Since you say you don't want to put anyone at risk that does not wish to be at risk. And since you seem to be pretty aware of the free market concept, I have to ask you one important question: Why will you go on purchasing creampie-porn?
A law against creampies doesn't fit into the American tradition. But I get the feeling its the only way, because consumers like you deny to be upright responsible Americans.
If you stop buying, the demand DEcreases. The price DEcreases. The amount of money, a producer offers for an anal creampie DEcreases. The number of girls who are willing to do a creampie DEcreases. The number of girls who don't catch HIV INcreases.
Don't tell me you can't make a difference just because there are thousands of comsumers out there who won't change their bad habits.
If you really mean it that you don't want to see creampies at the cost of someone life, STOP IT!
Be an upright American who does his share to make this world a better place.
Well as you obviously realise it was just a suggestion and an idea. I feel there are many options for funding it. One could put in a very small 'porn tax'. Lets say 0.5% of every dollar earned by someone in the porn industry goes in this porn tax fund. These sessions im suggesting should also work out rather cheaply. Every person would only need lets say 3 sessions of lets say 2hours each. These also dont have to be one on one sessions. And one doesnt need a brain surgeon to be heading these sessions. A health worker would be sufficient. Or even a nurse? As to what gets taught ... - how about the FACTS. I would be happy with using CDC test statistics etc and then sortof also breaking them down into real terms so that everyone can understand exactly what they mean and imply. As far as what is 'acceptable' to share i feel that EVERYTHING should be told. Is there something to hide? Do tell.Well with my proposed database every performer will be able to see exactly what the other performers they are starring with have done and can on that basis choose how much 'risk' they are willing to take. You should even be able to see if an actress has been involved with another actor who did a scene with another actress who did a scene with another actor who did a scene with a girl who did an anal creampie 4months ago. With all this info i feel the performers should be able to make a calculated decision.I do realise there is a market for junk like kiddie porn etc. For this reason it is made on the underground market. But surely you would have to agree the market for anal creampies is MUCH larger. Furthermore i think it is more of a common concept that kiddie and animal porn are violating certain peoples and animals rights , whereas i can see many people feeling that doing an anal creampie isnt that bad. Married couples do it everyday and there is no law against it so why should it be illegal to record it? So i forsee a MUCH larger underground market than the present one for the extreme acts you named. Furthermore i can see a lot of mainstream girls jumping between the two. They will mostly do mainstream porn but everynow and then do an anal creampie on the underground market for a quick buck. Once again this kind of defeats the purpose of banning it in the first placeWell i reread Melissa's posts and i dont think she is far off the mark. Most of what she said is true. The statement that you are more likely to get HIV in the outside world than in the porn industry is maybe a little shaky but its all about interpretation. An interpretation that makes Melissa's statement correct is that per anal creampie done , your chance of getting HIV in the outside world is greater than in the porn industry. This would be assuming that an anal creampie done with some random on the street who has never been tested puts you at greater risk than doing an anal creampie with someone in the industry (who has been tested regularly). I also agree with what i deem to be the essence of her posts. Risk is everywhere and everyone has to decide on their own how much they are willing to take. And she also mentions the fact that anal sex also allows for easy transmission of the HIV virus yet everyone seems to be cool with this.Well the talent is the only one at risk. I realise that there are other 'players' but if with all the facts the actor/tresses still want to do it , i do believe in freedom of choice.
Firstoff ... im not american. Not that it matters. The fact is i believe in freedom of choice! The porn industry is a 'risky' business. Dont do porn if you dont want these risks. Or at least do condom only porn if you want to eliminate most of the risks. Even condoms are not 100% safe but its pretty damn close.
Here is how i see this whole debate. You have two sides. 'Pro life' and 'Pro choice'. Please dont grill me on these names ive chosen. 'Pro choice' is pretty self explanatory. But i have a problem with the stance the 'Pro lifers' have taken. In my opinion if you are truly pro life then you would insist only on condom-only porn or no porn at all. That is the only way to make the risks rather minimal or non-existant. Its as if the pro lifers are saying ... 'o well , i dont mind 5 porn stars dying but 15 is just too much!' (i made these numbers up for arguments sake). If you are pro life go pro life all the way! ANAL SEX MAY HAVE STARTED AS THE MOST COMMON FORM OF TRANSMISSION BUT UNPROTECTED VAGINAL SEX IS NOW THE NUMBER ONE TRANSMITTER OF THE HIV VIRUS. Once again i ask ... as a 'true' pro lifer how can you only worry about anal creampies? I find this extremely hypocritical.
