Edited by - BigFerret on 11/17/2003 4:17:15 PM

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Seriously, do I think it will work? Well, although women make up 50% of society the market for this will still be small. I do believe it could be successful because the smaller market is more than offset by the almost total lack of competitive products: better maybe to monopolise a small market than to be lost in a much larger one?
I think the biggest problem will be one of marketing and awareness. Clearly the lines of communication and distribution that are set up for, and work for, male oriented product won't spread the word so effectively to the women of the world. I don't know what the answer to this issue is but I feel that this will dictate the success of the product; the market is out there, reaching it may be another matter.

SNP.

Perfect spelling first time means this thread has not been:-

Edited by - Sir Noel Plum on 11/17/2003 3:42:01 PM

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SNP.

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Hard to offer much commentary about the film, but by your description I have a few thought about the production style.

The "Decades" concept is cute. Vignettes need something to tie them together and drive them forward. Nothing like the actuall passage of time. I think it would be expecially fun to see hot, explicit sex from time periods that don't have a wealth of their own sexually explicit imagery. (Flapper Fucking!) Caveat: Period pieces are hard to produce with sufficient depth. Without enough money or talent it's very easy for art direction to get stretched thin. One solution is to do things that are overtly stylized and let the audience fill in the missing pieces with their imagination.

Multi-camera is the only way to go. Shooting sex is some weird hybrid between shooting sports (how many cameras do they use on an NFL game?) and shooting situation comendy. When those 'moments' happen, you can't repeat them. Hell, most "one-camera" jobs are using multicameras now. (Trafic for example)

Hi-Def? I'm not yet a believer, but I just bought 3 Super16 film cameras, so I might be a little biased. Hi-Def certainly lets you light things in a way a PD-150 won't tolerate. But if the choice was 1 Hi-Def or 3 PD-150, I'd go with the handicam.

As far as marketing goes, I'd guess they had cable deals that put them in the black before they even started casting. If it's a hit, they'll clean up on the "uncensored" director's cut DVD.

Will women buy it? If the guys look like they stepped out of a Herb Ritz calender (and are photographed that way) my wife would certainly give it a chance. One of the things my wife likes about gay smut is that it really knows what's sexually appealing about men. If it looks like "For Women Only" she'll just laugh, and I won't get laid. Her complaint about "straight porn for women" is that it's men's (wrong headed) ideas about what women find sexy about men. (Was that convuluted enough?)

No matter how it turns out, congratulation on having the chance to work on something that's trying a different approach. Sooner or later someone will find something that really works.

-T.C.

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I don't know the exact structure of this company, but it APPEARED on the shoot that there were 3 people in charge - the director (male) and two women who consulted with the director the entire night.

There were also 3 camera operators - of which, 2 of them were women.

I got the impression that this is being driven predominately by women.

Selena Silver

FANS:
Selena Silver Yahoo Group
PRODUCERS/DIRECTORS:
Selena Silver Booking Info
SELENA SILVER ADT "PICK OF THE WEEK"
ADT Pick of the Week

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Where is the market for this? Is there any research that indicates that this is something women want to see/buy/rent?

(aside from whatever anecdotal evidence we can collect from this group here)
2Big

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My wife is less kind. Says she, "The only thing worse than straight porn made by straight men is straight porn made by straight women." As far as she's concerned straight women's minds are just as poisoned as straight men. But you should have seen how her eyes lit up when I put Thick As Thieve on for her.

I will resist any further comment until I have a chance to see the movie, or I can't resist chiming in again.

T.C.

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I don't know if men in the spot light being serviced would appeal to me. I think I'd want something more equal. I'm living my fantasy through this 'on screen' woman.

I'd want to see the woman being worshipped, desired and respected. I guess something of what I imagine the sex scenes in Hollywood films to be if you could actually see it instead of the shadows or the fade to the morning after.

A steamy close-up of his tongue slowly licking up her belly as she arches her back in pleasure...him picking her up, fucking her over the desk some nice close-ups of his cock dipping in and out..hands running all over bodies...kissing afterwards.

For me I want to see it in his eyes the way he looks at her; something approaching awe that this beautiful woman is his, that he's amazed by her sexuality and kinkiness..bla bla bla.

I'm definately curious enough to pick up a copy of this when it's out. A good way to test it would be through the college market, bring the male stars out to sign with their female co-stars. Something for everyone. Also more than likely those girls will end up telling their friends, sisters and mothers about this "female porn". Soccer Mom's would also be prime targets but I don't know how you'd reach them unless OPRAH thought it was interesting. lol!

Anyways, just a few thoughts
Kelly

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This will require good marketing in places not typically known for marketing adult product. Easier said than done.

I wish them luck.

