I do keep a mental track of what companies aren't into IR and I don't purchase anything from them . Like Chico said I vote with my wallet.

I think there is a deep rooted fear some people have that if a no IR attitude takes hold of many companies and stars then there will little to no IR porn shot. That's just my guess no hard facts to back that up.

ETA: I do find if amusing when I see a asian star say no IR yet every American porn they'll do would be IR.

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Very well said. I think if more Pornstars would answer it that honest and basic this whole thing wouldn't be an issue.

Tricia,

I respectfully disagree with your idea about girls not doing IR is a size thing. I think since it seems you have a love of "Chocolate". Only the size would concern you.

My feeling is similar to Terri's. Male Talent want to enjoy themselves sexually in scenes(whether they admit it or not), so I think it's only fair Female Talent get to enjoy themselves too. I believe it's a mental thing for females. If they don't prefer IR in their personal life it only makes sense if they want to enjoy a scene they wouldn't do IR. I agree with Luke's idea when starting this Topic. It is a DAMN SAME that females get BASHED for sticking up for themselves and wanting to also enjoy themselves on film like the male talent do. I feel like this all comes from the 2 "addictions" the Porn consumers are struggling with. Those 2 are the "You gotta do IR!" group & the "Beat her & make her do a circus act!" group. I think it's going to take a lot of STRONG females to start movement to break these 2 "addictions".

Just my thoughts,

AC Cream

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If a girl doesn't want to work with a black male for any reason then they should leave alone. I would never want to a person of colour to work with someone who was a racist. If they hate black men they should just say it.

Chico Wang touched on another reason why black male pornstars are also discriminated against because There's a limited amount of girls doing interracial, only a black man fuck an Asian or white girl is classed as Interracial. Whereas a white guy fucking a Asian chick is not classed as interracial, its just classed as normal Boy/Girl. As far as I'm aware Oriental is a classed as a race, is it not?

I just think that some people are racist/racially prejudice without them realising it themselves, this issue only seem to be a problem with American girls and not European girls where producers don't face the problem of performers refusing to work with black men. So I don't think its a really a case of being sexually attracted to a person in terms of race in order for a woman to perform as Terri Summers stated otherwise it would apply in Europe as well.

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You ask a girl, do you do Interracial? When they respond only means if they'll work with black men.

It's funny to me and perhaps it's prejudice (there may be more to it than simplifying it like that), but these girls would fuck a hairy beast like the Minion or will fuck an annoying prick like myself, but won't fuck black guys? It doesn't matter to me either way but sometimes the lines of choice and racism do get a little fuzzy.

I'm not one to push it, nor will I. Personally I don't think there are enough qualified black talent out there that I can use. My favorite black guy went back to France so now I'm fucked. Hopefully I'll get to use Sledgehammer real soon.

Chico

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This is exactly the kind of racist comment that we will not tolerate. Since it has already been quoted I won't remove it. One more comment like this and I will remove your account though. -Steph

Edited by - Steph on 9/13/2004 3:03:37 PM

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I guess it depends on the person. I have been to shows where guys bring roses, and even sress up in hopes of getting a stars attention. Porn is fantasy, not reality.

When a star lies about race, I see through it, and too me. the non verbal is. "I'm smarter than you". I won't get into a stars intelligent, cause I have seen well read post like yours, and not so well read post by others. At the same time if you want my money, be real! I like, and even watch girls that don't do IR, the biggest turn off to me is a dodger, and when I say daoger, I'm referring to girl who dodge the question by lying.

I guess that works on weak minded no games fools, but "Porn Jedi Mind Tricks" don't work on me. In any case, for every fan you lose, you tend to gain two who share your perspective.

Just my two cents, but I stand behind it.

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Edited by - goofyfoot on 9/13/2004 12:43:17 AM

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You can't deny that's exactly what's at work here.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

You can call it crying wolf, and you can call it overdone, but you can't call it wrong! Nobody that that doesn't deal with racial descrimination is going to tell me what racism is!