In fact ... since we are being all selective. Since we are choosing what to discriminate against. Since only anal creampies are the single cause of HIV. And since we are only worried about certain consenting people possibly putting others at risk. Why dont we just outlaw Bisexual males! They do anal creampies with other gay men and then have sex with straight women! They are putting women at risk arent they? ........ The women dont have to sleep with them! PRO CHOICE ... her choice! Just so ... people in the porn industry choose to do what they do.
I will say this though. Decreasing the demand for ACP's will decrease the production. I just dont see this 'boycott' happening. Good luck
Not really. As this and the other thread indicate, what you have is pro-informed-choice, pro-reduction-in-risk, and pro-whatever-my-fetish-is.Now you are confusing probability and statistics. Go look at the CDC numbers again. Do the number of HIV infected people performing vaginal sex acts exceeds the number of those performing anal sex acts? I submit that they do, and that the difference in numbers easily fits in with the probabilities stated by the CDC. That being the case, your point fails.
Nowhere in my capital letters statement did i say anything about performing. Im talking about HIV infections worldwide. More people are infected worldwide by vaginal sex than by anal sex. Im not saying that vaginal sex is more risky on a one to one basis. I know anal is more risky. Im just pointing out the fact that people almost seem to see some sort of safety net in vaginal sex. Forgetting the stats ... vaginal sex does transmit the disease a hell of a lot.
And ok ill give it to you on the first statement. But i was basically basing that on the person/people asking 'dont i care about the lives of porn stars?'
I'm not talking about a general boycott. I'm talking to you, who claimed that he doesn't want to whack of at the cost of someone's life. You can't change the world, but you can change some facts.
But if you are guy of the Andy2-kind ("Hey, girls come and girls go; girls live and girls die; but my balls still need relieving! Some people get so emotionally involved with this!"), I won't bother you in the future. Sorry.
IF all my suggestions are implemented i dont see any girls being put at risk that dont want to be there! I feel you are basically just trying to restrict consenting peoples freedom.
At the cost of whose life! Who am i killing here? Its a dangerous job! There are many much more dangerous jobs! No one is necessarily dying! I mean you would think Melissa Lauren is doing her anal creampie just for me the way you are going on.
Try not to let this get personal. I will agree to disagree if that makes you feel better. But im guessing it doesnt.
These are the realities of the free world. Magazines encourage women to lose weight resulting in depression and anorhexia. Catholisism encourages one to disaprove of gays and pornography and the usage of condoms. Gun control acts allow just about anyone to purchase a firearm. Cigarretes and alcohol are allowed to be sold to poison our bodies.
Shouldnt everyone care more about others and less about themselves? Reality bites.
And with all this said i still believe a consenting adult has the abilty to go against the fans encouragement and i feel one is insulting the talents intelligence by saying otherwise.
What's confusing to you, juha? Perform is synonymous with do, execute, accomplish, achieve, etc. I'm simply point out to Braintax that his reading of my statement is erroneous.
Everyone in the Chatsworth porn scene is supposed to have a valid test result from AIM showing their HIV status. They are not supposed to be allowed to perform without this test in hand, showing negative results. This is a voluntary arrangement but, so far as we know, it is one everybody in that community adheres to.
Normally, the performers get tested once a month, though they can test more often if they so choose. This means that, unlike in the rest of the world, someone with HIV is going to get discovered early on, usually within 60 days of infection.
So, we're not talking about apples and apples when we compare HIV infection risks in the rest of the world with HIV infection risks in porn. We're talking about what are the high risk acts that are likely to pass on HIV during this brief period before AIM's testing can detect it. Well, what is the highest risk sex act? The answer is that anal sex with an internal ejaculation carries the highest risk of infection, according to the CDC. And, surprising no-one, anal sex with an internal ejaculation has been identified in every instance of HIV being contracted inside the Chatsworth porn industry.
