"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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I adore women. I am attracted by every erotic inch of their body, by their smell, their feel, by their very feminine personality. When I watch a starlet performing sexual acts on screen I am fantasizing about being there, (me or many "me"s) conquering progressively all of her love gates. I think you get the meaning...So the only thing that kept me watching porn all these years were those little erotic (and yes you can also call them "romantic") details that exist in conjection with intensive action in many films of today. When these details will cease to exist in adult creations that will be the day I will stop watching porn.

I will never, never understand the woman = meathole supporters, but I acknowledge their existance.

However, I will try to exceed this subject and go beyond... resetting the next questiion which arises from the title.

How can you, porn directors and producers, male and female performers, deliver the promising passion in a hardcore scene?
How easy is that to be done?
How can you fix the chemistry between the performers and raise the heat in a sex scene?
Does involve "acting" as a neseccary element in a starlet's skills when something is not as fine as you planned to?

Sorry to ask so many question, but is important for this thread's conclusion. You see... I realize that there are so many obsticles a porn scene "author" or participant must face. Language barriers, cold women, boring men, physical, psychological and sentimental problems, sexual and ethical taboo's and many many other things that I believe they have to be surpassed in order to shoot an erotic scene.

PS. Gee..That "me" thing reminds me of Austin Powers..

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What is the key for a good studio atmosphere?

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Some of us, the viewers, care about quality porn and I believe passion, in the degree that it is unveiled in some adult movies, is an essential key for this purpose.

sign

Reverse it...and play it again!

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so anyway, we are on this quest and are reviewing all of the AVN award nominee movies figuring if "the academy" thinks they are good enough to nominate, we should take a look at those directors and pornstars. so this afternoon dicknjane went to the movies and reviewed Mike John's award nominee for Best Anal Themed Series, Elastic Assholes #3. The first scene is a 3 on 1 with John Strong, Manuel Ferrara, and Michael Stefano doing Marie Luv. we watched the whole scene, 31 minutes of throat gagging, mascara running, skull fucking, ass gaping, ass running sex that totally destroyed the white fabric couch in somebody's beautiful house. there were brown stains everywhere all over that couch at the end of 31 minutes. it didn't look to me like anyone of the people in the scene had any fun, particularly Marie who was one fine looking, sexy woman before the scene started and one sad looking, unexciting puppy who left brown stains everywhere by the time it ended. she tried her best to make it seem like she was enjoying the scene but she didn't sell dicknjane.

i'm sure this type porn has great appeal or we wouldn't keep on seeing it. so where do we go from here? Mike, congrats on your nomination, but that was not sex, it was circus sex at best which won't give dicknjane any orgasms. our review will produce winners and losers from our perspective, but sadly this post will likely drive more sales.

Edited by - dicknjane on 1/25/2006 6:25:16 PM

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stop eating while on adt...Stop eating while on adt...Stop eating while on adt...Stop eating while on adt...Stop eating while on adt......

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I made threesomebody puke with a recent post of a video link. I thought if you have seen an egg laying chicken do its thing than its no problem, but it was.

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dicknjnae will be watching your posts with great interest. like you we have a sense of humor about all of these things but when it cums to our orgasms every day we are deadly serious and brown stains aren't in our fantasies.

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you need to get that video and report back. i'm a died in the wool pervert and jane is very perverted. assholes being turned inside out into a close-up camera shot with stuff squirting and oozing out of them .... nope i'm not that perverted.

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It seems the extreme anal acts often do recieve awards... The biggest gape, the longest hardest assfucking... no wonder women don't want to do anal...

