Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 12:23AM
^ C'mon now. You should know by now that everything is never anyones fault. There is always someone or something else that is the cause of all problems.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 12:27AM
For those who post out of ignorance and are to lazy to read previous posts in a thread: People who are unable to experience intimacy are usually sexually addicted. It's Dr. Drew 101.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 1:24AM
Oh I am so sorry. Dr. Drew said it so it must be true.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 1:30AM
^actually I 1st read it in Jennie's blog, Dr. Drew is way more qualified to discuss it then you are. Here start your education: Sex Addict and Love Addict Relationships Edited by - Clam Digger on 12/12/2009 1:34:53 AM Edit:typos Edited by - Clam Digger on 12/12/2009 1:49:04 AM
How can this be? He's A Guy On The Internet! Nobody knows more than those guys! Look how he criticizes a show he admits he does not watch. You have to be super-smart to do that. Certainly smarter than any "doctor."
Tiger may be a sex addict. He also may be a guy who is just a tool. I didn't listen to Dr. Drew's opinions but if he did imply or bluntly state Tiger is a sex addict, this is where I disagree with him. It appears that he considers any individual a sex addict if he or she decides to deviate from the monogamous model of long term relationships or marriage. ARe 20 year swingers sex addicts? I am afraid Dr. Drew would say yes and insist that they are just unaware of it.
That sounds too metaphysical to me. I still don't understand how Dr. Drew and his aide claimed that she did somehting horrible but she is not a bad person. I don't agree with teenagers having intercourse but I don't think they are monsters if they have casual sex.
My only point was that Dr. Drew appears quite often these days when there is any type of celebrity downfall, shortcoming, etc. I find it convenient that it often also promotes his current show--whatever that may be. I also find it interesting that he gives out pseudo-diagnoses based on news coverage. If I had a doctor who was prone to diagnoses with such minimal information, I would be sure to find a new one. He was careful enough to say that he shows the "signs" of...blah, blah, blah...but the way it came off, he was essentially saying that Tiger was a "sex addict"--or was highly likely a "sex addict". Is Tiger a sex addict? I have no idea. I'm uncertain as to how much I believe in sex addiction to begin with. But, even under the premise that it does exist, there certainly isn't enough information out there to make a realistic diagnosis about Tiger Woods from your living room.
All this sex addiction shit is obviously a coordinated effort to further demonize people who like sex more than someone thinks should be allowed. They will continue on with this shit until they've established it as something people don't question and then you will be a "sex addict" if you masturbate to porn. They've been pounding away at it in the media and people are now using the term like it means something. In my opinion, these people are attempting to destroy people's individuality and make them conform to their ideal and the prevailing social winds. It all points to that. Individuality has been under constant assault from all sides for a few years (It has been for a long time but lately, it's been much worse) and this seems to be part of it. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/12/2009 9:50:28 AM
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 9:48AM
I don't recall Dr. Drew or Jill saying that she did anything wrong. As I recall it was Jennie who thought it was wrong. And she was very emotional about it. Being less metaphysical about it, her behavior did cause her pain, as she has written in her blog. Eventually, on the playground, her class-mates made up little ditties about what she had done, and repeatedly sung them in her presence. There was graffiti about her turning up everywhere. Eventually her parents had to put her in a different school. I do believe what she did was more destructive to her then to any of the boys.
RandomPrecision: Well said. While there may be something to some of this stuff, I feel that you are right in saying that the vast majority of it is over-played and, either intentionally or unintentionally, a part of an attack on those who deviate from some preconceived notion of "the norm".
To me, the news media are guilty of what you complain about. But they do that kind of stuff all the time. They freak everyone out about everything from tv dinners to construction work to the doctors' office. That's why I don't watch much tv. When Dr. Drew is given the chance, he is very emphatic about stating that it's only when you can't stop the behavior and it becomes detrimental to your work, relationships, etc that it's a problem. It's normal to watch porn. It's NOT normal to spend 14 hours whacking off for 5 days in row when you should have gone to work or spent time with friends or family. It's NOT normal to habitually and compulsively lie to your wife about running to Piggly Wiggly for eggs and you go bang 4 lot lizards. These are bad behaviors. They always have been. Don't get upset because it's being labeled now. As far as Jennie crying about her early sexual activity. We have no idea what happened or how much coercion she used. If she feels guilty about it, something went down. It's the jokey, male thing to think there was no apprehension on the boys' part. Just like guys laughing about men who are physically abused by their wives.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 10:14AM
Obviously, regarding Tiger, there has been a lot of conjecture. The truth, half truths and out right lies have been blended, it does seem to me, into one big pot of soup. We do know, based on statements that Tiger has made on his web site that he did carry on multiple secretive affairs and liaisons with multiple women while married to a very beautiful woman. If one looks at the table referenced in the link that I provided earlier tattled, Sex Addict and Love Addict Relationships the following behaviors of sexually addicted people are listed: 1. Impersonal sex 2. Seeking instant validation with "perfect" others who are then found to be imperfect, resulting in serial, non-intimate relationships. 3. Involvement in relationships with codependents, resulting in acting out beyond the relationship. Based on the limited, accurate information available, Tiger's behavior does seem very similar.
