It's frustrating that many here choose to support a profession that they find so dispicable, even going to the lengths of communicating on a message board with those of whom they hold in very low regards. What "legitimate" future is there for an industry with customers who view it on the same level as those who fight to stop it? Those opinions further the sterotypes not only of the porn workers, but of the porn customer as a pervert slipping into a seedy little shop wearing sunglasses, fake facial hair, and an overcoat.
No one, when asked if they'd like to see a family member in the adult industry, is going to jump up and say "Hell Yeah!" Well, I'm from Mississippi, and there are some exceptions there.;) But no one wants their family member slaving at a burger joint for minimum wage while an androgenous clown and Mayor McCheese roll in the profits either. But do you cast a sister to the side because, dammit, she was too smart to take a $5/hr job punching keys with pictures of french fires on a cash register? How does that improve her resume'?
If the driving fear is that these women are being exploited for peanuts, the choice is there...don't buy the DVDs and stick with Victoria's Secret catalogs and an active imagination. Exploitation happens in every walk of life, and some are "smart" enough to use it to their advantage. Holding their profession hostage in the red light district of your local berg isn't going to further anyone's cause except those who believe their own moral superiority should define you and I.
All that the adult industry needs is for a fraction of those who slink into the local whack shop monthly to drop the shame. Legitimacy is based on the bravery of the consumer. We allow people to tell us that this thriving business is wrong because we not only don't fight them, many of us agree with them. If you don't believe me, go to a party and shout out "Peter North!" The awkward silence will show you that ever person in that room knows who he is, and almost none will admit it. Meanwhile, everyone at that party will bet substantial sums of money on a sport played by unpaid college students and have a great time doing it.
Eh, sorry for rambling. I used to hate myself. I took it further than most. I hid my problems from my parents out of uneducated fear, and instead of speaking to them, I acted on that hatred. Thankfully, I didn't accomplish what I set out to do. And from that I found something that changed my life...something that I had refused to see. My parents accepted me. In spite of bad decisions and stupid actions, they did the only thing that parents should do. They chose to love me. Simple, isn't it?
This has to be one of the most interesting topics we have seen in a while. Fans bashing the talent, talent having to defend themselves, the site's administrators getting involved. Do we have right-wingers out there?
Being fans and in the industry with two daughters, we certainly have our perspectives. Are their situations where girls come into the industry becasue they are lost, have habits to support, etc., certainly. There are also a number of girls who take some time off to make some money. We just reviewed a movie for adultdvdempire.com, Taped College Confessions #10, by Digital Playground. One of the girls, Tanya Danielle, explained how she was studying at UCLA and took a quarter off to dance. That turned into another quarter, to film and the rest as they say is history.
Today, more and more girls are smarter than ever. Films, dancing, web-sites, given how messed up our economy is when an un-educated basketball player can make millions, yet a fresh out of college teacher can hardly fine a job, no less on that pays more that $22,000/year. These women are smart businesspeople. Capitalists who know what consumers want and how to deliever.
Is it better to be a top US offical who has lied and cheated or a porn-star? Unfortunatly, if you are one of the chosen ones, your slate gets to be whiped clean. Is it so bad to be known as a porn star? Maybe twenty-years ago. Folks this is a $13 Billion dollar business. Jill Kelly Productions and Private are listed companies that can be traded. Major corporations, Comcast, Time-Warner, Hyatt, Marriott are making millions of dollars off viewers. While adult sides make up about 7% of all sites on the internet, they take up 1/3 of the total traffic and somewhere like 40% of the financial transactions. The industry has been discussed on PBS, 20/20 and Entertainment Tonight/Access Hollywood. Having been in Vegas for CES/AEE, thousands of people, male and female, lined up to see the stars walk down the red carpet to the awards. Just like the Oscars.
Jenna Jameson...A GENIUS!!! A multi-millionaire, she has crossed over to mainstream. Thanks to the E! network, the Howard Stern Show and The Mans Show, the public has been introduced to Jenna, Tabitha Stevens, Karina, Savannah Samson, etc. This industry is getting bigger and bigger. Hell, why are we all here?
