It seems to me that the IAFD is changing its culture, so I'm not sure what your point is. We should prevent one culture from changing so studying another culture is easier?
I've tried to read those links because I was curious but I can read only the abstract, and some of those I don't even know what they have to do with what we are saying like the number 7 ("From an extended contact hypothesis (ECH ) framework, mass‐media portrayals of interracial relationships may encourage positive attitudes toward such relationships" I'm not sure what this has to do with what we are saying). So if you want to confute the idea that a personal sexual choice doesn't harm other people you should elaborate it yourself, or giving something that I can actually read. I'm honestly curious about these things.
Naw. I'm not trying to win you over. Those articles are examples of the evidence base I use to form my opinions over the hack theories of people on this message board.
Citation 7 is just evidence that shows that attitudes about engaging in interracial dating can be shaped by the environment. If passive feedback like mass media is influencing people's attitudes about dating outside their race, why would more active feedback through social media or direct interpersonal challenges to "racial preference" be futile?
If you want to satisfy your curiosity, you can get the articles through your nearest library as a proxy.
well that could have been more useful than removing a tag. If you want to try to convince people just saying "because it's bad" doesn't work.but you're actually saying that to date people because of their color is racist. What do you want exactly, blind dates that are really blind dates made in the dark so that skin color can't influence the decision?that sounds like: "I don't have real arguments so I put some links to something that you can't even read". For someone who wants to change things, it seems that you don't really want to change even the opinion of a single person. And I'm someone who actually don't have problems to change his opinions if I see convincing logic arguments.
Ummn, do you have a problem with people dating outside their race? I never got the sense you did so what am I trying to change there?
What I am somewhat concerned about reading is that bigotry couched in the language of "racial preference" is ingrained enough where it's futile to challenge or the notion that rationalising "racial preference" does not harm the marginalised groups. That I disagree with, but all of this doesn't really doesn't really have much to do with the IR tag in the database.
I thought we were disagreeing about the fact that sexual preference could harm anybody. I said that to me, the problem of racism is when discrimination leads to violation of rights and freedom of other people, and that personal preferences and kinks about skin color have anything that is wrong since those things don't actually harm anybody else. And then you said that you disagree sending a lot of links, and I thought "ok, let's see" and it was stuff that I'm not able to read.I think it does have a lot to do with the IR tag, since you're saying that having a kink for different skin colors is (unlike a lot of other kinks) wrong because it basically means racism, even to the extreme of sharing the idea of Demi Sutra that the twitter couple of a black and white women are racists towards their own ethnicity, instead of seeing a couple of persons who appreciate each other, a thing that to me is honestly just ridiculous.
What is ridiculous in the Demi Sutra example is the belief that people can't be racist against their own race in selecting their partners.It was pretty obvious to me. It was pretty obvious to Demi. We are far apart on how we perceive racism if you perceive "my wife is black and openly would never sleep with a black man. She finds no attraction" and "I'm not attracted to white women. Just don't find the appeal" to be merely a confirmation that they appreciate each other. I don't know what tag you want that to be ticked under, but that doesn't have to do with the database.
MOD: Do you own the rights, or have the rights to post that couple's photo (I am assuming not due to all the watermarks all over it). If not, why would you post it, that is a clear violation of the image police you agreed to when you uploaded it.
To be honest, I started using the "performed with" tab more frequently as my tastes became more laser-focused and a lot of fellow brothas in the industry annoy me to no end, but there was something that was brought up that hasn't been addressed yet. What of all the Black male talent that did a handful of scenes and never had a picture uploaded? You would never know the scene was IR unless it's tagged. Can you at least go through the archives and change their pictures to show that they are Black? Maybe too politically incorrect? Or too much work? If so, as a Black man who has used IAFD for many years, I would be happy to start a thread here and/or on other Black male porn forums and comb through the archives to update the missing pictures by at bare minimum taking screencaps of the Black men involved in the scenes. Or if there is a way I can send these in to remedy this situation? I don't care about having "power," I only want to find a solution to this problem.
Lastly, I know it will probably fall on deaf ears because you've made up your mind already and don't seem remotely interested in actually having a worthwhile conversation about this (you're doing what's "best for us" once again after all), I wholeheartedly agree with those that have stated the solution of changing the IR tag to that of BMWF and adding other tags to the other pairings (BFWM, AFWM, AFBM, etc). I actually have discussed this on another porn forum quite a bit. This would actually be an improvement over just Black male/White female = IR and nothing else. Again, I would be happy to help if I can and would do a certain number of movies/scenes a day if you needed it. Not sure how any of that works. I know I've submitted corrections in the past when scenes weren't labelled properly or were lacking labels. I am very trustworthy and many here can attest that I never abused my powers as moderator on another porn forum in the past.
