Lets focus on European nations. The US will sanction a third world country for looking at them cross-eyed. There will always be trade debates and militaristic disagreements. Where has America imposed their will for moral issues? We may have but you need to educate me. And you can't put child porn restrictions on America. That was a global initiative. I don't even think America took the lead on that one. Besides what can America do? The euro is kicking the shit out of the USD.
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Tobin Deactivated User
450 Posts 11/07
Posted - Jul 13 2008 : 5:43PM
The Dutch should keep to making wooden shoes and Heineken. Many adults in the Netherlands believe there is no room in their country's political scene for the recently created Charity, Freedom and Diversity (NVD) party, according to a poll by MijnOpinie.nl. 79 per cent of respondents believe the political organization should be outlawed. Last month, the NVD presented its platform. The party seeks to lower the legal age for sexual relations in the Netherlands from 16 years to 12 years, decriminalize child pornography, bestiality and the consumption of all drugs, and make train travel free. In order to officially take part in the January 2007 legislative election, the NVD requires 570 signatures of support. Party co-founder Ad van den Berg explained his rationale for allowing paedophilia, saying, "A ban just makes children curious." 79 per cent of respondents think the NVD is intolerable. In the January 2003 election, the Christian-Democratic Appeal (CDA) elected 44 lawmakers to the 150-seat Second Chamber. CDA member Jan Peter Balkenende has acted as minister president since July 2002. In early 2003, Balkenende established his second coalition government with the VVD and Democrats 66 (D66).
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jul 13 2008 : 5:50PM
One could argue that the WOT and WOD are moral issues, the latter especially when it comes to punishment vs. rehabilitation and other sociological implications. I don't really have a problem with child porn restrictions; I find it reasonable that venturing into porn has an 18 year age-limit although I have a radically different view of punishment in general than the US mainstream (that's a moral issue), and also wouldn't criminalize possession of what's herein referred to as "teen porn". That potentially self-destructive, if done immaturely, work or action is limited for people below the age of majority is reasonable, that's why there exists an age of majority. I'm not sure what to think of animal porn. That the high risk, and I would assume high proliferation, of animal abuse warrants criminalization is a valid argument. At the same time I don't like the moralizing aspects of it and the slippery slope to a witch-hunt for "deviants" or "perverts" that the commonality is very easily led into. The latter also goes for child porn; although I'm not questioning the criminalization of child abuse I see contours of a witch-hunt for pedophiles that endanger the rights and human dignity of people caught up in it.
The rationality for child porn prohibition is that there was victim at some point in time. It doesn't matter when or where in the world the child was assaulted. It is still a crime. Ownership of child porn helps create the demand for molestation therefore prosecutable. I am not sure what you mean about "witch-hunt for pedophiles". Sound like you do support decriminalization. You either go after participants or you don't.
No I don't support decriminalization. With witch-hunt I'm referring to the demonization and appeal to fear/emotion that is so prevalent in the public discourse, and the callous use of the "sexual predator" label and registering. When the authorities come down on a 17yo like a ton of bricks for having sex with his 14yo girlfriend something isn't right. And programs like that stuff I saw on TV - "Dateline: Catching a Predator" or something like that - for sure isn't right. It's pretty disturbing actually.
I am not sure you can separate criminalization and demonization if sex with minors is considered a serious offense. Do you think they should get a ticket and sent on there way? I also think that laws need more tweaking. Example if a girl takes steps to conceal her age and a reasonable person would think she was over 18, there was no intent to commit a crime. Most of those Dateline episodes are not borderline cases. The perps know the girls are under age and they know that they are committing a crime if they try to meet them. Its hard to feel sorry for anyone caught after season one. By now perps should know that they could be walking into a set-up.
Honestly I think the real problem with To Catch a Predator isn't that it's wrong, its that I don't care. I'm sorry if your such a poor parent that you can't teach your daughter not to invite adult men over for sex when you're not around I'm sorry assuming the child survives the encounter they got what they deserved because stupidity is it's own reward. Not to mention there are plenty of real criminals and for that matter unsafe situations. I would rather those eight cops that pull guns and spear the fat child predator like he's a goddamn murder suspect be cruising the highway so people drive the speed limit. There are better uses for our tax dollars than protecting victims who are literally seeking out their abusers.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jul 14 2008 : 6:10PM
Maybe not, but that's I think is partly due to our respective societies having quite different approaches to criminal care and punishment. Without dwelling too much into things of tangential relevance, the last few minutes of this clip might explain why we look at it differently; I fear an "americanized" approach to prosecution - or should I say persecution - of purported pedophiles on our shores.
Norway huh. How does Norway pay for all the socialistic programs? With oil money. Being the third largest exporter in the world behind Saudi Arabia and Russia. That can buy a lot of health care for an entire population that is 2% of the US. America and Norway are different countries. Most Americans would never sentence a murder to resort. Their murderers and child molesters are free to walk around. Looks like the live in a frathouse. Looks like they have activities such as swimming and horse back riding. One guy committed double homicide with a chain saw. They give him a job cutting wood with a chain saw. The longest sentence possible is 21 years. Victims families must be thrilled.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jul 15 2008 : 1:41AM
No, this is incorrect since the budget is sought balanced excluding oil revenues to avoid inflation and what's popularly called the Dutch Disease. Oil money are put in a future pension fund. But that haven't got anything to do with it, my point was one of differing cultural views when it comes to crime and justice, it has sometimes taken me aback here (on WN&N) just how different. In my book, basic human dignity is an inalienable right not to be taken away even from crime convicts, it is not for any government or court to divest. I fear a media popularized witch-hunt for alleged pedophiles where this right is not only extensively violated, but is done so in a lynching-mob fashion without the process of a fair trial. Once the media exposes you as a pedophile it doesn't matter if you in reality are innocent, your life is pretty much destroyed anyway. And the "Dateline" scheme is very clearly entrapment, which I think is a highly dubious practice. Pedos are so easy to hate, but hate will only lead to grief and bigger problems down the road. For most people I think zoophiles are pretty easy to hate as well. In fact, given the right incitement from the media and in some cases the authorities, all sexual deviants are disturbingly easy for the commonality to hate. Just portray a deviation in the wrong light and the pervert label will come flying along with the depravement of human dignity. It is a slippery slope where before you know it any one fetish can be thrown into the limelight, as the result of an incident or maybe something else. All of a sudden you'll be the one with the lynching-mob on your ass.