Thus, when we're talking about performing unprotect vaginal intercourse or oral sex versus unprotected anal sex with an internal 'creampie' we're talking about the difference between taking a risk and taking a stupid risk.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 8:49PM
Ah, nice. Finally someone else feels my pain as well.
Lee and chocolate_cougar (really, that is too long a name -- can we call you cc from now on?), about your replies to my company vs. specific titles remark:
1) I am waaaaaaayyyyy more lazy than the both of you combined. I am the Tiger Woods of laziness, while you are just rank amateurs. Really.
2) About not wanting to give money to the companies who produce anal cream pies titles, I can understand that, but still you are giving a mixed signal to those companies -- if they are picking up any signals at all, that is.
3) I don't believe this thread has much effect on the business at all, as a blacklist of companies, that is. But I can only hope -- together with many here, I hope -- that it does function as an educational tool for both consumers and performers.
Skeeter Kerkove said: “It is all porn folklore, about pornstars getting pregnant from anal sex. There ain't no such thing as a little butt baby!”
uh, how about someone just painting, playing an instrument or writing dirty, filthy haiku-poetry for their own benefit?
sports? 99% of the people who make it to the level where someone would choose to watch them outside of their immediate family and friends didn't get to that point by giving a shit about whether anyone was going to see them play.
most people playing sports or making art do it because they enjoy it, and they invest a huge amount of their lives in practices or throwing crumpled paper in wastebaskets in comparison to the amount of time someone's actually watching them get their 38 minutes of PT or pausing for a few seconds at an exhibition. that's if they ever get an audience.
there's no provisionalism in porn, no preseason, no starving or second jobs. you show up, people are going to see it. anyone who doesn't show up for shoots for the money and dreamed of showing the world their sexual fluids for years is fixated to the point of illness.
any kind of acting or film is going to be at the impure end of the artistic spectrum just because audience design's impossible to leave out of the creative process. porn's about as artistic as elks rutting on animal planet, they don't even have to convincingly mimic anything else like an actor does or come up with a great plot.
Cool, I haven't had the old "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" debate for a while now. Except in this case the painters themselves will have seen the paintings and have therefore provided an audience. So, yes, the work is art right from inception.
As it happens I do think porn is art, just very very poor art for the most part. Not quite sure what that has to do with the debate over anal cream pies though...
I'm not quite sure where the mixed signal exists, but am ready and willing to hear something to improve the focus of this thread. The only message I wish to send to studios or directors is that I won't be buying product from them if they shoot anal cream pies. Where is the complexity in that statement, I really don't get it?
And please don't post any more quotes from convicted child molesters in threads I might start. I realise you try and do the quote function randomly, but please try to keep that sort of thing away from me. Thanks.
The mixed signal might be that the studios think that you don't like their product in general. They might try this and that to improve their product but wouldn't have a clue that it is the ANAL CREAMPIE they must stop to win you back as customer.
hardware, i dont think that AIM tests are voluntary....its asked for by directors 100 percent of the time. its mandatory on every set i have ever been on. :)
c'mon burnsie, let's skip the diversionary exercise of defining "art" and "artist" and go by the pre-packaged ones that work fine without mangling the thread and ending up with confusion like we both know that stuff has the potential for. so yeah, some artists don't get recognized during their lifetimes. i think they're artists, the western tradition doesn't disagree. but i can't secure support from ispewonmyface, which concerns me.
Only if they like to be part of a fluxus or even more accurate a happening. That they see/read the work is just as ineviteable and necessary to the act itself, just like a football player also watches what happens on the field.Let's keep it super simple:
Level 1: The hobby driver who goes the local club track, the Nordschleife. He or she does it, because he wants to feel the experience. Some people shoot balls through improvised goals in their garden together with well-known friends. Oh, and people have sex with their significant others. Any of these activities bears a certain risk.
You often don't need a ruleset because people are capable to recognise the conditions and limits of their close partners.
If there are zero or 1 000 000 spectators is absolutely irrelevant, they do it because of some sort of "vocation" (see jamesboston's posts).
Level 2: Sometimes they want to play together with "strangers", race with strangers (on amateur level) and so on.
Being not so familiar with the peers, they adopt rules to prevent the most hazardous activities, like some forms of tackling, agree that going zig-zag on a straight is forbidden, and so on.
