And what is it? his dick? It looks like a Chinese to me , you really can see if an Asian is From Asia or if he is an Asian-American and only half brain is needed in order to do so?
I'm amazed , really , I mean it.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 8:31PM
When did this start? Why isn't the industry more brand oriented. That is, why don't distributors call and ask the latest Katsumi dvd or the latest Hillary Scott tittle. I have always followed a specific star or director - kaylani. Sunny Lane, Nina Hartley, Barbara Dare etc. or the latest Randy West title or a Jules Jordan or one of your movies. I guess that this is a little off topic - but your comments got me thinking about it.
Personally, I absolutely refuse to buy, rent, or otherwise view anything that flat out demeans the individuals performing. An argument can be made that there is already something "dehumanizing" about performing sex acts in front of a camera as an adult entertainer without the male performer being reduced to nothing more than an oversized cock behind such blatant overblown stereotypes.
Sure the trailer for "Daddy's Worst Nightmare" or "My Hot Wife is Fucking Blackzilla" might look hot, but the mere fact that they are reduced to preying on the base fear of interracial relations turns me off from the start.
I AM a fan of IR when it's not necessarily labeled as "Interracial" like the work of Lex Steele in HEAVY METAL or Jack Napier in CHASING THE BIG ONE. Sure the performers were mixed but the racial profile of the actors is purposely downplayed to the benefit of some truly enjoyable sex.
What I don't like is when Jake Steed and his buddies ham it up for the camera by grunting and snarling in goofy close-ups or stupid stuff like Wesley Snipes' incessant "gangta chatter" that is WAAAY overplayed. Also on my NO LIST are the films were a van full of sex-crazed Black guys snatch an innocent White girl off the street for a little gangbang play. This, in my mind, steps waaaay over the line as far as fantasy is concerned.
That being said, there must be a market out there for "Monster Black Dicks in Tiny White Slits" et al., because these titles continue to fly off the shelves, and studios keep cranking them out. I for one won't buy into the madness.
BTW--With so many words in the damned title, how do they get the full name on the box cover????
Edited by - Howie Feldersnatch on 4/15/2007 11:33:35 AM
First they'll ask what type of movie it is Interracial, Lesbian, Anal, etc... Then they ask who the cast is. And you have to remember there is a flood of talent these days not like it use to be to where a distributor can call up and ask for a specific girl anymore as there is just to many of them and they cannot remember who's who like they use to when there were only a handful of us girls working. So now it's down to what type of movie and if anyone with any sort of recognition is in the movie. Mostly any AVN award winners aside from that they don't know the girls.
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Kimball Deactivated User
65 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 3:20PM
Okay, clowns! I will go slowly for you. Yes there is a big difference between someone who is Asian and someone who is American of Asian Descent. Asians are someone who are actually from Asia, but then they are broken down into what country they are from. Thai, Chinese, Japanese etc. And it is actually very easy to distinguish what country they are from. Americans of Asian descent are people who where born in this country and have some asian lineage. Everything about them is different compared to someone who is actually from Asian. The guy in question, Hung Lo, is American of Asian Lineage and there is some (better choice of word)caucasion blood in him. Thus a larger cock than you would ever see in a Japanese porn film. For you guys who are a little slow on the uptake, a Japanese porn film would be one that (and I'm going slowly here) is one that is produced in Japan and has a actual Japanese cast. Start checking out the cocks in one of those and then get back to me on how big the cocks are.
Yeah they should be truthful and stop labeling it "interracial". If it were marketed instead as "BJ", "Anal", "Big Cock", "Big Tit", or whatever else fits, it might sell as well or better. I've never bought anything marketed as "Interracial".
Edited by - Thomas D C on 4/15/2007 5:02:55 PM
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 7:03PM
Excuse me but it is you who is are a bit behind the curve. An overwhelming number of genetic scientist state that there is so little difference between humans that race as means of defining differences between us all is useless.How are they different? Is it the size of their cocks? So the size of someone's cock is somehow determined by something in their blood? Let me see, if an Asian man was given a transfusion of blood drawn from a black man, would his cock increase in size? Let me suggest that it is you who is a bit slow here. Why not take a look at the following link and maybe a little google and get back to us.