This is what I was trying to get at - it was a confusing scene, alternating between Drew and Co. seeming to make her feel ashamed because of what the boys at school called her, and telling Jennie she didn't do anything wrong. They clearly cut some stuff out, and the way it was done made me suspect that Jennie's story involved some things that might elaborate on why exactly she felt she was a "monster."
Well, everything is being labeled now. They'll get around to something you do care about eventually. As I said, the goal is to completely destroy individuality and leave people with nothing but a group identity. Anything that defines you as an individual, separates you from a group or makes you incompatible with whatever they're up to at the moment will be targeted as soon as they spot you. I mentioned it because as I said, they've been doing it for a while but it's accelerating and there's definitely something big going on right now (As people like Dr Phil, Dr Oz and Dr Drew have gotten much more shrill in the last several years) I guess this doesn't sound bad if you don't place any value on yourself as an individual. Personally, it creeps me out. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/12/2009 11:44:29 AM
Maybe "label" wasn't the right word because it has negative connotations.
While I am in agreeance with you that the news media hype it up, I'm just trying to point out that there are people that do have sex addiction and it's not just bullshit. In no way am I a lemming which is what you insinuate in your post.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 11:58AM
Savoy & Gore Girl, It does seem clear to me that she was burdened by guilt and remorse regarding her middle school experience, but she herself was nothing more than a child. as well. Like her class mates she was under the age of consent. If one were able to assign fault here, which I don't agree with, all of the boys, as well as herself, would be guilty. She has said that she lost her virginity at 14 and thought it would be wonderful to let the boys, at least, know how cool it was. She was hardly mature enough to understand the consequences. I do understand that girls are held to a different standard then boys. when comes to sex, which I don't agree with. But she was no more then a child when this happened, and I don't think it just to judge her the way we might judge a mature adult. Which may have been where Dr. Drew was coming from, when he said that it wasn't her fault. Edited by - Clam Digger on 12/12/2009 12:01:44 PM
I just watched the very long preview clip for the upcoming episode and it looks like they finally kick out Kari Ann on the 17th day. She should have been gone after the first week, but that's tv for ya. Personally, I thought Kari Ann was never ready for treatment. She's gonna have to go through more crap in her life before she wakes up.
Apologies to any good intentions yet to be soiled, but I say "bollocks" to the whole affair. Springer-Check: This is yet another so-called "Reality Show" airing on VH-1, a Viacom-owned cable network that is no stranger to a cynical but very true programming guideline: The presence of porn stars and behind-the-scenes encouragement of conflict-baiting bad behavior is a relative guarantee of ratings success. Finally caught a peek at SEX REHAB with DR. DREW after all this time. I love Penny/Jennie, and wish her nothing but peace, happiness and prosperity in whatever she does. But she looks TERRIBLE on this show, and I would argue that the way she is being exploited for ratings by this program's producer(s) is arguably just as bad (if not worse) than anything she may have experienced while working as a mainstream porn model/performer. - Zen
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 12:22PM
But sexual addiction has nothing to do with the enjoyment of sex. The problem comes when someone is unable to establish a real intimate relationship with any of their various partners.
This is not about individuality. It isn't even about monogamy. It's about shame replacing intimacy. It's about an individual who can only seek validation through impersonal sex. The feeling, if you will that, that all wounds will be healed in a magical moment of orgasm. When sex becomes like the search for "the holy grail", then there is a problem. None of the participants were grabbed off of the street in a pied piper way. Their motives, at the start, may not have been pure, such as was the case of Penny Flame. But I think with a fair viewing of the show, there is no question that a transformation is occurring, without kool aid being served. Penny Flame has become Jenny Ketcham. Edited by - Clam Digger on 12/12/2009 12:31:51 PM
ClamDigger - I completely agree with you. I didn't mean to imply that it was her fault - just pointing out that we don't know why she feels guilty about it. Jennie said she was 12 when she lost her virginity. Those 2 years of childhood development between 12 and 14 make a big difference. My comment was mainly in response to people who think there is nothing unusual about 6th or 7th graders fucking each other.
nm. whew. saved by Clamdigger. Of course she was on something. Anxious, desperately bargaining to leave and come back. Just didn't know what. And didn't expect her to go back to rehab so quickly. I won't be watching. Edited by - savoy on 12/12/2009 12:39:57 PM
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 12:37PM
From the very beginning Dr. Drew thought that something else was going on with her and he did suspect a drug problem. I think that is why she lasted as long as she did.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Yeah. Sure. There's always some convoluted explanation for a very simple prejudice. You look at the people who are the targets of the "sex addiction" finger pointing and you will invariably see that it has been decided these people like sex too much. It's as simple as that.