Also, while this would not be as helpful for me as a Black man that isn't into other pairings as much (and some White women like misspornUSA that you are ignoring as well), but you could also re-add a "Mixed Pairings" tag or something of a similar name (whatever politically correct name you would be comfortable using, I don't care) and have it encompass all of the IR pairings for anyone that wants to see everything except same-same.
Sorry, I keep adding to this post, but I also am in the same boat with the other Black men who posted in this thread that do not take offense or care about the IR label or tag. No point really in posting this here since you don't care anyways and just think of us as "fringe" (even though I literally moderated a huge site of Black men who feel the same as well as know a lot of fellow brothas IRL who feel the same, but anecdotal, so whatever). Just thought I'd add my voice into the mix.
^^^ You aren't wrong. If you flipped the script and it was a Black man and a White woman, I doubt there would be as much uproar. To be honest, I feel as though Demi Sutra has a bit of a personal bias being a Black woman and there not being an equivalent to BLACKED for Black women. She singled them out in her war against "racism" against us even though her incident involving Kayden Kross and Manuel Ferrara happened on DEEPER. I could see if she had targeted Vixen Media Group, but nope, went straight after BLACKED for some reason. But yes, you are correct. There is nothing wrong with "race mixing" and it's a beautiful thing. Doesn't mean those involved are racist at all against their own race or harbor "self-hate" like has been stated. You like what you like - simple as that. People need to just understand this, but somehow it's hard to comprehend when it comes to race and race only. Someone can be into scat, golden showers, humiliation, etc but as soon as race comes up, nope, that's not possible and is "racist." It's comical.
Gunslinger, when you submit a correction to a specific folder, you can send a link to a headshot that we can freely use. If we do not know what the performer looks like, we normally have to screencap it from a scene that we end up having to pay for. Sending us these headshots reduces a lot of legwork that has to be done.
Remember we are a staff of volunteer hobbyists and do not have the time or desire to do the amount of work to address all of the gaps in the database. The volunteers work on what they want to work on. Further, only one of us has the ability to code to make changes to the front or back end of the database.
Speaking as a user, the most ideal scenario is not to create tags for every possible racial pairing but to make improvements to the "paired as" function where you can limit the performers shown to specific attributes like hair colour, eye colour, and yes even ethnicity. This would be valuable for searches for a scene where you can only remember certain things about the other performer or even manipulate it so that you would only browse through a certain group of people. But I don't know how difficult or time consuming that is to code.
Well we can study when something happened from studying a database's entries , we can study when and how a racist cultures slowing changes by studying the amount of something on a database, the lack of it, the raise of it, the disappearance of it . How many performers do that , when they do that , at what point of their career, how it would or won't affect their careers , what's the impact on the market and everything else related. For example if they WILL NOT put the tag anymore from now on, it's a significant data in their database , it shows the change and when it happened and makes it easier to link it to an event or a specific turning point in history.
If you remove the IR tag comletely all of the changes around racism, will be lost , there would be no difference between the data of thirty years ago ad now , a database isn't just a catalog it collects data for any kind of purpose , if you remove the data it collects its purpose is lost
BTW I find many issues here about what's racist and what's not incredible , it's not just the skin color that makes someone attractive it just adds up to the mixture.
I like redheads , I mean instant hard on , I'm not joking ,plus most redheads that I met couldn't tan, a milky skin is part of their being, the milkier the better , especially if she's freckled with green eyes.
No other woman can get the same sexual response my body gives to just the view of a ginger lady
Am I racist because of that?
Yes I do find attractive many more women of any kind but none gets the same attention a redhead would get.
I also don't like fat assed or vulgar talking ladies no matter the race, if a hot black woman begins to talk in a vulgar way I'd turn my head elsewhere , not because she's but because she's vulgar it doesn't matter whether she's white or black I don't like those end of story, same goes with fat asses I know many who like those, well I don't I'm not putting names here but believe me many famous or infamous either porn or mainstream ladies who happen to sport such feature do absolutely nothing to me I'd need to be thoroughly stimulated just to be ready.
Their skin has nothing to do with that
So trying to find or impose racist issues over sexual reactions is beyond me
Yikes...the world has finally gone mad...now we remove tags...i hope this won't hit Europe as well...but seeing how in Germany they just put up Lenin's statue, i'd say we are done for... Well...it was fun while it lasted. Hail hydra! The commies finally won this...
In Europe we didn't even have that tag , it's a recent thing created for marketing purposes, if we remove it I don't think it'd be any big deal .
