Agreed. In the post dated today, she wrote a very long explanation. A very intelligent, albeit rambling one. She owns her shallowness and faults, but doesn't belittle the guy either. I've always found Penny to be a very smart, introspective woman who is very rational about life. In my perfect world, she wouldn't be SO into weed, but you can't have everything. Thanks to Creamfilled for the link too. I didn't know where she had gone.
^^^^^ I'm the bluemuffin she's constantly referring to. The new blog was a weak defense, I totally but respectfully disagree with you. It's intellectually dishonest. She plays the victim card and brings up a whole host of things that really make no reasonable sense for having been left out of the first blog about that guy if one is to believe her original version. And even had she included them, it still wouldn't have changed my opinion of her blog entry about this guy as being cruel and extremely shallow. I think she shouldn't have gone on the defensive like that. In fact, she digs a bigger hole for herself. There are so many contradictory statements by Penny, that I won't even begin to list them. Towards the end, Penny states that she shouldn't have to defend herself and that she freely admits she can be a shallow bitch. I mean, if that's how you see yourself, then so be it. You can't argue with that if that's her best defense, but she should have mostly left it at that. I'm not her parent nor am I a friend. I've never met her and I know very little of her life, other than what she shares, which does seem to be more than the average porn star. In the big picture, this is hardly a big issue. It was just a bit shocking for me to read and blogs are written to hopefully get some kind of reaction anyway. Something Penny also mentions in her new blog. I've really only watched adult movies for about 4 years or so and for the vast majority of the time, Penny has been far and away my favorite. I found her stunningly beautiful, whip-smart, unbelievably funny and self-depricating, and she really came across as NOT shallow. I guess that's the problem with being a fan of anyone-music, mainstream, porn, or whatever. You're bound to be let down be the reality that the person isn't likely ever going to be what you think they are and live up to your expectations of them. And I guess they shouldn't have to. It's still kind of sad, though. I do wish her the best, especially in her attempt to write a novel and get it published. That's quite "ambitious" of her. :) PS-the weed thing kind of annoys me too.
Edited by - CreamFilled on 11/19/2008 12:40:09 AM
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Taylor Von Bailey Deactivated User
2116 Posts 8/06
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 8:38PM
Penny is pretty funny and very hot...she's the hostess in a few of the Fuck Team Five episodes...probably the best reality site out there. She is so wild and outrageous and brings 100% enthusiasm to the camera so it's always great to see Penny. Perhaps one day she'll do a blowbang?
I don't know what's "shallow" about an independent, ambitious, and financially successful woman being attracted only to independent, ambitious, and financially successful men. It's no more shallow than if Penny were only attracted to handsome men, for instance. It's too bad that she apologized. The laws of attraction don't operate by a bunch of PC rules -- never have, never will.
How would you quantify what handsome is? That's one of the problems with judging another person. For the most part, you really don't know them and you are left with nothing but speculation and generalities. And what she wrote about really is the very definition of what being shallow is. In fact, she openly admits it. I agree with you, though, she would have been better off clarifying points if she felt compelled to respond to multiple e-mails that thought her response was insensitive or worse. But if you believe yourself to be shallow, then I suppose there is absolutely no reason to apologize because, clearly, you don't think there's anything wrong with it. I'm not stating Penny is bad or that she's even wrong. Just that I, personally, find open shallowness like that be an unattractive quality. I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. More than anything, I guess I was just surprised because my own personal opinion of her (which is totally my fault and not hers) was that she was one of the least shallow people in porn. I guess I'm pretty naive.
It's not a question of quantifying and judging; it's one of preferring and choosing.
I know within five minutes of meeting a woman whether I could ever be attracted to her. It's not just about her looks, per se -- people communicate volumes with their eyes, their facial expressions, their body language, their scent, their tone of voice, and the words they choose.
^^^^ Why do I get the feeling that you can't read, that you don't respect someone else's opinion, and just want to stir up something when there's no reason for it? I bet Penny would be the first to admit that she's hasn't been too "selective" in her past relationships, so you really need to get off this idea that I'm attacking her and you need to be her white knight. I'm sick of the issue...it's run its course, but, once and for all, Penny calls herself shallow. Not once, but numerous times. She knows what it means and you know it means and I know what it means. It's not like I magically brought up the issue of whether Penny Flame is shallow or not. She wrote two entire blogs where she calls herself a shallow b*tch. Those are her words, not mine. If you want clarification from her, more than she's already given, about why she thinks she's shallow and what that means to her, then ask her, don't attack me for having an opinion. It's not like I've personally attacked Penny Flame (god forbid). I'm not exactly sure what the point of continuing to attack me just because I find that to be an unattractive quality and was suprised not only that she called herself shallow, but that she WAS shallow.
