I don't see the problem with that ... If we keep having gorgeous and flawless women like Katrin Tequila, Emily Thorne or Kira Thorne repeated over and over again, i really don't see where the problem is, those girls are angels and they fuck like goddesses, i buy scenes on LP specifically to see those girls ... I'm not too familiar with the LP forums but i do know that people want consistency over diversity, people would rather watch beautiful and great performers performing double anal, DPs and gangbangs than have a rookie come to LP, shoot one scene or two and then leave because it's too extreme for her ... If the women on LP were ugly i'd understand, but those girls are supermodels and we're lucky and blessed to see them fuck on camera. New girls are always welcome (like Crystal Greenvelle, May Thai or Kira) but i'd rather watch goddesses like Belle Claire, Ria Sunn or Dominica Phoenix in awesome gangbangs than watch inexperienced rookies akwardly try to perform a DP just because LP want to diversify their performers a little bit. As i've said, consistency is better than diversity ^ Of course i hope more american girls will come to LP (like Aj Applegate, Casey Calvert or Jennifer White did) ...
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 27 2017 : 4:11PM
^^I think there's a difference between saying that LP has a smaller talent pool available to them than other networks and saying that they are having trouble getting women to work for them. If they're constantly getting turned down when they try to book talent, then I'd agree that they're having trouble.
Yes, I mentioned this already but I need to vent... I can download from most sites at 40MB/s but tonight I'm consistently seeing 200KB/s from our friends at LP. This site consistently has the slowest download speeds of any of the many sites subscribe to. For the prices they charge you'd think they could upgrade from the Atari computer that they use for a server.
The double and triple anal everywhere is making me sick. In the old days you had more producers you could go to for plain old DP, but now (due their dominance), you either go without, or suffer through this. Edited by - moebius22 on 3/27/2017 11:22:52 PM Edited by - moebius22 on 3/28/2017 12:36:58 AM Edited by - moebius22 on 3/28/2017 12:37:51 AM Edited by - moebius22 on 3/28/2017 1:00:27 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 12:59AM
^Hardly any scenes on LP have TAP. There's a reason that the TAP thread here is only five pages. In any case, if those scenes are making you sick it should be fairly easy to avoid them. EDIT: I see that you've edited your post in order to express you dislike for DAP in addition to TAP. Are you implying that most DP scenes today, including those outside of LP, also include DAP? Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/28/2017 1:27:32 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 6:09AM
That goes against all available evidence. The industry still very much believes in performers becoming 'shot out.' There's a reason great performers like Gianna, Brianna Love, Bobbi Starr, Sunny Lane, etc retired.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 10:59AM
^Didn't Brianna retire because she fell in love with her manager? I recall reading that they got married and that Brianna had another child. I think Bobbi also retired when she fell in love and got married. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/28/2017 11:01:10 AM
I'm saying that in the past DAP and TAP was something you rarely saw period. Now many girls are doing the majority of their hard scenes (DP and up) at Legal Porno. Moreover many of Legal Porno's scenes quickly escalate from plain DP to scenes to DAP and TAP. I personally, wouldn't give a damn if Legal Porno wasn't so dominant in the European industry, but they're.
^ No, a lot of girls shoot the majority of theirDP scenes with Legal Porno now. That leaves paltry few bbg DP scenes for other producers. Edited by - moebius22 on 3/28/2017 2:09:00 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 4:07AM
Yes but both were already getting a lot less work by the time they retired. Bobbi was trying to move into directing. Whether the retirement followed the marriage or marriage followed the retirement we don't know. I suspect the latter. I certainly don't feel that great performers are 'shot out.' As Dirty Don says I could watch Gianna scenes until the end of time but this is certainly an item of faith in the industry. Whether it is true or not is hard to say.
