Following the guidelines of most consumers who support internal cumshots, we had to drop all safety laws in all kinds of industries.
We even had to drop the human rights because they forbid a human being to sell himself into slavery.
Hey, why doesn't have a girl the freedom to sell herself as sex slave? It's her free choice.

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Haven't seen anything by Exquisite Pleasures. I'll have to check them out...

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"What the hell? It's the girls who choose to do it or not -- it's not up to the fans to force them. I say, good on them, for doing only the things they are comfortable with."

I don't like blacklists in general. They tend to be all about stopping communication instead of setting up a dialogue. They are the proverbial 'talk-to-the-hand' act. They also tend to have adverse effects -- in this case, I wonder how many readers will look to the list to find companies that still do anal cream pies.
I would prefer to see a positive 'whitelist' instead: a list of companies that have stopped shooting anal cream pies, so readers, who want to, can support them.




Steph said:
“Jews have the fluffiest balls of them all! (can I say that?)”

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Edited to add: According to the Vatican, HIV can be transmitted even through a condom, but that's not my point here.

Edited by - Hurrab on 8/24/2005 11:57:30 AM

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A "whitelist"? Sounds like a reasonable concept, how many names would it contain? How quickly would the impression be given that it contains all porn companies?

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Edited by - robbie on 8/24/2005 1:38:05 PM

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All performers know what the shoot is going to be and sign a release.

If they are uncomfortable then they don't do it.
If they do it because of the money offered they only have themselves to blame.

I don't hear a big outcry for other STD's that may be spread by performing oral, vaginal, cunnilingus.

Let the pornstars set there own boundries.

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Think of it like this: every day I get in my car and go to work. Now I might die in a traffic accident, but I weigh up the risk and decide that the money I earn in the day is worth taking the risk for. It's the same with the girls: it's a job for them, they know that there are risks, but they're adults and they can exercise their right to self-determination and decide to do the dirty and take the cash.

Some girls don't think it's worth the risk, and of course they're absolutely entitled to do that. But I'm not going to pretend I don't think more highly of a pornstar who puts herself at risk to perform an act that gets me off.

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Now how likely is it for a 'new talent' to be asked by one of the producers mentioned above
do you do anal? do you do double anal? hey, what about an internal cumshot?
For me a guy coming inside me feels much better than a facial anyway,
however if I were a talent working in America today, I wouldn't want to take such risks.

Some performers who post here already spoke out they don't or will not do it anymore, stars like Katja Kassin, Melissa Lauren or Taryn Thomas.

I said in the other thread you have to eat humble pies first, what I meant was of course I'd prefer to see more condoms, but since this is an unrealistic goal right now I focus on smaller things that also need to change in my humble opinion.

It seems many people forget that it is pretty useless if you get booked for 'non condom gonzo' shots
and decide to not do internal cumshots anymore, but all your partners around you do and take that risk
not only for themselves but also endanger others.
Well, I never said that talent can't be selfish too, however if you are than you should at least
tell your sexpartners if you did a multiple creampie shot just yesterday.

Without the producer nobody would be put at any risk, so they have an accountability to the
community of performers too, and part of this accountability is to revaluate the risks when facts about
acts that have a high risk of resulting in HIV transmission become known.
Evil Angel drew a conclusion and shows that it can be done in gonzo too, Vivid, Wicked/Dorcel take it even
one step further.

The fans requesting and buying this stuff create the demand for it and need therefore be addressed too,
those who decide to support 'caring producers' can now use such a list to avoid the creampie line flicks
whenever possible. Also repeatedly questioning the need of such high risk acts helps to raise consciousness.

I also appreciate what juha wrote. There is no limitless uber idea that always takes precedence
over every other. In our case, it's the idea of freedom of choice. For me it ends if people other
than yourself are put at unreasonable risks. From what I know today I consider creampies 'unreasonable'.

Is a 'blacklist' the right way? I have no idea, at least we now have some kind of discussion going on. the end justifies the means, for me .

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What's your problem?
Have you been dumped by your true love?
Has your mom left your dad when you was a small kid?
Or is your bitchy boss at work a woman?

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For all the talk that flowed through the industry not too long ago, things really don't seem to have actually changed too drastically since the last American industry outbreak. From a cost-benefit standpoint, as long as there is a market for this kind of product the producers have no impetus outside of altruism to change their ways. And the further we are removed from the last (there's always a next, it's cyclical) outbreak the higher the likelihood that female performers decide that the benefits of doing high-risk, well-paying acts outweigh the costs because most of them will have not been around long enough to remember or even know about a man named Darren James or Marc Wallace before him.