Remember playing football with the two our three kids of your immediate neighbourhood you grew up with, you did not need rules. Playing with the pack from the next block you almost instinctively negotiated some ruleset, even if some verboten form of tackling was quite common when playing with your close friends (but you knew about the limits and condition of your close friends.) Even if they go professional, get paid, these hazardous acts remain in the "verboten" zone. Regarding sex, maybe people choose to go a step further and attend a swinger/bdsm party or club to experience a fantasy. They also adopt some "ruleset".
Spectatorship is also neglectable at this stage.
Of course "thrillseekers" exist. People, who don't respect the others and the "normal" sportsmen single them out (because the represent a risk) - most often at Level 1.
Known "barebackers", thrillseekers are not the most welcomed people AFAICS in real life, and form another scene with loose or no contact to the established sports or swinger scene, e.g.
Level 3: Now some people make a step up and get paid for doing their performance - and the wishes of spectators become something to be taken care of.
The rulesets have the tendency of becoming tighter and more restrictive the more professionalism is introduced.
In the bizarro world of porn, however, the single most hazardous act is not "verboten" (the whole acp issue is only the tip of the iceberg), but even appreciated and demanded.
People demanding from sportsmen to run zig-zag on a straight or demanding to axe the player from the other team will just get a GFY from the athletes - if not: see "governing body". The fans would tell these "fans" go watch a crash race or underground fight club, to fulfill their psychopathological urges.
Of course there are differences: 1. The porn biz does not have a governing body, to penalise misconduct or not respecting the rules. (Even industries - in civilised countries - have some code of conduct, enforced either by the government and/or unions and/or industry associations.)
2. Watching sports is watching reality, watching porn is watching a fantasy. In movies people usually enjoy a fantasy. Portraying hazardous acts, the risks are circumvented with using the magic of editing, camera, light and SFX. An anal creampie is probably one of the most easiest acts to do. Even shooting an actor in a movie with a .45 ACP is more difficult.
3. In sports (or art) most or all active players/performers have a vocation, they would do it regardless of spectators or if they can make money with their performance.
But it seems that there is quite a large proportion of porn performers, who did not go through the "lower" classes The lower classes where they are educated, learn the ropes, where they are confronted with the mishaps, which can happen participating in dangerous sports.
You can see this, when fans are scared that the source of replenishment dries up. On a sport board it would be discussed what can we do that the people with a vocation can reach Level3, how can we easen things that people from our region can achieve star status.
Yet what is discussed on a porn board on that matter: "Which is the next country poor enough to provide us with new performers." You could add in brackets: People desperate enough to take these risks (social stigma, health, and so on), because we don't find enough people to take these risks because of a vocation.
The conclusion:
This has more to do with finding slaves for a Roman arena than with sports or art. (Yes, I am aware that there were some - but few - free Romans who fought in the arena).
The whole "freedom of choice" issue becomes moot. (Also I have never heard anyone claim that capitalistic systems of modern Western civilisations have anything to do with "freedom of choice" outside of a porn board.)
Producers, who encourage the tip of the iceberg hazard, have more to do with setting up crash races or if you will setting up death lotteries which the (rich/higher class) spectators can watch.
Well, the death lottery provider in a generic science fiction story has often higher moral grounds than an acp porn producer, since in a story with a death lottery the participants are often well informed about the risks, which is - as you can see in this thread - not true in acp porn performers - Re: freedom of choice, Part 2.
Given that the act of anal creampie is one of the most dangerous acts and so easy to circumvent with the tricks of any remotely talented cinematographer, it tells you quite a few tales about the competence and mental state of the producers (employers), performers (employees) and spectators (consumers).
More power to happily producing, watching, discussing movies with rough themes, be it an action movie with an insane dead body count or a porn with rough and in-real-life-dangerous sex and getting enjoyment out of it.
But I refuse to take employers/employees/consumers seriously, who could find their corresponding roles in a Roman gladiators' arena, to say the least.
BTW, thanks jamesn, your last posts saved me a few minutes of typing. Full ACK.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 30 2005 : 3:04PM
I am not questioning anybody's definition of 'art' or 'artists'. I am even willing to admit that I have no fucking clue how 'art' is to be defined. My point is not what the definition of 'art' is, but who defines what 'art' is. And it ain't the 'artist'. Hence my belief that every work of 'art' is made for an audience, be it 'commercialized art' or not.
