Your questions at the end have nothing to do with what I was taking issue with, Pat. I wasn't referring to cases where people genuinely get bad service and specifically said I'm not disputing constructive criticisms. Did you miss this part or are you just twisting it around. I figured there would be people who would complain, but sorry not sorry. As I wrote in my message, I was referring to the overgeneralizations and comments demonizing OF models overall for getting compensated for content they create. Oh and by the way, I'm very much an advocate for cam models being honest about what we do in shows and said this in a previous interview: https://www.wecamgirls.com/articles/interview-with-tessa1/
To add to what you asked about camming, I have another one:
What if the cam model is honest about what they do in shows, but a customer gets a show and then asks the performer to do something they didn't say they'd do ahead of time? Or, something that may violate the rules of site or possibly obscenity laws (that are very vague in the U.S. and perhaps the performer doesn't want to risk it). This puts the performer in a very awkward position. If the customer asked the performer before the show, they could have told them this.
To respond to what you said, if the cam model says they'll do something in a show and then doesn't, that's on them. If the model isn't specific about what they do in a show and just hint it might be worth it, the customer needs to decide whether to take the chance. If they chose to take a chance, that was a choice they made knowing the model wasn't being specific and they need to live with their decision though they can feel disappointed. I can't tell people what to feel. In one-on-one shows, if the customer doesn't say what they want ahead of time and then demands the performer do something they refuse to during the show, then that's on the customer and I don't hold the cam model responsible if the customer complains. One way to deal with this is for the cam model to bring up other ideas and try to redirect them to something they will do or something that is allowed. If the customer still keeps insisting, then the cam model may need to just flat out say they won't do that or that's not allowed. Then, the customer can decide whether to end the show or just flex and try something else.
To end on a positive note, Happy New Years Eve to all!
I'm not in the porn scene but how I look at it as an outsider and what I've heard here and there, the system is just broken. Being listed on a booking site and not really have a say in who you're working with. That wouldn't suit me either. I would care about the output and I'd want to be a creative perfectionist. If I were a hot pornstar I would want my career to be like Maitland Ward. I'm not going for shitty studios or create something I don't like. "I'm in it just for the sex (and the money)" doesn't fly with me.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Jan 7 2023 : 12:41PM
^ You have to work with shitty and unethical studios because that's what the fans want from you. You have to shoot content with unethical and rough sex performers because that's what the fans want. I seriously never understand why pornstars even ask fans for new studios they should work with when they always name off the same 3 or 4 studios which are the most unethical studios in porn. Ethical studios or studios that focus on making something erotic and realistic are never named because "goons" think it's too soft and "vanilla". And these studios are too small and indie for most big-name pornstars to even look at because they most likely can't afford to pay the rates that studios like Vixen or Brazzers are paying out. Maitland Ward is great but I think Angela White's career is the one to model. She waited years to do her first b/g scenes and then shoot her "first " herself, she build her brand and her studio before even working with any major site. She worked with every major studio but she didn't let them label or put her in some "genre(MILF)". She didn't let studios dictate what type of porn she made. Angela White does follow trends and does what the fans like but she also does scenes and works with studios that only a minority of fans are into. Angela White is also a pornstar that looks like she enjoys sex and making porn, making millions of dollars from it is a bonus
I kind of agree with you both. Alizee is right from the perspective of an ideal performers careerspan. Who wouldn't want to work with Kayden Kross every day on a legit set with catering and wardrobe and real scripts. Vixen has definitely helped to legitimize the game in a way. That being said I do agree the whole "which studios should I work for" thing is nonsense. Vixen, Brazzers, EvilAngel, HardX, etc. They don't really have much distinguishing themselves from one another. It makes sense fans are gonna pick specialty studios that actually guarantee certain types of content. I guess those types of tweets are good for getting exposure but if they're actually interested in what their fans want I feel like they should ask about certain acts they'd like to see not studios.