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Edited by - Endless Loop on 1/28/2006 5:50:34 AM

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dicknjane are fairly advanced perverts who enjoy gonzo not features. we have launched on an AVN video nominee review which we hope will raise our "porn satisfaction index". we are trying to find the answers to the questions above and really don't have them yet. we're beginning to think the answers lie in some combination of the right studios, the right directors, the right themes and the right porn stars (women and men). we know what turns us on when we see it. the trick is picking it out by looking at boxcovers, screen shots, scene indexes and trailers and we like about half of what we pick out to watch.

recently, we watched 4 videos which all had Courtney Cummz in them. Courtney is great looking, does it all and seems to be in lots of videos. we gave two thumbs up to two of them (Trophy Whores, Just Fuckin' 3) and two thumbs down to the other two (Baker's Dozen #6, Elastic Assholes #3). three of the 4 received AVN award nominations and the best of the 4, Trophy Whores, did not so go figure. we're thinking it's more the theme and director than the porn stars that determine the degree of "romance" or "violent sexual content" that we see in the gonzo porn we watch.

can anybody out there suggest how we can improve our gonzo video selection methodology? do you have "romantic gonzo director" recommendations? do you have "romantic gonzo video" recommendations?

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Maybe Mike Quasar can tell you something about it.

Edited by - de25ge on 1/26/2006 12:14:17 PM

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thnx for the recommendation. i agree with your comments on Mark Davis. i put Virgin Surgeon in the queue. it looks like Mark's directorial efforts were short lived as he has only 4 dvd's (2003/2004) on the DVD Empire web site.

Virgin Surgeon has a theme that we have found works for us. Mark did a scene in Vouyer 6 with Nikki Brantz and Tricia Deveroux which worked pretty good for us. Buck Adams and Randy Spears have done lots of "teacher" scenes we have enjoyed too. Don't rule out anal for us .... i may not get into Jane's, butt it works for mental stimulation as long as it's not a double, triple or gaper maker.

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The only true movie on anal I've seen was this instructional type of gonzo "Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex For Women". And I think the scene with Chloe having those multiple orgasms in a row is superb. And the whole theme is introduced in a gentle way, even to performers who never did this.

The rest of the movies I've seen had just occasional anal scenes or someone who made a g-spot stimulation through the other opening.

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we first watched anal scenes 10 years ago in European videos we found very stimulating because anal was just part of some very stimulating sex scenes which were explicit, but tasteful (if that makes sense). we're still watching those videos but are worried our casette player will die. now we find that we can't get gonzo DVD's that don't have anal and that's ok with us. what's not ok is all the ass gaping, pussy gaping, choking, face slapping, double penetrations that seem to be all the rage and are all done to not with the women by the men. it does not appear to be exciting to the women at all from what we can gather and therefore does not meet our ideas about what "romantic porn" is.

we're pretty sure there are directors out there today who do satisfy our ideas about "romantic porn". we like John Leslie, Jonni Darkko, Jake Malone, Chris Streams, Tyrone Shuz, Justin Slayer, Tanya Hyde to name a few. we are hoping to add more directors and their series to our favorites list and at the same time sort out directors who clearly are more interested and focused on doing the circus side-show sex acts mentioned above. we hope and believe our tastes in porn are near the center of the total porn audience out there. if our tastes are in the center of the universe, these "romantic porn directors" will be easy to identify. if not "romance in porn" is either dead or dying.

thnx again for your help.

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I have watched Michael Stefano's videos and either love them or hate them ... he's one of my 60% "romantic directors". I have seen Fresh New Faces 6 and like that series a lot. Have seen Teens Revealed 5 and hate that series a lot. Can't explain why on either, but love in my case generally has to do my perception its "romantic porn" and hate with my perception its "abusive, denigrating porn". Because you reminded me I will order "Ultimate Asses 5" a title which sounds good to an ass-man and one of Michael's series I haven't seen. As I think about a guy like Stefano, he's talented and he probably tries to cover the gamut from "romantic porn" to as "rough and nasty as it gets porn" in his various series so he is appealing to the tastes of a varied porn audience. The more I read threads here, the more I discover how different each of our tastes truly are. I think I'm getting closer to answers that fit dicknjane. Juha said "The subject line says it all." While that's true for us too, the first problem was figuring out what "romance in porn" was and was not for us and now we're into figuring out how to find it. I'm pretty sure if juha is a woman (don't know), romance in porn to her is not the same as romance in porn to me. Certainly dicknjane have differing opinions. Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts ... you have helped and so did juha by bringing it up.