I'd like to know given the fact that races doesn't exist in Science how that scientist can describe the belonging of a person to a particular culture avoiding any ethnic refence and yet being so precise to allow me to figure out who she's talking about
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/15/2007 7:22:06 PM
You may not buy anything that says interracial but unfortunately it has to be sold that way as it's very important to the buyers of the product who distribute it. As Europe/Asia aren't big on interracial porn and won't buy it often but it flies off the shelf in the states so it does matter to the buyer and if you aren't behind the scenes it's hard for you to understand. That's why you see MILF, Cream Pie, Anal, Asian, Latin etc.... All separated so the distributor knows what kind of movies sell the best in different parts of the world it's a business and has to be broken down to appease everyone.
I understand that some consumers do buy movies labeled "Interracial". I'm wondering if those same movies, with the same photos on the front cover, might sell even better if they were marketed instead as "Big Cock" or "MILF" for example? Unless your distributor has ever tried this, how would he know?
I want to see Vanessa Blue's big tits; but no distributor will reach me if he puts her movies in the "Interracial" section at my porn store, because I'm shopping over in the "Big Tits" section.
Laurie Cameron Fan, in case this helps any, I consider the following to be examples of sensible notions (you can detect them with your five senses):
- Height - Dick-Size - Eye-Shape - Skin-Color. We can see that people do come in different colors, but the colors cover a spectrum from dark to light. The colors don't fall neatly into two categories ('black' and 'white'), because there's no clear dividing-line between 'black' and 'white'. The colors don't either fall neatly into four categories('black', 'white', 'asian', 'latin'), because again there are no clear dividing-lines between those groups.
However, people are often asked to label themselves with one of those terms ('black', 'white', 'asian', 'latin') or another. We're asked to do this when we sign up for myspace, or fill out a government-census questionairre. The Bible also claims that people fall neatly into one distinct group or another. Something as innocent as myspace subconciously convinces us that humans are divided naturally into distinct categories, so it's hard for us to overcome this misconception.
You might be interested in this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race
It discusses various views of race throughout history.
Any sharp division between cultures is all in your mind, with all due respect.
I definitely agree, Porno is a masturbatory aid not unlike lotion or tissue papers. We all have different preferences and the industry tries to create products that meet the viewers needs. I don't think there is any need to draws conclusions about American society based on statistics concerning Jerk-off material. DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS!!!
I have two problems with this article. First, he ignores the fact that Black actor roles in the Biz are limited by the females who "don't do Black" and the companies that won't shoot interracial. He lets those folks totally off the hook.
Second he then seems to berate the Black interracial fans for the content in interracial porn. Considering that most of the degrading stuff is made for the white male audience, this seems silly and rather spiteful.
Just like anything else there is good IR and crappy IR. I like Euro IR because it's sexier, the chicks are cuter, and there's less degrading stuff in it.
Well said,I totally agree with you on that one. One must also recognise that the Majority of people who buy IR titles are actually non-black. IR porn is very popular in my neck of the woods,even though vitually all the buyers are non-black. The thread starter needs to do more research before he rants like that.
After reading this thread I can only say that the only stupid thing about this whole thing is the ratio black males vs white males. I mean I think we're talking around 10% vs 90% here. Why doesn't this McGowan guy talk about that because I consider that the real racism like black males getting hired less than white males.