Everything you listed is subjective. Maybe Penny doesn't know in 5 minutes if she could be attracted to someone. Believe it or not, some people fall in love over time and many people fall in love who say they never thought it possible when they first met the person. Preferring? Again, that's nothing but subjective. There are many hot women (that I find attractive) in porn or other places that like men that don't have a lot of money, that are all big and hairy, ride motorcycles, and have a tattoo on every inch of their upper and lower torso (which not my idea of attractive). There are many of the same women who like men who are clean cut businessmen (which is would my idea of attractive would be). There is no right or wrong. Again, what is handsome to one person is not going to be handsome to many others. The same goes with many other characteristics of human behavior. Penny or anyone else are free to do what they want, but my point is simply that judging someone before you get to know them isn't probably the best way of really and truly knowing if someone might be right for you.
Penny's awesome. I'm too bust trying to fuckin' survive to worry about other people's drama about other people's drama ... But it's amusing everyone's so goddam passionate about whatever's going on with Penny. Word to the wise, the sooner you stop trying to figure out women, the happier you will be.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 12:46PM
I'm going jump in here and say that I don't know whether Penny is actually a shallow person or not. I understand that she called herself that in her blog. However, the few times I've been able to have full conversations with Penny, I've found her to be incredibly smart, funny, and VERY self-deprecating. There's a definite possibility that she may have been saying it sarcasticly... Like she realized that what she wrote came off as shallow, so she's making fun of it. Who knows... that's kind of my point. None of us really knows what goes on in someone else's head. We're allowed to look at someone's actions and have opinions on those actions, but that doesn't always tell the whole story.
I completely agree. Although I'm going to add that your advice applies to both genders. People are complex. Sometimes the MOST complex people are the most interesting ones. Maybe sometimes more frustrating, but almost always more interesting.
Penny seemed down with minimum-wage guy - until he rebuked her. Then the insults came. She's fooled around with coffeehouse boys before so I don't think you can label her as absolutely, positively, irreversibly shallow. Her insults read as being defensive to me. More of a "well, fuck you then". Cream-filled's response reminds of those housewives that stop soap actors on the street and scream at them for cheating on their TV wives. Because when you've read Penny's blog for awhile (almost 2 years now), she does start to feel like a TV character you think you know - you forget she is a real person filled with idiosyncrasies and is not gonna follow some character description tacked on a script writer's board.
I admitted as much in this very thread about feeling like I knew someone, the way one might feel they "know" the lead singer of their favorite band and make judgements anyway, despite not REALLY knowing them. Still, what you describe is hardly uncommon and pretty much a part of human nature. Most fans, I believe, get to a point where they sort of "think" they know someone who is public or famous when they really don't. Also, I haven't read her blogs for 2 years. My very first post on this issue includes a comment that was something like, "if this just happens to be Penny's writing style and she's taken a true story and added her own humor to it, than I am wrong." I mean, going back to what Tricia wrote, I also agree that you never really know someone or their intent. It's my belief from what Penny wrote to me was that her intent was to be entertaining, as she always is, but also truthful about her shallow comments about herself. Maybe she just thinks she's shallow and she isn't. I don't f-ing know and I've tried to let the situation go, but Bob seems to have a hard-on about attacking me despite the fact that I never attacked Penny or did anything other than give my opinion. That's the same thing Penny did in her blog, so I'm not sure why my opinion is less important than hers. One last thing, this is an adult/porn message board. Just go to any other genre specific message board, like sports perhaps, and you will find tons of threads analyzing and over-analyzing the thoughts and behaviors of Tom Brady or LeBron James by people who don't know them. I saw the post about her blog and then I did what I thought was appropriate and shared my feelings about it in this forum. I didn't attack her or call her bad. I don't know what Bob is smoking, but I've never whined. I think if you carefully read what I wrote, it was respectful at all times and I always made it clear that is was my opinion and not one that I expected many people here would agree with it.
TVB, I see that you're a big fan of Penny. In fact, a gynormous fan of Penny Flame. I'm a fan of girl/girl scenes and also a fan of Penny, so I was wondering, which girls would you liked to see Penny paired up with? Edited by - matchmaker on 11/23/2008 4:16:10 AM
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Taylor Von Bailey Deactivated User
2116 Posts 8/06
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 8:10PM
Penny Flame is one of the best for sure Matchmaker. I would lvoe to see her paired up with Cassandra Calogera and Velicity Von. That would be at tremendous threesome. Audrey Bitoni with Penny Flame is another amazing combination to hope for. Jayden James would work fantastically with Ms. Flame as well. Maybe the best one yet...Mindy Main and Penny Flame. It would be an absolutely wonderful scene to have both of these beautiful babes together. So there's some of my other favorite girls to pair up with Penny. Here's some girls I'd love to see Penny dominate: Beverly Hills, Camryn Kiss, Claire Dames, Holly West and Tanner Mayes. Penny as a Domme is excellent. Hope you can make the match Matchmaker.