Edited by - dicknjane on 1/27/2006 11:09:30 AM

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Edited by - de25ge on 1/28/2006 12:57:43 AM

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...

Edited by - de25ge on 1/28/2006 1:11:10 AM

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Steve Holmes

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MelissaP.

Edited by - melpster on 1/28/2006 7:15:03 AM

Edited by - melpster on 1/28/2006 7:15:21 AM

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dicknjane have decided "romance" is the stuff we see that causes our brains to fantasize about stuff resulting in very pleasurable convulsions and a flowing of our "romantic" juices.

now if that's an acceptable definition, the question is who can wank off while peering into a 3" gape and examining the upper colon, not even my urologist i suspect, but at least he is well paid to do it???

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dicknjane like your scenes too. we think you got the best actor award for your ability to make anal sex look very romantic. we'd be interested in your definition of "romance" and where you draw the line on all of this???

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Anal Cum Addicts does have a 3some with Marie Luv, Steve Holmes, and Michael Stefano, if I remember correctly (Big Luv out to Marie Luv, BTW). But it also has that marvelous 1-on-1 with Steve and Christie as well. I know because I must have watched that scene so many times the day I bought it that I don't even think that the chapter-select button even works on that scene on my disk any longer!

For the record, I myself have never been a big fan of choking or slapping in sex, though that's just in my personal sex life. I like rough sex on occasion. But that's just it. There are so many amazing variations to the practice of sex that I've never been able to understand why some people only want to see one thing done or have one thing happen to them over and over each time they fuck in order to get off.

Romance, of course, is subjective. But is it subjective to the viewer of the porn or the performers? Take Mr. Holmes, for example. It has been my understanding that he will choke or slap a woman in his films if this is something that she herself enjoys. Otherwise he'd be doing it to every woman that he works with, and as many of Mr. Holmes' films that I have seen (and I have seen every one of his self-produced gonzos) this has not always been the case, or else he'd insist on doing it in every scene with every single girl, no matter what her personal tastes. I'm certain that even if or when he fucks any of these woman off-camera, in total privacy, he'd slap and choke them if they desired it just as well. I find the idea of a man giving a woman want she wants sexually and enjoying making her happy, just as much as a woman giving to a man in the very same aspect, very romantic. In private, they don't need me to be there to tell them that it's romantic. But it still is. That is, if they are enjoying themselves and each other.

But although I don't care for being choked or slapped in my own sex life, I can very easily enjoy watching it onscreen if I know that it is done because both parties want it. I realize that there are very likely directors out there who may try to either force or coerce a girl into doing some things that either she may not like or may just tolerate enough to get through the scene, and I admit I can't help but think a lot about that whenever I am watching porn for any reason, especially when searching for particular elements of romantic titillation. One of the reasons why Steve Holmes is my favorite is that despite how rough he can be, I get an indescribable sense of safety with him, that he's one of those directors who is not going to make a woman do anything on camera (or off) that she wouldn't want to do. That he might, in fact, work with her in learning what it is that does actually get her off, and using it in the scene. I get the feeling he knows that pleasing a woman on camera is bound to make for great chemistry, great sex, and even great romance.

I guess I'm saying that what I find romantic is anything done in the heat of passion between two consenting adults. Even if it's not something I'd do personally. I always get seriously turned on seeing two other people get seriously turned on by each other.

MelissaP.

