while being a big fan of vince vouyer's work, especially the one for 'red light district', i can't help but wonder why in the otherwise great 'xxx road trip 4' he would have to include 'behind the scenes'-footage showing how he puts one of his girls down. telling angela that she's really bad, she better go look for a job at mc donald's and apparently even making her cry. bad enough it happened, but why would he have to put it on the dvd? supposed to be funny or what? plus, i wonder if he had done the same with an american girl instead of a czech one. anyone else scratching their head?
If that is really what happens (and I don't have reasons to doubt it), then it's not only sad, but awful and obnoxious. Really typical of the imperialistic attidute of a few US directors. Stay home.
I really liked Vince's product but I have repeatedly read reports about him being this total asshole. Who knows how true that is, but apparently now he's stupid enough to document one instance of it on film.
I knew Vince Voyeur was one fucked up moron after I read how he and Lex treated Bisexual Britni like forcing her to do things she didn't want to do. I also read other stories of girls and it's obvious this guy comes close to being a rapist.
I wish Dion would fire his ass but it's obvious they're friends so I'm sure we will see Dion come to his defence saying he was joking around on this DVD and what a nice guy Vince really is bla bla bla. Whatever.
I don't like reading this,I haven't watched this dvd yet,I'm going to watch it,I think I better start paying more attention to what comesout of Red Light District.
No Ramsey,I won't come to his defence,actually I thought I was the only one that thought Vince was a total asshole,If this happen, this is wrong,and I will say something to him,I respect Vince and I think he makes some of the best porn out there,I just think all directors in this business,wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the Talent,the talent needs to be treated right.
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 10:18AM
Hmmm I just watched the BTS for the movie (XXX Road Trip #4 and the BTS was like 13 min long) and I didn't see anything disrespecting...
Only time I heard something disrespectful was when Brian, Erik and Vince are joking about how hard thier buisness is, fucking "ugly... uh beautiful girls" this was an obvious joke. He was running with Erik's statment about working at Wendy's and he just finished drooling over Julie Silver (as I was as well ).
There was something like this in Initiations #4 with Kacey, a scene started with her blindfolded and then for some reason she backed out of the scene. Vince then appeared on camera and talked about what a bad performer she was, called her a cry baby and then ran clips of the (cut short) scene with a baby crying-sound effect over it. I can understand a porn producer being upset with a performer that flakes out or backs out of a scene as this costs them time and money, on the other hand I didn't see what this added to the tape as Vince came off as being very harsh and overly critical, and put this viewer's sympathies very much with Kacey, even though she was certainly at fault. I guess what I thought was that this must certainly be part of the business, the producer should deal with it in a professional manner, even if the girl doesn't. This was one of the first Anabolic tapes that I ever watched; I didn't know whether to take this seriously or if was some kind of joke, I'm not sure that I know now.
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 10:24AM
ah... I'll look there then :)
Well sure enough he does.... This is unfortunate too, I liked Vince, but I can say I have lost respect... but that's not to say is directing is any less appealing. I have this movie in line to be reviewed, so I'm curious to see the scene. I was OK with him saying it was a bad scene, that's a personal opinion, but he stepped over the line when he insulted her by saying porn wasn't for her and she should work at McDonald's. Does Vince post here? Will we see an apology ??
This is in no way intended to defend the mistreatment of talent.We deal with 100's of different women in countries all over the world every year.This is of course by our own choice.The women who perform in the movies you people enjoy,generally have great attitudes and handle their job in a profeshional manner.Sometimes this is not the case. Girls will show up dirty hung over or who knows what.I have had complete strangers bring all their personal problems to the set disrespecting everyone involved, including themself.If you could see the reality (some days) the porn fantasy that you all enjoy would be killed. Come on now Ramsey, Vince close to being a rapist. I doubt you even saw the dvd in question.As far as forcing girls to do things they dont want to do Thats ridiculous. Vince is a bussiness man. Why would anyone waste the time. There are hundereds of willing women who enjoy the work.When I am faced with a girl with a bad attitude I just cancel the scene. Normally Vince does to
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 11:15AM
Mike I agree this is a business and we need to see that, but I wouldn't have let that slip out into the public. I mean I was an electrician for about 4 years and blew up a $4000+ transformer and was told that's the worst fuck up my boss has ever seen, to my face. Thing is I wasn't hung over or anything, but he did do it one on one. I like Vince (from what I see on RLD's DVDS ). Do I think he can be a dick? Yes. Can we ALL be dickheads? YES! I just think this should have hit the cutting room floor. As I said I like Vince's stuff still and this wont stop me from watching anything with his name on it.
