Why is them doing scenes with white guys a problem? There is also a lot of insisting on white females doing black men, otherwise they are considered racists. Besides, anal, gangbangs etc. is also something people ask from white women...
Skin Diamond (I know she’s bi-racial but that’s black enough), Marie Luv, and Megan Vaughn all have been mentioned as examples of Black female performers who still do get a good amount of work. I love them all—especially Megan Vaughn with her oh-so-suckable tits! One of my favorite scenes is with Megan, Leilani Leanne, and Mike Adriano where he spends a lot of time licking both their asses and sucking Megan’s perfect tits! It’s Video Viagra! LOL. I also greatly enjoyed Skin Diamond’s recent work with Rocco Siffredi! Rocco is a legend and has had many black guys in his movies; but I have criticized him in the past for doing so few scenes with black girls (or mixed black girls), so I hope his work with Skin Diamond will start a trend for him. There are lots of very attractive African (mostly Nigerian) and mixed-black girls in Italy—(ala the now retired Aurora Jolie) especially in Turin.
I think it may be profitable to evaluate why these 3 girls have bucked the trend and found success in the business while overall work for Black girls has declined. A few things I think they all have in common are: a) Skin Diamond, Marie Luv, and Megan Vaughn all have that combination beautiful/innocent look. b) Skin Diamond, Marie Luv, and Megan Vaughn all have slender (but shapely) body types. c) Skin Diamond, Marie Luv, and Megan Vaughn are all very versatile performers who can perform a wide array of types of sex scenes. Of course if the aforementioned similarities are a winning formula for black girls, it begs the question as to why their like contemporaries; for example, Tila Flame, Rihanna Rhimes, Angel Cummings, and Bella Moretti, all seem to have disappeared. Edited by - fred g. sanford on 6/29/2014 8:55:31 PM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 29 2014 : 11:42PM
Yes, using ad hominems is childish. So I would be too if I had done that, but I didn't. I'm not denying my words. I'm denying yours. My point remains valid. I have no idea what yours is. You say that the major companies shoot black performers. Really? When? Where? Megan Vaughn has only scene on Brazzers, in which she starred with another black girl, Jade Aspen, who has been on the site only twice. Megan also has only scene on Naughty America, while Jade only has two. After doing a search to see whether Megan has ever shot for Wicked, Vivid, or Digital Playground, I only found one scene for her from Vivid, none from the others. Aside from Mike Adriano, who is one of the only white directors who regularly shoots black girls, the majority of her scenes are either for black directors, or for companies that specifically shoot BF/WM content. The numbers are similiar for most other black pornstars. So to reiterate, if your argument is that shooting one or two scenes a year with black performers means that these companies have no problems shooting black pornstars, then I guess you're right. But in the real world where we use common sense, we know that isn't the case. If these same companies can shoot 50 scenes a year starring Lisa Ann, Krissy Lynn, Phoenix Marie (all of whom do IR, by the way), and other white pornstars, then there is no reason that they should only be releasing fewer than three scenes a year, on average, starring black pornstars unless the porn industry is racially segregated, which it is.
So what's your theory on why those companies refuse to shoot black women so much less than the white? Do you think they're doing it just out of a hatred of black females? Do you think it's because they don't want those girls to be successful? Do you think those movies with black females make as much or more money for them as the ones with the whites and they ignore it? Do you think they're getting fans asking for more black women and they just refuse to give those fans what they want? There must be a reason a studio or director wouldn't give fans what they want if the demand is there.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jun 30 2014 : 12:18AM
Not saying racism doesn't exist in porn but the definition is not the same as it was 20 years ago. Today what is going on in porn is more cronyism than racism. Black women are still locked out but so are some White, Asian, Latino women. It goes back to why Skin gets so much work, it is not her race or looks, it is because she is on the inside. Other Black women have her skin color but they don't have her connections with studio heads. The point is cronyism, selfishness is hurting the industry as much as racism probably more. Bottom line if the industry doesn't change it's casting, make it more inclusive it won't be around much longer.
Sure you did, and everybody who can read knows it. I'm not denying my words. You don't have to deny your words if you can just deny what they mean - that's Politics 101: quote: What is silly is trying to derail the point by nitpicking semantic errors that were never even used, which means that you're obviously not giving serious attention to the topic. How frivolous and persnickety of me. Now, I grant you that bopping me might be within your rights if you had refuted my points, but you haven't. You've either ignored them or tried to shout over them. You say that the major companies shoot black performers. Really? When? Where? IAFD is your friend. Though we haven't agreed on who "the major companies" are, the site's listings are enough to demonstrate that your complaint rests on an exaggeration that I say misses the mark. Frankly, I wouldn't care if it weren't for the fact that you can't correct the situation until you've identified the cause - that's Politics 102. ,,, If these same companies can shoot 50 scenes a year starring Lisa Ann, Krissy Lynn, Phoenix Marie (all of whom do IR, by the way), and other white pornstars, then there is no reason that they should only be releasing fewer than three scenes a year, on average, starring black pornstars unless the porn industry is racially segregated, which it is.
You want to take the individual records of Lisa Ann, Krissy Lynn and Phoenix Marie and compare them to the average number of scenes shot with black female performers and you don't see the problem with that? Golly. These companies may have a very good reason, one which, unlike your explanation, also allows for them shooting Skin Diamond and some other black females as much as they do.Yes, I'm talking about profits, again. How... erm.. American of me. Now, if you want to complain about them discriminating when it comes to their target audience; if you want to decry their marketing skills then you may have a point, and I'd be happy to join in if you can make it. Not having seen any sales analysis, I couldn't say. As for me, having repeated myself often enough, I'm out.