Edited by - melpster on 1/28/2006 11:08:57 AM

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dicknjane couldn't agree more with you on your last statement. we are perverted, but more so in the porn we watch than the sex we practice. sometimes when we see a beautiful woman like Marie Luv with tears running down her cheeks, gagging and choking with Steve ramming his 10" down past her tonsils and then she is shown in a close-up with her asshole turned inside out trying to push out and show us the cum that was just deposited; not only is it something we don't intend to try at home, its also not something we find erotic. it sounds like your tastes in porn run just a smidge filthier than ours which is what makes the porn world go around. what I think we agree on is that romance is all about people doing things to one another that turn them on, drive them wild and give them orgasms that leave them totally spent and breathless.

Edited by - dicknjane on 1/28/2006 11:37:55 AM

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Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

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no offense meant... it is hard to tell sometimes and i luv your Avatar ... it speaks volumes. dicknjane are a couple who as near as i can tell share many of your values. also we appreciate your thread on "romance in porn" it has helped us to think the whole issue through from our own perspective and listen to others who both share our values and have different ideas. i guess you would make lots of money betting most posters here are men and while women may be looking in they are not as likely to share what they are thinking about all of this as men are. Jane, for example, is an avid reader; but unlike Dick will think twice and post once or not at all. thanks for clearing up the confusion ... we watch your posts with great interest... they are thought provoking. geez a sensitive guy who is a romantic at heart ... what a novel idea for a pornster ... i hope it catches on and influences the porn we have to select from. thanks

Edited by - dicknjane on 1/28/2006 2:07:42 PM

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Edited by - ordell on 1/28/2006 3:32:05 PM

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I don't know how close you could ever get to the original request, of TLC in porn. The fact is, the industry has changed in a way and I wonder if the door back is permanently closed.

I think much of the problem lies with the men in the business. Their attitude is atrocious, period. Look at the banner ad on XPT. "Whores degraded daily." Then there's TT Boy. Erik Everhard. Max. Skeeter. What kind of a woman would any of them land if they had to leave porn, get a real job, and land a girlfriend, not a girl paid to fuck them?

Back in the early 90s, when I was active on RAME, Randy West was the popular punching bag. He was old, looked it, had a dick the size of a thumb and you could get a better pop shot out of an eye dropped. But the few girls who were on the net back then said they loved working with him. He treated them well, helped nervous girls, and was kind overall. Plus they weren't sore after they were done. :) They had equally glowing comments about guys like Steve Drake, Mike Horner, Tom and Peter. Old school behind the camera guys like Steve Hirsch and Bud Lee were equally liked by the girls.

I don't hear that kind of conversation any more. I don't hear that said about the studs, except maybe for Steve Holmes. The men in this industry have atrocious, mysogynistic attitudes. And look at what is being put out, look at the titles of these movies. I'd be embarrassed to stand in line at a video store to rent these movies, to say nothing of what happens on them.

I never really developer the attitude that girls are too pretty to be in porn until recently, when I saw what was being done to them. Even when I first saw Nikki Dial, my first instinct was a career change. :) But when I see Sunny Lane, all I think is 'God I hate seeing someone that cute getting mauled by these animals.' If she was working with guys like Horner, Drake, Byron and Eric Edwards, I wouldn't have that reaction.

("sure, you just wanna bang her," says the peanut gallery. Of course I do, but that's besides the point.)

All you porn people who say no one watches porn for the guys got it half right. You fail to consider that the men should also not be repellent. Of course, if that were the case, Ron Jeremy's career would have ended in 1982. But one thing a lot of guys don't like is seeing a hot girl with a guy they detest. Has anyone noticed that as many men loathe Kevin Federline as women? Ron Jeremy was a turn off. So was West. But I never wanted to take a baseball bat to their skull like some of these reprobates the industry hires.

Just in case someone reading this can't figure it out, I am speaking for myself, and my porn, like my regular movies, have to be a vicarious experience. It has to be something I'd want to do. And I would not throat fuck girls until they vomited. Duh.