Getting back to the parents thing...who knows? Everytime we are at the shows, we see Keri Windsor with her mom. With the industry becoming more and more mainstream and above the board, the hope is that respect, benefits, residuals, etc. will flow towards the stars, both male and female. Will our children be safe, should be the more important question. God help those parents who see their daughters on a Girls Gone Wild advertisment. Safe and honest should be the montra children agree to and parents accept. Choices are up to the kids at 18+. Do we want our children to take a career we are not in favor of, study an area that we think makes no sense, move to a foreign land...maybe, maybe not, but as any parent we need to accpet that we have done the best that we could of as parents, trust our childrens decisions and be there to support them and love them regardless of what road they choose.
Ms Christine & JC, the first couple of adult review.
Personally, I think all of you are missing the most important point of this topic. Porn is not reality! It's make-believe, an escape. Most people can't and/or won't do the things seen in porn films, but wish they could. So what's the point? Just that you can't very well escape into a fantasy when you're staring at the face and nether regions of someone you know and love in real life. That's why I wouldn't want to pop a porn film in the DVD player and see a family member, friend, neighbor, coworker, cashier at the grocery, or anyone else I know. It's as simple as that.
But Jesus man! I really want to fuck that hot little cashier! Hmmm, and you know, she looks a LOT like Selena Silver (she REALLY does). So, we all like different things.
I second that - and that's why there's 'Amateur' porn - the whole girl-next-door thing.
I have a whole list of girls in my working environment, at the gym, etc, that I would LOVE to see in a porn movie (and I might one day - see my references earlier in this thread, to the Dutch politician and the Turkish/German actress (who was working the local goverment office in Heilbronn before her mainstream discovery).
For me, to see the girl who processed my application for a parking permit in a porn movie (pity I don't live in Heilbronn) would be a major turn-on.
Well I don't have much to add to this thread that hasn't already been said. I think it is really important to support a loved one no matter what they decide to do, after all it's their life. My mother is more appalled that I ride my motorcycle without a helmet than she is with my involvement with porn. I don't have any daughters or sisters but if I did I would rather them be a pornstar than working a dead end job if that is what they chose to do. Now there is a small possibility that many women are "jealous" of porn stars.
Why? For having the self confidence and bodies to perform well on camera. Their husbands and boyfriends fantasize about Porn Stars(and strippers).
The way I see things people become porn actresses for only a few reasons. Either for the money or the fun, sometimes both. What's wrong with that?
Support does not require approval. I would try to discourage a sister or daughter from doing porn, but no way would I not support them in any case. My door is open for a hug or a talk no matter what. They shouldn't expect me to approve of their every decision, but they can assume and expect whatever support they need.
The reason I would discourage porn is not so much the Evils of Pornsters but rather the Evils of Prudes. If she can be happy as an engineer (in this case) she'll have no trouble with either crowd down the road. But if she pursues Porn she'd have trouble from the Prudes for the rest of her life if she decided to go back to engineering, etc.
Being able to say "Don't do that" and "I love you" at the same time is a really important thing for a parent to learn, and I would say it in this case due to the future problems doing porn would cause with the Prudes if she later decided to not do porn after giving it a shot.
A number of porn performers have said their parents know. I suspect that many if not most of those parents don't "approve" in the sense that they wish their daughter had done something else (and did / would have said so) but that they still support their daughter in anyway.
Pornstars, parents, prudes... dignity, derision, debate... questions about the demarcation between fantasy and reality... disputed concepts of intelligence... rival understandings of what is meant by the term, 'career'... an unpicking of different sorts of porn, with value judgements about different porn genres... users who are ill at ease with porn and others who champion it as fans... forum protocol and politics... dissent and affirmation... this one has it all!
All I have to say is that when I'm dealing with a rude 60 year old woman griping that the price of the Fruit Loops she's buying rang up on the register for 20 cents more than she saw on the shelf a career in porn sounds really good.
Tammi, I think that particular woman shops in my local grocery store too: I'm usually queueing behind her! (I meant that not all sentiments expressed in this thread have been positive, but that overall the debate has been impassioned and interesting to read.)
There was a time when having a tattoo was regarded as far more outlaw than appearing in a nudie magazine or skinflick. Presumably this was because nudie pics couldn't be cataloged for enternity on the internet and a tattoo was forever.
I made myself a promise a long time ago, that I would never again support prejudice with my silence. So, I must make sure that I support pornstars and I don't believe all of them (or most of them) are stupid.