Almost all my movies have black guys in them and aren't labeled interracial. The only time a movie gets labeled interracial is when every scene is interracial and that's important for the buyers to know so they can market it. It has nothing to do with race etc... it all has to do with where the buyer is going to sell it and to what part of the world. For instance Cream pies fly off the shelf in europe but interracial porn doesn't. Here Interracial porn flies off the shelf more then an all anal movie. It's all about marketing and I think most of you are reading to much into this. It's a business and it's how we make or living time is money product is money we have to label movies to seperate them for the buyer as some buyers won't buy movies with ATMs, Choking, Cream Pies and others that's all they want. Diffent stores around the world sell diffent sorts of product and they must know what they are getting.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 12:20PM
Isn't the porn business kind of eating it's young here? If the most important issues, as far as the distributors are concerned, is what kind of movie it is (IR,anal etc.) where does that put the concept of "pornstar" or even who is directing the movie.
Was RLD correct to drop higher priced talented directors? Why spend the money on "names" when all that is important is whether it is IR, anal etc.
Also your comments about IR not being particularly popular in Europe, I think only shows how screwed up we Americans are when it comes to race.
BTW - I do enjoy your work, I just think that it is devalued by segmenting the market in this fashion.
So how many of the 90% are Asian or Latin and why are they not in porn.
The only thing I can come up with is the fact that most company owners are white so they only want to see their own kind or they're afraid to piss off the South.
Directors overlooking that option are missing out.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 10:44PM
How do you know that "black males" are getting hired less? I would think that if what you refer to as IR is so popular so called "black males" should be getting lots of work.
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but you did bring up the issue...
Vivid Digital Playground Wicked
Three companies that are notorious for their refusal to hire Blacks on a regular basis.
At the end of the day, Jewel is right. This is about money. Hollywood has no problem whoring out Thandie Newton or Halle Berry to every white Tom Dick and Harry in Tinseltown. But you're not going to see a studio film with Will Smith opposite Scarlett Johansen. Never going to happen. Why? Because Hollywood studios are about making money, and are quite risk averse. The 18-45 white males can all see themselves banging some hot Mocha colored chick. But a great many of them shrivel at the idea of their favorite blond spank fantasy being hammered by some Brotha.
Which brings up another issue. Why the lack of dark skinned Black women in Hollywood. Simply stated, they are perceived by the Hollywood money men to not be attractive to white men, and thus not viable for the mainstream market.
Back to porn, it's the same thing. Because porn does not need to be politically correct, these decisions can be made above the table and discussed openly by the people involved. That is the ONLY difference between Hollywood's race issues, and and the porn biz's race issues.
Edited by - Shotgun Styles on 4/17/2007 6:11:25 AM
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 17 2007 : 9:06AM
That Hollywood or American society in general is racist or promotes racist stereotypes is without question. The point of the article, that was the seed of this thread, is that such stereotyping is stupid and demeaning to "black" men.
I would point out that Hollywood, to my knowledge, does not use the term "IR" as a marketing tool or a genre, but it sure does use sex in that manner. Halle Berry is hot!
That's pretty simple, I buy around 20 to 25 new DVD's each month and everytime I go through the new releases I notice the ratio difference. Like plenty white on white action yet less black on white action and if you have some black on white action you get stuck with either Pumper or Marcus :-(
I've always used black males and white males in almost all my movies but when I shoot a specific type of a movie it has to be labeled as so for business purposes. To answer your question it does matter who directs it as I can tell you I put out more pieces because my name is attached to it then if it were just generic. And you have to let the distributor know what the movie is so they know how to market it doesn't mean they buy less, it's for the purpose of them knowing where to sell it to and which market to push it on. And ask yourself this are you being a hater towards women by buying something that's marketed slut, whore, bitch etc... Not it's just business like anything else.
I LOVE what Sineplex, DDF.com, 21st Sextury; HandsonHardcore etc have been doing. Their interracial stuff is relatively tasteful and is rarely broadcast. You'll see pretty elaborate sets and the participants starting off elegantly holding stemware while kissing oh so passionately. To to top it off, it is ALWAYS hardcore. Shoots me right back to the days of Rome.