mike john: it's obvious vince is your friend otherwise you wouldn't defend him and would blame the girls for his misogynist behavior. Your opinion is very subjective so it means very little to me.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 12:11PM
Comeon, Ramsey. Don't discourage Mike from posting because you don't agree with him. He's providing a valuable perspective. Your opinion is subjective too.
Could you tell from the scene what it is that the director didn't like exactly about her performance? And did the scene seem ok with you, before you saw the BTS footage? Just curious.
Sorry Steph but I didn't like the way he blames the girls for Vince's behavior. It has that 'old boys network' feel to it. At least Dion said he would talk to Vince about it and I hope he does.
Btw, I would like to believe my opinion is objective because I'm just a regular fan, I'm not friends with either the girls he insulted or Vince.
interesting question, renee. because the scene seemed good enough, and i was actually surprised to vouyer said it was the worst he ever filmed. i guess you're asking to know whether he just had to give some kind of explanation, had to tell people it wasn't his fault. but again, while it might be not the one best scene he ever shot it's definitely worth watching.
I have always liked RLD product and Vince Voyeur. I guess I would like to hear anybody else's opinion on this matter of the behind the scenes footage. I have not seen this DVD but may have to check out what the fuss is about. Sometimes things get misconstrued in pornland.
Ramsey, Steph is right, your opinion is equally as subjective as Mike's. What you meant to write is that Mike's opinion in this matter is 'biased,' because he is friends with Vince (whereas, you have no ties to any of the people involved and hence you feel your opinion is 'unbiased'). However, the fact remains that your opinion is still subjective.
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 12:35PM
well barrybrn, I always love RLD DVDs so I say check it out, but the "scene" in question is not very long, 2 minutes maybe. I would realy hate to see this overshadow the DVD, like I said it's in queue to be reviewed, but from what I hear its a good title already.
I haven't seent this movie yet, but what you describe often pops up during the credits or in bonus material. I have questioned it many times. I recent DVD I reviewed had male talent (Weed) berating a girl for whatever was bothering her about the scene.
I won't defend or attack Vince because as I said, I haven't see this movie. His Initiations series had a lot of these "judgements" and I had mixed feelings about them.
As for charges that he's a "rapist" well that's sad. I believe I reported two similar charges about other people in the industry and was ripped for it. Hmmmmm.
It's hard to judge without seeing the footage or seeing the whole thing. I would never say that a woman deserves to be treated badly, but unless you were on the set, then it's impossible to know what happened. (I saw Jasmin St. Claire on set for example...whew.)
Maybe people just aren't ready for this kind of stuff. Some are. In fact, some people flock to it. Max makes his living on it.
I've seen little "encounters" between Vince and the girls included in a few titles over the years, beginning with Initiations #1.
He often comes off as kind of arrogant, "God's gift" to women sort of guy, but other times he comes across as amazingly sweet and generous. It's funny in Anabolic's Kacey comp that came out on DVD, because they repeat the bit with Vince denouncing her but then stamp Vince as "FAILED" and make a comment about "some directors don't know how to get performance out of their talent" or somesuch. It was pretty funny, an obvious swipe from the old employer, and then, as scene after scene with Kacey unspools, well, it really does make Vince look pretty mean.
When he's on, he makes some pretty good porn, but I can imagine there are some girls who avoid working on his sets, just for personality reasons.
I'd part company with you on that. An opinion is by its very nature subjective. We make judgments based on the information we have and filter it through an individual bias. Not saying it is right or wrong but I for one always get nervous when people tell me how objective they are.
Max Booty "Making people struggle a little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."-Sen. Rick Santorum, Pennsylvania Republican, warning against the idea of child care as an entitlement.
At least, in a Max Hardcore film, a viewer knows from the get-go what they will be watching, misogyny with a capital M. On the other hand, this Road trip movie sounds like it’s just a garden-variety gonzo film, made in Prague with Eastern European women, not something where a viewer up front would be expecting to see this BTS footage of Mr. Vouyer insulting the actress, especially if it doesn’t fit the tone of the rest of the film.