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AlexTheMachine Deactivated User
790 Posts 2/17
Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 4:12AM
I do agree that there is such a thing as girls getting "shot out", however the girls on LP are still pretty young. Gianna, Brianna or Bobbi were way over their 30's when they retired, they did porn, got old and moved on to other and better things, the girls on LP are still in their 20's and still got time to go. Besides european girls are stronger than american girls in my opinion, they can do more hardcore scenes and last longer before they retire . I think the girls on LP will still last a while, besides people want to see them, LP is the number one european porn studio and that's thanks to the girls ...LP is the studio that does the most DAP and TAP in Europe, but they do it the best and they're trusted by the girls (Gonzo and GG) . They've got the monopole on the market and they're doing great scenes. They have no reason to stop or slow down even if it damages other studios, they should continue making awesome scenes ^
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 4:49AM
Puma Swede, among others, say that women performers in European porn tend to be paid less, have tougher working conditions and have shorter careers than in American porn. There's a reason many of their performers come to the US and stay if they can. Europorn certainly has a greater emphasis on circus acts than American porn currently (although back in the 90s and early 00s I'd say they were close to on par), but I don't think I can agree that their women performers are 'stronger.' Stronger than Bobbi Starr, Belladonna or Careena Collins? Those performers had few limits. Of course Europe also gave us Kelly Stafford and Annette Haven. I think it comes down more to the individual woman than where they are from per se. Edited by - BlackSix on 3/29/2017 4:55:12 AM
As with most things it probably comes down to money. They have more money so they can horde all the girls while continuing to shoot scenes with drab white walls and lousy costumes.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 11:02AM
According to what her agent said, it seems that Bobbi was performing less because she was directing for Kink and Evil Angel. Now that I see that she got married before she left the industry (page 91, it seems that she may have transitioned into directing due to her relationship. By the time of her marriage she appears to have taken a hiatus from performing.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 11:07AM
I don't think it's age so much as career length. Most LP regulars haven't spent a decade in porn like the performers that BlackSix listed did. If their scenes were selling less by the time they retired and they were getting booked less as a result, perhaps consumers were getting less interested after a decade worth of scenes. The women of LP generally have years to go before they reach that point. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/29/2017 11:10:13 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 11:11AM
Did she say that recently, such as in the last couple of years? I ask because she entered the industry over a decade ago, and her observations may be outdated.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 3:18AM
It was in her book. She isn't the only one who has said so but she is a name that I could actually remember as a source. Considering the state of the porn industry I doubt things have improved, that would go against the grain of everything else we've seen. Although I guess it is possible the demand for more 'extreme' acts could be less as we've definitely seen a decline in that in US porn.
Lily Labeau is in Europe right now(france specifically) and she shot for a french porn website jacquieetMichel. She has,in the past, expressed interest in shooting for legalporno on twitter, so we'll see if she makes her way to Prague during her trip.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 11:36AM
What have we seen though? From what I've read it does seem that Europe's pornstars are paid less than Americans, but insofar as the question of working conditions I don't know because I haven't seen anything either way. I also haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that a woman's career in Europorn is shorter than an American's is in US porn.
^ I don't know about working conditions and career span either, but I have read in several places over the years that the pay is significantly less. This may not be the case with LP, though. In fact, didn't wages get specified as about 2K for certain scenes when performers were complaining of not being paid?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 12:04PM
^I only check in on their forums very rarely so I don't know, but I'd be glad to know that LP is paying better than the competition. Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/2/2017 12:05:10 PM
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AlexTheMachine Deactivated User
790 Posts 2/17
Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 4:10PM
I believe the girls in LP are treated well and paid well for their scenes. It comes down to the studio, but one can't generalize that all european performers are paid less than americans and have worse working conditions, we're talking about LP here, they certainly have the money ... Also yes i believe that the level of intensity comes down to the performers but Europe currently has more hardcore performers than America and there are no "firsts" in scenes like in America (which i really like) . The european girls currently are also stronger since they can take and endure more pounding than the American performers (Kira Thorne, May Thai and July Sun are stronger than the americans girls combined except for Adriana Chechik. Holly Hendrix and Angel Smalls i'd say)That's what i meant, career length means how much time those girls spent in porn. Gianna or Bobbi spent years in porn and they got old, LP girls are still young ....I'm sure LP pays their performers well. They're the biggest porn website in Europe and they also get a lot of money from their tube site. I know that the rate for a DAP is 5000 dollars but it really comes down to the girl and how much she's popular and people want to see her scenes. Top girls like Emily Thorne, Katrin Tequila or Lola Bulgari are some of the highest paid performers on LP and can receive close to 2000 or 3000 dollars for their scenes ... Edited by - AlexTheMachine on 4/2/2017 4:14:12 PM
There's 2 vision (for me in the US) of the new Monika Wild new scene. "Soaking Wet with Monika Wild" and "Facialized with Monika Wild" First one has longer running time and has pissing in the trailer. Wonder if this an oversight for the US version or a change in policy?