Once again. I could give a squirt about who does who, but I cn do without the lies. We all go to work every day, and do what we need to survive. Most porn stars are forgotten within a few years of retiring, or dropping off the scene. I don't hear people talking about Janet Littledove, or Little Oral Annies IR works.

Doesn't change who or what they are, but I will say that 20 years from now, I'll still be PCP, and a whole lot of Porn women will have done things that they never claimed they would. Racism in porn is real, and 101 unintelligable post won't convince me that it doesn't exist.

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Steve Holmes

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My point is we should be careful about who we condemn as racist. A lot of Americans have become desensitized to the issue because a lot of people over the years (not necessarily you) have overplayed the race card. New approaches to the problem are necessary if progress is to be made.

Either way, I honestly don't really notice if a scene is interracial. When I see a black actor in a scene, I don't think of him as a black guy, but just another guy, just as I do in real life. Even while watching one of those interracial-themed movies, after a while I don't see it as a bunch of black guys with a white girl or whatever, but just sex.

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You continue to quote me out of context so let me say it to you like I would explain to a child. I'm not condeming people on thier beliefs, just on actions. This is not about Denny's not serving blacks, or coming in the back door. This is about starts not owning up to thier personal prefference cause they don't want to lose money from people that don't know any better.

I love IR, but it's only about 25% of my collection. When IR is a small part of the market, it's harder to find solid IR works. Women like Ariana Jolie who kept there mouth shut, did IR at thier leisure get all the respect in my book. Riot Sluts was an incredibe film, and her action spoke much louder than any bullshit quote or post she may have made.

Jenna can roll around with that sucka Dennis Rodman, and Jill Kelley can were her Tupac T-shirts, but neither of them will ever get my dollar, cause "Phoney is as Phoney does". When porn companies start takin' monopoly money, maybe I'd shell out $25 for one of thier titles, but until that day, my money is on Baltic Ave.

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The true logic lies in the fact that Truth far outweight prefference here. Either way, if a girl said it was her prefference to not screw black men, I'd still have more respect for that girl than her dancing around the issue and using one of the excused from David Letterman's top 10 list.

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Remember the part in the Forum Etiquette that says "You do not need to repeat your same opinion on something 122 times. 121
will suffice?"

At this point, I think that everyone who has posted has expressed their opinion sufficiently well that anyone reading for content will get it. That doesn't mean you have to agree with the opinions expressed, but it does mean that repeating yourself is a pointless exercise and I recommend you move on to something else.

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I am a black male who loves porn and I agree with you 100%. I have been wanting to say exactly what you have done so passionately with your posts.

You see, its something you can never understand unless you are black. An earlier poster had it correct: It's a fantasy breaker if you know that the porn star you are lusting after won't do "your type". In fact, this is one of the reasons I don't try to learn too much about porn stars: I may learn a reality that troubles me. If I've never seen a white starlet I like do black guys, then I can just imagine she's never been paired with one. Its better NOT to know the truth.

And I have exactly the same feeling regarding the ridculous category of IR as a "sex act" like anal, DP, swallowing, etc. It's like we are some kind of circus animals or freaks when in fact black males are just regular guys with different skin color. I have an older post where I allude to this.

Everyone goes on about personal choice, etc. And yes, maybe that is true. But it doesn't make it any less confusing when you know some girl will do DP, Anal, drink cum from shot glasses, get chocked, etc... but somehow having regular sex with a black guy is off limits? I know, I know ... it s a valid "choice". But think about the perception: having plain sex with "your kind" is more nasty and disgusting than drinking 10 loads of jizz from a shot glass. NOw think about that. I'm not saying force the girl to do something she doesn't want to do. I am just trying to let you guys know why it is slightly unnerving to Blue Sword and myself.

Anyway, thank you for bringing these issues to the forefront.

Edited by - tritone on 9/13/2004 8:57:27 PM

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Either way, I have plenty to do, but when it comes to race debates, I like to meet ignorance head on.

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Like I said on the other thread, I think as an issue this speaks more to the social views and peccadillos of the fans, and the industry who listens to and caters to them, than it does to the personal preferences of the girls.

