Why is it that pornstars can't crossover into mainstream? Porn seems to be the end of any kind of career possibilities in Hollywood? I mean some of these girls might actually make pretty good actresses (hell, they sure fake it well on screen), so why is it that Hollywood basically blacklists women who do porn? Does casting a pornstar defacto prevent a film from doing well at the box office or something? I guess I'm just asking what set this precedent of keeping porn valley girls in porn valley... ^_^
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Mar 6 2008 : 2:43AM
I suppose you never heard of Traci Lords Or Bree Olson. Look at the 4th entry. I am not going to find all of them for you but you might want to do some research before you claim that pornstars "can't" crossover. Because clearly they can. Maybe it is unusual but "can't" is the exact wrong word. A current article all about porn to mainstream crossovers. Doing research makes posts better. And speaking in absolute terms like can/can't doesn't really make sense when talking about the achievements of others. Edited by - conquistador on 3/6/2008 2:48:20 AM
Well, it isn't that they absolutely can't. Just that it isn't all that easy. And I'd say the reason is the same reason why gay people are still stigmatized.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 6 2008 : 2:59AM
Fewer and fewer of the women today are asked to actually learn lines and act (although they do 'perform') so I can't see how many would even have the skills to crossover.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 6 2008 : 3:33AM
because they have no acting skills plain and simple
I disagree. Any woman who can act like she enjoys having a ten inch cock rammed mercilessly down her throat for 15 minutes while simultaneously being slapped, spat upon and being called "stupid, worthless whore" is most likely a much better actress than 70% of the women in the mainstream movies.
I agree. I've written emails to porn directors, asking for stories, plots and good acting, but I'm basically told that story doesn't sell (in porn). Acting takes skill and talent that can be learned with practice. And it takes real desire. I don't have the desire and I can't act my way out of a paper bag. There's still a small social stigma attached to porn. There are still a lot of people who look down their noses at porn performers. Since studio executives want a large audience, as large as possible... then why risk casting an actor that might turn away some viewers? There are plenty of beautiful women in the world. Just pick another. Yes, we may occasionally see a porn star in a mainstream role, but it's rare.
was already mentioned.. there are hundreds if not thousands of new people coming in to Hollywood each day...easier to cast some new chick than a woman who has done flicks. Also...lightning has to strike for one of these thousands of new chicks to become a star..... takes unique look/star quality + the right role....for any woman to become a mainstream star....
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 6 2008 : 12:59PM
Acting like you enjoy a ten inch cock ramming down your throat is a far cry from anthing that resembles real acting skills Most girls in this biz are doing well to remember how to get home from a shoot
Apart from Julia Roberts and some other very few hot names, porn stars do make more money than Hollywood actresses because they simply get to be in more movies without needing to memorize a whole script, all they gotta do is spread.
It depends what you mean when you say "cross over". There was time when "B-movies" like the kind that play on Cinemax were mostly played by "Scream Queens" and "B- girls" like Shanon Tweed and Julie Strain (among others) now it's mostly porn stars. So that show there are porn stars good enough to at least deliver lines and act. It's not the best acting in the world but there's a long list of "legit" Hollywood actresses that aren't all that great either. With a strong director and the right role I think there are probably plenty of girls in porn that are good enough to play in Hollywood movies. Most of those Scream Queens, and B-Girls never crossed over neither even though some could act and had lots of fans who support them. So many people have a hang up about sex and porn stars I can understand Hollywood not wanting to get those people worked up. There are just too many people out there just waiting to be offended by something and can't wait to let everyone they can know when they are.
I think the crossover is coming. But not from the direction you think. It will not be porn to mainstream but mainstream to porn. A forgotten mainstream actress desperate for the return of the spotlight will use porn to regain her glory. It won’t be a porn company that shoots the picture, but mainstream studio with a string of losers needing a big hit to become relevant again. The sex scenes won’t be shown in Movie Theater, but released on DVD. It will be hugely successfully make a ton of money. Others will follow Movie Theater owners will see all the money their losing to DVD will start showing the porn version along with censured version. Not all the movies made will have porn. But I think the same number that uses sex and nudity now to sell will. And all action movies will. Mainstream actresses will fuck on screen, because if they don't do it, there is a long line of actresses that will. Porn though the internet is becoming more accepted everyday.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 8 2008 : 2:57PM
I agree with Shagdog on this one And for all of you that think porn chicks have talent to crossover ask yourself this: Why? How many of them have taken an acting class? Even out of the ones that aspire to crossover. what about a film class? Hell how many of them even have a GED? We have an ex pornchick who got a mail order diploma and our leading trade magazine refers to her as Dr. porchick, Phd In addition to being improper writing she is as much a Doctor as your average pornchick is an actress; pretending to be one doesnt make you one Maybe they stay in Holiday Inns
I agree with Mike about the talent part of it. Why do mainstream actors and Actresses make so much money. Only a few people can truly capture our attention and imagination and hold us captive for movie or TV show. And also Make us want to come back again and again. Now porn actresses do that to us. But to see her fuck not to talk to us. You can't learn talent or the unique look or the way you talk. Either you have it or you don't. Acting and speech classes will teach you to use your talent. But can't teach you talent. But I also think its special lady that cast away all her inhabitation and total emerge herself into sexual pleasure on camera. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/8/2008 5:24:06 PM
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 8 2008 : 4:21PM
Are there many that actually aspire to cross over? Sounds somewhat naive.
