Edited cos I got distracted and couldn't get my words in order and...

Edited by - Loraine on 8/2/2004 2:11:14 AM

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DenverDon

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Thanks Loraine, you Aussies are on top of things

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btw, I must be gay or a woman... or pussyfied. I am mightily turned on by CFNM.




BigFerret said:
"Big government (especially meddlesome in Canada), I doubt, can grow weed as good as some stoner farmer living in Vancouver or Victoria."

Edited by - Walter Burns on 8/2/2004 10:10:26 AM

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I've been to two male strip shows, both were packed, and the women get totally out of control.

As far as research on potential female porn viewers, I would assume that Inpulse had done some or wouldn't have taken such a risk, and I'd be interested to hear what their findings were. The only thing that Sandra Styles mentioned was "11,000 videos per year and none for women, we felt it was about time." (or something like that)

@Only, thanks for your input, sounds good!

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This observation from someone who earns her livelihood from
producing adult films that people are actually willing to
pay for is more valuable then a host of studies in peer
reviewed journals in understanding the differences between
men and women with regard to their interests in viewing adult material.

Dumblonde's observation that depictions of nude males are
actually geared towards gay men is also a very important
consideration about the nature of the male brain,straight
or gay,and its attraction to a VARIETY of potential sexual
partners.

For a "credible" source of information about what I've been
saying,try reading The Evolution of Desire by David Buss and
The Evolution of Human Sexuality by Donald Symons.They review many studies that have been conducted with regard
to male-female differences in response to erotic imagery.

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That's great that Impulse finally got back to you with info about their movies. I've looked into renting Velvet Thrust from adultdvdempire, but it says they'll be a long wait for now, at least 3 weeks. Maybe there is an interest in these kinds of movies, after all.

Playgirl is an odd duck, that's for sure. It's never been clear to me if the magazine is meant for straight women, or gay men, or is trying to do both. The last one I looked at, about 6 months ago, did have a pictorial of a naked man and woman, in softcore sex poses, which lead me to believe they still care somewhat about the female market. But all the other spreads of naked men could have been out of any gay men's magazine.

I've often felt that Playgirl has simply been a converse copy of Playboy, more than anything else.

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I've run across lots of porn focused internet sites that are by/for women, though not many with original porn content.

On the topic of Playgirl, the advertising, articles and stories are still aimed at women.

Edited by - RobHammer on 8/3/2004 2:02:51 AM

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You also wrote about Playgirl.
If Playgirl is the gender-switch version of Playboy in regards to photos, I frankly do not understand why anybody - women or gay men - should buy it.
I mean Playboy's full frontal nudity is ridiculous at best. Their graphic department must have a "pussy vanisher"-plugin in photoshop.
I cringe every time, when they have a photo where the posture does not hide the pubic region, because you get the impression the women have their vulva sawn tight.
Playboy style photos of men, i.e. bare-breasted to nude with no depiction of the penis, one is likely to find in every mainstream magazines.

A good start would be to rewrite the texts on covers.
I don't think I exaggerate a lot here; take the usual reverse gang bang: "Lucky stallion Dick McPrick has the the chance to fuck the brains out of zillions of chicks." e.g., and compare it with the cover of a usual gangbang title: "Worthless slut and euro-whore Pussy Mammanda gets abused and her holes filled by our proven gang of $porn-company."
Even being a man, I am not attracted by a description like this.

All DS-aspects aside I think both male and female consumers could live with a cover text like this for a gangbang flick:

"Sexual predator Pussy Mammanda likes to be treated as a slut and fucktoy. She makes full use of our proven gang of studs from $porn-company to fulfill this filthy fantasy of having the chance to get a bunch of dicks - for you naughty boys and girls out there. Watch Pussy Mammanda and our gang of men how they mutually exhaust each other sexually."

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-T.C.

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Most current porn is like Law & Order, based on a formula that works for an existing market. I know I'd like to see more risk taking.

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I already messed this up a little with the PlayGirl post I made, but when PlayGirl first came out it was nude guys only, without a girl in the picture. It was supposedly promoted to the ladies market. So having a couple in the picture was not necessary.