Okay, Mike John, I can understand where, on the day of the filming, a director can get angry with an actress, for whatever reason. However, this footage made it into the film weeks later, when it was being edited, plenty of time for the director to calm down. And I assume the director approved the final copy before it was sent out to be replicated. It’s got his name on it, so he must have chosen to have the insult in there, for any viewer to witness.
If there really was a serious problem with the actress, then her booking agency should have been informed. What good does it do anyone, for us fans to know all about this stuff?
I’ve also seen bonus and BTS footage, where among other things I’ve watched an actor call a woman a fucking bitch as he shoves her off of him (for what, it’s not clear), seen a crowd of men laughing at an actress as her eyes are stinging from the cum shots, and seen women referred to as whores, when they are out of earshot. Makes for some pleasant viewing.
It’s funny, I was just about to rent two RLD titles (I like Erik Everhard), but now I’m reconsidering. For the time being, I’ll stick to spending my dollars on Evil Angel, Evolution, and Zero Tolerance. They seem to have a lot less of this stuff.
Mike John, you are right, the porn world is not a very pretty one.
As the owner of Red Light District,I will say I have watched most of the stuff that came out of this place,and as we have grown,I don't watch as much as before,but I will say this about Vince,He cares more about his product than I ever seen in the 7 years I've been in this business,I say Vince is "Firm but Fair",Vince would never Rape anyone,he gets to many Girls without having to rape them,he is filming today,so I will watch this and than speak to him about it.
As a viewer, my viewpoint pretty well echoes Renee's and Skronkers. I've found some stuff of Vince's to be enjoyable, but I dare say it's usually in spite of Vince's "environment" rather than because of it. But in general, I avoid his work because there just seem to be too many awkward and "unpretty" moments between him and the performers. I mean, I'm not trying to say this isn't a difficult business, but the bottom line is that I see a lot more directors who handle talent in a more favorable and respectful way than I've seen in Vince's work. At the very least, they seem to keep the ugliness on the cutting room floor where it belongs. I'll stick with them, thanks.
Renee you are right including such footage is not needed,and seems mean spirited.Ramsey you might want to read the first line in my original post again. it was not meant to excuse.When I first read this post I wanted to offer some insider info, not defend anyone.Once again there is no excuse for mistreating people.When you start name calling and making false acusations regarding rape and forced sex acts, I feel the need to speak up.
As a moderator though, let's please, please drop the "rapist" remarks and the reactions thereto. This is hyperbolic and unnecessarily inflamatory and is starting to grow into something that it shouldn't.
He should care more about the talent he works with like showing them a lot more respect. These are human beings with feelings, not just some piece of meat he can insult and hurt.
I can't go along with that at all in light of the observation that Renee made:If what Renee writes there is true, then that would suggest that Vince can't accurately be characterized as "firm but fair."
As far as the Aspen Brock scene went we showed what really happened not what everyones fantasy about what happened might be, if people can't stomach the reality of porn I don't know what to say. Sometimes you have to accept toads warts and all. Joe Millionaire is probably more your cup of tea.
Not to get stuck in the middle of an argument that isn't even mine, but if you saw many of Aspen Brock's scenes, she was a walking psychodrama, and for the scene in question she insisted on continuing even though she is clearly given the option to stop. I agree that taking enjoyment from this episode is a little sick, but I thought it interesting that they left it in, warts and all. The whole "bonus footage" craze, which I endorse fully, means that viewers are increasingly going to have the option of seeing a porn shoot -- "warts and all." Holy Jesus, I haven't even seen what the new Anabolic regime is gonna be unloading on DVD any second now with Chico Wang in command.
I kind of like "warts and all." But, I also think Vince has cultivated a kind of "mean man" image. If that's what he wants, it's his persona and really makes no difference to me as a fellow human being. As a porn consumer, though, I'm happier when he's off-camera -- one reason his recent POV-style stuff has been quite enjoyable. I don;t sense that he's some terrible guy; he just comes across as an old-school working class kind of dude who calls his shots and takes his lumps. But, yeah, it may be that this approach he takes has steered me to other directors, given the choice. And that said, the last 2 or 3 really enjoyable RLD purchases I've made have been Vince titles (or Vince Voyeur productions titles, sometimes I'm not sure if he's the director or the puppet-master).