Would I want my daughter or sister doing porn? I wouldn't mind a bit. I want them to be happy. I want them to enjoy their lives. If they do it, fine; if they don't, let me try to help.
Seriously, I would hate to be the brother of some of the pornstars I've seen. But I would be proud to be the brother of other pornstars, some of them we all meet constantly on these boards. They all have their problems, just like we all have our problems. They're normal people, and they seem to be good people. I can't be their brother, but they are people I could be friends of. The same is truth for music, mainstream films or TV.
But, seriously, how many of our parents, if asked, would say, years ago, that they would support our decision of becoming porn fans? "Oh, yes, my little son, sure, I want him to masturbate watching porn as often as possible!" And, yet, we all are porn fans here. And many of us are happy, and pretty "normal". Those of us who are not happy have other reasons but porn to blame.
Of course, many fans, even being adult, still hide their porn habits. I don't. If asked, I always tell the truth. I like porn.
Why do people do shit like that? That pisses me off to no end. That just shows me the dualistic attitude men have toward porn sluts. On one hand they are jerking off to them, but after they jerk off, they feel the need to have moral condescending attitude and contempt for them. Some have so much contempt that they would intentionally expose them to their parents in order to create turmoil. I know I am not doing a perfect job articulating my point. But that just fucking revs me up. I would love to take those dicks who have nothing better to do than destroy family relations of human beings and beat the living shit out of them. I am sure the guy, who is fucking these porn sluts is not getting exposed by these assholes.
Wyler, that sums up the point in most of my topics. However, I am not a bold to say I am a porn lover around everyone. I do support your attitude. Some here may say too much but oh well.
Even as a guy I am not doing porn with my real face. Great respect for those who have the balls to do it. So I would have to get a role in a Micheal Ninn film or something.
Thanks babe for doing something that I would have done. Apparently, porn boy has not observed smart porn dudes and chicks that are all over this board. Thank you for calling him out, I tend to get over emotional and waste the board with angry rants.
Buddy, you haven't seen jack yet. Go to these pornstore,talk to some of the guys there. They have dualist attitudes up the ass. You hear the same bullshit stereotypes from those clowns far more than you hear here.
As I've read through all these blazing posts, one thought kept returning: Even a perfunctory perusal of the messages written by the performers, directors, etc. and those defending them shows a higher level of intellect,a more exacting debate, and a greater value of humanity than I find on any regular work-day in my own profession!
Huggins293 wrote:Yep! Thats me! I like his forum, very civil and interesting (like this one)...gave up on RAME - too many hostile posts.
"Corruptio optimi pessima..."
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Rubberbuffer Deactivated User
sunny ca 60 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 11 2004 : 8:15PM
These women are whores, by definition.
You can also call the actresses or performers or whatever else , but you cannot exclude the fact that they are whores.
Regarding a family member or loved one getting into this business... let's just say I wouldn't stop loving them or caring for them ... but whore would not be in the top 25 list of occupations I would wish for them to have.
Porn is not really performance. That is why it requires very little talent other than a willingness and ability to have sex on screen. Of course, there are people better at sexual expression and pleasure than others, but ultimately the sex is the focus. That is why they continue to go through girls like a kid with a bag of M&M's. There is a constant need for new girls to fill the voracious appetite of the porn consumer. I would even go so far as to say that a good percentage of porn consumers are addicted to pornography.
With that that in mind, If the porn industry performers are fucked up, what does that say about the porn consumer? A porn consumer is just as on the fringe as a porn performer. There is just as much of a stigma for watching porn as there is performing. You are usually just as morally loose as all these porn performers if you are watching porn.
I couldn't talk about my obsession (addiction is more like it) with porn or my favorite porn stars with my family. They would look at me crazy and think I'm scum. I certainly can't look at porn on my computer at work, I'd be fired. Yet It's ok for people to smoke at work, and drinking is a tride and true pasttime.
For all people involved in porn whether on screen or just as a customer, there is a stigma. I wouldn't wish that sort of stigma on a member of my family. But I could tolerate them performing in porn films as long as they truly enjoyed what they were doing and were comfortable with it. I certainly wouldn't watch a family member having sex on screen, but I wouldn't give them a hard time either.