Most of the most beautiful women from the planet of E. Europe taking to black male performers like a ladybug to spring while a certain level of social-antipathy makes it the opposite among American porn chicks is really the most glaring discrepancy between them. I find the prettier the E. European performer, the more likely she is to work with black guys, if they're available. In the U.S., however, it seems the prettier the white girl, the MORE pressure to do or don't and the more likely she is to make that compromise that suppresses the dreaded threat of social ostracism. In the real world, a pretty white girl in any metropolitan area will tell you black guys more likely have the nuts to engage them.
The layers of justification U.S. performers have to offer is pretty comical. From very early times even well into WWII European girls use to go bat-shit crazy over black guys. Black men reek of testosterone. In the old days European women saw themselves as entitled to their sexual attention and likewise. In the Rhineland during war time they literally had to protect black battalions and their barracks FROM roving white girls. There's a long and well established sexual history between the "species" of white girls and black boys, so to speak, so I find this newfound "right" on the part of today's American white girl hard to swallow.
The fear of being socially ostracized or even outright assaulted violently is the reason for this discrepancy, a testament to how pathological American culture really is. A lot of them try or preferably don't try hard at all (Like Euro-Girls) but for the most part our white girls are damaged goods. That is all.
I think he was pretty succinct. Granted, he's got alot going on in terms of generalizations. But his point about white women in the American biz being brainwashed against IR is valid.
And you know that, because we've been over this before.
I mean, girls just wanna have fun, so I don't blame them per se, but I do take issue with their rationalizations. We're seeing good natured white chicks getting into this business effectively forced to declare black guys unattractive and/or unsuitable to have sex with when the opportunity arises. The reluctance has nothing to do with biology or sexual selection but rather pure cowardice. Lets call it what it is and cut the bullshit.
I don't understand whose job it is to decide on the names of the various categories (e.g., "IR", "MILF", etc). If the choice of "IR" as a category was a bad business decision in the first place, I wouldn't expect every distributor to realize that; but the distributors who innovate will win.
It's obviously not a bad business move since it sells like hot cakes. Just like MILF is all the rage right now and it's flying off the shelves as well. It's all in marketing and behind the scenes they know what they are doing.
Marketers are faced with the prospect of competing marketers turning more profit on the same videos simply by re-categorizing them.
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DirtyDoug Deactivated User
143 Posts 3/07
Posted - Apr 18 2007 : 8:42PM
Huh! You don't mean to say that extremely turgid penises aren't confined to those who are black? A white man (in porn) can have a girthy or long cock? Blasphemy you speak!Seriously? Where are the stats to back this claim? I'm curious.I vote for affirmative action in porn. Where's those low-life race warriors Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton when we REALLY need them.
Edited by - DirtyDoug on 4/18/2007 8:54:32 PM
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DirtyDoug Deactivated User
143 Posts 3/07
Posted - Apr 18 2007 : 9:05PM
Aw com'on, you've got Star Jones & Oprah, don't you? As for men, what about Al Roker?
Herein lies the problem with your first statement. I'll answer your question with another question. Why do they have to be a ghetto-thug brotha and not just a decent black man? Maybe if they made themselves appear better than the urban trash they depict, things would be different?
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DirtyDoug Deactivated User
143 Posts 3/07
Posted - Apr 18 2007 : 9:14PM
Would you, as a producer or director, hire clowns like Richard Mann or Boz? If so, why? Might it be for the sake of rationalizing the use of a colored performer, or because of their acting skills?And you're certain of this how? Please, show us some evidence, or just point to the conspiracy theory that porn is a subdivision of the KKK.
Don't you get the feeling that Clam Digger is really a WHITE RACIST and an interractial hater POSING as a Blackman on this thread? Read his posts more closely. Alarm bells should be ringing already and we should call his BS out. This guy hasn't got a clue about IR yet he attacks the Genre and its audiences claiming that IR and it's viewers are stupid and racist. In other words, what he's trying to say is the he cannot stand to see Blackmen sexually satisfying White women and wants to have it banned.