And it often seems to be celebrities of some sort. Why is that? If it wasn't about individuality, they wouldn't be trying to manipulate the public in this way. People who have problems see a private shrink. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/12/2009 2:35:09 PM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 3:17PM
"Sex addiction" was invented as a p.r. ploy by baseball player Wade Boggs, circa 1989, as a way of lessening the fallout over his extramarital affair with Margo Adams.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 3:35PM
If you think that any of this is really about sex, then you have not been paying attention.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 3:44PM
I don't think that I will either. Though others may find the drug rehab show beneficial , I have already experienced it in my own family. I just don't want to go there.
What do you mean by intimacy? Is this simply being emotionally committed to a partner or establishing a committed relationship? Secondly, do you think that individuals could be considered unhealthy, if they decline to have serious and committed relationships even if they do not have sex outside a committed relationship? The reason why I ask is that it seems to me that the inference behind DR. Drew's axiom is that anyone who refuses to have a serious relationship is as unhealthy as the sex addict. He probably infers that the sex addiction is either a symptom of avoiding serious relationships or refusing to be committed in serious relationship. Do you agree?
HI black, I should have been more clear. I am really not into any one below the age of 18 having sex. So the only teenagers I approve of having sex are 18 and 19 year olds. Why? Ask yourself should kids have sex or adults? I prefer adults. If you are not old enough to handle a baby you really are not old enough to have sex.
^ But I grew up in a country where you are deemed old enough to consent to sex at age 16. In other countries it's younger. How do you determine how old a person can be before they can personally make a life choice such as having sex or having a baby?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 13 2009 : 4:01AM
I had a few (too few imo) great, positive sexual relationships with girls when I was a teen. I think those relationships were mutually beneficial. I know I'm still grateful to those girls. I think as long as the teens are reasonably close in age and behave responsibly and respectfully there's not only nothing wrong but something good about teens having sex with each other. I agree with Savoy that there's a big difference between a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old having full intercourse (and again, it is always better when the teens are close in age) and I can understand why a parent would prefer their kid wait until they're an adult but when you're a teen you're either depressed because you're not getting laid, or depressed because you are getting laid, I don't think there's anyway that kind of pain can be avoided.
I know what it's about. It's not exclusively about sex but it is about what amounts to brainwashing. Listen to what they're really saying and stop being distracted by all the drama and the bullshit. The participants and their circumstances and psychology are irrelevant to the overall theme and ultimate agenda. This is what I'm saying. I'm not arguing for or against whatever you think is wrong with Penny Flame or whomever it is. It's the entire concept of the show that is suspicious to me. Is this truly just entertainment? I say no way. It's blatant social engineering (As if channels like VH1 have been up to anything else for decades but it seems to be getting more obvious lately) and it's obviously very effective. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/13/2009 5:17:28 AM
I meant the difference in development in one girl. Not sex between two people of different ages. My bad if that wasn't clear. I just watched some bonus clip from this episode where Kari Ann threatens that Selma goes or she goes and the administrator responds with the final call is up to Dr. Drew. This is the opposite of what aired. I can understand that people who fire lie all the time. "I have no choice" "It's not up to me." "Just doing my job"...blah, blah, blah and I suppose that Kari Ann's sentiments could have changed but still - How many episodes are left? I'm about done.
^ Oh man, I knew it! The whole time he was saying "It's out of my hands," I'm thinking, really? Whose hands is this in? At least have the guts to say that you think it's wrong and then assert yourself.
There will always be those people that abuse a term. My best friend in high school - her mom considered you a drunk if you had a glass of wine with dinner. I know she's ridiculous. My friend knows her mom is ridiculous, but her mom is drop dead serious about it. I don't think VH1 programmed her. I am sure many would accuse me of being a porn addict because I spend an inordinate amount of time watching porn, writing about porn, researching porn, talking about porn. Porn is my media choice, but I don't stop my life in pursuit of porn. To me, that's the line that's crossed when it becomes unhealthy. Call it whatever you want. In fact, I think it would be cooler if they used the old-school terms like nymphomania on the show. How would that be for sensational? "This week on "Nymphos and Satyrs with Dr. Drew..." We know it's all a ploy for ratings, but I don't think it should be ignore that hypersexuality can be detrimental as can overdoing anything. A balanced life is a healthy life. edited to try to make my thoughts clearer. not enough coffee yet. :) Edited by - savoy on 12/13/2009 10:12:01 AM
Ha! That's a great name for a show. I was thinking the same thing about terminology - "sex addiction" is perhaps a poor descriptor of the actual condition. Every time someone brings it up as hogwash, someone always says "it's not about sex," which makes me think that the word "sex" shouldn't even be in the name. If it's about intimacy/relationships/sex then surely there has to be a more accurate term. But, "sex addict" sure has a ring to it, so it serves TV very well.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Dec 13 2009 : 2:50PM
^But sex sells.. Calling the condition nymphomania would imply that this is a problem exclusive to women.
Penny Flame @ Adult Empire
Posted - Dec 11 2009 : 10:39PM