This seems odd, and it may be pointless to even mention it, but I am surprised that the barring of LP peeing scenes is US only and doesn't include Canada. Canada tends to have less tolerance for 'obscenity' than the US does. But, as a Canadian member of LP I've continued to download all the LP peeing scenes since US access was cut off. don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that Canadians can get the peeing scenes, it's just that often the North American market just gets lumped together.
^ good point. Usually a Euro standard and US/North American standard, doesn't make sense. Also, never mind on the Monika Wild scene. "Soaking Wet" version not available in my area when I checked today.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 4:15AM
Well Puma Swede actually worked in the industry so it isn't a generalization but a statement from someone who worked in the industry for a long time. And she's not the only one who has said it. As for LP, they certainly pay high rates for DPs, DAPs, etc. But how their rates compare to the US? Hard to say. What would they pay for a non-extreme scene compared to the top companies in the US? Well there's a reason many Eurostars come and shoot in the US.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 10:31AM
The importance of career length imo is that these pornstars shot a lot of scenes, not that they were "old" when they retired. Hell, Gianna Michaels was younger when she retired (and still is) than Veronica Avluv was when she started.
Considering that non-dp or non-dap scenes are now a rarity on LP than this subject will be hard to debate. My gut feeling is that they don't pay any better than other sites for anal.
Sometimes life is goofier than a monkey on ether 12073 Posts 7/10
Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 7:07PM
+1,000,000 to this. If AlexTheMachine ruled the world women would be killed when they hit 30 for being "too old". SMDH
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AlexTheMachine Deactivated User
790 Posts 2/17
Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 8:09PM
She used to work in the industry. That was then, this is now, times have changed. I admit that i do not know how european performers were treated back in the day, but i know that nowadays european performers are paid well, have good working conditions and stable careers in Europe. There are plenty of european performers who go to America to shoot but that's not all of them and the opposite is true, there are american performers who go to shoot in Europe and some even stay there . As far as the rates go, like i said previously the big studios pay performers well (depending on their relevancy) and most performers who come to Europe shoot for those studios (LP, 21st sextury, Perfect Gonzo ...)I NEVER said that Gianna, Bobbi, Brianna or any other performer who retired when they reached their 30's weren't hot when they retired ... Those performers simply spent many years in porn, released many amazing scenes and then retired when performing porn wasn't for them anymore. Some like the amazing Bobbi Starr or Dana Vespoli even became great directors and contributed to the porn industry after they retired ... And Buck, dont make false assumptions about me please . I love mature women and some of my favorite performers (Veronica Avluv, Cherie Deville, Brittany Bardot) are actually mature women way over their 30's. I suppose i should have said mature, not old, that was a wrong choice of words on my part
Edited by - AlexTheMachine on 4/4/2017 10:27:09 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 3:32AM
Times have changed, for the worse. Work and rates are not what they use to be in the US industry, why would it be otherwise in Europe where by all indications rates and work have been historically lower? Valentina Nappi has said that in Europe there was much less work and the sets were way less professional. What makes you more of an expert than Swede or Nappi?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 11:12AM
^Doesn't Valentina not shoot DAP, which limits her work options? EDIT: Later pat362 mentions that Valentina's shot for 30 or more European studios, so even without DAP it seems that she's found a lot of work. I'm not sure how many scenes that adds up to though, or how frequently she's gotten booked since her 2012 entry into porn. In any case, if Valentina works more regularly here than in Europe, that doesn't mean that US based performers in general get more bookings in the US industry than pornstars do in Europe. Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/5/2017 8:41:20 PM
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AlexTheMachine Deactivated User
790 Posts 2/17
Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 12:21PM