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BUT, if it IS successful, there will be plenty to jump on the bandwagon. The biz ain't exactly known for originality, if something sells many rush to duplicate it.
Case in point - with the phenomenal success of Ass Eaters Unanimous , mark my words, there will be a plethora of rimjob movies flooding the marketplace soon! People are already making inquiries about duplicating my DVD box design.

Kudos to Inpulse for daring to be different. Hope it works out for you.

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As an admittedly non-scientific example, look how 2 men and 1 woman(me) described the first segment in the gonzo film "Virgin Surgeon" from Zero Tolerance, a novices' type movie that is made for men. These are from our reviews posted here on ADT, and I hope it is ok that I quoted from them. This first scene, which we all rated as very good, is with director Mark Davis and a new actress, Tracie Kelly.

From Dreamweaver's review:
We start the DVD with the gorgeous cover girl Tracy Kelly, a tall blonde with an amazing body and adorable face! Sitting on a couch, she has a short interview with the surgeon, Mark Davis, and reveals that her mom dropped her off under the impression this was just a photo shoot! I guess what mother doesn't know won't hurt her.

After some toe sucking and oral on Tracy, she kneels on the floor and performs some superb dick swallowing - easily one of the highlights of the DVD. Mark penetrates her in RC, followed by more fellatio with close-ups of her pretty face, then cowgirl and doggy before Davis lands his popshot on her extended tongue. Great opening scene with an attractive girl!

From Bono-One's Review:
This is the second time I'm seeing Tracy and I like her look a lot better here. You see her pretty face, blond hair, and her boobs are peaking out from underneath her I love cock tank top!! Mark seems excited as he talks with Tracy whose mother dropped her off! Mom thinks she's here to only pose nude, well the doctor will do more than that with this hottie! Soon her nice rack is on full display and standing up her tushy gets shown off as well. Having a seat on the doc's lap the two kiss and he gives her a breast exam with his mouth-- this is a new exciting technique!! Nice, nice, Tracy tastes her own tits, for the first time she tells Mark! It gets even better when they share licking a nipple, damn this drives me nuts!! The next exam involves a thorough licking of her young pussy and Mark eyes this beauty as he's checking her pussy for any defects. Finding none with the tongue he uses his fingers to rapidly test for any last problems and finding none he lets Tracy lick his fingers clean.

Now the Doc needs a little attention to his stethoscope and Tracy happily swallows it! This bj is much better than the one she shot with Vince, perhaps she was having a bad day then? Wow, so much no hands head from her and it looks sexy as hell, great shooting Mike Quasar! On to some sex and a super RC starts us off and the floor view used kicked ass. This fine view extended to the cowgirl position and her bubble butt was sweet to look at and Mark taps it a few times. Just look at the glistening juices on his cock as she slides up and down!! Tracy gets in a great doggie position and Mark slides right in there getting a great rhythm going. Soon he fires a superb load in her mouth and Tracy's cleanup is very good. This scene was done well and really changed my impression on Tracy to a very favorable one and I'd love to see her again.

From my review:
Tracie is a tall blonde, 19 years old, who was last a virgin when 17. She reminds me of Britney Spears, though less fake than the singer. Her mom thinks she is just doing some nude modeling that day (Not!). When asked by Mark, she says that her first sexual experience was just okay, and sex has only gotten a bit better since then.

Well, it got a whole lot better for Tracie with Mark at the helm. Once he helps her off with her clothes, he kisses her all over, moving slowly from her neck down to her toes. When he fingers her intensely, he makes her come several times while she lies on the sofa. Next, it’s time for her to blow him, and even though she’s so young, she gets him hot and bothered in no time. He was getting so excited, that the muscles in his lower body were tensing up, like he was having these mini-orgasms; I thought he might cum right then and there.

They move onto RCG, PTM then CG. All the while, he talks to her tenderly, letting her know what position or angle to take. I liked the way when he has her change positions, he does it slowly, so he doesn’t surprise her, or yank her body around.

Davis next stands her up, grabs her hair, and asks Tracie in his sexy British accent, “How do you feel?” “Good, I want more,” she breathily says. Well, he gives her more, but good, switching to doggie style on the sofa, as he pounds her for a minute or two. He is so excited that he cums in her mouth without jerking off, and he’s practically screaming. Tracie looks mighty satisfied, as well, as a very hot scene comes to an end.

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Now, all three of us have valid points to make, and none of us is more "right" than the others. I was struck by how much more the two men above focused on Tracie's looks, and also on the sequence of positions used. Except for an initial observation about Tracie, I had nothing more to say about how either she or Davis looked. I put a lot more emphasis on what her responses to his moves were, as well as when Davis' showed a lot of pleasure.

As for the cum shot, the two men both remarked on Davis' good aim, while I mentioned that Davis is nearly screaming in ecstasy when he cums. I noticed right off that Davis is superb at bringing Tracie to orgasm in the first few minutes of the segment, but neither man mentions it, either because they didn't think it was worth noting, or it passed them by.