^Hey TVB! Cool, thanks for your answers. Hopefully, I'll be able to help out with matching Penny up with these girls someday. Yeah, I've seen Penny dominate before. I saw some sample pics and clips of Penny dominating a French girl at "Whipped Ass" recently. By the way, days ago, I asked Kristina Rose (in her thread) if she'd be interested in working with Penny and being dominated by her. Kristina said she was cool with that. Would you like to see Penny dominate Kristina? Also, which girl would you like to see Penny dominate the most (from your list)? Edited by - matchmaker on 11/24/2008 1:06:45 AM
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Taylor Von Bailey Deactivated User
2116 Posts 8/06
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 7:02PM
I'm not really a huge Kristina Rose fan but I definitely understand her appeal. She is a very pretty girl...just not my type. She is a great performer and definitely deserves to be recognized as an amazing girl. Having said that...I wouldn't be too interested in seeing Penny dominate her. I'd much rather see Penny Flame dominate my favorite girl...Cassandra Calogera. I know I have the other girls I listed as the ones I'd like to see Penny dominate but I'd just love to see Ms. Flame take control of Cassandra, spit on her, slap her around (especially her big titties) and show her who's boss. Cassandra has a bigger frame than Penny and I think when a smaller girl dominates a bigger girl it has quite the interesting contrast. Audrey Bitoni and Mindy Main would definitely be next on the list but they are definitely more timid performer and would likely participate in a domination session from Penny (but I can still hope). Claire Dames would be amazing to watch submitting to Penny Flame and would probably be my favorite out of the girls I initially listed to be dominated by her. Camryn Kiss is great and she would be next on the list and Tanner Mayes would definitely be under Penny's control without a question. I hope I kind of answered your question but yet again I am a little all over the place. So whoever would be down for it and ready out of the girls I said would make for a great scene...that much is for sure.
Hey TVB! Unfortunately, it says at the Type 9 Models agency that Cassandra is unavailable at the moment. The best bet for a scene would be Penny Flame and Claire Dames. I've seen Claire getting dominated before. I think Penny would definitely have fun dominating her. I could tell that Penny really enjoys dominating others. You know what? I saw some pics and clips, from a couple of other sites this year, where Penny got dominated. I was kinda surprise to see them because I'm used to seeing Penny dominate. It looked like see really got into it and had some orgasms. It looked hot! Have you seen those pics and/or clips before? If so, what did you think of them? TVB, you know I once asked Penny (by e-mail) if she'd be interested in working with Jewel DeNyle someday and she said yes. Both Jewel and Penny are known for being dominant with other girls. If Jewel and Penny did a scene together, who do you think would dominate who? How do you think the scene would go?
I guess I didn't write my reply very well because I'm agreeing with you. I have read Penny's blog for quite awhile and she's a total soap character to me. p.s. I don't know what Bob was smoking either.
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Taylor Von Bailey Deactivated User
2116 Posts 8/06
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 3:49PM
I would absolutely love to see Claire Dames being Penny's bitch. That would be awesome! I adore Claire and think she's one of the best in the business and having Penny rough her up would be incredible. I know Claire would enjoy it too judging by her enthusiastic and lustful performances...what a dame! I haven't really known Penny to be too dominant in her scenes but I do remember her being a crazy bitch in a trailer for Hellfire Sex. That looked intense but I never saw it because I didn't care for the other girl at all. As for Jewel and Penny...I think that Penny should be the submissive one since she is younger and sweeter and Jewel is definitely a total bitch in my mind. She would definitely be the more ideal domme in that pairing (though it would still be fun to see Penny work Jewel over too). Anything Penny Flame is good news so if she could be matched up with some of my other favorite girls I'm all for it. Matchmaker...make some matches man; the world would be a better place with more Penny Flame pairings. Oh yeah, Savannah Stern would be amazing to see being dominated Penny-style. Anything else? No, not for now but yes for later.
Hey TVB! Hopefully, this one will happen. Penny and Savannah Stern would be a great scene. Jewel and Penny would definitely be a hot one. Edited by - matchmaker on 11/26/2008 12:03:01 AM
TVB, did you check out these clips yet? I like how Penny gets sweaty in the last clip. How about you? Edited to say: By the way, which adult talent agency do you think has the best girls? Edited by - matchmaker on 11/26/2008 1:58:02 AM
I think this story needs to be shared. Penny was part of a panel discussion on Saturday at the AEE, and like Bobbi Starr, me, and several dozen other people, was foolish enough to think that the stage with the poster boards on the easels with the schedule of panel discussions was where her panel discussion was going to be. Silly us. (Though, of course, "silly" is always an appropriate adjective for Penny.) Anyway, that discussion had been moved to the Fyre TV stage. When I got to the first stage, Penny was the only panel participant there, and she had a bath robe on and had her own personal megaphone. She was having trouble getting the PA system on. They did succeed in getting the PA system on by the time Bobbi Starr joined Penny. Penny and Bobbi then moved farther away from me, onto the stage instead of around the sound board, and the limitations of my antique point and shoot camera showed more in the pics I took of them there, so I won't share those photos. We were then told to all go to the FyreTV stage.