I know that I had a gf at the time and since she was embarassed to be seen buying PlayGirl, I bought the issues for her. She wanted to see it and read it.

DenverDon

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From Rob's Male Porn Star link:

It's the same with that San Jose Mercury newspaper article, which I usually take with a grain of salt, as they always tend to be overly optimistic and don't really do their homework. They even painted Jewel as someone who made porn for women, yet she had something quite different to say in this thread, lol.

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This one issue had three pictorials featuring naked men alone, and two pictorials, each featuring a naked man and woman, one pair which was white, the other was a black woman and a white man. These were softcore photos, though there is one where the woman is licking the man's balls (Vince Vouyer would approve). There is also a pictorial of naked-from-the-waist-up men with some chest hair, and amateur photos that men have sent in to the magazine. All the professional models were very physically fit, good-looking, in the 20-35 year old range.

There are erotica stories (like Penthouse Forum, but told from a woman's point-of-view). Two advice columns about sex-related stuff. One article for women about taking a more active role during sex, though the focus was on increasing the man's pleasure, nothing about the woman's; it is definitately written for someone possessing a vagina. There was also an article about sexy moments in mainstream movies. The editorial staff was mostly lists women's names.

The odd thing about the magazine are the ads. There are several for sex toys, though none from the businesses that cater towards women, like Good Vibrations, Toys in Babeland, or the Xandria Collection. There are no ads for products that women typically use, like makeup, perfume, clothes, healthy foods, shoes, vitamins, even tampons or birth control pills. There are ads for 900 phone lines, for talking to 'SEXY NAKED MEN', and ads for video companies, a lot of which look to carry gay porn videos, though some straight films as well. This is way different from Playboy or Penthouse, which are filled with ads for cars, watches, men's shoes, men's clothes, men's cologne, and so on.

I know one of the reasons I feel that I'm looking at a gay men's magazine is the way the men are presented; they could be on the boxcover of a gay porn film (not that there's anything wrong with that). Or perhaps it just the only place one would regularly see a solo man posing naked is for a gay porn shoot, so when I see photos like the one's in Playgirl, I think - gay porn.

England, I can tell you one things for certain - I don't want to look at naked women. I'm bored to tears during the obligatory tease scenes in porn films, and I have no interest in watching a porn actress spend countless minutes caressing her body. The porn scenes I've enjoyed the most have been when there was a real connection between the man and woman (all too rare).

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I'd much rather look at a good looking guy or a couple having a good time.

Just to pick up on a comment a while back about the review of Velvet Thrust and the producer's intention...was I seeing things when I read that there is shot of a guy spraying the windscreen of a car with cum?

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A) Looks (Nice Face/Body or/and Big Cock)
B) Personality(Sense of Humor or Confidence or both)
C) Attractive Career
D) Sexual Talent (The Great Fucker)
E) Dancing Skills
F) Intelligence
G) And many more!

On the other hand women have ONE means of creating initial lust in men.
A) Looks (All sizes and Shapes)

Since the adult industry has many other means at their disposal to create a male sex symbol, it should easier to market men than women as sex symbols in porn as it is in Hollywood. With all these ways of marketing male sex appeal to women, it is amazing why female porn stars are marketed far more than their male counterparts.

P.S. Perhaps these companies should read more books on female erotic fantasy in order to have porn plots geared more toward women. Or maybe they should ask female performers what types of guys turn them on.

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Remember,women are 50 pecent of the population.That's a 50
percent possible increase in monthly sales for an enterpris-
ing magazine publisher if he could successefuly market visual erotica to women.Think of the huge fortunes just
waiting to be made.That nobody has gotten rich in taking
this path should lead one to conclude that the female market
simply does not exist.

Will there always be a SMALL pecentage of women who do have
an interest in visual erotica?Of course,just as there are
music lovers who cherish the string quartets of Bartok and
Schoenberg.A VERY SMALL coterie,indeed.