If a girl were to say, {when asked}, that she doesn't do IR on camera, (and also in her private life), cuz she just isn't attracted to black men, I as a black man whould have zero problem with that and would take her at her word. I am not attracted to skinny blondes, and see no reason why I should have to defend or explain what is a purely personal preference. Neither should she.

BUT, the world being what it is, I know that should she make such a public statement, she will be used, without her consent as a symbol or posterchild for people who have social or personal agendas, on BOTH sides of the issue, far beyond respecting her personal choice.

And, like I also said on the other thread, (and others have said here), the discussion is further complicated by the fact that the issue of race and interracial sex is still such a hot button one in our world, that there is economic value associated with it's depiction in pornorgraphy. As others have pointed out, in porn there is economic incentive attached to a girl doing IR, much like there is with performing specific sex acts. (That is kinda disheartening, and pretty much all you need to know about where this issue still stands in the American social fabric. "Do you do anal? Would you fuck a dog? How about this black guy, would you fuck him?} In a form of backlash, there is also some popular cachet, if not direct economic benefit to the girl who public states a little too lustily that she WILL NOT do IR on camera, thereby pandering to a whole different fan base.

There is the example of Ariana Jolliee , who for a long time was thought to have no interest in including IR in her porn portfolio, therby making her a hero, wittingly or unwittingly, to a whole class of porn fans who did not want, for whatever reason, their white porn starlets participating in this scenario. Then, when either she or her handlers figured the time was right, she took on a couple of highly publicized IR roles, specifically designed to reach a new audience and broaden her appeal. I never really knew what Miss Jolliee's personal stance on the IR sex was, or if that stance changed to meet a new demand, but I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. Most entertainers want to reach the widest audience possible, and I assume that she is no different. If others held her up, or looked to her to be something she wasn't, or to represent something she didn't, that's on them.

There is a similar issue with Jenna Jameson , although apparently on a much larger scale. She HAS said publicly, that she wasn't interested in IR sex, and was somewhat evasive and vague about her reasoning. She has said that she likes black men and finds plenty of them attractive, and as others have mentioned, sometimes gives the impression that she, in the manner of all good politicians, is willing to pander to a constituency without really coming forth with the goods. But, when your star is as bright as hers, just like a politician, she has to weigh whether the few more tapes she might sell to an interracial market, is worth the loss of prestige and maybe even dollars that might come with a disappointed core constituency who feels that she let them down in some way. So her honest-to-God personal preferences might not even come into play, cuz she's such a big star. That's when it becomes disingenuous and hurtful.

"Sure Howard, I wouldn't mind fucking a black guy on camera, I sucked off Dennis Rodman in the parking lot on the way over here. But you know I'd lose legions of carefully cultivated fans, and a lot of money if I were to do that. This IS America, you know."*

Pretty sad.

In the final analysis, I don't need or care if every girl does IR, any more than I need for every girl to perform every sex act. And I don't need a referendum or inquisition into why some girl doesn't do IR. Enough of the girls that I dig, do IR and are sufficiently enthusiastic about it to satisfy my entertainment and stroking needs. Whether their motivation is true personal enjoyment, or pure professionalism, is immaterial to me. Just that they give an honest effort and are proud of their work is enough for me. And that they take facials.

BSD

*P.S. - Not a real conversation. (At least not one that I've seen.) Just me being facetious. A little. Smile.

Edited by - BSD on 9/14/2004 4:55:13 AM

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since racism in the porn industry is a senistive topic there are some who rather stick their heads in the sand rather than hear about the topic. since racism is not going away anytime soon, the discussion about it won't go away anytime soon either.

conjunction junction what's your function?

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The analogy might not stand. But with all of the physiological and psychological reasons that people are overweight, such as thryroid inbalances and depression, it doesn't fall on the basis that being fat is a choice.

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I'm not saying that weight is always an uncontrollable aspect of a person's make up. But it certainly is not a choice for many.

