When I was first stripping back in 1994 and 95 and so, I would have lots of black guys be very appreciative of my body. There were almost no black guys who seemed anything but happy with my curves (and I'm not blessed with hips as curvy as Katja). With white guys, it seemed that there were some who liked thicker, curvier girls (and back in those days, I wasn't thick AT ALL - but curvy), but it seemed to be a lot smaller percentage.

Then JLo came along and it became "acceptable" and trendy for guys to like girls with big butts.

There are always exceptions to every stereotype. That's why I hate stereotypes.

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People just lay in wait for me to say something against the PC mindset and I get reamed. I'm just gonna stop trying to clear things up for BSD. He is clearly in hate mode. I just hope Katja will see my points from a un-hateful point of view. I made valid points and BSD makes it personal. I think people see that in my posts. I speak my mind without disrespecting people. I say unpopular things some times, but if everybody only said the popular opinions no good conversation would ever take place.

AC Cream

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AC Cream

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No, my friend, YOU made it personal.

You make it your business to ward Katja away from some "stereotype", by going into a rant about what "black men" and "white men" do. That's pretty ironic.

I would have merrily gone on my way and wouldn't have said a word, if you had told Katja : "I'm white and I loves me some beautiful Katja ass. A lot of my white buddies do too."

But no, you continued on with things like:

"Just know Katja when a Black guy goes off in public about how great "your ass" is. Don't just assume they do it out of love of you Katja. It's socially "cool" for a Black man to do that."

Huh?

Tricia -

When all those black guys were mackin' on your body, showing you love and testifyin' to your curviness back in '94 and '95, (me included), they were being disingenuous with you, and didn't really mean it. It was all a ploy to look "cool".

A noted cultural anthroplogist told me this. Well not me, but he explained it to Katja Kassin , lest she be fooled.

BSD

P.S. -

Olivia O'Lovely, Sara Jay, Mia Bangg, Missy , and all the rest, I've been exposed for the black fraud that I am. You can burn all my love letters and fan mail, they weren't real.

Edited by - BSD on 9/15/2004 2:40:25 PM

Edited by - BSD on 9/15/2004 2:49:17 PM

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You just take things to far. I didn't say that ALL black men that worship Katja & Tricia were lying. I just wanted to make the point to Katja(and Tricia too I guess) that White men just aren't as out there about worshiping healthy women. I know you would have preferred me to dumb down my point and say "me an my buddies like dat big ass!", but instead I prefer to speak to women like they have some sense and give them details behind my point.

Look at that we both LOVE Olivia O'Lovely. Odd how we can SO disagree on 1 subject, but be right on the same level on another. Crazy huh?

AC Cream

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You still don't get it, do ya?

In trying to negate some stereotype, you advance a bunch of stereotypes.

When you say "black men do this", and "white men don't do that", you ARE speaking stereotypically, you ARE saying ALL, (the "all" being implied}, and you ARE opening yourself up to the kind of criticism that you've gotten today.

Nobody's asking you to dumb down anything, but if you want to avoid having your statements provoke questions or comments that you are uncomfortable with, avoid speaking of whole groups of people in stereotypical fashion, and keep your comments personal and or specific.

Or you could say "Katja, black men are just trying to look "cool" when they sweat you. All except BSD. He REALLY DOES love you and your beautiful phat azz, and he'll NEVER be cool."

Smile.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 9/15/2004 3:06:00 PM

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I think we have got things straight.

You going to Vegas(AVN) in Jan. man?

If so, we will have to have a beer and go Big Ass hunting together.

I gotta meet "Double O" man,

AC Cream

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I guess the only thing I can contribute on this thread (because I DID want to contribute something) is to comment on what Katja and Tricia said because I was able to directly relate. Even though I'm not talent, and don't ever plan on being so (and not because I don't respect talent, but as I've said before it's mainly because I don't have the figurative balls to do so) I have to say that in my personal life I get LOTS of attention from hispanic and black men. I am a lot thicker and darker skinned than most Asian women, which I guess explains it.

Oddly enough, I've hardly EVER been hit on by an Asian man, or even by white men. Most Asians and white men that like Asian girls for some reason aren't attracted to me at all. One guy even told me once that I was "too ethnic". Someone else even said I was "too exotic." To this day I can't be sure if this means that Asian men and white men that don't like the way I look are racist.

Anyway, maybe this has nothing at all to do with this thread, and maybe it does. It's just my two cents and my way of contributing some levity to the thread.

DVSX. com - Free pics, free clips, NO pop ups, simply the BEST adult studio webs

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yeah it fits into this topic.

AC Cream

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Have Bryan cast you in the next volume of "Truly Nice Ass" , you guys' wonderful showcase for thicker girls. Or better yet, be over my house this weekend, cuz I think Katja's out of the country and won't be able to make it.