Yeah, yeah. We know about "Dr." Sharon Mitchell. woooot! Besides I think the performers you're referring to have no desire to crossover. The drugged up drop outs. Or at least I hope they don't. You need to have your shit together to get crossover work. I would think that it would be the girls with a semblance of acting ability and professionalism like Kirsten Price, Carmen Hart, etc who would want to try. Also, the amount of crossover work a porn performer gets is in no way relevant to their acting abilities. I love Stormy to bits as a porn personality. She plays "Stormy Daniels" very well. Did you see her on Dateline? Holy shit. I'm surprised she refrained from smashing Martin Bashear's head in. I would have. Kept that sparkling white smile on her face. So poised, demure and ladylike when he asked her one insidiously degrading question after another. THAT was a performance. But give her prewritten lines and she does okay. Acting ability does not equal crossover work. Casting a porn actress is a gimmick. It's a hook. A bit of inside joke to those viewers pervy enough to recognize porn stars. I wish it could be more. Maybe Stormy is plotting at this very moment to make it more. I wish I could turn on my tv and see Penny Flame with the lead on some 20-something sitcom. She would kick ass, but it ain't gonna happen. Hillary Scott wrote something about how she wishes she would have discovered her interest/talent in acting BEFORE she became a self-proclaimed anal whore. She knows it's a no go. RP is the resident defender of all porn ladies' honor. It's just what he does. :)
Isn't there a porn chick stereotype that half of them came to LA hoping to become Hollywood stars, only turning to porn when their dreams were unfulfilled? In my experience most of the people who seriously want to act (including the ones who fail miserably) will give it a go at an amateur level, or at least take an few acting classes, before going out and trying to make a living from it. I find it a little surprising how few women in porn actually appear to have that background. I remember Aurora Snow mentioning that she'd wanted to be a mainstream actress before she started in porn. She said in an interview that she performed in regional theater as a teenager, and was a theater major for a while in college. Unsurprisingly she's only had a couple of mainstream cameos, not enough to see if she can really act. Novelty casting in low budget horror films like Bio Slime probably doesn't do much to help a porn performer's credibility as a mainstream actor. I doubt that Unnamed Adult Actor is a role that's really going to test Roxy De Ville's acting ability... Considering the number of women doing porn it's hard to believe that none of them have any natural acting talent.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 8 2008 : 6:17PM
I'm just saying one would think there are other and more logical roads leading to mainstream movie or TV production work. To take acting classes, star in local plays and climb the ladder that way sounds like a more natural path for a person with serious aspirations to become a serious mainstream actress. But I'm sure it's a floating boundary, between porn and mainstream I mean, half of the famous women in mainstream are after all bimbos more than they are actresses.
That was in the 70's when porn was on the big screen. Most if not all the early stars male and female had already failed at mainstream careers before entering porn. Then came the classic "I was tricked into doing porn by a evil man" An old favorite of the anti-porn crusaders. I think most come now to fuck and party and go back home.I'm sure they have some. But what are you talking about. Appearing - yes - and some have one or two words - yes - and some have a sentence or two - maybe some - and some have a main character - no Star - no If you think it's easy go see Paris Hilton's movie lol Edited by - Shagdog on 3/8/2008 7:29:17 PM
Plenty of them probably do but you have to consider the other side of the coin...Porn isn't really a place where it's easy to shine if you have that natural talent. You're surrounded by crumby acting from others, the writing is overall pretty weak, the direction isn't all that great when the sex scenes aren't being shot, they're shooting at breakneck speed probably going with the first take that isn't out and out terrible and most of the people watching could really care less if you're doing an Oscar worthy performance, they want to see sex. It's silly to simply dismiss all porn stars outright as not having natural acting talent when all those factors are present. In mainstream Hollywood there are tons of actresses who aren't that great and get by mostly on looks. But they have a huge advantage over porn stars because... Many of the Hollywood actresses have acting coaches that are even there with them on set. Hollywood have stronger directors who know how to get a great performance out of an actress. On real movies a director will do as many takes as they need to get the best performance. Hollywood actresses are cast correctly based on their strengths (most of the time). We've seen plenty of people who started out doing other things: singers, rappers, models, etc., who probably came in with less acting experience than most porn girls and made it in Hollywood.