I could elaborate with various well known art and sociological theories, but I feel my welcome in this thread has been stretched thin as it, so I will bow out of it.
Lee, if you don't want to read quotes from specific people in threads you start, you'd be better off asking me to stop posting in your threads altogether. Or, you could ask me to stop the WBQP™.
Shylock said: “Anal is just like riding a bicycle . . . . . Only without the seat!”
You are more than welcome to post in any and all threads I start, Walter. Unless Hardware tells me you're not, of course...That is not my intention, please continue to post and continue your parade. That particular poster is someone I wish to have nothing to do with, however, as I have no interest in talking with convicted pedos. Frankly his return has made me question my presence on this board.
I agree with your summation of the differences between private , amateur , and professional sport/art but am still confused about how this relates to the issue of this specific thread. Are you saying that porn should ape the model of other industries and the mere fact that it doesn't (in the case of no governing body for instance) shows that it's not related to these more mainstream endeavors?
For me it's far more simple: the act doesn't need to be produced to create a worthwhile scene, with the vast majority of porn fucks ending without an anal cream pie. And even if it's felt to be needed it can be done more safely with special effects. So the only reason I can think that people would want to see this act for real is because they like to imagine the performers in danger. And for the talent to perform it must either come from ignorance of the facts (see Melissa's post), or a desire to take risks, in which case why not go bungee jumping on your own without putting others in the firing line. Either way it's not something I'm willing to financially support.
Especially if jamesboston introduces a "new word". Right-click/LEO-search on "new word"Any analogous field somehow manages to do some risk management worthy of the age of technology. Be it industry, be it sports. Heck, even when artist Hermann Nitsch kills a few cows for his "Theatre of Orgies and Mysteries" he follows the guidelines of the vets for lege artis slaughtering.
But porn performers, who cares? I mean this is the message the industry gives you, not some whacko puritan.
I don't know if the porn biz at large is related or not to mainstream endeavors. I do know whoever, reading the threads on last years US HIV outbreak, this years Hungarian HIV incident and the various threads on high-hazard acts lately, the people in the porn biz at large have a major disconnect with reality.
IMNSHAO the porn biz adapt some policies of other fields, I mean they do not have to invent the wheel. What I find most disturbing is that the sex privateers and amateurs are much more capable of establishing (and enforcing) safe procedures and safety policies.
Of course, why should they do it? Why burn a single buck on "fake semen" and two minutes editing, when you can find another some "dumb bitch" or what an esteemed porn producer calls his employees. Just go a few miles east and you find enough people desperate enough to fill the roster of your death lottery.
Porn will not create the catastrophe which will affect tens to hundred "innocent" bystanders, and frankly who cares (in the general public's view) if some scum is killed or harmed.
The headline "Pornstar infected" is on the same level as "Junkie dies from overdose". Well, the junkie might get more compassion, because s/he may have been tricked into drugs by some evil persons, while the pornstar choose to follow the path of immoral out of free will. Yet again, no evil anti-porn conspiracy. You can hear how cool all in the industry is in every interview/outing of (active) porn people in nowadays' freakshows - radioshows and afternoon TV-shows ((active)porners seldom make it into "serious" media formats).
So even when they make headlines, they will not face repercussions. The victims of the porn biz are nothing to mourn for or worth to take care of. I mean they are not sport athletes worth to be protected from their own stupidity in taking risks by installing anti-doping institutes with a funding which could probably feed half of Africa.
Part of the porn biz must pray that some companies don't make the step into or approach mainstream. Because when porn does so, they won't be able to escape into the near extra-legal status in which they pull their stunts now.
exactly.Thats why they say "I want you to shoot in my mouth". All the same some men are too stupid for something that simple ;)Dear braintax, Your idea to create a database which would allow all performers to get information about their partners is actually very good. It´s not new though. The same idea was discussed during the last porn HIV crisis in America. Since the production companies are obligated by law to store some personal data about the performers like age, nationality and production date anyway, it would be a small step to add more scene data like the sex acts performed and make this data public for producers and the talent pool.