I hate to repeat myself but i said previously that the way girls are treated and how much they're paid depends on the studio they shoot for . If you shoot for a small or an unkown european studio, of course girls are not going to be paid well and are going to have rough working conditions. However if you shoot for a world famous european studio (LP, 21st Sextury, DDF Network or even Perfect Gonzo), those studios pay their performers well and the work conditions are safe and reasonable for the girls. If girls shoot for small studios, it's their fault and they should assume the consequences (agents are also to blame sometimes) ... I want to name Proxy Paige as an example. She used to work in America and actually went to Europe and shot a bunch of scenes, even became a director for LP... If working conditions were as rough as you claim them to be and if she wasn't paid well, don't you think she would come back to America (where she had a stable career) instead of staying in Europe. Think about it for a second ... And you name Valentina Nappi, miss Nappi only shot for a few european porn studios and she never went to LP (never shot a DAP). She has a limited knowledge of the european porn industry. She is not by any means, a reliable source as to how the girls are treated and how much they're paid in Europe. If you really want to know what's going on in Europe, go ask Proxy or Belle Claire, you'll have your answer ...
^ Why would a smaller studio entail rougher working conditions? And how do you know how much those studios pay or that the working conditions are safe? There are a lot of assumptions in your post.
Valentina shot for at least 30 different European studios so I'd say that makes her a very well informed on the subject of European studios. As for Proxy and her knowledge of European studios. You might want to check how many different studios she has actually shot for before saying that she is an expert. The only thing Belle and Proxy are experts on is how they are treated by LP. That's it that's all.
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SirJerksAlot Deactivated User
392 Posts 2/17
Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 5:17PM
Yeah, why would this be surprising? LP is a plague upon the porno world.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 5:37PM
^Unless someone provides proof that LP is regularly turned down by talent I don't see any reason to conclude that they are having trouble getting women to work for them. Certainly, your opinion that LP is a "plague" isn't evidence of your position that they have trouble booking talent. "I don't like LP so I believe that they have trouble booking talent" isn't a very convincing argument at all. Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/5/2017 5:39:06 PM
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A_Fan Deactivated User
1187 Posts 9/16
Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 6:02PM
They will be turned down by anyone not wanting to do double anal.. that is normal and DAP is only going to be done be a segment of performers. any studio will have turn-downs if they do sex acts the performer doesn't want. Girls turn down anal and DP and IR scenes here in the US regularly, that doesn't mean the studios shooting that content are evil. They are enough women willing to perform double anal for the money they pay that they can turn out 50+ scenes a month.. so there is plenty of work to keep everyone busy.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 6 2017 : 1:50AM
Proxy has shot for a handful of European studios so far, she is hardly an expert compared to the near decade experience of Swede or the many studios that Nappi shot with. And I've seen no evidence that she is some uncritical cheerleader for the European porn industry. She could be shooting in Europe now for many reasons outside of the work. What evidence do you have that European studios are suddenly experiencing some kind of golden age and rolling in dough? How do you as a fan claim to know more about work conditions than those who have actually worked in the industry? And I never said that 'conditions were rough' I simply repeated the actual statements of performers that the sets were less professional in Europe, not LP in particular. Although the images that have been shared by a male performer on his social media of himself and several female performers doing coke on a LP set certainly doesn't suggest a very professional set. Although to be fair that pic appeared to be in a bathroom and so probably outside of the sight of the director. Edited by - BlackSix on 4/6/2017 1:56:41 AM
I know that one of the LP producers (Giorgio Grandi) is only shooting scenes with double anal now. That off course means that girls who don't want to do double anal will be turned down by him. That is perfectly normal. If you don't want to do that as a pornstar you shouldn't perform in his scenes. Giorgio is shooting new girls in his scenes quite regularly so I assume he has absolutely no problems with finding new girls for his vids.