^^^Fair enough on the socialism. You are so right we are worlds apart on criminal justice. Sentencing murders to club med? You're max sentence is less than our min. I glad that works in Norway but there is no way that would work in the US. We would be overrun but vigilante justice. I do fear for Norway in the future. I think as the US weakens, Russia is going to get more aggressive towards your resources. They are already doing it with Canada. Sorry for getting off the bestiality debate but the Moore video was very interesting. Moore is not the PR man you want. For some reason I wanted to punch your oil minister in the face.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jul 15 2008 : 1:22PM
Moore is a cartoonist and a provocateur, but although he sketches a caricature more than a real portrait nothing in it is untrue. IIRC there are five such experimental prisons nationwide, where a prisoner can apply to serve the last part of his sentence and get very pro-active assistance in re-establishing a sense of responsibility and meaning in life. And it works wonders, the relapse rates for these prisons are astonishingly low. There are also education possibilities in more conventional prisons and inmates not considered dangerous to society do have access to leave (twelve days a year). To me this is merely a beginning in breaking away from all too established dogma of revenge and retributive justice. Not only is the social dogma of revenge the cause of much of the crime in the first place, but I don't really have any faith in neither the correctional nor the preventive aspect of conventional imprisonment. Prison is more of a school in crime than anything else. Creating a sense of meaning and responsibility, that's what makes sense to me in terms of correctional facilitation, I want much more of this. And to combat crime in the initial phase my faith lies in education, education, education, and the minimization of poverty and disenfranchisement. I curse my government for not moving this forward at a faster rate, there's so much still that needlessly makes life more difficult for people than I think it needs to be, so many institutions that could be improved. Criminal care is merely one, and of limited relevance to me since I have and intend to keep a clean sheet, the one I've always wanted to scraffle is the education system. Without dwelling too much on it I don't fear Russia. If they want the Barents Sea and the polar areas OK, I don't think those are worth fighting over. And the North Sea is off limits unless they do a full-blown invasion of the whole Scandinavian peninsula and the British isles and naaaah, I don't see that happening anytime soon. They have their hands full with Shtokman and their own resources for a long time still anyway. I'm much more concerned about NATO and being forced to take sides in a faux "clash of civilizations" that reactionary right wingers try to instigate to satisfy wet dreams of cultural hegemony. And why do you want to punch the oil minister? [I don't want the blame for this veering off topic]
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 15 2008 : 2:40PM
caroline-NL, Was that just for porn? Or was it for other goods and services?
Lol. Just commenting on how dorky he was. I glad you are happy with your country. I would think most people would kill to live there given all the bennies. Your population is so small. America has 3 times as many illegal aliens as Norway has citizens.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jul 16 2008 : 3:02AM
I didn't see him on there, only some department stooge. Anyway, "happy" is a relative term: Too much social conservatism still, people too inclined to look the other way. the education system could need an overhaul, I would greatly favor neutrality over nato-allegiance, racism and anti-immigrant sentiments seem to be on the rise, politicians are assholes here like everywhere else and winters are too fuckin' dark and long. I'm a social democrat at heart, I don't want to tear up the place, but there is lots of room for improvement. People are people no matter where you go; bound by tradition and fear of change, and corruptible by power. Power is incredibly corruptive. That's an advantage of being small in this world; less power. In a few months I will probably be moving abroad to widen my perspectives, maybe learn a new language, that I think is gonna be fun.
caroline-NL, Was that just for porn? Or was it for other goods and services? You cant read about the details in the press - or only decades later. But in early 1984, when sadly real childporn still wasnt banned in the NL, quite a lot of the mags were shipped to the USA, they threathened the NL with a total embargo and putting the NL on the list of "rogue states". The policy of ultra-liberalism ( sexual anarchy fits it better ) was totally wrong here - of course - but raising the age from (15),16 to 18 isnt ok. I think the threats were more subtile this time, they did it via the Cybercrime Convention.
The hottie on my avatar, Sandra Mae myspace.com/SandraMaexo 179 Posts 4/08
Posted - Oct 1 2008 : 7:10AM
Did anyone find the materials arousing? I accidentally stumbled onto a streaming video site of zoophilia, and i gotta say some of the chicks are pretty decent looking. did they get pay more or something? and also, are there any famous/well known pornstars who might have done zoophilia? from wikipedia In Japan, animal pornography is used to bypass censorship laws, often featuring Japanese and Russian female models performing fellatio on non-human animals, because oral penetration of a non-human penis is not in the scope of Japanese mosaic censor. Sakura Sakurada is an AV idol known to have appeared in animal pornography, specifically in the AV The Dog Game in 2006. Brazil is also a substantial producer of animal pornography, many films featuring "she-males". While primarily underground, there are a number of animal pornography actresses who specialize in bestiality movies. A box-office success of the 1980s, 24 Horas de Sexo Explícito, with Mexican pornstar Juanita Chong featured zoophilia.
Posted - Jul 13 2008 : 5:21PM