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I referred to a column I read somewhere else in the ADT archives that talked about the dangers of anal creampies. It also shows a workaround to maintain the fantasy of the act while ensuring the safety of the performers...with minimal cost to the bottom-line. Certainly there is a little cost in the production effort, but minimal compared to other measures that keep people safe like regular HIV & STD testing.

There's no guarantees of safety in an imperfect world. But, I would think it not unreasonable to consider pragmatic, small steps towards a safer working environment.

Btw, I don't know if any kind of boycott here would be effective, especially on a forum where gonzo acts are prized and any talk of limits automatically get people up-in-arms. You only need to read the thread I link to, to see how many ADT posters are against banning anal creampies. Whether it's the act itself or the principle of banning/boycotting, I would be surprised if you have much success with this approach.

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And why do you insist on calling people "Boy"? In American English this can be considered quite degrading.

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Boy, that was fun!

Boy, you don't see that every day!

Heck, you can even say it to a woman -

Boy, that outfit looks good on you.

Other than that, questioning people's motives is legitimate, so long as it isn't simply negative labelling with a question mark attached.

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In this thread

Juha says:
"Start something positive, boy."

But anyway, that is not the point of this thread. I'm not going to say a damn thing about the ADT Hall of Justice, or their new black list, because it ain't going to do any good. I'll let the (Chocolate) Crusaders have their moment if it makes them feel better about the world.

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Don't want to come across self-righteous.

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Since English is not your first language, I thought that maybe I would let you know that this is not the optimal way to address an American. That particular usage is considered degrading among many here because of its racial overtones.

Now, back to saving the world, please.

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I think this will never change. Audiences will never accept the same safety measures for porn which are common in any other work environment.

Porn industry will never be like any other industry. And people who work in porn will always be outcasts.

Audiences urge to get off will always be stronger than the scruple and the sympathy.

Perhaps the cream pie lovers will stop to write things like Andy "Hey, girls come and girls go; girls live and girls die; but my balls still need relieving! Some people get so emotionally involved with this!", after they have read this thread. But they will still buy the vids.

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Okay, and now let's look if we can convince a girl to shoot a scene with Marc Wallice. Of course she will get a big extra cheque.

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Let me put it another way. If you are sitting in an unprotected vehicle and a drunk driver smashes into you there is far less chance you'll survive than with all the protection drivers currently enjoy. Why do you imagine things should be any different for people having sex? They would still be fucking, but with a reduced risk of being infected.

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Lee and chocolate_cougar, your blacklist is about companies. Why? Wouldn't the blacklist potentially be more effective if it was about specific lines or even titles that feature anal creampies?
Take Red Light District. RLD has created many different series focusing on many different acts/fetishes. Not all of them include anal creampies. By blacklisting RLD in toto, you are also blacklisting porn that doesn't contain anal creampies, porn you should be supporting in this context. If your blacklisting campaign would be succesful, you would be hurting a porn company, not necessarily the occurence of anal creampies in porn itself.
If on the other hand you would only list the series and titles produced by RLD which actually contain anal creampies, your blacklisting campaign would be more focused to the act itself. If such a campaign would be succesful, RLD would soon find out that their series containing anal creampies are not nearly as succesful as their series which don't contain anal creampies. Knowing how sales numbers are so important for most porn makers, this would be a real incentive for the people at RLD to stop producing the series focused on anal creampies and to put more focus on porn which doesn't contain the act.

That is, if your campaign is succesful and the blacklist is really meant to make a difference...



croy said:
“There are things that, even when you are nuts, you should know not to say.”

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Sorry but I'm over the car analogy. That's the problem - too much analogy.

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However, there are boy/girl scences not man/girl scences (technically they are ) and girls have boyfriends not manfriends.

Anyway, I realise that I am further derailing this important thread, so I'll shut up now, and I've already made one fuckup in this thread already

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This whole debate basically revolves around the question, "Should performers do it or should they not?" I think it's entirely up to them.

Edited by - Zoid on 8/25/2005 11:55:34 AM

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Great stunt work in Smokey in the Bandit. Interesting how the Hoover Dam was built too.

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Edited by - Lee O on 8/25/2005 3:53:06 PM

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