I'll give you the once over and explain to you all the things that are right with you.

Smile.

BSD

AC CREAM -

Nah, I don't think I'm gonna make it to Las Vegas. I'm not big on the autograph shows, and meet and greets. I don't really wanna meet my porn fantasies, I just want to enjoy their work. Besides, I can't afford to get too close to some of these girls of my dreams. I just don't have the bail money and legal defense funds to cover the potential consequences. Not to mention the medical costs after security types beat my face in.

INSURANCE CLAIMS REP: "What happened to you?"

BSD: "I tried to cop a feel on Kayla Marie at a porn industry grip and grin, and was beaten to within an inch of my life."

INSURANCE CLAIMS REP: "Denied."

BSD

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Edited by - dumblonde on 9/15/2004 9:02:20 PM

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Another note is that when I was younger, I had a lot of Asian fans at the strip clubs where I would work. A couple of them said that it was the long, straight medium-brown hair and my personality (I was very quiet back then). Hardly any said anything about my body... :) Oh, and they liked my glasses when I wore them.

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Edited by - Zoid on 9/15/2004 9:17:55 PM

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And then I must say I don't go with a guy just because he said some nice things to me. Ask everybody who knows me - they will tell you that I'm smarter than that. A compliment is just a compliment and so much different to what it feels like when somebody really cares for you.

This thread was about the professional decission of female performers not to work with black male talent. I just wanted to say that I always liked all of my co workers, I didn't make a difference if one was black, white or whatever. And then I added that sometimes black guys have the ability to make me feel very comfortable because they TOLD me how much they liked my body type. I didn't want to say that white guys don't like me the same but I don't hear from them so much.

The last thing I want to say is that it is simply not true that a black man is not able to really care about a girl (like only white guys could) because he has to be cool or something...

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Looks pretty straightforward to me.

Katja , you are just a beautiful, beautiful person.

Thank you for being you.

BSD

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As far as your experiences with White male talent I just can't speak about them. I don't have any clue why they wouldn't have told you the same things Black male talent did. I do have an opinion about why Black male talent were very vocal to you, but I will hold that opinion back because I feel I created enough discussion in this topic already .

I never said Black men were not capable of caring about a woman. I was only speaking about Fans meeting you in public. In America it's socially acceptable for black men to come up to woman and go off about their healthy bodies, but isn't as acceptable for white men to do the same. Though in private it doesn't matter what is socially acceptable.

Yes, I did take this conversation a little off topic, but as long as the general discussion is similar I don't think it's a problem.

Also Katja,

At the end of this paragraph you basically stated what the whole point of my original reply to you was about. Black men are going to be more outspoken about their thoughts of your body in public than white men will be. Though "I strongly believe" a lot of the guys who put on a big show in public aren't going to stay that excited in private. While some guys who don't go off in public might surprise you in private when a strong love for your body comes out .

If you felt I implied you go with a guy just from a compliment then I apologize. I didn't say or want you to think I was saying that. As far as you being smart. If you thought I was trying to say you weren't smart I apologize even more for that. Reading your past posts I know better than to think your not smart. I definitely felt you were(& still feel you are) an intelligent young woman. I just didn't want people trying to fool you with FALSE stereotypes. I believe I'm semi-intelligent, but if I went to another country and a certain group of people were extremely nice to me upfront I would probably believe what they wanted me to. That group of people could have a history of hating Americans and I would not know. I was just making sure something similar was going on in your case Katja. I'm just always looking out for ADT talent. Take it as a showing of respect & caring for you Katja, not a showing of disrespect or questioning your views.

I hope that maybe at Vegas(AVN) in Jan. we might have a drink(alcohol or not ) and discus this topic & others in more detail.

AC Cream

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Thank you for the offer. Seriously. I'm REALLY embarrassed now...so moving right along, actually, I have been asked by Bryan (and our other directors) to do scenes, but I had to respectfully decline. As I said, I just don't have the figurative balls to be naked on camera.

However, oddly enough (or not) my taste in female performers run definitely toward the "Katja" and the "current look of Tricia" (Hi Tricia!) type. I've never been attracted to very skinny women, or fake breasts. And to stay on thread topic, obviously my take on viewing porn will be way different than most of the posters, (Since I'm female and Asian) but whenever I watch porn for fun, it's always to drool over the women, be they whatever color they may be. I never watch porn for the male performers, so if the performer is black or white doesn't matter to me in the least.

DVSX. com - Free pics, free clips, NO pop ups, simply the BEST adult studio webs

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It got away because somebody said something dumb, and has subsequently spent a whole lot of time trying to say he didn't. I think most folks had "topiced out" on this one anyway.

By the way, I responded to your on-topic post about other minority males in porn. Don't know if you caught that before the topic left the tracks.