How do we did before ? I don't know, we never felt the urge to label it . I remember those "Big Willy" Movies on the shelves of some stores back them , they were along with any other movie either in the GB area if any , the big dick area if any or even side by side with Rocco Movies as he worked with him a lot in his early days as Omar or Omar Williams along with Franco Roccaforte . He also starred in several "amateur" series and appeared a lot in many British productions.
None of them were ever labeled IR , there wasn't even an IR area at the stores I used to go to , they appeared around 2010 some before some later
It was more likely to find a "Mandingo" angle or a "Big Willy" sector than an Interracial sector
^+^^ I dunno, i buy my stuff online. But mainly it's g/g stuff. The concept itself bugs me. Everyone seems to be cought in the heap of the moment and is going "full hyporcite" mode... What was fun? The idea that you could go to a paysite and filter your porn movies and get what you like. How are you supposed to get anything if there are no tags?!?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 27 2020 : 4:06PM
^ There are still tags to find BM/WF they just aren't using the IR tag exclusively to mean BM/WF anymore. That meaning of the term was specific to the US and its racial politics to begin with.
I find extremely troubling the notion that a woman is racist, and should be labeled as such, if she is not attracted to men of a certain race. Apparently, you can be discriminatory on the basis of body type, hair color, tanned skin, penis size, etc. and that's all fine... but not skin color.
Because Black Lives Matter.
Frankly, that is an insane philosophy, and you've gone too far.
Sex is a privilege. Nobody has the right to fuck anybody else. My ability to have sex with a woman is contingent upon her approval and acceptance of me. I could rape her and take what I want by force, but we recognize why that is wrong as a society and we have a process to deal with people who do it. (Not harshly enough, in my opinion, but the process exists nevertheless.)
In the case of women who refuse to have sex with black men, you have absolutely no ethical grounds to brand her as a racist for that choice, nor for voicing it publicly. Clearly, such a choice is discriminatory, as women tend to be when selecting their sexual partners, but it is not racist.
"But wait," I hear you interject from the back of the auditorium, "she is excluding people as potential sexual partners on the basis of their race! Clearly, this is racially-motivated discrimination. Is that not the definition of the word racism?"
No, little grasshopper, it isn't! You willfully ignore, or perhaps reject, the primacy of individual rights. It's really quite simple. No black man has ever been denied any righhs because a woman refused to have sex with him. Sex is a privilege, not a right, and a woman has the freedom to reject suitors on any basis. Period. Sexual attraction is complex, and the mere fact that a woman is not attracted to black men does not mean she is racist against black people. You don't even know her reasoning! Does she object to black men on some kind of cultural basis, or is she simply unattracted to dark skin, in the same way that some women are unattracted to pasty white nerds who can't tan?
I refuse to support, in any way, the notion that a woman is a racist because she is selective about her sexual partners. I refuse to support the notion that August Ames' story is a slippery slope argument. You people are absolutely fucking insane.
Ideology is never more important than the rights of the individual. People are not defined by the tribes society has assigned for them arbitrarily. That's the bottom line. I won't stand quietly as women are shamed for exercising their individual right to be discriminatory about who gets to have sex with them, and I declare openly that I think you are a piece of shit excuse for a human being if you accept that as a "necessary evil" of enforcing your ideology.
Absolutely not. No more of this insanity.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 6/27/2020 5:08:36 PM
Good to see you're sexist also, ya dashing white knight apologist for racism. The right to sexual autonomy does not guarantee the right to silence criticism.
I'm sexist too? How's that? Because I stated the fact that women are discriminatory in their selection of sexual partners?
Guess what, everybody is, including men, but it is accurate to say that women are moreso and I don't feel that it is sexist to acknowledge factual differences between the sexes which are also accepted by mainstream biologists and anthropologists.
Anyway, who said anything about silencing criticism? You're free to say whatever you want. That doesn't mean you have ethical grounds to do so. A person's sexual preferences indicate nothing about their racial prejudices. The obligation to serve a black man at a restaurant (for example) is a very different thing from the deeply personal choice to have sex with him, and sexual selection indicates nothing about a person's racial prejudices.
Again: Equality of outcome cannot be legislated or forced upon society by any other means. Every attempt to do so historically has ended in disaster.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 6/27/2020 6:03:47 PM
You questioned whether I have ever read a scientific study on the topic. I replied, so now you're just moving the goalposts and resorting to ad hominem because it's easier than formulating a real counter-argument.
Evilpineapples is 100% correct. Most people don't realize how popular interracial porn is, among the Indian community. Black porn performers act as analogs. In a recent presentation by pornhub's content managers, they stated that people search for content most similar to themselves eg. People from france search for french, spanish people search for espanol, etc. Not a lot of indian porn out there, so they also look for black and interracial.