Ya know what I find amusing? All guys talk shit about girls to their friends. Any guy on this forum to deny it is a fuckin liar. At least Vince has the balls to show it on DVD or whatever. Cheers Vince put it to them!
Hm...I guess you'll just have to call me "fuckin' liar" then, cuz I really thought about it... and I can't remember ever doing what you're describing. 'Course there's a trade off there, I guess. The nice guys don't seem to get laid a whole lot. :)
ANYway--don't want to side track the thread... I guess I just don't concur with Cal's sentiment... nor do think it does much for Vince's defense... But, to each their own, as we always say. As we've already covered, you kind of have to take the "good" with the "bad" in this new age of behind the scenes extras, and I'm all for that--there's a fair amount of "good" out there!
Mike L. -- Chief ADT Dumbass, and a "Fuckin' Liar"
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 10:19PM
I guess that Vince Vouyer the director is very much like Vince Vouyer the performer. He was always very arrogant and full of himself. He was capable of delivering great scenes when motivated, but sometimes he just turned the scene into his own private joke. Watching him in so many Anabolic productions it seemed like it was an inside joke about his selfishness. As has been stated, leaving in an abusive moment is not new. I remember him kicking a performer off the set in Initiations 1, and to this day I couldn't tell if it was staged or not. Probably not. In the end, if he makes entertaining porn, people will continue to buy it, which is de facto support.
the scene in initiations 1 was staged, I shot it. Do you really think mainstream porn companies could get away with this type of shit for very long? man people really love bad news weather its true or not.
I remember watching an Anabolic video with Vince and there was a scene with a European woman who couldn't speak english. There were 3 guys fucking her in the scene, including Vince and it showed a shot of them laughing amongst themselves about how they could call her anything and she wouldn't know what they were saying. And then Vince made some really awful comment to her while smiling and she was laughing and nodding because she thought he was being nice and just joking. It was horrible and such a turn off. And the whole idea behind that Initiation series is fucked up. There this whole nasty tone to those Anabolic movies that I don't like, and not the good nasty. Hmmm I doubt they'd ever, ever show a shot of a porn girl laughing at the size of some guys dick or making a derogatory comment about him.
What I find amusing is the way you come up with excuses to defend vince voyeur.Yeah, it takes a lot of balls for a man to insult some poor girl on the set. I guess vince voyeur is a real man......
Have you ever been on a set ramsey. have you even seen this movie? you didnt answer.You personally dont like vince,even though you dont personally know the guy.I find it unbelievable you find yourself an expert on something you know nothing about.You are watching movies ramsey you dont know the people in them or the situation behind them. I imagine you dont care.Your concern for women is enlightening but confusing at the same time. You recently posted being a big fan of midnight prowl(khan is my friend by the way but I dont try to defend him). you also said you like seeing the girls fuck the ugliest men possible.some might concider the behavior on that site to be mysoginistic, after all do you think the girls like fucking derilicts.Ok Vince so was wrong in your opinion great. I dont agree with you on anything yet have managed to aviod name calling. you do seem to be one hell of an arm chair expert
You’re right, lots of guys talk this way about women, that’s not news. But something that is a private conversation disappears into thin air once the words are out. When a conversation ends up on a DVD, that’s going to sell between 10,000 and 20,000 units over time, that’s a different matter. Plus, RLD lets people download videos from their website, so even more people can watch their films.
The net effect is that people will watch the closing credits on this Road Trip film thousands of times over. Literally thousands of people will get to know that poor Angela should be working at McDonalds, just what porn fans look forward to.
Bad stuff happens in other entertainment fields, even the high class ones . I was in classical music choir in college, and the conductor didn’t hesitate to swear at us, or storm out of the rehearsal hall, or pick on someone. Some conductors throw the music when they are angry . Some of them throw the music stands when they really get going .
BUT, when people pay their money and come to the concert hall to hear their favorite music, none of this happens. People just want their entertainment , they don’t want to see the grief that went on behind the scenes. Just some food for thought.
Posted - Oct 31 2003 : 8:29AM