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It's not like the IR market isn't being well-served, because the majority of porn girls do it happily. I also know of a case or two where the girl might not do IR onscreen, yet has a black boyfriend. There are also cases where the girl's boyfriend or suitcase pimp is the one who doesn't allow it, so it's not always so cut and dried.

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People may have issue with weight, but not being able to controll your appetite is not the same as controlling your race. A salad three twice a day is not going to make you fat. For people that are skinny, a full meal with the four basic food groups is not going to keep you skinny. Race is race, and it can't be comparred to a super sized meal.

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And to flip the original question around :

"Why is it that if a girl in the industry
chooses not to do a IR seen is she blasted
By people i mean there is a thing called CHOICE
and By Blasting someone for there choice is
wrong so what's the Big deal with all this ?"

Why is it a big deal if a starlet does do IR porn and she gets blasted?

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What's that? You like your chicken broiled, not Bar B Qued? Chicken is chicken. I love good sex regardless of race, as long as it's straight.

People kill me. That's why this stuff is so damn distrurbing. It's more than choice to me, it's hypocritical!

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Personally, I like bangin' all races and I don't care who's fucking who as long as a scene is hot...But I can relate to Spew's comment in the respect that on the rare occassion that I watch a porn, I like to picture ME as the stunt cock. If a black guy is pounding a chick, it takes me out of the fantasy of me being with her cause it's obvious that black cock doesn't even slightly resemble mine. It's actually the same thing for uncircumsized guys in scenes. I can't relate being that I am circumsized and it taints my fantasy a little.

I also hate long sex scenes and usually fast forward to the pop on film before I pop. Does that make me gay? Of course not, but along the same theory, I like to vision that it's me splashin' her down in my fantasy.

Just my opinion. :)

Edited by - KSEXPJ_Wankus on 9/15/2004 2:47:05 AM

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I don't view all girls who don't do interracial as racist...but there definitely are some. I actually stopped asking guests on KSEXradio.com that question because I got pissed off with some of their responses.

Some just don't prefer it based on lack of attraction. I can't be mad at anyone for that....I'm not a big fan of red heads with pasty, freckled skin. Does that make me racist against Annie? LOL

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there are very, very few true porn fans. for those of you who are, i applaud you. what i mean by that is most of us have certain taste for only certain parts of porn. i am among the most of us. let's take katja kassin for example. there are three types of katja fans, ones who like to see her in scenes with ONLY white men, ones who like to see her in scenes with ONLY black men, and the TRUE katja fans, the ones who don't care who's she doing her scenes with. i suspect that is the fewest in number. to take this a step further it doesn't matter who the woman is in the scene. the bigger matter is the color of the guy or guys in the scene with the woman. the thing is we want the guy in the scene, for the most part, to look like us, no matter what color that singular consumer is.

and that is my take of racism in the porn industry.

conjunction junction what's your function?

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I can eat whatever I want all day long and never gain a pound, granted. But the converse is true for many.

I'm not even arguing that it's a perfect analogy, because race is not a physical disablility or medical condition. But in cases where being everweight is not a choice, which is a huge percentage of cases, it seems like a pretty good one.

Edited by - valjean4876 on 9/15/2004 8:31:41 AM

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Well, I'm a black man and I'm not defensive about racism in the porn industry. Actually, from a consumer perspective, I'm reasonably satisfied with the level of black participation and black offerings in the porn industry. I like interracial sex, and there is plenty of it in the porn industry. There may be a dearth of opportunity for black females to build careers in porn, but I think that's a function of what the market will bear.

Which brings me to your point. Do you think that all the groups of males that you identified as underrepresented on air in the porn industry are that way because of racism?

Or could it be because there is not a market for them?

I'm not saying that those groups aren't populated with handsome guys, many of them who know how to wield a cock with authority, but until you can convince the porn peddlers of the world that there is real money to be made hiring them to fuck Teagan on camera, it ain't gonna happen. That ain't racism. That's capitalism.

Besides, for me, this discussion was never about institutionalized racism in the porn industry. (Although it may have been for some others) It was about personal attitudes of performers, producers, and fans, and how that colored their individual perspective of the interracial question.