I think the biggest difference between what we noticed is that I comment constantly on the interaction between the couple, how much they talk to each other, how they respond to each other, how they help bring the heat of the scene way up there (along with the good camera work of Mike Quasar). I get the idea, that Dreamweaver and Bono-one think the scene worked because Tracie is HOT, because she is so attractive. Funny, how we all think the scene was great, but interpret the reasons for it differently.

Making porn for "Women" that just turns the typical male equation around, by focusing on the man's looks, and close-ups of his body, and tease footage of him walking around aren't necessarily wrong, but I think they might be missing the mark. I'm in agreement with Tony C.; if this is just men trying to make what they think women want to see, it could still be way off. If the principal investors/owners of Impulse are men, I dare say that is what we are going to get.

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5) The focus doesn't need to be abnormally guy-focused. I want to see pleasure from both.

7) Not everything has to be all hearts and roses kissy-kissy. Vignettes are my favorite style, but it's as hot or hotter for me to see a good set-up of a cheating spouse or an animal-lust one night stand as to see a lovey-dovey thing.

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Edited by - TonyC on 11/17/2003 10:05:36 PM

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By the way, the historical vignette idea is the subject of one of the best classic porn films of the 1970's, Take Off , which used exactly the same idea. Take Off uses the Dorien Grey concept: the central character never ages, but tells his female visitor about his exploits through the century, from the roaring 1920's through the swinging 1960's. That film is interesting because not only is the central concept an easy bridge from one vignette to another, but the vignettes themselves are elaborately mounted spoofs of Hollywood genre films from each era. It would be interesting to know if the creators of Decades know of the older film. {b]Take Off also had the advantage of being shot on 35mm film, which can give definition and ambiance to the period look (and was essential to the Hollywood imitations that Armand Weston, the director, was creating; although I believe he switched to 16mm for the roaring '20's B & W stag film). And yes, Take Off probably had a budget of 500,000 bucks or more (in '70's money) and had a 3-4 week shooting schedule. Those were the days.

I agree with Tony about the cable deal; this sort of porn would be ideal to market in that venue, and since ex-VCA people are at the helm, I would guess they are likely to be on top of that genre. But that also makes me a little suspicious about the sex action in the tape. Vanilla sex action is not synonymous with female viewers, despite what the marketing in this industry seems to insist on. Most women I've spoken to really like The Fashionistas for example--not exactly a "couples" (which means CABLE-READY in the industry, usually) feature. For me, a female oriented gonzo film might have more male eye-candy--as this one does, obviously--but it would also offer some other things that conventional gonzo doesn't, like maybe (1)privileging the female orgasm; (2) placing women in the dominant roles during sex (as Joey Silvera, as a rare exception, likes to do on occasion); and (3) making female sexual desire and curiosity the subject of some of the vignettes. Did you feel any of this was happening during the shoot, Selena?

Ultimately, the sex is what counts. If context, costumes, staging, make-up, etc. all make it more erotic, then great. If not, then it's a waste of time and money, and women viewers aren't fooled by these tricks any more than men are. I would be interested in hearing your response when you see the final product, Selena, and how it compared with what you thought was happening during the shoot.

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If they could see me now, that old gang of mine, eating fancy chow & drinking fancy wine
I'd like those stumble bums to see for a fact the kind of top-drawer, first-rate studs I attract

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I've got two questions for you:

1. Did the cameras stop rolling right after the guys came?

2. What did you mean that the women were told to be quieter, and the men to make noise? Do you mean that the women were told not to shout out obscenities like "I'm a fucking whore"? Or do you mean something else? For that matter, how coarse did the language get during the filming?

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-T.C.

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Believe it or not, in "Rocco Invades Poland" that I recently watched, after he cums in the 2nd scene, the camera kept rolling on, for a good 2 minutes! He talked to the girl, and she answered him, it was incredible.

Seriously, I was curious how much this Decades film gets away from the standard gonzo type formula.

Edited by - Renee on 11/18/2003 11:20:34 AM

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As far as Decades goes, I'm all for trying something new, but I have my doubts that this is truly porn "for women only". There's mention of cumshots, but nothing about female orgasms. Tons of kissing, looking into each other's eyes, all that sounds good. Car sex is hot too, but could you go into more detail about the sex?

Sounds like a fun one anyway, Selena. I'll be looking forward to it.

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As for the scene Renee mentioned in Virgin Surgeon, although it certainly was hot, I didn't get the impression that Tracie had an orgasm either. I had the feeling that she might have gotten close if it hadn't been cut short in order to get to the blowjob. GRRR, it kinda ticked me off, hee hee. I guess everyone sees things differently, even females

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I do not consider an orgasm to be when the woman is caterwauling like a tomcat , but all other physical signs are missing, and I don't consider the over-the-top gushing-type events to be real, unless someone can certify that no turkey basters were present on the set the day of filming.