Overheard at AVN that Skye Blue will stop shooting with the reason being that her OF is going really well. Damn another favorite leaving. At some point I'll start wondering who will be left in the business.
last month, I was talking on twitter with this performer and I said to her that I had seen the trailer of a scene and I wanted to buy it. She said, sure, join my onlyfans. I did so, and asked for the scene. "I can't find it, sorry let me look for it". A week later I asked again, same reply. Another week, same reply. Another week, same reply. So I paid a monthly subscription to buy a scene after she told me to do so for absolutely nothing. Another guy I've seen subscribed for another performer, who was offering a private chat of 10 minutes for 30 dollars. He paid 30 dollars and the chat on her part was literally just an emoji of a smile. Nothing else. I'm really, really hating that site.
this is the problem, girls will say and do anything to get you to subscribe to their OF page, but once you've subscribed, it's extra work to send you content so they just tune out and focus on getting more subscribers
I've had instances where the likes of Lena Paul and Darcie Dolce will promote various videos (daily I might add) and when you contact them asking to buy it, they'll say "Send me $30 tip and I'll send it to you" - problem with tipping is that "buyers" can't keep the videos, it doesn't show as a purchase so it's not in your history and their accounts will spam the shit out of you with DMs every hour so any videos get lost in the shuffle
I've also had instances where I've bought videos from girls, who have then deleted the videos from their library so it shows in my purchase history as a blank post, no video content available - the girl says "Contact OF" who then say "You need to contact the performer to re-send it" and guess what.... girls refuse to re-send content you've previously paid for, and they've removed, and just say "You can buy it again for a $30 tip honey"
OF is a great way to make money for the girls, but there is no level of protection for the customers, OF don't care and the girls just want more and more money
The thing is, most of the OF stuff is vanilla. That is my problem. If a performer is only doing her own stuff or vanilla stuff on Brazzers, it is not interesting for me, even if I like this woman, this happens to me in 3 cases since summer 2020 onf OF. The only person is doing hard stuff too, is Casey Calvert or also Lydia Black, but OF do not allow, so they switched to Loyalfans for that kind of stuff. In the mainstream porn are only younger, new talent or the ones who are not that famous, interesting or succussful. A woman like Dana DeArmond stopped long ago shooting for companies, got real successful on OF, just 1 example of many. So as a conclusion, this AVN Awarding and show, voting for 2023, hours ago occured, is IMHO more and more a farce, just a few companies remain, this allover Mindgeek stuff, Adulttime, Tushy, maybe Evil Angel. And Brazzers is the on ! Each perfomer got an exclusive contract with Brazzers finally got it. I guess, suggest a much higher payment for a video and also a fixed number of videos per year. But having more time and being free, indepedent what and when to shot for their own OF site and making much money. Being still making mainstream porn here and there, can just be a kind of reminder, so that the fan base and the industry see: I am still here, alive and available. One performer told me so about 1 year ago on OF in terms of Brazzers. So I think, mainstream porn and companies are in disadvantage, we should better look for niche porn like KINK or LegalPorn, in case someone prefers the harder stuff. (Rebel Rhyder, Dee Williams, Syren de Mer or Lydia Black are doing, to name but a few).
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jan 8 2023 : 9:13AM
I myself do not think that there will be any real studio stars again. The momentum is shifting more and more towards "home office" at the moment, and I'd be surprised if there are any big studios left in 5 years....except for all this cheap fast food crap like Brazzers. I think pro porn is facing crossroads and a lot of things will change in the next few years.
I myself am not a fan of the OF model because I simply have no interest in interactions with the girls and that is all that OF or MV is about. At the same time, I have little interest in pro porn anymore, because many former big studios only shoot sporadically, or to save money directors permanently put themselves in almost every scene, even though they don't have the dick for porn at all.
Therefore, I assume that in a few years I will no longer watch any porn at all.
I honestly think a major shift is imminent too. Too many old school porn people are running the industry. The same sort of content over and over with guys that, while reliable, are kinda past their prime.