BSD

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You've all heard the phrase "Once you go black, you never go back!" this phrase sums up the insecure white man's fear of his precious fantasy girl getting dicked down by the supposedly superior black cock. I guess in their eyes it taints the girl, kinda like Jenna. If we saw her getting dicked down by Slayer it would ruin her image to her legions of redneck fans. I don't give a fuck if you feel it taints your women. Taint away. I hope every white girl who does interracial loses her core white audience, and has to only do interracial. If the racism of her own people ruins her career she has no one to blame but other racist white people!!! and if this forces white stars to do less scenes with black men, so be it! We need more quality black on black porn anyways!!

It must be nice to have the privledge of having white only porn stars?!?!?!?!

All my favorite black porn stars have had to do scenes with whites, so any little bitch-ass hangups I had have vanished.

I also hate it when black male porn stars are compared with fags, and bestiality and other fetish shit!!! Conversely just compare white pornstars with rapists and abusers, Can't tell you how many times I've seen a white pornstar spit in a girls mouth or step on her head while fucking her in the ass??? Not so much with the black porn stars!!!

And I won't even get into mister hardcore!! and He's one of U!!!

Just cause it's porn don't mean you can treat people however you want, porn is the last bastion of open racism in this country. I hope soon we elimate this haven for hate and force everyone to treat everyone as a person, not a fuckin fetish!!!

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Sounds like you've got some pent up frustrations in you.

You went a lot of places with your rant, some of which I agree with, but I got some questions about some other points you made.

It seems to me that you are mixing personal bigotry, (or personal preference, if some choose that term), on the part of individual fans and performers, with institutionalized racism on the part of the porn industry. I have heard people like Lex Steele, Sean Michaels, and years ago, Ron Hightower, talk about racism in the porn industry, and I trust that they know what they're talking about. But that was coming from a performer's perspective, who was inside and had an intimate knowledge of the industry. And those guys usually spoke of management, ownership, hiring practices for off camera personnel, consideration for lead roles in big budget productions, and other behind the scenes aspects of the industry, that we as consumers don't come in contact with.

You're gonna have to show me how racism on an institutional basis, affects our choices as consumers, and the end product that we see. Porn to me, seems very much an "ear to the ground" industry, where consumer tastes and desires generally drive the product. Like I mentioned before, if enough people want something, and are willing to pay for it, it'll eventually get made. And if it doesn't make money, it'll stop getting made.

I agree that in the porn industry, it is difficult for black male performers to break in and have long careers, and almost impossible for black females. You can count the number of superstar black male porn stars with careers over five years on two hands. And there probably aren't any black females in that category.

And there are NONE who can do it doing black only productions.

There is a big market for interracial porn, (black male\white female), and if the brothers want to stay in the business and make a reasonable living, they gotta do it. And that 's what they all do. We have the same 10-15 brothers in all the flicks. They are, or at least have been, dependable, proven commodities. Black on black themes may be the smallest niche in the porn market, and if a performer decides that's all they're going to do, I hope they've got day jobs, cuz they ain't gonna make it in porn.

Even black production companies like West Coast , Darkside , and Woodburn , or mixed production companies that do a good job with black themed lines, like Devil's Films and Evasive Angles , could not make it doing only black on black titles. They all have to diversify and offer titles across a broader spectrum, just so they can make black on black titles. The market is just not strong enough for that.

But is this racism? I don't think so.

Does the industry play on racial stereotypes to sell product? Yes they do. Do we as consumers, (black and white), buy into it? Yes we do.

But what individual performers will and won't do is a matter of personal taste, (or bigotry as the case may be), and short of contract situations, (where the star is usually big enough to call their own shots), the industry can't make people do what they don't want to do.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 9/17/2004 2:01:22 AM

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I may have been a little confusing in my wording. Theoretically, in a contract situation a company COULD tell a star, "Fuck this guy or else", but it rarely if ever works that way.

I didn't mean the contract star going up against a set policy of a company and doing what they wanted, I was looking at it more from the other direction.

When a big company signs a star to a lucrative contract, and we're talking the most popular white female stars, it's generally after she has already established a significant fan base and shown demonstrated appeal. That's why they're signing her. So she has, to a degree, some leverage both before and after she signs a contract. They want her, she's a proven money maker, so they're not going to pressure her to do things she doesn't want to do. Even though a company has a contract on her, if some huge star takes the position that I'm only gonna do girl\girl, or I'm not gonna do this flavor of guy, or whatever, the company in all likelihood is not gonna make an issue of it unless she is being totally unreasonable. They will adjust their approach, to maximize her talents and suit her needs, so as to get the most value for their investment.