It would take several pages of discussion for me to explain to you why we refer to each other as Brothers. It's a long story, and would probably just make you scream and cry about how it's reverse racism.
Having said that, I think the intent of your question is based on a false premise. "Brotha", written as intonation, is not a term that implies gangsterism. It is not a "thug" term. Doctors, Lawyers and other professional Blacks use it on a regular basis. You're just a little out of touch here.
Lex and Sean Michaels are both college educated and very professional men. Both have tried many times to avoid negative stereotypes. Problem is, the white male dominated market wants degradation and humiliation of white women at the hands of thugged out Black gang bangers. As I said in this thread, it's far more about money than race.
Every once and awhile you get some honesty. To my knowledge Devon has never opined that Black men were unattractive or dirty. She said, in no uncertain terms that she refused to do IR because she believed it would cost her money. That's an honest answer. And a reasonable one to boot. She also refused to do anal until the right money was offered for that as well. Were IR more profitable for top contract stars, they would all do it.
Follow the dollars, and it will all make sense. Follow the race baiting rhetoric, and it all becomes a shouting match. It's not porn-friends it's porn-business. The only thing that will change things is if someone with enough money and balls comes along and makes porn for porn's sake, and not for profit. Till then, the market will dictate content...
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 9:35AM
Devon_3
I'm not sure if you are serious or that your reading comprehension is that of someone so young that they should not be allowed on any adult site.
Let me briefly restate what this thread is about:
(1). The use of the term IR to market porn, specifically bm/wf, is silly because race as a categorization of human beings is incorrect, unscientific and unsustainable.
(2). IR (porn bm/wf) to often portrays men of color as something less then human.
As for me, I believe that the argument can be made that its use as a marketing tool is in itself racist
Personally I find nothing wrong with a so-called "black" male performing sex with a so-called white women. I fell that all people should have the freedom to pursue their lives without consideration of the color of their skin or, for that matter the size of their cocks
I do not necessarily believe that someone who enjoys watching bm/wf sex is by definition, racist.
Black men portray themselves in the films and if they want to be thugs and ghetto then that's their decision. If they want to be class acts then that's their choice. The title names are chosen mostly demeaning to women not the black men such as White Trash Whore??? So if anyone should bitch it should be us females but we don't because we have enough sense to realize it's business and the business we chose. We know when to call a spade a spade if we are whores so what we're banking on it just like any black man with a 10 inch cock.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 10:21AM
I agree. I just think that the "IR" marketing gimmick should be understood for what it is.
What it is it's business nothing more we call it like we see it. Us as performers/directors aren't offended so why should anyone else be? This is our business and I think if you are offended then all porn should offend you no matter what the title or catagory. To name a few
The Whore Next Door
White Trash Whore
Ghetto Booty
Dirtpipe Milkshake
Butt Bitches
Sack the Wetback
On your knees bitch
I'm your slut
The list goes on it's porn we use dirty language and we title movies under diffrent names to each his own if it offends you watch softer porn with soft titles such as Wicked, Vivid, D.P. etc....
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 12:49PM
I am not offended. Then again, I am not an afro-american. As I said I think that that we should understand what is behind it. As you said in an earlier post here that in Europe the classification has no meaning and is not thought of as a marketing tool. I think that that says a lot about our society and of the underlying tone of racism that has been with us since the days of the founding fathers.
BTW, I think that your contributions to this thread have been very informative & I have enjoyed reading them. I think that it is notable that you are the only "industry" person (that I am aware of) who has been part of the discussion. You are +1 with me.
Let's face it, we humans will find a way to screw up anything. Any ism.. (racism, sexism, etc..) is just plain wrong. But we find a way to see fault with each other. This world is made of of just one race - the Human Race, and yet we still find a way to see fault with one another. We could all look alike, dress alike, walk, talk, and act alike - but we would still be able to find some flaw. As Jewel stated (ism) sells and as long as money is the ultimate goal and measure of achievement in this world it will always sell. I'm off my soapbox.
Peace.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 8:14PM