Yeah I fell for it once but never again. When they say tip first, its a red flag. Because with the way OF works, they can send out videos that are PPV and you can unlock by choice. That way you for sure know you are getting what you paid for. Instead of tipping and then having the person (or hired OF Manager) never respond again or just not send the video you tipped for. I enjoy POV videos which some OnlyFans are good for, but for the most part I would steer clear of most OnlyFans, tons of them are run by OF Managers, so you aren't even talking to the actual person presented. Also a lot of pages started doing "VIP Club" and stuff like that where you pay even more, after subscribing. I'd rather just stick to regular sites where you know you are getting what you pay for. And as said above, I also have no interest in developing a parasocial relationship with any of these girls, because I think its a waste of time and your time would be better spent actually going outside.
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jan 14 2023 : 2:54AM
One newly-discovered pet peeve about Onlyfans for me is that if you subscribe to more than 2 women at a time you likely get "want me to tell you how to jerk off" and "$10 to rank your dick" messages every other hour.
Probably copy/paste templates used by the same assistant who manages multiple accounts at specific hours.
An obvious sign of this is when there are wall posts promoting other creators when some of the performers have never worked together or never even met.
Something recent I discovered that's annoying is when I sent screenshots to a creator because there was specific content I wanted to buy but due to OF's shitty system of not having a clip store feature like LoyalFans I didn't know what specific name of the video to give. I could only describe the position in the screenshot and the male talent + length of the clip if I knew from "elsewhere"
Sending screenshots when you're not a creator is a big mistake. OnlyFans will stupidly think you're selling to sell/share content and will ask for tags and verification BS and might end up deleting your media.
Long story short, just upload your screenshots on imgur for free and paste the URL link and hopefully the girl will look at it and recognize what it is you're asking for even if it's off site.
Here are my reasons onlyfans is terrible 1. the prices of each performer charging their subscriptions 2. the talent relaying too much on the platform to make more income 3. the studios getting ripped off from the platform 4. Onlyfans is a virtual strip club
....it's either very new cheese or very old meat 102 Posts 12/09
Posted - Jan 15 2023 : 12:30PM
My 2 cents.
From one perspective, I like it because it encourages way more amateur girls to get involved in baring themselves, than would ordinarily do so, if they had to go via the world of strip clubs or porn agents. I love the idea of the kind of girls you'd see at the mall or in your workplace, revealing their desire to be seen naked / in sexual acts. Something that's always hidden from view in polite society. My particular fantasy is finding girls I know, doing stuff on OF.
The parts of Onlyfans (and other sites like Fansly) I hate is:
- The girls not having any notion of monetary value vs what they are offering. So many ask stupid prices for self-shot videos, rather than offering reasonable prices, or working out a decent blanket subscription rate that includes everything. Yes, I know all that underwear and makeup costs money. But, I'm simply not thirsty enough to drop $30 on your 5 min video, even if you are being DP'd. Be realistic, and you'll actually find yourself making some coin in the longrun. - Girls who post sporadically. Again, you can find yourself overpaying on someone who doesn't understand posting consistently, so there is no parity between what you are paying and the content you will get. OF should work out a system, which reduces the sub rate if you are not posting content regularly, acting as an incentive to post more. - The user interface. Like pornsites, I want to be able to filter the models by body-type, acts / kinks, ethnicity, and even broad geographic location. The present interface is a complete crapshoot with no way of filtering. Ironically, the only way to filter what you are specifically looking for is to go to pirate sites.
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jan 15 2023 : 3:06PM
The studios are not getting ripped off by aggregators of performer-owned content like OF. Nobody is cheating the studios.
I wish I'd read this thread more - I signed up to two onlyfans content producers. One based on content advertised on twitter. - In the OF subscription there seems to be nothing but just a load of 60 second clips. I don't get what the point of it is; ripped off!
^ Don't feel bad. Like you, I've only subscribed twice and was disappointed both time. Sure, if you had read this thread earlier it might have saved you some grief, but you didn't know it was here so don't beat yourself up about it. As the saying goes, ripping people off isn't a bug, it's a feature.