If you continue to deny the facts of biology and evolution,
nothing that you observe will ever make real sense to you.

Edited by - don juan on 8/4/2004 6:15:27 PM

Edited by - don juan on 8/4/2004 11:09:19 PM

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Ok, so lets have women in charge and things will change right. Well most of the female directors/owners/co-owners are bisexual(jewel,tricia,bella,jenna,jill kelly,veronica hart, and many others i am sure. Based on interviews i have read). Thus the films they make are still aimed at men( and couples) with women as the 'object of desire' and are rarely, in my opinion, different from those directed by men.(this is not a criticism of them or their films, just an observation.)

So where are the female hetero owners/directors in pornography?(films and mags), that want to show men as 'objects of desire' and that it is ok to 'gaze' at men and that it is not slutty or dirty to do so. There are women out there who are like this arent there?, so where are they?. Until women like this come to the fore then i see no change. Even playgirl is now run by gay men and the film decades was directed by a man.( at least someone is doing something different regardless of gender)

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-T.C.

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In the Playgirl, there is also a half page ad for AdamMale, which is the gay-oriented side of the Adam & Eve company. This is surely for the gay men who read Playgirl. It appears that the readership of Playgirl is some mix of straight women and gay men, but who knows what proportion they are to each other.

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BeateUhse Annual Report

Sharon Austen, Anne Summers and many others including a couple of the big players here in Australia are actively going after the female consumer dollar. They obviously believe a market exists.

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In order for an ancestral women to raise a child successfully,she
required a minimum of about 4 years-9 months of gestation
and about 3 years of breast feeding,which renders her infer-
tal through that whole period.She simply cannot conceive again during this time.

Her husband, however,is utterly capable of fathering another
child during this same interval,either through a brief liaison or by acquiring a second wife,which was always a
possibility during our evolutionary history.

Because of these possibilities,men evolved a psyche that is
always on the lookout for new sexual partners and because
women's reproductive value is closely tied to her age-she
can only bear a limited number of children during her life-time-signs of youth and fertility are extremely important
criteria in judgments of female attractiveness.

This is the reason that depictions of young,healthy and
sexually receptive women,as typically portrayed in porn,have
such a powerful effect on the male brain;the mind is tricked into believing that a huge fitness benefit has just
appeared-the chance to impregnate a fertile woman.

Obviously,none of these tendencies would have served to benefit women's reproductive success during that same history;while she was carrying or nursing a child,mating
with 1,10 or 100 other men would have increased her total
number of descendents by 0.

This is the reason women are indifferent to pornography and
the visual display of nude males.However,because finding the
RIGHT mate was of vital concern to ancestral females,they
are by nature quite attentive to aspects of mating that center around the intricacies of mate selection and which are usually depicted in a literary form-romance fiction.

It is for these reasons that a search for "women's porn" is,
unfortunately, a futile hunting after the unicorn.

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A word of warning don't try the breast feeding as contraception trick at home.

I should like to say that given my time again, should I have had the talent of Miss Violet Gordon Woodhouse that I too would have liked to have lived with four husbands...at the same time...who knows there may still be opportunity?

R.T.: “Mrs. Woodhouse’s personal life is said to have been a little unusual. Can you comment on this, or must we wait for the book? Can you describe her personality?”

J.D.-H.: “Violet inspired a sort of reverence in many people, both male and female. This was partly because of her music but also because of her exquisite appearance (she was tiny, barely 5 feet 1 inch, with a beautiful figure) and her strong personality.

The more I discovered about Violet, the more I came to realize that the spell-binding effect she had on men was equaled by her effect on women.

Both sexes were obsessed by her. Her marriage to Gordon Woodhouse was unconsummated. She had no children. But five years after her marriage she selected three more men to come and live together with her in the same house with her husband. From the age of thirty, in 1901, she lived in what one can only call a ménage á cinq . This set-up continued for decades until Violet’s death, or until the men died (one in the first World War, one in the second). As to how Violet managed to achieve living in close harmony with four men whom she kept constantly by her side, you will have to read my book.