Now if they somehow fell into porn as the only way to make money or were forced into porn because of an addiction, I would certainly be unhappy. That would be my own fault for not taking proper care of my children or being willing to help a family member that was having trouble. I wouldn't have anyone to blame but the man in the mirror.
I certainly don't think poorly of women just for doing porn. I like sexual women. Alot of the women doing porn are sexual and not afraid to show it. I'm happy that such sexual, exhibitionistic women exist because I don't watch porn for entertainment. I watch porn to get off. Alot of women in regular, mainstream society that you meet everyday don't know how to get a man off very well at all. It's no wonder their husbands or boyfriends get bored fucking them, when all they think they have to do is let the man fuck them and its all good. That gets real boring. Women who love to try different types of sex and to please a man are the best. That is the kind of fantasy fulfillment I receive watching porn.
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Ivor Biggun Deactivated User
99 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 4 2004 : 8:44PM
Excuse me coming late to this discussion with a long, rambling philosophical reply. I think the "dualist" attitudes that have been mentioned are a reflection of how some people separate what for them is just fantasy from their real-life standards of behavior. I also think it's quite possible to disapprove of a loved one entering porn without being a prude, bigot or hypocrite. (I hope I don't come across as any of these.)
I'd say I have the same animal instincts that most men have. In my fantasies I would love to be a porn star - what guy wouldn't love the chance fuck hundreds of hot young girls? But in reality I couldn't do it because I can't effectively disentangle the physical act of sex with the expression of romantic love that it has traditionally been reserved for. I don't want to either - i feel it has greater value to me that way. I don't feel that casual sex and "romantic sex" can coexist, because the essence of "romantic sex" is that it is something special, that you only share with that special person.
That's also why I don't think I could ever be with a girl who had done porn. Not because I would think anything bad of her for the choices she made, simply because I could never get over the thought, whenever we had sex, that I was going where a thousand men had been before, that this meant nothing special to her in the way it did to me.
I'm grateful for the work porn stars do. Porn actually helps me to maintain the lifestyle I want, by giving me an outlet for that animal inside. When I get a hard-on and there's no-one special to share it with, I can jerk off to a porno rather that go out looking for casual sex. But I can't help my gut feeling that the performers lose something by doing it. Of course, I have a slanted perspective, because I know I would lose something by doing it - maybe they never had that something to begin with. Perhaps people are predisposed to monogamy or polyamory in the same way as being straight, bi or gay - like our brains are just wired differently.
I don't feel that anyone entering the world of porn need apologize to anyone for what they do, but they need to be damn sure that they are doing it for the right reasons. Just money alone is not a good enough reason to wave goodbye - permanently - to any prospect of the sort of romantic relationship I have been talking about. I'm not saying porn performers can never find love - there seem to be enough happy couples in porn to prove that it can work for some, but it must be on very different terms. If I had an 18 year old daughter, I'd probably feel that she was too young to realize the full implications of that choice. I would never disown her, but I'm sure I'd do my best to dissuade her.
Maybe I'm just an anachronism, a 27-year-old relic of a bygone age. I'd be interested to know what other people think.
Parents sometimes don't want their daughters doing what they did. My first girlfriend's father was a famous cardiologist. He started screwing her at the age of 10. She looked like her mother's twin is the only justification he gave. It got tragic from there, worse than "working" in this industry. I can hear him now humming the Zappa tune "Brown Shoes Don't Make it Lyrics":
If she were my daughter, I'd... What would you do, Frankie? If she were my daughter, I'd ... What would you do, Frankie?
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrup And strap her on again, oh baby Smother that girl in chocolate syrup And strap her on again, oh baby She's my teen-age baby She turns me on I'd like to make her do a nasty On the White House lawn Smother my daughter in chocolate syrup And boogie 'till the cows come home....RIP
Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary? 972 Posts 3/04
Posted - Jul 13 2004 : 4:24AM
Wow it's been a while since I took a look at this thread. Sounds like many of you have some strong views..I had a discussion with someone on MSN instant messenger about porn actors/actresses and we came to the same conclusion that people in this business are paid to have sex which basically makes them prostitutes however in a professional fashion if that makes any sense? From a lot of the people who post here and are in the business it seems that they like their jobs and that's really great. I guess it all comes down to what your comfortable with and what you enjoy whether it be in porn or taking food orders.