^I don't know that anyone reading this thread would act differently because at the end of the day. The hope that is a huge part of OF appeals makes it hard for most people to not join at least one or more models OF account. You being a long time porn fan who joined multiple porn sites over the years and likely got burned a few times even though these sites were more above the board than any OF account still joined a couple of models OF accounts knowing less than nothing about content because you hoped that you would be justified in joining.
It is a bit frustrating that more stars are putting content on OF. It is one of the worst consumer experiences. The whole DM for scenes is dumb. It really is just a platform designed to nickel and dime people.
so far I've had poor experiences with many girls in terms of "DM for this scene"
usually, they post a story (like an IG story) and you reply to it, so it actually shows the specific scene you're responding about, but they usually have shite like "DM xxx fuck me raw xxx for this scene" and then you reply with "xxx fuck me raw xxx" (as instructed) only to receive either a reply that says "Send $30 babe" or, the best one so far "Huh? what does that mean?" (which is even more proof that the person replying isn't the person managing the account's activity)
it's frustrating when some girls are quite active, and some girls are basically rinsing you for every penny - I know it's a business, but some girls at least respond to messages and will engage in conversation in terms of what their plans are for their content/updates etc
shout out to Jill Kassidy! not only one of the hottest girls, but also one of the most responsive! she deserves a high five for her efforts to keep fans engaged in her content
A pornstar who I shall not name literally cried on livestream yesterday when she saw how her OF dms were handled for her and she confessed the whole deal. I don't know if I should feel sorry for the girl but I do. It doesn't make it okay, I mean the fact that people pay to chat with someone who is impersonating is simply fraud. She said that the guy who handles her account dm section gets 20%. Now that he's fired for sending dms in a style that doesn't match her personality, the people who already paid for custom content can wave their money goodbye as she won't do them anymore. Personally I had no idea the girl would be so emotionally invested. We tend to assume that they are immune to almost anything after doing porn. People requesting all kinds of weird shit does tear them down mentally.
That's BONKERS for him to collect that much just for DMs. Some no-name girls will hire the service of an onlyfans management company who take 20-30%, but in exchange, they properly manage the account AND drive traffic to it because they manage other accounts.
A pornstar has no reason for paying someone that amount because the value lies with the traffic that can be generated and as a pornstar, your name recognition already drives the traffic.
If OF takes 20%, and this dude takes 20%, that's 40% gone - wiping out the value of having OF. 40% cut is no different from manyvids or a managed paysite.
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jan 23 2023 : 2:46PM
They don't know any better. When a porn girl needs resources or information, pretty much her only recourse is to ask other women on Twitter. Outside of that, there's no playbook for the job, so it's probably easy for girls to get scooped up by dudes promising them the world in marketing and management results. Hell, that happens to people in vanilla jobs constantly; it's a whole industry.
There's one performer whose account I get messages from and I want to go on Twitter and ask her if it gets results because....lol. I am a hard sell intentionally because I don't like ads or marketing tactics or the fakeness of being talked to as if I am a performer's boyfriend (just not into the fantasy), but putting my tendencies and principles aside, I read the shit and I'm like, "is this really getting people to buy?"
Anyway, as I said before, dudes shouldn't be trying to message the performers unless it's about custom work anyways, so if it's really some dude who is sexting the customers well...that's to be expected lol. That's services rendered if you ask me lmao
Stop me if I misread you but a performer created an OF account then then let someone else handle the day to day managing without any oversight on her part and still managed to get 80% of the profit and she is upset by the way the man she paid interacted with her fans. For one thing he should have gotten significantly more than 20% seeing as he was basically earning her the money while she was doing God knows what. Whatever it was. It certainly wasn't related to OF.
There is definitely a scam here and she is the perpetrator of it because she created the situation in the first place and profited from it. How hard would it have been to spend half an hour a day checking what was happening with her OF account. What happens to all those saps who got conned out of their money because she doesn't plan to honor what she allowed her account manager to do? The least she could do would be to apologize and return the money since she didn't earn it.