At the same time, we got too many girls in the biz willing to DO that shit. If Max came along in 1984, is there a soul who thinks Ginger, Christy, Traci, Vanessa Del Rio or Marilyn Chambers would EVER work for him? Course not. The industry was smaller, which lended to an exclusivity. When you got away from the big studios, the quality of girls went off a cliff. The flood of porn means the bar is set a lot lower, and there are enough girls out there, either desperate or stupid enough to allow themselves to be degraded.

This leads to a secondary problem; the industry isn't making stars any more. When I say "Christy," you know who I'm talking about. The glut of porn has reduced girls to anonymous body parts. The last real star we had was Tera, and she totally fucked that up, didn't she? I'm only now hearing about Rayveness, which is mostly my fault for shunning modern porn for so long. But read her bio on her web site. She admits she never achieved stardom and I have to wonder how someone with a body like that could fail to hit top shelf after a decade in the biz.

Anyway... I think it's time for a Logan's Run-type rule in the business for the men. Two years and you're out. Go get a real job and try picking up a woman for once in your life rather than having them handed to you.

But I don't know what the industry can do to attract men who genuinely love the female sex. I sure don't see much of it these days.

(I feel better now)

Edited by - ordell on 1/28/2006 4:22:38 PM

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STARS:
I sympathise about the ladies. Look at that Taylor St. Clair. Look at how pretty she is, model looks, yet she'll appear in Lizzy Borden's Cocktails 2 and get totally degraded. This was one of the movies that got Extreme raided by the FBI I believe. That it was so gross. yet to be fair, Taylor has a twisted side as she is into the domination scene.

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Jackson Katz is a great speaker on the subject of men objectifying women. I don't necessarily agree with everything he had to say in his video TOUGH GUISE but he made some points on how men treat women. I don't hold tight about his criticizing of mens' aggression. Males are naturally agressive I find and there's nothing wrong with that so long as it's channelled the right way. But for more Jackson:

jk

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Most performers do so many scenes that it easily becomes a routine. But than there is this special moments with a special partner where you really feel it. You get carried away, forget the cameras and fall in love.

That has nothing to do with the sexual act you are performing. It's the feeling.

Steve Holmes

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You said a lot and sent me to the nearest dictionary to find "misogyny" which Webster defines as "a hatred of women". "Misogyny" as I now understand the word is too strong. I believe it is more a "lack of respect" for the women in porn by the men which leads to an expectation that they will do whatever they ask them to and pretend they like it to please the men and cause them to like them and give them more work.

the jane part of dicknjane has some very strong feelings regarding your comments on how successful the porn guys would be in getting women outside of porn. jane feels the women are unbelievably gorgeous and the men are frogs. jane wants guys she can fantasize about and mentally put herself into a sexual situation with. she finds some of the porn guys extremely visually distracting. they come onto the set looking sloppy, they aren't clean shaven, they don't look sexy, some have never been in a tanning salon or gym. if the women ever, ever looked like that they would not get anywhere near a set. women in porn are scrubbed, buff, tanned, clean looking, sexy. its a tough sell for dick to convince jane that that's just the way it is.

we can go to Vivid or Wicked and the standards for men are different and they are sexy looking, shaved, clean, but we are bored silly with the content of all the beautiful people there and always come back to gonzo.

so its a dilemma for dicknjane and we're out there searching around for the "romance in porn". we are not discouraged; we are frankly hopeful, optimistic. we are making good progress in figuring out where we can find what we are looking for. when we get there, our money goes with us and every porn fan has to go on that same search. they need to decide what they want first and then just figure out how to find it. "it" is out there today and hopefully if we talk about "it" enough here there will be more of "it" tomorrow. Hey, Oprah came out and admitted she made a mistake in recommending James Frey's "A Million Pieces" so it is possible for the buying public to move even the haughtiest people in entertainment business.

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Have you had your head buried in porn so long you cannot see a non-porn analogy? I deliberately went outside porn for a real world example.

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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