2. Mark Davis did grab Tracie by the throat, then grabbed her hair. I didn't mention the throat grab because it was brief, and did not choke her. I do realize that it looked a touch malicious.

I've decided to only mention throat holds/ grabs if they go on for more than 2-3 seconds, and if it looks like the man is going to really choke the woman. Whenever I now see a guy's hands going up near a woman's throat, I find myself suffering from PTCD – Post Traumatic Choke Disorder. I'm just sitting there waiting to see how hard he presses down, and I listen to see if she can still talk, or moan or whatever, so I can tell that her airway is not obstructed . The 2 times that I have seen real choking that went on for ~20 seconds, the women became totally silent because no air could pass through their vocal cords, and their faces turned purple (and I mean purple) .

But this PTCD is a bitch , because when I'm watching for choke stress, I'm not watching or enjoying the sex stuff anymore . I'm also running across a lot of hand-on-throat maneuvers, but no pressure is applied so no actual choking occurs, but if I describe everyone of these, than I'll have a review that is nothing but a listing of this stuff.

I hope this answers your concerns.

I also wondered about any real female orgasms in the Decades film, by the way.

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Edited by - lindi on 11/18/2003 7:29:29 PM

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Yes, I would probably buy it.

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Katja

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As for the throat grabbing in VS, it must have been very brief indeed because I confess that I missed it altogether, perhaps because I am usually taking notes at the same time.

However, I'm reviewing a different title right now that has throat grabbing as well as some "light" face slapping.. Not hard, but unmistakable and gratuitous, IMO. When I went back and checked two other reviews, neither male had even mentioned it. Thanks for the warning guys, this totally ruined the scene for me and yes, filled me with PTCD.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that Decades at least won't have this sort of thing (to get back on topic ;-) but I'm also curious if it has any male masturbation scenes. I would think that anyone who has been paying attention to what some women want to see would include some of this.

While I definitely appreciate the focus on the men's bodies, it is not necessary to *hide* the female. I've never heard a female complain about other attractive females in porn, it's just the POV is always on the female and we're lucky to even see the male's face (though I admit this can sometimes be a blessing, hee hee).

Katja, you're right that not all women want to see 'vanilla' sex, but I was under the impression that Decades is trying to give people something new and different, which I can appreciate.

I hope I don't sound like I'm picking this apart sight unseen, as I am truly excited by the concept. Bravo, and about time. I just think we need more details, damnit, details!

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i love to love
but my baby just wants to dance

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But any porn producer/director who reads the posts from women porn fans here at ADT would be hard pressed to find this sentiment. Making assumptions like this can be dangerous, and expensive.

I hope the above scene at least caught a side-ways view of Selena and this man as well, not just from the front. It's the interaction between the couple that's important - it least to me. In fact, I don't particularly care what positions, sex acts or looks either person has, as long as it all looks consensual and real, and no one looks distressed.

The only example I can think of, of a sex scene with a male porn star, in which the action was filmed with a woman's perspective in mind, was not in a porn film at all. It is the sex scene in "Romance" with Rocco Siffredi. This is a French art film, written and directed by Catherine Breillat. When I look back at what I wrote in my ADT review, this is what I noticed in his encounter with Marie, the female lead:

This five minute scene took five hours to rehearse and film, and it shows. The camera work and lighting all combine to enhance the encounter between the two characters, rather than simply provide what is necessary to record the scene. Rocco in particular looks terrific, with the lighting making him appear leaner and more muscular than in his own films; the camera brings out how tiger-like his moves are, as it pans up and down his body (The camera also catches Marie and her reactions to him). Even after he comes, and lies back down next to Marie, he just looks delectable.

This is from a film in which a woman controlled the entire process, from getting the financing, writing the script, directing all the actors as well as the cinematographer, and the editing. In the above scene, there was none of the usual "male porn star gets to do whatever he wants" business. There is no doubt that Ms. Breillat is firmly in control. And Siffredi must have enjoyed the experience, because he is starring in another of her films, due out in early 2004.

I think the people at Impulse would do well to have a look at this movie.

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I will give "Decades" a shot if the reviews are positive.

Edited by - f5 on 11/19/2003 11:40:06 AM

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I agree with the idea that more info is needed on this "Decades" project. Besides the emphasize on male performers instead of female performers, I don't see many new elements at all, whether it be the vignette like structure, the fantasy time period theme or the stylistic make up.




skronker said:
"She provokes my imagination!"

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-T.C.