If you can get some hunky Eskimo guy to pound Katja Kassin in the manner of a Manuel Ferrara, Steve Holmes or Justin Slayer, I'll rent it. Get enough of them, and enough people to buy\rent it, and maybe everybody will make a dollar.

If you say that the market exists but it's not being served by the porn industry because of racism, then I see a golden, money-making, opportunity in your future.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 9/15/2004 4:26:34 PM

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A few years ago, one of my friends doing a semester abroad in a place with sub-optimal sanitation standards had to go on a cocktail of stuff for a spectacular eye-infection. It put an instant 25lbs on him that took 6 months to get off, and he had the ability to exercise. Pretty much all antipsychotics, many ssri's(zoloft, prozac...), and random stuff like heartburn medicine(nexium) can put serious weight on people, and for some the alternative to moderate temporary obesity is being institutionalized

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PLEASE don't believe that stereotype. That Black men appreciate healthy women more than White men. It simply isn't true. REAL MEN like healthy women. REAL MEN who don't have the sicko "18 year old"(yeah right!) fetish. I have no personal problem with Black men. I grew up in a southern ghetto and a lot of the best friends I've had in my life were Black guys, but Black guys have a bad habit of HATING stereotypes that make them seem bad & trying to USE other stereotypes that make them seem better than they are. Criminals, Cheaters, & NON-Pussy Eaters are COMPLETELY FALSE and BAD!, but Being Superb Athletes, Having MUCH BIGGER dicks(on average), & Being the only men who really appreciate healthy women are COMPLETELY TRUE and GREAT! Either all these stereotypes are TRUE or FALSE. You cant except some & deny others.

Just know Katja when a Black guy goes off in public about how great "your ass" is. Don't just assume they do it out of love of you Katja. It's socially "cool" for a Black man to do that. While a White man will tell you that your eyes are amazing or you have a beautiful smile in public, BUT in private when the door closes. A White man is going to show you what he thinks of your healthy body. WELL, atleast this White man would....

AC Cream

Edited by - AC Cream on 9/15/2004 12:05:44 PM

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If I'm a bigot, I guess that makes you ignorant.

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That was pretty remarkable.

You took a PERSONAL OBSERVATION AND OPINION , from Katja's unbiased and uncluttered Euorpean perspective, accused her of buying into some stereoptype, (as if she is incapable of believing what she sees, and believing her own experiences), and then used that as a springboard to launch into some rant about your own issues with black men.

Amazing.

KATJA -

I am a black American male. I love you from the top of your head to the bottom of your toes.

Please come over to my house tonight. I will send my wife away.

Love,

BSD

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SEE you obviously did not read what Katja posted. Katja's uncluttered European perspective as you call it was performing with Black male talent. That I was not trying to change. I have NO real issue with that. Love is Love. She then spoke of Black male "FANS" "seem" to worship her body more than white fans. That's where my comments come in.

You twisted my words. There is a shock! I think most people(including Katja) will understand what I was saying.

THE POINT of what I was saying to Katja was that White fan's worship of her body won't be as obvious. A white fan won't come up to Katja in public with people around and be like "Damn girl, your ass is HOT!". He would get punked by people. While a Black fan could do that and it would be excepted. The people around would say "that's a Black man thing".

AC Cream

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Nice try.

You must think that Katja , and everybody else in here is stupid. I think she knows what she likes. I think she knows what she sees. I think she knows her fans, black and white. I think she knows how her career has developed, and why she's blown up so much more here in America than in her native Germany, (A phenomenon she's discussed in this forum and in others before), I think she knows the lay of the porn land and the peculiarities of porn fans.

That tangent that you went off on seemed to have much less to do with Katja than it did with your own issues.

If you're a white guy, and you dig her cuz she's got a gorgeous phat ass, you're not gonna tell her that cuz you'll lose face with your boys?

Okay.

So rather than sort out your own insecurities, as evidenced by the above, you're gonna school Katja as to what's REALLY going on with white men and black men?

Okay.

Somehow, I don't think she needs the help.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 9/15/2004 1:43:02 PM

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