And what is the racist narrative IAFD alludes to? If it's the fear of being 'attacked' by a black person, that is blatantly wrong. Almost all the interracial porn I have ever seen, shows a white woman enjoying, seeking, and glorifying sex with a black gentleman. Wasn't there a story about the actress from Behind The Green Door, crying, because sex was so good?
BLACKED also did an informal market analysis where they compared racially-charged messaging and imagery (eg. raw animalistic sex and domination) vs positive stereotypes (big penis, muscles, etc) and found that customers responded to the positive stereotypes. Therefore, the customers of interracial porn may not be seeking gratification from any differences or prejudices with race, but the positive qualities associated with that race.
In a way, removing the interracial category, is a racist move. It discriminates against a group of people based on their preference, because of their skin color, and it suggests the performers and producers who create the content, are shepherding negative stereotypes.
While I disagree with morbidthoughts on removing the IR tag rather than changing it to be more encompassing and adding more tags for other pairings, I do agree with him in this discussion with evilpineapples.
I think it would be hard to prove that there isn't some underlying racism involved if you claim to not be attracted to an entire "race" of people based solely on the tone of their skin or perceived cultural difference (Blacks are not a monolith, not all Blacks are the stereotypical "thugs" or into Hip Hop culture like implied). There are plenty of Blacks that grew up around Whites and share more culturally with them than with Blacks that grew up in more "urban" environments. So yes, I would say if a White woman had said that she wasn't attracted to Black men based on "Black culture" (which there is not one culture that represents all of the Blacks in the entire world) then I would say that falls under "racism." Same with literally just skin tone since, again, Blacks are not a monolith and we come in all shades, ranging from dark to even "pasty white" (yes, "white" Blacks exist, believe it or not).
I also disagree with pruning harmless data on any grounds, especially when the rationale given for doing so is rooted in fascism/censorship (which I vehemently oppose as well).
In the follow-up comments to her twitter post, she addresses many of the ridiculous arguments that have been seen in this thread in a much more eloquent manner than I have:
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Young people misunderstanding racism. As a person of minority who has suffered racism, people misconstrue stereotypes and biases, for racism.
Here's an example:
You make a joke about Chinese people being bad drivers to your friends. That's laughing about stereotypes. There's no data to support this stereotype, but it's commonly repeated.
You refuse to get into a car driven by a Chinese person for fear of getting injured. That's racism.
You hire a Chinese person to do your accounting because of the stereotype they are good at math. Not racism. But certainly an incorrect assumption.
Racism is discrimination or antagonism towards someone because of their race. If someone is preferring to watch to watch a black guy, isn't that the opposite of discrimination?
Implied by whom? By me? I never said that nor do I believe that. Sounds like you're projecting your preconceptions onto what I actually said.I would agree. My point in mentioning that was that we do not know a person's reasoning for not being attracted to black men. It could be due to a perception about black culture, which would be racist, and that is the assumption that many people would make apropos of nothing. However, we cannot possibly know that, unless it is stated directly of course.But see, that's where you're wrong.
First of all, there is no such thing as "black people," biologically speaking, because that grouping is an arbitrary category created by human beings --- as all other races are. The definition of what constitutes a "black person" is inherently malleable because it is a social construct, and not actually rooted in any sort of objective biological criteria.
At any rate, a lack of sexual attraction to a physical trait (such as a skin tone) is not racist.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 6/28/2020 1:52:58 AM
You are correct, but it works both ways - the offended, and the accused. I accept your input and IAFD's decision to remove the tag. It is your platform. I'm not admonishing the actions.
The papers you cited focus on sexual racism in dating, particularly exclusionary racism (eg. "not attracted to asians"), and for this cohort it can be agreed that racism is rationalized as preference, but how can these conclusions be applied and generalized to the consumers, and producers of interracial porn?
My opinion is that it's not a fair comparison, but I'm open to changing my opinion.
Is there a study showing porn preference in one category, equals exclusion in another, in a similar vein to the "not attracted to asians" racism? In other words, is there data showing that users who enjoy IR, do not also enjoy ebony porn, asian porn, or white porn.
Would it be racism for a white male to enjoy watching asian porn?
I know this is coming from frustration of debating this ad nauseam, and I apologize for entering into this so late. I'm not trying to argue endlessly, but genuinely interested in understanding IAFD's position. Specifically, clarification of the "narrative started hundreds of years ago" mentioned in the blog. What is the narrative?