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And I always need more data. Especially when forming an opinion, or, my good grief, a judgement.

btw, you must have read some of my old siglines, like:

"If you want some truth, watch the film yourself so you can make up your own mind."
or
"Forming an opinion is easy. Formulating an opinion can be difficult and requires talent. Trying to develop an explanation is always difficult and requires knowledge."
or
"I have doubts about almost everything and therefor I don't like to express my 'opinion' at all. I would rather stick to 'facts', they are problematic enough."
or
"Meaning is relative and selective, 'knowledge' is not. 'Meaning' lends itself to debate and is limitless in scope. 'Knowledge' has to be researched and is limited in scope."
or
"There can't be any useful 'deconstruction' before a thorough 'reconstruction'."
or
"'Grand Theories' can't handle salient nuances very well and can often be easily criticized on simple empirical grounds."

Ah, the good old days.



mission said:
"A woman is a woman. They want sex yet they don't want to show it."

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I haven't seen women ask for sex to be all soft focused and 'lite,' and I haven't seen any ask for more period costumes, and I haven't seen them ask to see and hear the woman as little as possible.

Even women who make porn 'for women' seem to guess what women like, rather than making porn that is what they themselves find erotic. When are we going to have women just make what turns them on?

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-T.C.

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I LOVED reading these responses though. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts - I was VERY interested in them. And, I will try to answer the questions the best I can and clear up the details I do know.

I should say first (what I am sure you already know) that I am not speaking FOR Inpulse Pictures nor do I have any intimate knowledge about the project beyond the day I spend observing and performing on their set. I may even be wrong about some things although I only reported here the facts as they were explained to us. (We GOTTA get someone from Inpulse to jump in this discussion!)

I DID, however, find their concept to be interesting enough bring to the ADT community and find out what you thought about it because I was still trying to figure out what I thought about it.

I guess when I start directing one day and I get the question over and over again about what directors and movies influenced my style the most I will have to include ADT posters in that category! LOL

OK- Here goes...

THE FINANCIAL REALITY OF DECADES
As far as the market and the financial success of the project- I am sure they are going to be in the black. They were a top-notch group who SO obviously had so much experience at what they were doing and had such a large budget that someone gave it approval knowing the financials of it all. YES, there was absolutely a cable deal involved (which can be incredibly lucrative).

We did shoot both "soft-core" and "hardcore" (you only shoot soft-core if the movie is being sold to cable) AND we recorded little cable blurbs (posing and saying "You are watching Inpulse TV", etc.). They are obviously going to do very well financially there.

Just so you know (probably already do, but oh, well - for any newbies! LOL) the main difference with soft-core is that you can't show cocks, penetration, etc. Depending on the director you might shoot the entire soft-core scene first and then shoot the hardcore. Others shoot it together.

(Example: as we do the "BJ" the director will yell "soft!" and I will cover the cock with my hands and let my hair flow around blocking the view and go through the motions until he yells "hard!" and then, of course, I show the cock entirely. Same goes for all the sex.)

Many gonzo directors do NOT shoot any soft-core - their product is strictly for hardcore DVD sales.

In "Decades" , we shot the soft-core mixed in with the hardcore. So the director let us and the camera persons know if we were shooting hard or soft and then we would adjust our positions and they would change their angles.

Cable deal is a given. They will definitely make money; I guess I am more interested on will the cable deals keep coming because women are tuning to watch? Will the DVD sales go well? Who will buy it? Where will the buy it?

IS THERE REALLY ANYTHING NEW IN PORN?

Walter Burns said that besides the emphasis on the male performer instead of the female performer, he didn't see many new elements at all.

Tom Byron said that you gotta give them props from trying something new and if it is successful there will be plenty to jump on the bandwagon.

I have recently read long-time directors Wanker Wang and Jimmy D both write on their websites about how they can't believe how out of hand it has gotten with first-time directors bragging about "never done before in the history of porn", etc. while they contend that there are only 3 holes to fuck and they have probably all been fucked in every way possible.

I think it is pretty hard to actually do something "never done in porn" in the actual sex in a film. No, you aren't going to invent a new sex act for god's sake! Sex is sex. Period. If you shoot a position or act - it has been shot a million times.

And, lets face it - there are quite a number of directors and several studios who equally turning out top-notch porn movies. To suggest that one studio has the entire market on quality porn is silly (which is why I love reading directors and studio heads here on ADT who understand that and give props to their fellow companies or directors for their great products).

By the way - that is just as true for Hollywood movies. Come on... haven't most basic plots ALL been done to death? You probably won't invent a NEVER BEFORE SEEN plot, so you are left with focusing on telling an old story in brand-new way.

It is like that in the porn world- if all the sex acts and positions are the same why do certain directors have a style that marks them? Why do certain studios turn out solid, top-notch porn and other studios turn out total crap?

Well, beyond the fact that they just be doing a technically poor job (camerawork, lighting, sound, editing, duplication, etc.) it is all about your "emphasis" - the decisions a director makes that determines his/hers product niche (who are shooting for?), it's signature style (what is unique about how they shoot it?), what he/she focuses on when they shoot and later when they edit, and finally, the packaging and marketing efforts.