If all the rage in porn is currently five man black cum slams, Vivid or Wicked or whomever is NOT going to try and force Jenna Jameson to do that, to try and get in on some of that action, even if there's gazillions of dollars to be made. She's made her mark and doesn't have to do that.

Girls in gonzo and non-contract girls don't have that same luxury and status. You can't make them do what they don't want, but if they don't there's usually lots of other girls who will. That's where the pressure comes in.

That's what I meant.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 9/16/2004 11:57:28 PM

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Katja

"all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"

Edited by - katjakassin on 9/17/2004 8:00:27 AM

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I know the thread got long and winding, and some of the posts were pretty wordy, but you missed what was going on when you pulled part of one sentence out of context.

I said, no less than three different times in this thread that I DID NOT believe there was institutionalized racism in the porn industry.

I believe what you read was when I was responding to BOss_Hog who said there was rampant racism in porn. I told him that I thought he was mixing personal bigotry on the part of individual performers, with institutionalized racism in porn. And I went on to ask him to show me or give me evidence of institutionalized racism in porn.

My point being that I don't think porn as an industry is racist from a customer perspective. I'm sure that there are bigots in porn just as there are in all walks of life, but I don't believe they are setting the agenda for the industry.

Does that make sense?

BSD

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Another point: the IR genre has grown by leaps and bounds in the past few years. There are enough IR videos coming out to keep me happy. The way some people bitch and moan you would think we're still in the 80s when you would have to go through an entire rack of films at your local smut peddler just to find a video that had a Ray Victory or F.M. Bradley scene.

I hope that I haven't insulted anyone that has a particularly passionate opinion on this subject. I just think that there are more important things to rant about.

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One of you posters said something that I really liked. You said that you don't care to know too much about your favorite porn stars because it ruins the fantasy. I agree totally. I once read an interview with Jenna Haze (before she was a contract girl) and she said that she wouldn't do interracial. And as a black man, I have to admit that I was dissappointed. Not because I wanted to see her do IR. It hadn't even occured to me. But to read her saying that she WON'T do it...I was like "Damn, why'd you have to go and say that?"

One last thing... The other day I was in the porn section at my favorite video store in the Valley. And this middle aged white guy was next to me looking at videos. I couldn't help but notice that he kept picking up the "Gangland" videos and any other flicks where the theme was about white chicks getting fucked by lots of black guys. So clearly it isn't just black guys who are into these IR movies. It obviously fulfilled a fantasy for him too.

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Now as to the topic...

What does it matter. To me a hot scene is a hot scene not matter the color of the performers skin.

However, saying you don't want to have sex with someone for whatever reason doesn't make you a racist. There are tons of black women who won't date white men but no one accuses them of being "racists".

Doing porn doesn't mean you can no longer choose who you have sex with.

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Not that I know of.

And not any that wanted to keep eating primarily from their porn earnings.

BSD

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Dark

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Edited by - Brice P on 9/22/2004 4:10:46 PM

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Personally, I don't care. I'm not a fan of taylor, and I don't dislike her either. I don't know her or Marcus, do you?

What I do know is marcus had pictures of himself with Janine, and people said that was a lie, He tappe Julia Ann, and word on the street is that Taylor slobbed him down. Don't know if it's true, and couldn't give a squirt, but I do share info, and the use of the word "Reported" was in good taste.

Call me a liar, call Marcus a liar, have a parade for Taylor, but when I stamp it, you can believe it like it came from your daddy. And if your daddy ain't a stand up man, I'd be careful about kissing your momma at Christmas!

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I post at the IR Board you speak of, and I have to say that not everyone there shares your opinion. Just like myself, a few people take exception with how these girls handle the subject, not thier stand. I still say that's the biggest issue.

Oprah say something about Beef, and the state of Texas sues her. Come on, she's a big girl. I bet she has had her share of Brontosaurus Burgers. It's not what she said, it's how people percieved it.

People should live and let live, but if the basis of someones life is deception or lies, they won't die a respectful person in my book.

Ariana Jolie, Jewel De'Nyle, Krystal Summers and other women who crossed over with pleasure get respect in my book. Not because they did the work, but because they embrassed it.

TJ Hart, who I think is beautiful did it like she ws forced to eat Brussell Sprouts, and a couple other women have done the same. The issue is it does not represent the quality of IR work, and it leave a bad taste in the mouth of both sides of the fence.

I don't want to see Jill Kelly with a Tupac Biggie Shirt, and I don't want to See Jenna with Dennis Rodman on E. For that matter I'd hate to see a vegetarian doing commercials for Tony Romas! If you don't like something, be respectable enough to state your stand, and here is thr real deal "Stand By It". You can always change your mind, but if it happens at the twilight of your career, or after you can't lose weight, or your fans just desert you, it's not flattering to either party.

Was that bitchy enough for you, or do you understand that one of the choice people make should be honesty and integrity.

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