BTW, I'm nowhere close to a boomer and barely a millennial. But thank you for the work you do on IAFD
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 28 2020 : 3:20AM
BTW the scene match function on IAFD is a great way to track down a particular release or scence. I use it all the time to help identify films for people in the Feature forum.
I discussed my times about this , especially when either Blacked and Dogfart put on scenes with Black Women and White Men it was Ana Foxxx in both cases in the case of Dogfart she was playing the cheating wife cuckolding her black husband with a white man , well it was hell , first it wasn't IR because IR only means WF/BM and secondly no black woman should appear on an IR site. The same reasoning happened in her first Scene with Blacked (I mean the Network) and possibly for her scene with Manuel Ferrara at DarkX or HardX , but I'm not sure I have it on DVD , I wasn't a member when it was issued.
It wasself defined black men those who were most vocal about it
PS Yes I like Ana very much I even own those lesbian movies she directed at Filly Film , I don't like G/G usually there are a few exceptions though Ana is one of those along with Lily Cade (a redehead go figure)
I agree, besides I don't think "black men" just mean a skin color it means all the features related to that , a Black man isn't just a heavily tanned white guy nor is Vice Versa Also why it would be " I'm not attracted to white men" or "asian men" but but cannot be said for black men? Or women for that matter
she's actually just repeting exactly what you said: "Interracial is racist because it's makes skin color a fetish". It doesn't reply to my point that the problem of racism is the denial of other people's right and freedom, not personal sexual preferences that don't harm anybody. If I kill a person putting my knee on his neck for eight minutes that's a huge problem. If I like to watch black and white persons having sex there's no harm to anybody (until I see solid arguments that prove the opposite).
I want to add another thing: porn itself is a controversial topic. It touches things that are not black and white (pun intended) and should be discussed in their complexity. I've always thought that a good way to do it is the question "are my personal choices hurting the rights of someone else"?
Bdsm is controversial because it includes the use of pain. Someone would just say "this is harmful". A more insightful answer would be: there are consenting adults doing what they want with rules, boundaries and safe words.
Anal is controversial because an ass is not made for a penis and anal could be damaging. As above, a superficial answer is "this is harmful". The answer is the same as above.
Gay porn is controversial (it is, it doesn't matter that I don't have any problem with it) because to many two persons of the same sex aren't supposed to have sex together and it's harmful for the society. The correct answer is that two persons in their bedroom aren't hurting anybody else.
Porn as a whole is controversial because to many it's just degrading for women. That means: women are hurted by porn, and even if they choose to make it and enjoy they should not do it because "it degrades women". A more sensible answer is that women should be free to use their body as they want, instead of having someone else denying them that freedom.
We are talking of the same kind of things here. To discuss interracial in terms of "this is racist" is a superficial answer and does not answer to that question above ("are my personal choices hurting the right of someone else") and causes other problems.
These conclusions are not meant to be applied to consumers or producers, but onto how performers can assert their "racial preference" to either outright refuse to work or demand a higher rate which perpetuates the racist pay disparities between performers:We are referencing the narrative that interracial porn producers historically peddle where "the white female performer is being humiliated, pillaged, or there's something taboo about her having sex with a Black man" along with the racist tropes and stereotypes that often show up in these movies. One of the studies I cited looked at how attitudes about interracial dating can be shaped by mass media, which suggests that the "narrative" in interracial pornography can shape or reinforce some really fucked up ideas in the wrong consumer. This concern is similar to feminist concerns about how pornography can negatively shape attitudes toward women.
The high consumer demand for traditional interracial pornography is happily filled with producers who continue to utilize the narrative because they think it sells. This demand also causes producers to offer higher rates that incentivize female performers to continue asserting their "racial preference" which contributes to the harm to black performers in terms of stigma, pay, and self-worth.
yes, that's very racist against the white female performer. We should stop to see black men as superior (and well endowed) beings and white females as inferior and powerless. White lives matter. Lol, we are getting to the absurd point of a black man that is shown in a position of power and superiority as a victim of discrimination. Probably being lefthanded I should feel discriminated because we are usually seen as artistically talented and smart.
You should read again the comment above of fit18, especially the part about chinese people good at math.
unfortunately those studies can be read only paying, so citing them in this discussion without further arguments doesn't add anything to the conversation.
You did realise that I mentioned the study to Fit18 after he indicated that he had read the papers and asked a couple of questions about them:Yet you felt the need to complain that it didn't add anything to the conversation because you couldn't read them and had to make it about you.
It took me while to find these:
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You have any problems seeing them or making them about you?
Violet Brandani: 2026 Porn Crush Media Day Interview
Posted - Jun 26 2020 : 12:51PM