The reality is, it was not done, most companies store and share only the data they are obligated to. In case you ask why is it like that? I can only speculate that there are some lobbies involved who think it´s best to keep talent dumb and administrative expense as low as possible. Also some American companies just license foreign product or they employ foreign producers via a contract and have not much say at all about how things are handled (read: they just receive the finished raw material (if they are lucky)). Dont laugh those kind of loose work relationships do exist in pornland.
I totally stand behind the idea of such a database, however it does not exist yet. And since it does not exist we can´t use it to defend the freedom of choice argument against the reproach that cautious performers are put at unwanted risks.
So if you say you believe a consenting adult has the abilty to go against the fans encouragement, you are of course right, but you should also see how such an adult may endangers all those talents who do not want to take such risks anymore.
Your other point about being a hypocrite for not promoting condoms. I do so since I created my personal account at ADT. (Actually I didnt do much else ;)) I also try to point out which companies produce safer sex porn financially successful and which could do so in the future and in which series it worked to my knowledge. However this does not contradict my attempts to outcast creampie shots as unreasonable stupid risks that no female talent should want to take and no sane male talent agree to perform anymore. It´s a small step to abolish this act without the need to topsy-turvify the whole industry.
The more fans state they will not buy new product anymore which contains creampies the more producers will think about changing their policies since they lose money. The more talent refuses to play russian roulette with their lifes the more the producers must pay those who still want to take such risks, which likely leads to a decline of these shots (given the not buying fan community is bigger than the selfishness of the talent pool).
Also don´t underestimate the element of 'social control' in talent groups. If performers get more aware of the risks implied in internal cumshots the cautious ones will start questioning those who don´t seem to care about anyone but themselves.
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chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Sep 2 2005 : 9:31PM
post removed on second thought, since the addressee decided to bow out of discussion.
Edited by - chocolate_cougar on 9/4/2005 8:47:47 AM
There's plenty of data gleaned from reviews on the IAFD, via www.rame.net if someone wanted to expand on it. How many thousands of reviews are out there which detail who did what to whom while wearing what in which hole?
If you feel so strongly about making up such a database, then go for it. Be the one to do something about it instead of just wasting time talking shit on the internet, because that's all these threads really amount to.
Reviews are written how long after the flick has been shot? Sorry, but the info on IAFD is next to useless for a performer looking to see who has shot what recently. The only way a serviceable list could be created and maintained would be for each and every studio to regularly feed their latest details into a central database. But who would ensure the info was accurate? Who would pay for the service? What sanctions would exist against companies who stepped outside the game?
That's it?! Of all the things to bother with in this thread you chose to take a shot in defense of your panhandling pedophile buddy? Give me break.
As it happens Walter and I are mates, and we've already shrugged off even the possibility of bad blood between us. Thanks for trying though, and better luck next time.
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Sep 5 2005 : 4:58PM
What a great idea. Lets have the blacklist. After all, frequent unprotected oral, anal and vaginal sex with different partners is ok, but to actually ejaculate inside the ass... How dare they be so irresponsible!
Or how about You choose your risks, I'll choose mine, and porn performers choose theirs. They have a choice about everything they do, including whether to be in the industry at all if they are uncomfortable with the acts that the market demands.
If I was a performer I'd be furious with the self-righteous twits talking as if I'm too stupid to make this decision for myself.
You know, what is the great mystery of usenet and webboards:
People who can't read, can write.
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Sep 5 2005 : 7:58PM
Yes, I'm saying something that had already been said by others in the thread, but after reading so many people pontificating endlessly about risks, safety measures, market forces and limits to freedom of choice, I simply felt we needed dragging back to basics. It's all been said. This whole lengthy thread ultimately comes round in a circle to the same thing.
Those who imply that the girls are somehow unable to make their own informed and free choice are not only insulting their intelligence, but also undermining the whole industry with the implication of coerced performers.
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chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Sep 5 2005 : 11:11PM
Dear bumlover, Of course you can make your own informed and free choice to shoot an XX guy anal creampie gangbang tomorrow in some foreign country. (I heard brazilian girls and transsexuals are the next big thing and we don´t want to belie fan expectations, do we?) Your freedom ends however when you reenter the AIM tested talent pool few days after your shoot and proceed shooting as normal, endangering those talents who don´t have a fucking clue about your history and might have abandoned the risks implied with creampies for themselves.