So, Walter quite correctly points out that the "newness" here is an EMPAHSIS not the vigenettes, costumes, etc. - particularly an emphasis on trying to specifically appeal to the female audience. And, because I know how Tom Byron thinks I KNOW he was focusing on exactly the same thing - their chosen target audience, how they think they will shoot and edit for that audience, and how they will package and sell it.

Their chosen emphasis - "porn for women".

WHAT DO WOMEN WANT?

This seemed to be the common thread that ran through this discussion.

2Big said: "I don't understand what porn for women is...Is there any research that indicates that this is something women want?"

Lindi asked: "Where do they get their ideas of what women want to see?"

Lazerus wondered: "Girls sit through lots of porn with their husbands and boyfriends which they probably find tedious or unerotic. The question is would guys buys and watch these videos with their girlfriends or wives? How gender specific is porn anyway?"

I don’t know the answer to the question did Inpulse Pictures do market research on this or not. I don’t know where they developed their ideas of what women want in porn. It is possible they are just making what turns them on; it is possible they have actually carefully studied this. I am starting to get curious enough I want to call and interview them about this! Or, we could get our professional writer Skronker to do a whole piece on this after interviewing them.

I love the question Lazerus posed about how gender specific porn is. Rene mentioned something very interesting when she posed the idea that women pay more attention to the way the couple interacts. Btw, Rene- we own the DVD of the film "Romance" and highly recommend it. LOVE that movie. We originally saw it in the only theater in Australia that was allowed to show it and knew it would be purchase when it came out on DVD.

But, how can you reconcile what dumblond , Rene , and lindi list as what they like and do not like in porn with that of another female like Director Mason of Platinum X Pictures likes and dislikes?

How about Katja Kassin's response (loved you joining this thread, Katja – I am a HUGE fan of yours!!!) about the fact that she likes "gonzo - 1 on 1, good looking stud with a big dick that leads the girl through the scene and gives the girls what a good slut deserves"?

I feel like I am in Katja's camp on this one - look a the directors and studios I keep working with and the list of my favorite male talent to work with: Michael Stefano, Brandon Iron, Manuel Ferrara, Steve Holmes, Dick Deleware, Tony Tedischi, Ben English, Benjamin Bratt... the list could keep going and going - but they all have traits in common: they are strong, aggressive performers who lead and carry the scene freeing me up to really let go and perform.

Is there really a simple formula to making porn that "women want"? OR ARE WOMEN’S TASTES JUST AS VARIED AS MEN'S???

I think porn is really just about taste - just like mainstream movies or music or food.

I LAUGH when I read diehards state that the ONLY way to do a porn scene is "X" or that it is only acceptable if "Y" happens, etc. I even lose a little respect when I see two camps degrade into a flame war each stating that "if (just an example) the girl's shoes are on in the scene then it is 100% wrong and no one should make or buy that porn" vs the other camp saying that "if the girls shoes are off in the scene then it is 100% wrong and no one should make or buy that porn".

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! There is no RIGHT or WRONG. There is only what is right for you. We are discussing taste.

Your taste dictates what you enjoy and what you don't. My taste may be the same as yours or may be different than yours. We are all entitled to feel or think a certain way. Human beings are allowed to be unique and different.

I have so MUCH respect for people who can appreciate other people's tastes.

Tom Byron is a perfect example of this. He has no patience for "pretty filmmaking" in porn. He laughs at that and says "I just shoot porn". His style is straightforward – he picks a talented male and female and says "go". He uses long shots and then edits simply. He is basic meat and potatoes porn. A director he hired, loves, and FULLY supports is Guy Capo who is the opposite kind of director as Tom. Guy does elaborate planning for his movies, works out scripts and locations. He cares about every angle and shot. He painstakingly edits and turns out creative, elaborate porn. If Tom Byron is the "meat and potatoes of porn", Guy Capo is the "French duck and Chardonnay" of porn. (Now there is a Walter Burns quote that Guy will yell at me for! LOL) Tom would die before he shot and edited like Guy, but he gets what Guy is doing, he appreciates it, and he wants it in his company.

Porn is just about personal taste.

So the $64 million dollar question here I guess is: is there a collective grouping to the varied tastes of individual women that is different from the collective grouping of the varied tastes of individual men?

I bet there is.

Has Inpulse Pictures figured it out?

ON TO YOUR SCENE QUESTIONS...

Hiding the Females
That may have been badly explained in my scene description. The focus was very careful to highlight the male and yes, there were times when the male body was in front of us - while in my normal role they would always have the female in front of the male. They really worked hard to show off the guys, but they didn't pretend as if we didn't exist.