Is the problem people are taking issue with that she mislead customers into thinking she was responding (in which case her assistant was also involved in this deception so it's interesting if people sympathize with him but vilify her), or is the problem that she had somebody else respond to her DMs at all? Like, if she had a disclaimer saying something like "due to other obligations, an assistant helps respond to DMs," would that be okay? Also, if 20 percent isn't enough, what's a fair percentage? How can we say without knowing how much of the work he did overall? There's more work to doing OF than just DMs, such as photo shoots, posting photos and videos, possibly live camming, editing, posting on the wall, and so on. Has anybody here ever done a photo shoot? It's work, not just during the shoot but also getting ready. Even if you're just taking selfies from home, going through them, deciding which to post, and posting them.
In many businesses, the owner doesn't do all the work themselves and hires people to work for them often for less than 20 percent of the total profits. I don't know of any major corporation where the CEO pays the workers "on the ground" as much as 20 percent of the billions.
This reminds me of when I worked in the Nevada brothels. We got 50 percent of what we booked for, though less if they take out room rent and some also take out linen fees. Plus, we had to get tested weekly at our expense. The owners didn't do 50 percent of the work when we were in parties (the term for sessions in NV brothels) plus we responded to our e-mails which is equivalent to replying to DMs. They just provided us a place to work and kept it open with the money we made and split with them. Is 50 percent plus some money taken out for the extras mentioned a fair split to give management? Guess that depends who you ask.
Is it fair for production companies to pay performers $300 or $400 for scenes they (the companies) make several thousand if not millions of dollars off of? This issue of pay fairness can apply to all kinds of topics.
Edited by - Tessa on 2/1/2023 12:20:16 PM
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Feb 1 2023 : 2:08PM
It's probably pretty likely that anyone who has more than like 50K people following them on socials has someone doing the sex chat stuff for them. Not like they are sitting there answering 250 sex messages every day when they are shooting scenes and whatnot too.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Feb 1 2023 : 3:12PM
^ This I never thought I was talking to the actual content creator when I used OF, even when they would swear it was them. I think the biggest thing I hated about these chats with them was they always used stupid pet names with me "daddy" (yuck, never call me this), "baby" or "honey". This is the first time we talked and I don't know you. I just like to chat about normal stuff and learn a little about the industry and maybe I'll buy a clip or two. Please, no hard sell or treating me like a "goon" or "simp". As I said I was never the target audience.
How common is it that someone's OF timeline is full of posts/ads of other random girls promoting their channel? So annoying.
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Feb 2 2023 : 7:52PM
^^Same, man. Also the fake ingratiation and familiarity tactics are annoying as fuck, but that is why most people sign up. I really just want the option to preview and buy the latest videos performers have made.
Why is this so hard?
^This, along with the fact that there is no regular tagged clip store, is the true nuisance of onlyfans.
^ the lack of a store is a complete annoyance. I dont want to hunt down what video I want and then send some dm . I was checking out some posts from Lily Lou the other day on twitter and saw she has a Loyal Fans instead of OF. I havent subscribed or bought anything yet but the layout of that site looks light years ahead of OF. There is a dedicated video store with trailers! It also seems like it facilitates talking to the performers that OF has, im not intrested in that but it looks like its there. OF got to the space first but this alternative looks so much better for consumers.
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Feb 3 2023 : 11:02AM
^Thanks for mentioning LoyalFans, this looks way better. I might have heard of this before and just forgot to check it out until you said something. There are so many damned platforms now it takes a bit of effort to stay abreast,
""I reconnected with an old friend from high school who was on the OnlyFans platform making adult content. I was curious and also drawn to the flexibility that meant I could work from home around my kids' needs."
Once Lucy established her OnlyFans profile, she quickly began making a lot of money.
In July 2022 Lucy ... had over 3,700 subscribers and earnings of up to $2,500 per day. In the previous financial year, she made over $400,000 worth of sales."
"in December 2021, Lucy finally got the keys to her own home"
"Ten months after moving in to their first home, Lucy settled on her second property."