Oh yeah...I read in AVN that Shy Love got a part in a small film and the director was so impressed with her that he's writing his next film with her in a starring role.
A lot of the girls in porn actually like that kind of treatment, no acting required! :-)
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 8 2008 : 8:43PM
I caution you not to believe everything you read in AVN..if you do you would believe that we (as in porners) have "eradicated HIV", That Asia Carrera was in MENSA (she wasn't) and that Shy Love is having a feature length movie custom written for her.
i dont agree that any of the porn starlets have crossed over to mainstream. There are some who are very popular outside of porn, but for being good bangs in porn flicks. Jesse Jane? Please. Her 5 second, one liner in Entourage was laughable. Jesse Jane gets these so called 'roles' because she is a wild fuck on film. not because of her acting skills. Mainstream. No. Tracy Lords, the first question in her media interviews is always about porn. She still hasn't crossed over and will forever be known for porn.
Asia was definitely a member of Mensa, I once checked the membershiplist of American Mensa and she was there, under her real name of course. And she was also featured in Mensa Bulletin as one of the famous members. Jacco
Good point. The "crossover" that occurs may be that "sex" not "pornstars" is becoming more acceptable in mainstream cinema/cable. There will probably be more "Brown Bunny" type mainstream movies where respected indie actresses like Chloe Sevigny ("Boys Don't Cry") will perform sex acts on film. Chloe gave a real blowjob in "Brown Bunny." Also, Cable series' are ripe for real sex. Cable systems already carry full penetration, XXX films from Vivid and others. And series like "The L Word" already have explicit girl-on-girl sex--that's no different from Vivid's "Where The Boys Aren't." Bottom line, and to speak to this thread's question: IMO a pornstar like Sunny Leone could become a regular cast member on a Cable series like "The L Word." And if she stays for a few years, she could build upon that experience to get other Cable or Indie film work. But, I wouldn't expect to ever see Sunny Leone in a starring role on a broadcast TV series like "Lost" or in the female lead in the next "Bourne Identity" film.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 9 2008 : 12:51AM
actually asia didnt join mensa until she was outed for saying she was a member when she wasn't. I met her on several occasions but in all honesty judging by her actions if she was smart she was one of those idiot savants because she had no common sense at all and therein kinda lies my point all of these people want to do something or be known for something other than porn but it's kind of like going to heaven....none of them wants to do what it takes to get there.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 9 2008 : 12:55AM
To my knowledge there has only been one truly successful crossover but it was a guy, Sonny Landham All this said I think if theres one girl in porn right now that is poised to at least semi-successfully make the transition it would be Stormy. She is smart, ambitious and she is willing to do what it takes to get there.
I was saving Chloe Sevigny in "Brown Bunny" for someone who said I was wrong. lol It stirred up controversy at the Cannes Film Festival. It was the most popular screening that year. Everybody wanted to see her suck cock on the big screen. It didn't end Chloe Sevigny's career, but made her even a bigger name star. Then you had Madonna in "Body of Evidence" Word was Madonna and Willem Dafoe were having sex in the movie. I don't think it hurt Madonna's career. The celebrity sex tapes haven't hurt anyone at all. Pamela Anderson is still maken money bing Pamela Anderson. The queen of celebrity sex tapes Paris Hilton just got a new TV show. Even Meg Ryan did a almost porn movie. A lot have stars have done a nude soft core scene. No one even complains anymore. Paris Hilton got some tsk tsk and the shame finger pointed at her. But she didn't let them throw her in the black hole of shame. I agree about cable TV, but porn won't be considered mainstream until it's in the movies. Hollywood has alway lived on sex. The bottom line when the public is ready for it, they will give you sex on the big screen. We will never get tired of seeing beautiful ladies, and will never get tired of seeing beautiful ladies get fucked. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/9/2008 5:50:24 AM
Exactly Women like to fuck as much as men, They just want to be loved and respected for it, not shamed and ridiculed. Women are natural exhibitionist. It's in their DNA. That is why they are always fixing their hair, put on lipstick and make up, want attractive clothes. They can't help it. And it's all to attract a sexual partner. I have a nude picture collection of girl friends and ex-wifes. I've never pulled the camera out, that women didn't get into having her picture took naked, and went a lot farther than she ever imagined she would. Men as a society needs to work on gaining the trust of women. If women trust us with their sexually the benefits are enormous.
Oh come on...It's not that hard to believe. I'm sure the first movie is some small indy movie that no one will have never heard of that might just pop up on the shelf of your local video store one day without any fanfare. For the second movie he probably thought it might be cool to cast this pretty girl (Shy)in a lead role and maybe some of her fans might want to check it out and help his sales and/or maybe her acting was okay...or maybe he figures he can bang her...it any case I don't think it's that hard to believe. We're not talking about the next Ang Lee or Peter Jackson movie here.