They carefully did our makeup and hair and made us as beautiful as our genre would let us appear. LOL They had multiple cameras with one on a dolly on a curved track which curved around our set. They shot us from all angles and looks the female is always in the shot - just not the focus of the shot. And, yes they did shoot us from the side and the front.

The Talking and Language of the Scene
It wasn’t that I didn’t make ANY noise. I did. I can’t help that – I am noisemaker. LOL It was just a little quieter (perhaps more natural to some women who aren't noisemakers?) than I would be on a "male targeted" set. They heavily encouraged the males to make more noise.

There was NO language. There was no "talking" or words in the entire scene. It was just natural moaning and noises.

Male & Female Interaction in the Scene
Tremendous focus on this. For example, during the scene opening the two guys are washing their car and us two girls come in to get them to stop paying attention to the car and start paying attention to us: they did not even record sound (I assume it will have music playing on the video during this). It was all about us flirting and teasing WITHOUT WORDS. Our body language, or eyes, or expressions, or playful touch, or tug of war with the polishing cloth... We physically had to seduce the man and I thought they shot this very well. The men were supposed to resists us at first and then gradually give in.

During the scene, there was a huge emphasis on us looking into each other's eyes, undressing each other, kissing and kissing and more kissing. They had specific shots they wanted to get with the girl's squeezing his butt or running our hands down his back.

The even shot the female oral sex from the Female POV so when he goes down us the camera is behind our head showing our view- which showed of his body and what he was doing to us.

The SEX
Kris Slater and I had the following in our scene: Initial Flirting, Handjob, Blowjob (when they shot the BJ, they wanted to avoid deep-throating, etc. - they wanted a lot of licking and flicking of the cock with the tongue - worshiping it really), Pussy-Licking, Missionary Sex Standing, Doggie Sex Standing, Spoon Sex Standing, and Cumshot (on my breasts).

All the sex was shot with us bent over this great car.

Sergio and Lainey were on a chair by the jukebox next to us. (One camera shooting us had them in the background. Then there was another just on them and another just on us shooting almost gonzo style. I felt so bad for those camera operators because those High Def cameras are HUGE!!!). I don’t know their whole list, but I know they did a lot of doggie with her bent over the chair.

From what I could tell - Kris and I performed at a slower, more romantic pacing and Sergio and Lainey were at a more feverish pace.

I think that is kind of cool having the two contrasting styles in the same shots.

The Cumshots
We did both the FIP (Fake Internal Pop) which is used for the soft-core and the Real pop shot used for the hardcore. In both the soft and hardcore the woman had an orgasm first and then the man did.

In soft-core (since it is fake and you aren’t allowed to show it), the man fakes coming inside you. In the hardcore, they came on our breasts.

After the fake cumshot for soft-core there was cuddling and kissing. After the real cumshot, there was just some gazing up in his eyes. (I guess guys don't like to cuddle girls with cum on their breasts. LOL)

Male Masturbation

No, there wasn't any. I know there are a lot of male talent who wouldn’t do it on film - some refuse to even have any fully naked pictures taken if there is no girl in the scene. The reason for that is that in the past naked pictures of straight males have ended up on gay porn boxes.

Right now there is a divisive split in the porn industry when it comes to straight male talent that has or has just be rumored to have done gay porn. There are some female talent who refuse to work with male talent who has done gay porn because the gay porn community does not do HIV/STD testing like the straight community does.

There was one very high profile case just recently where a very high profile girl did not do a scene for a very prominent adult studio and was sent home because she would not work with a male talent who had done gay porn.

With a company like Inpulse (because of their roots in VCA) you would expect that you would not have to worry about that. But, the model releases specifically says that the person who owns our footage can use it in ANY WAY they choose. You don't have to worry about contracts with people you know and trust, but you do have to worry about them for who may own that footage when they people you know and trust are gone.

I was surprised how careful the guys were on our set since they were being "objectived" as SNP put it the way that usually only girls or gay males are. I had never really thought about that issue before.

I can see their point since (stupidly) if a picture of them ended up on a gay porn box their earning potential could be severely affected.

I am going to be very careful here and avoid getting into that too much since I don’t want a flame war about gay porn or the silly way our society still deals with straight vs. gay to start in a thread about porn for women! LOL

SO WHAT?
It appears from the feedback that many people would be interested to see how this movie ends up. Obviously, we are discussing a concept right now since none of us have seen it. But, I like their idea. I like what I saw the day we filmed. I can appreciate porn made for a specific niche done well – even if that is not the niche I prefer myself.

I will be very curious to see what this looks like when it is edited and produced.

I think it is sounding like maybe women collectively do look for things in porn differently than perhaps men do collectively, but that individual women may have as many differences in taste as individual men do.

Do you think that is the case?

Or do you think women as whole have fewer distinct "fetishes" than men?