The most remarkable part of the whole story is not so much that everyone got on so well together (my father asked one of the men, Lord Barrington, at the end of his life, whether there had ever been any strife. ‘On one occasion only,’ he said, ‘we had a tremendous row over a cricket match’ ) but that they all stayed together from the moment they formed their bond until the day each one died. I have never before heard of a woman or a man in history achieving this sort of arrangement—in a predominantly Christian culture—living with four attachments over a period of forty years.”

Violet

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Also, my wife thoroughly enjoys porn, though not the DAP, cream-pie crap, which even I don't enjoy. She loves to see beautiful bodies both men & women enjoying each other.

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This intermingling of "day-to-day language" and "scientific language" and the fact that only single observations, which are not seen into a broader context and compared with other observations, make discussions with him a little bit annoying. It is the same as here.

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its different & creative, i'll surely give it that

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its a question of more women doing porn so the offer would be far more diverse

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i would very worried if someone claims what i like and what don´t only because i´m a man. I think it has nothing to do with freedom and real diversity, which doesn´t need to be proved

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I'm off to look for three more husbands...

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Females:
* 31% insisted they had never been aroused by thinking about males or sexual relations with them.
* 69% of females reported erotic fantasies about males, (p. 665, FEMALE).
* 64% of the female sample used fantasy as part of masturbation, (p. 164, Female).
* Some 2% of females in the sample had reached orgasm by fantasizing erotic situations (without any tactile stimulation), (p. 163, FEMALE).

The problem with this is that it doesn't separate nature from nurture. Given 50 years of change in women's attitudes toward sex I can't say it would be my choice for proof.

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There is no nurture here;with all the 'liberation' and the
tons of erotic material available today to virtually anyone,
the lack of female interest bespeaks NATURE.

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[...] We also attempted to determine whether men and women differed in how easily they became aroused by sexually explicit films. We found that they did not.
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Early-phase physiological response patterns to psychosexual stimuli: comparison of male and female patterns.
Rubinsky,-H-J; Eckerman,-D-A; Rubinsky,-E-W; Hoover,-C-R. Arch-Sex-Behav. 1987 Feb; 16(1): 45-56

The onset and sequential changes of psychosexual arousal for male and female were compared. During an erotic film presentation, genital hemodynamic and groin skin temperature measures of sexual arousal recorded moderate to large increases for both sexes. A sequential analysis revealed strikingly similar male-female response patterns for both the genital and groin measures of arousal. Thus, the commonly held view that males typically show a greater sexual responsivity to visual erotic stimuli than do females was not supported.

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200 women were randomly divided into two groups of 100.

The women from the first group of 100 were individually shown a collection of sexualiy explicit photos and asked to report the effect, if any, on their level of sexual arrousal.

The second were subjected to the same routine, except women in the second group believed that they were conected to a lie detector when reporting the effect on their arrousal.

The women who believed they were connected to a lie detector reported significantly high levels of sex arrousal.

Hmmm.

Perhaps women have learned that under most circumstances it's better to keep their true sexual feelings to themselves. It wouldn't be the first time that members of a vulnerable and oppressed segment of society smiled and lied to their masters' faces.

-T.C.

Edited by - TonyC on 8/6/2004 3:58:36 PM

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They decided to carry out the survey three ways: 1 have a live researcher interview respondants. 2 Have a live researcher hand a paper quesionaire to respondants, leave the room and let person fill out paper on their own, which they would have to sign with their name (giving privacy). 3 Have a live researcher give out the paper quesionaire, leave the room, and let person fill out paper on their own, then not have to sign it, and drop it into a sealed box (privacy and anonymity).

The male respondants didn't differ much in reported masturbation frequency, whichever method was used to gather the information. However, with method 1, the female masturbation frequency was 1/3 that of the men. By the time they used method 3, the frequency reported was 90% that of men.

Which goes to show, if you give women privacy and anonymity, you will get more of the truth out of them about their sexual lives, since they don't have to worry about anyone judging them, or that the information they provide with somehow be traced back to them.

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