"After just 15 months of entering the property market, Lucy's OnlyFans earnings were sky-rocketing, and she purchased her dream 'forever home' for just under $1 million."
"I think many people assume that I'll just do this until I don't have to anymore, but I actually quite enjoy it. I enjoy interacting with subscribers. I enjoy meeting up with the other OnlyFans girls. It's something that has such a bad stigma attached to it, but it's actually such a beautiful and wholesome industry, so I'm planning on doing it as long as it makes me happy."
"My family are all really supportive. Some of them took a bit longer to come around and my mum didn't talk to me for a very long time. She's very conservative and religious. But now, everything's good and we can even laugh."
^ I hope it's true and wish her luck. Either way the article is good promotion, and here's her profile. $3.50 for the first month with a BG thrown in for good measure.
^ Well, as for all these unknown women claiming they make tens of thousands of dollars a month on OF, are there really thousands of men willingly paying $30+ dollars every month for images of someone they've never heard of that they could readily find on the internet for free?
^ Yes they are. I asked my question on womens forum, and this was a response I got.Again, I don't want go all MRA, but c'mon guys, when women play with us like this, far from seeing us as a friend or potential partner, they're actually laughing at us.
I think most men pay to support a girl, not for the value of the content. Men are kind and don't value money above intimacy or friendship even if it's all virtual. A lot of women take advantage of that online or irl, nothing new.
Some time ago I tried to befriend a pornstar and after weeks of unpaid chatting daily as a friend (no requests or anything related to their work) she cut me off abruptly. I think she hoped for a sugar daddy and played along.
I've never paid for OF, just taking free months here and there and it is always disappointing. I prefer to just get a VMG subscription.
On this this thread, I keep noticing men being presented as the nice ones and women presented as evil tempresses. Really? LMAO. Men don't care about money? Explain that to Donald Trump or Elon Musk. In fact, most billionaires and millionaires are men. How do men they pay their bills and living expenses with just friendship and intimacy? On average, men have more wealth and income than women, so claims that men (but not women) are more into intimacy and friendship than money are hilarious.
From what people are saying, it looks some viewers already are getting plenty for free. Somebody mentioned a porn star chatting with them for free for weeks and getting free months on OF but not compensating them afterwards. Words such as "scam" and "taking advantage of" are coming up much on this thread with little to no clarification of what this means. Like, if a customer takes advantage of a free month or however much free time with no intent of compensating the performer and just trying to get something for nothing, is that wrongfully taking advantage of the model? I mean, not even a small tip.
Speaking of scamming and trying to take advantage of people, here are some examples from the camming world:
-Viewer (typically a man) goes into free chat where there already is camera and tells the model (often a woman) "show me your 'blank' for 5 seconds and I'll go private for 30 minutes" or "give me a preview" and then I'll get a show when the free chat already is a preview.
-Birthday scheme. Viewer says it's their birthday and tells model to give them a "gift" by showing this or that or doing this or that. Simply saying "happy birthday" isn't enough and the model has no way of knowing whether it's their birthday. Even if it is, that doesn't mean they should be asking or demanding anything for free from cam models who are working. We're not asking or telling them to do their jobs for free when it's our birthday.
-"Let me help you make more money" scheme. Somebody comes into our chatroom saying they'll market us and help us make more money. Asks us to contact them on Instagram, Skype, or some other social media. Then, demands that we get into certain positions or do certain things for free.
Though this thread is about OF rather than live cam sites, some of what is being said applies to both. I have no doubt OF models also experience scams or people trying to take advantage of them in the ways mentioned above such as being told to give previews or freebees and being led to think the viewer will compensate them if they do (even though some OF and cam models do give some previews of videos and pictures and do give viewers some time for free) or people claiming to help them make more money if they do this or that for them.
How is it a scam when they offer a free month and you check it out without ever considering subscribing? Put yourself behind a paywall at all times, that's the way of doing business. If a women (who also happens to be a pornstar) chats with me for a month and we have a fun time playing videogames, I don't expect to have to pay at the end of the month. That's just socializing having fun in leisure time.