Selena Silver

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Fantastic stuff Selena, contris like this are what makes this such a cracking forum!

SNP.

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"As far as I can see, solely based on the informaton that has been given by Selena in the first post of this thread, I don't see many new elements at this moment, whether it be the vignette like structure, the fantasy time period theme or the stylistic make up. The only new element is the emphasize on male performers instead of female performers. That in itself can be a pretty significance change."

I have a hard time finding porn equivalents for these two mechanism of innovation within cinema, basically because I strongely believe that the formal structure of Hollywood cinema is very different than the formal structure of porn. The semantic field of porn is way too narrow in comparison with 'mainstream' cinema. The problem of repetition within the formal structure of porn is therefor much greater.
I hesitate at this moment to draw film historic conclusions about this, simply because the history of porn is not seriously researched at all. Therefor, I will leave it here, for the moment. I can't really engage in a discussion about this the coming weeks anyway.



lindi said:
"I'm pretty sure that you can sit in a meat locker putting ice cubes in the ass of somebody who's dressed like a cow, whilst eating pizza and perhaps spanking her with a frozen waffle, but that would be way off-topic for this thread about Jules Jordan leaving Evil Angel."

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In contrast, in the movie "Romance" when Rocco comes (inside the woman's body, it was probably simulated, though he has stated in interviews it was not) the camera is squarely on his face for a good minute, catching what would normally be of interest to a female viewer. The camera lingers on him both during the build-up and afterwards. This is the difference that I am talking about.

It will be interesting to see how the Decades film handles this issue, in both the versions they put out.

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In the hardcore version, it sounds like it is the woman who gazes up into the man's eyes after he cums, and then the scene ends (Correct me if I'm wrong). The director could have been more creative in ending the segment, and I'll give examples from some Rocco films, in all of which he cums on the woman's face or her body:

1. Rocco lifts the woman up off the floor and gazes into her eyes (Initiations 7, 1st sc.; Way to Love, last sc.)

2. Rocco lifts the woman up off the floor and talks to her (Rocco invades Poland, 2nd sc.)

3. Rocco lays down next to the woman on a bed, kisses her full on the mouth and talks to her (Buda, last sc.)

4. Rocco kneels down and kisses the woman, caresses her face (The bodyguard, last sc., my favorite)

5. Rocco kneels down and compliments the woman sweetly. (Initiations 7, 3rd sc.)

Granted, he doesn't do this in every scene he's in; I'd estimate that it happens about 15-20% of the time, and it occurs when he's especially attracted to the woman he is paired with. But, if Rocco can manage to, well, interact nicely with certain actresses in his films, that are geared towards a hardcore male audience - I mean, he is definitely not Mr. Romantic or Mr. Softcore - then I would think that a director making a film for women to watch could be more inventive in how he manages the ending of a scene, after the real cumshot.

And Rocco is not squeamish about kissing a woman that he has just cum all over, so I would hope that other actors can keep their squeamishness under control, enough to touch the actresses they are performing with.

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I carefully re-read the thread to see what camps might be forming and where the thread might be degrading into a flame war, and I saw no such disagreement anywhere. The points made by myself, Renee, and dumblonde (the parties you mentioned)were: natural noises, enjoyment fron all parties, not all hearts and roses, not an opposite of male porn, Hollywood quality, female orgasms, and a lack of choking. You didn't solicit comments from industry members but from fans. Even so, I can see no big war erupting here over any of that.

What is it that you are shouting "ENOUGH ALREADY!!! about?

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Ah, the difficulty of writing on the web! LOL

I wasn't commenting on a war in our thread; our thread was the perfect example of people discussing the difference in their tastes in an intelligent way. :)

I was using our thread as proof that we are really just talking about taste in porn and trying to point out how silly other "flame wars" can be. Seems like there have been alot of that silliness in OTHER threads lately. :)

I went back and re-read my thread trying to figure out how I gave the impression I was talking about ours and couldn't completely connect the dots, but I apologize if you thought I was talking about you. :)

It is obvious on ADT that there are VERY distinct fetishes and groups amongst the men - the example I used was the girl having the shoes on during the shoot or the shoot off.
(I was kinda trying to gently scold the people who demand that their fetish is the only right way without actually calling anyone out personally)

I haven't seen as much discussion about the difference in tastes amongst women. That is why this thread fascinated me. It seems many people talk about "porn for women" as if that is only one fetish category; yet this thread cleary indicated that women have their own tastes, fetishes, and "camps" as well.

It would be really interesting to figure out how many distinct camps their were among men compared to that number among women. Are we equally split or do we share more in commen?

Does that help clarify? :)

Selena Silver

FANS:
Selena Silver Yahoo Group
PRODUCERS/DIRECTORS:
Selena Silver Booking Info
SELENA SILVER ADT "PICK OF THE WEEK"
ADT Pick of the Week

[Link]