By telling talent to get another job if they don´t want to take such risks you basically tell all those who decided to not shoot creampies anymore to leave the industry.
Also Tricia Deveraux as an industry insider, who has helped at Evil Angel to establish a no creampie policy for future productions, has stated she often met new girls at fairs who had no idea about the risks of internal cumshots at all. Threads like these help to raise consciousness among talents and pornfans alike. Those fans who don´t want to support companies putting people at such risks can use the list to avoid those product. Those fans who don´t care, well, they don´t care and don´t need to try to shut down this thread either. The educational effect of seeing such a thread every day on top of the porn pool is a given ;)
I honestly have no idea how many HIV outbreaks due to internal cumshots we need until people finally start to realize something. By the way to compare the risk of unprotected oral to an anal creampie is beyond a joke, but of course you know that already as you have read the thread.
As for the acts the market demands, well, in EVERY other regular job there are rules for those born without common sense who need to learn that there are boundaries to the risks you are allowed to put people at.
Such things should ideally be obligated by law. But even given the case some major companies would band together and make such a database available on their own volition, for example in close collaboration with AIM, than this would already be a step in the right direction. Sure there would be no sanctions against breakaways but at least those performers who´d like to inform themselves about sex partners they shall work with had a chance to do so. And in case the database gives you no information about a particular performer, well, it´s an information too. ;) Ultimately it could even help producers to get a quick overview about the sex acts a model might be available for and shorten booking negotiations with agents.Scipio, you didn't by any chance got confused between shit and chocolate, don't you? For you goes the same as for astroknight, as moderator you should call attention to your fitness for the role by making positive contributions to the site. leaving constructive comments to my threads could be a first step. I think you are clever enough to see how useless the idea to use consumer reviews for such a database really is. I hope it wasn´t just another attempt to provoke my animal rage ;) I think the few minutes I spent at ADT every now and then are well spent, as I already got some positive feedback outside this message board.
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Sep 6 2005 : 1:32AM
Dear straw-man creator/out-of-context quoter,It demonstrates the weakness of your arguments when you have to make up shit like this, which anyone can see I did not advocate, to try to shoot me down.Er no, you're still just as free. And other performers are free to choose whether to work with you. You talk of the "pool" as if it is some sort controlled zone. An AIM test tells you that at the time it was taken the person did not have a detectable infection. No-one should be assuming anything more than that. There should always be full disclosure of any possible risk factors.I said no such thing, I'll thank you not to put words into my mouth. What I said was, it's their choice whether to be in the industry at all if they are uncomfortable with the acts that the market demands. A lot of people in this thread have been implying that performers are somehow coerced by circumstance to do anal creampies to stay in work. If that really was the case, then it would be up to them to take it or leave it. Companies are not obligated to make the porn that the performers would prefer - they want to make what sells. But in fact that's bullshit anyway, there are plenty of performers who don't even do anal, including the most succesful porn star of all, Jenna Jameson.Well then something needs to be done about educating the new starlets better. Thats not an argument for banning the acts.I have no problem with any fans or producers choosing to boycott the act, but all through this thread people have been talking as if what they really want is an enforcable ban. For instance, all the comparisons to safety in industry, which is a matter of law, not of choice.What's beyond a joke is the way you just took "unprotected oral" out of the context of "frequent unprotected oral, anal and vaginal sex with different partners". Weak.
Obviously anal creampies carry a greater risk, but the biggest risk of all is having frequent unprotected sex with multiple partners. Nothing is risky if your partner is not infected. Everything is risky if they are. What I see here is people who are not themselves fans of anal creampies obsessing over the issue because they'd rather blame it on that than face the harsh reality that this can be a dangerous profession.
You can't compare it to health and safety rules in other industries. They exist because no-one should be exposed to unnecessary risk. The only valid comparison I've seen in this thread is motorsport. There the risk is mitigated as much as possible by design of the cars, barriers etc. but not at the cost of excitement otherwise they'd all be limited to 55mph. Likewise, banning an entire sex act clearly does impact on the product, so there is a justification to allow calculated risks by personal choice.
FWIW, I'm not even much of an anal creampie fan. I prefer it in her mouth. I just strongly object to any attempt to use blacklists to dictate producers, performers or fans what they can or can't have in their porn.
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 7:59AM