Like I said in my first post on this subject, it all depends what you mean by "crossover" or "mainstream". I's say Tracy Lords "crossed over" and is in "mainstream" because she's had multiple roles in movies I can find in family friendly video stores and on cable movies that aren't softcore skin flicks. She gets lead roles and doesn't have to do nude scenes to get the parts. I'd say Ginger Lynn crossed over also. Sure, the movies these girls do aren't the big blockbusters that show up at the local cineplex but they're movies with a budget, make money, require acting and aren't porn movies.
I wish Aurora Snow could crossover more. I really want to see her scene in Superbad. I wonder what rate pornstars take for mainstream work it should be specified with their agencies.
1. The truth is Chloe's career was very much in question after "Brown Bunny." I think she may have even lost her agent. She's mostly an Indie actress, but had made some ("Palmetto") big studio productions. Her big studio work disappeared after "Bunny." She remains visible and employed as a regular on "Big Love"--as the most uptight wife, Nicolette. In short, Chloe is reviving her career after "Brown Bunny" by playing down (not"up") her sexuality. 2. As for Madonna & Willem Dafoe in "Body of Evidence"--only simulated sex was captured on film. Which is different that Chloe's actual blowjob scene. BTW, a list of mainstream actors/actresses who actually had sex during "R" rated or non-rated mainstream films could fill an encyclopedia! But, like Madonna & Willem's scenes, any real sex that happens on a mainstream set is edited out. That, to me, does not move the mainstream industry closer to "crossing over" to porn. 3. I agree about Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and others sex tapes not bringing an end to their celebrity. It partly means that the mainstream public is less prudish, and viewing the "private" sex of celebrities doesn't effect their careers. That's NOT the same as accepting a porn performer who's "talent" is having hardcore sex, with numerous people they're not in a personal relationship with in front of a camera. And, I'm not even going to mention the lack of acceptance of gonzo-style, extreme & aggressive sex--that the mainstream views as degrading. 4. Lastly it's been mentioned before, in other threads, that mainstream directors like Brian DePalma ("Body Double", "Femme Fatale", "Mission Impossible", "The Untouchables") have wanted to use porn performers in "principal" roles--but the studios said "no." The most famous case was DePalma wanting to use 1970s porn actress Annette Haven in the "Body Double" role that eventually went to Melody Griffith. Annette and the film's female lead, Deborah Shelton ("Dallas"), have a strong physical resemblance. Melody looks nothing like Deborah, and the entire premise of the movie suffered.
Did anyone see Chloe Sevigny's appearance on "The View" when she was doing a the first press tour for "Big Love"? The 4 main cast members were there and Joy brought up "Brown Bunny" and the blowjob. Chloe looked like she wanted to crawl under the coffee table. She did not look proud. Bill whatever-his-name-is who plays the husband got pissed off at Joy for asking, raised his voice at her, basically telling her it was inappropriate. Joy of course argued back. It was edited out of the west coast version. The fact that Sevigny looked humiliated simply by Joy bringing it up doesn't give me much hope for the backward crossover. Edited by - savoy on 3/9/2008 11:34:37 AM
Well not this week. Times they are changing And people were there to promote their movie. Not the past movies. She defended it at the time very well. And porn is not going to be accepted by everyone. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/9/2008 12:10:06 PM
no matter what words came out of her mouth, her facial expression said it all.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Mar 9 2008 : 12:14PM
Based on what I read in a recent interview with Chloe Sevigny, who appears in Sundance/Indie type movies, probably was disappointed her overall performance, in the that movie, was overlooked because of that sex scene. The BJ has become the focus of that film beyond any artistic or social message it's makers and cast may have intended.
IMO, the "Brown Bunny" was just a terrible movie. And either the producers or distributors publicized the blowjob scene to try to get people to come and see it. BTW, I believe Chloe was dating Vince Gallo at the time they made "Brown Bunny" and she gave him an on-screen blowjob. This probably influenced her decision. Vince is also the writer/director of the movie.
Porn making the crossover. This week.Her expression said what. Was she blind sided by a question. That wasn't supposed to be asked? These interviews are about a topic and are discussed before hand. The the cast was there for the movie being promoted. If the View wanted to discuss the blow job and book her separately. That it was later edited and cast was angry would intricate that was not to be discussed.
yes, i know that talk shows have set questions and guidelines. a look of surprise would have been understandable, but she literally folded in. It gave me a look at her unguarded reaction, not a prepared one which is undoubtedly what you would get if she knew the topic was "Brown Bunny".
Well you intrepid it as you wish. She still hasn't expressed shame or remorse over it. She is disappointed that people are critical without seeing the movie. And she is still working.