^ That's adorable. One would think that Penny with a megaphone is a horrifying combination, but she looked beyond cute wielding it. I wish they did the panel on the seminar stage. At least that stage was actually well-lit, unlike the ridiculously dark set-up at the FyreTV stage. Plus, it would've been cute to see everybody pass Penny's megaphone around.
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Fernandez Deactivated User
781 Posts 12/08
Posted - Feb 16 2009 : 4:20AM
I saw her as a coming attraction in Mar., Lace Club in NYC.
Check out Penny in the Not Three's Company XXX trailer. She plays Janet and really is fucking great. http://www.notthreescompanyxxx.com/not3Sco%20HEADER.htm You might have to paste this in to see it on the Not Three's Company website. R-rated trailer. Enjoy.
So, I just saw Penny Flames recent Tugjob episode and it was magnificent. One of the best TJ episodes ever in my opinion. If you have a Bang Bros account, watch this movie. You won't be disappointed. It has it all. Dirty talk, eye contact(oh man she has sexy eyes), and she just does an amazing job. She looks even hotter then she usually does if you can believe that. Oh and her tits are some of the best out there folks. Great episode Penny. I miss you even more now. *****The Dr. of Nasty*****
Uh....there's no chance in hell Penny returns, in fact she denounces her entire time in porn as well. She's said multiple time she looks back on it and hates herself basically. ----Dread's Twitter----
Wellfrom an interview it seems that she doesn't hate herself, seems like she actually enjoyed porn. "I hate the common exit strategy, hate that girls join the 'god squad' or feel ashamed of the choices they made but I understand it. I can see that it's much easier to say 'porn did this to me, or that' but at the end of the day, we are all responsible for the choices we make. I chose to be a porn star. Now I'm choosing not to be. It's the beautifully terrible thing about free will: we can do whatever we like but we must be held accountable for whatever we do. Just because I don't want to be a porn star today doesn't mean that I should feel ashamed to have been one seven months ago. It's something I did and I'm not afraid to say I did it, loved doing it, and just don't feel like it's what I need to do anymore. Shame and guilt are useless emotions. The only way I would feel ashamed is if I'd decided being a porn star isn't what's best for me and then continued doing it anyway."
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JackSparrow Deactivated User
7235 Posts 7/11
Posted - Feb 16 2014 : 7:15AM
she did not regret that she was a pornstar ,she simply regret some things she did as a pornstar,thats what i understand in most of her comments,i mean its a difference if you do just plain b/g stuff or all the extreme stuff like gangbangs etc.
I still love Penny Flame, aka Jennie Ketcham as she's called in real life. One of the all time greats! Edited by - unreliable narrator on 2/16/2014 4:38:11 PM
LOL she regrets porn if she's doing anything with Dr. Drew or anyone from Celeb Rehab. Ask her when the cameras aren't really around, she'll say nicer things about her time in the industry.
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JackSparrow Deactivated User
7235 Posts 7/11
Posted - Feb 17 2014 : 1:53PM
^ and why you quote me then ? Edited by - jacksparrow on 2/17/2014 2:07:32 PM
I realize that 8+ years without a post is the definition of a dead thread but I'm sending out a 'message in a bottle' request for a porn rarity starring my favorite girl, Penny Flame. In 2007 she shot a video for an independent studio called DirtyRichFilms.com out of Las Vegas. Titled "America Loves Bush" it notoriously depicted then President Bush and Vice President Cheney with crude party masks engaging in sex acts with various pornstars. A 1:15 and a 5:26 excerpt of Penny's footage with Jack Lawrence as Bush are all that I have been able to find of what appears to be a much longer scene. I would very much like to find this film in it's entirety.
A look at the now defunct website through the Wayback Machine shows that the film was independently distributed and cost $30 for purchase in 2008. Payments through the site required a "Gizmo Card" - an onerous way of purchasing porn on the web for sites that couldn't get authorized by a major credit card provider. The website also linked to videos4sale.com (a related site to clips4sale.com that I presume sold physical media).
It is possible America Loves Bush was hosted on Videos4Sale (now defunct) or clips thereof on clips4sale but I cannot find any record of this. Given the difficulty of securing the DVD with the Gizmo card, the apparent lack of distribution in stores (although the DirtyRichFilms website said they were intending to sell in stores) finding this film may be exceedingly difficult.
If someone has it or knows where it might be found, please let me know, I would be very interested in at least getting a full version of the Penny scene for my collection. Thanks.