overlords, so as to not get slapped with a bankrupting lawsuit... What I never understood is why my six year ol RCA VCR has a commerical skip feature, and no one seemed to give a crap. It makes the screen go blue (or I can watch the commericals zip by if I like) and comes back on using the same technology Replay uses... so why didn't Valenti, et al. try to bankrupt GE, and call me a thief for skipping the commercials back then? God, I hate Big Media. Best of all, however, is a multimedia computer with a high-end video card, a high-end audio card, the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350, a trio of WinTV PVR 250 models, and lots of hard drive space. With one machine you could record up to four sources simultaneously while watching something stored or on DVD and burning something else to DVD. Works like a charm. Click to expand ... and it only costs 5 times as much! :-) J [Link]
GaySatyr Senior Member Half dirty ol' man; half horny ol' goat! 1684 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 3:54PM I've upgraded ReplayTV models as new ones have become available. There is far more that I like about current Replay models as compared to current TiVo models -- but that is just me. Yes, putting together the media computer I described is expensive; however, its versatility is phenomenal and there are no subscription costs at all, which, over the years, adds up to a pretty penny. ~ GaySatyr Edited by - GaySatyr on 2/5/2004 3:56:00 PM [Link]
MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02	Posted - Feb 5 2004 : 5:11PM Getting back to the topic of privacy policies: Replay's privacy policy is a joke compared to TiVo's. Replay basically says, "we'll do what we want". While TiVo is specific about what they will and won't do. In fact, there have been hackers that have analyzed the information that their TiVo unit sends back "home" and CONFIRMED that TiVo is only sending aggregate data with no individual information. Plus if you're REAL paranoid, you can opt out of TiVo's data gathering process if you like. As a friend of mine is fond of saying. Your local grocery store knows more about you when you use one of their club cards than TiVo does. Off the topic of privacy though. I think the TiVo is easy to use, and I find the suggestion feature helpful on occasion, even given its limitations. But the fact is, I'm more active about what I want than to rely on the suggestions. As far as conflict resolution, I'm with AMF. Give me a "to do" list and season pass priorities... I'll take care of the rest. :) Oh, and as far as subscription, TiVo still offers a lifetime (lifetime of the individual TiVo unit, not the subscriber) subscription for $299. Build that into the price of the unit and you've got a fixed cost that doesn't add up. Mike L. Edited by - MLyons on 2/5/2004 5:12:56 PM [Link]
neophyte Member UK 101 Posts 2/04	Posted - Feb 6 2004 : 8:38AM Isn't there another side to this kind of argument? If it's apparent from data logs that most everyone wants sexual content in their programming does that not give the lie to periodic cries of moral outrage about pornography? The Web made depictions of explicit sex freely available for the first time in the UK, and that has changed public attitudes. For example prime time TV Jonathan Ross, who has a 10:30 pm chat show on Friday evenings makes a point of saying how much he enjoys masturbation and how often he does it [thus demonstrating how cool and hip he is]. Will sexual scandals in politics ever be the same again after Bill Clinton? [Link]

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