As i was watching old reruns of the Richard Pryor Show, i decided to take a little break because my stomach was hurting like hell i was laughing so hard. So i just happen to log on here and i saw this topic. I figure i add a little something to this being that i don't come on here often and this topic interested me. First and foremost, u have to take in consideration that there are a whole lot of DVD companies out of business and a lot of internet companies as well that used to employ the sistas, so the work has decreased across the board, as some white girls that u saw often are not easily seen anymore in DVD movies, so u know the work has dropped for the sistas, now that being said, most new black girls have to understand in this time right now, you better come in with guns blazing or you are gonna be wondering why your phone isn't ringing, because if u are not willing to do more of the hardcore edgy kind of scenes, you won't work as much, PERIOD! Sure they will get the new BG girl shoots because they are new, so they'll make the new girl rounds, but after those wear off then what? And u have to take in account that most of the sistas leave the business really fast, or they're in and out, and once u do that director's forget and move on to the next talent. So they don't really get to market themselves properly. See the old school sistas knew how to market themselves correctly (even though there were a LOT more studios then) and they didn't come in the business looking for big paydays, they worked their asses off and EARNED THEM and that's why i always brought back the old school sistas like Sierra, Obsession and the Sky Jolie's of the world to show them what it is to be a star.. Everyone that watches my black porn knows that i shoot ANAL with them because THAT'S WHAT WAS SELLING and i try to explain that to this day to the Black female talent that calls me looking for work. If you're not doing anal it's gonna be tough to beat out girls that do like Skin Evanni Solei, Cherry Hilson (who should be bigger by the way) and now Marie Love has come back, so that drops them further down the list. Believe me, i love all the sistas in this business, and as long as i continue to shoot, i will always shoot black on black until i'm gone from this business because there are some gorgeous black girls out there that need to be seen! But the bottom line is, it's just not that many studios shooting like there were from 2004 - 09 to keep them working. But that means that they have to work harder now than ever before. Just my take, now back to Richard Pryor, i rambled enough. Edited by - el tea on 6/30/2014 2:43:09 AM
^ Thank you very much for your inside view LT .On the subject I own two of your latest works , but I'm not limiting myself to them , even from the cover it is seen that there are a number of very good looking black girls, also Layton Benton is the latest update at Chongas paired with a black guy , also newbie Anya Ivy is seriously hot , and is getting a decent amount of work.anyway here are the covers , good movies both and , of course , I own your Skin (and have to add to those who think Skin is in the "inside" of anything that she's been in the business for years she worked her ass out , she only got her super star status in the last two years , with hard work you should notice that her very close friend , white actress Asphyxia Noir never reached her level they both share the same connections , yet only Skin reached such an high consideration. Edited by - LCF on 6/30/2014 4:17:26 AM
Thanks so much for sharing your inside perspective, LT! It was very enlightening and confirmed a few things I had suspected. Let's hope the new Black girls on the seen will heed your advice. By the way, Cali Sweets, Layton Benton, Anya Ivy, Anila Avana, and Cherry Hilson all look sexy as a muthafucka! Damn! I'm going to be looking for them.Let's hope they perform as good as the look. I assume they all did anal for you? Edited by - fred g. sanford on 6/30/2014 9:17:29 PM
we the people in order to form a more perfect union... 518 Posts 12/03
Posted - Jul 2 2014 : 12:36AM
also there is the matter of pay scale. it is usually lower per scene for black women than for white women. whether it is a standard boy/girl, bbg, anal, dp, or gangbang black women are paid less per sex act than white women.
Again, I think we need to look deeper than race when it comes to this situation. Your observation (and I'll accept that it's true) depends on which black women and which white women you're talking about. Currently there are probably only two black women who could claim they really move product--Skin Diamond and Marie Luv. Compare those two black women to all the non-black women who also move the numbers and it's only logical that most black women in Porn would and should be paid less. They have to establish that they can also move product just as Marie Luv and Skin Diamond have done. It would be the same in the mainstream. It's not about who's just as good an actor or even better than...say...Sly Stallone. I thought Phillip Seymour Hoffman was one of the great actors of all-time. However, it's Stallone who moves box office numbers the most and commands the bigger paydays. I could be wrong, but I think the Porn Industry is run by smart business people who look more at numbers, than ass--or race. Now, is there probably a culture in the Industry that undervalues the earning potential of product that features Black girls? I think that's very likely. Is that racism? No. That's economics! Economics which would dictate that Black female based product would have smaller production budgets, lower performer pay, and, however, greater possibility for large returns on investment. That's why I think companies should invest in revitalizing the Black Female porn genre. The real problem on the Industry side is that they don't know how to market Black Girl Porn. It's so interesting to me that the Industry has long understood what turns people on about Black men but has yet to figure out the formula for Black women---weird. Edited by - fred g. sanford on 7/2/2014 6:30:54 PM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 2 2014 : 11:04PM
With the possible exception of the last reason you provided, I don't think any of these account for the actual reason. I think the real reason is that most of today's porn simply has a formula. That formula is boring vanilla sex with vanilla white pornstars. The formula is bland, tired, and uninteresting, but it is apparently the formula that most of the industry is satisfied with producing right now. Anything that diverts from the formula is seen as either being "too risky," or not having enough of an appeal to the larger audience. Thus, everyone is doing the same thing. Gone are the days when there were directors who were willing to shoot different types of content to appeal to different tastes and niches. Now, everyone has to do the same thing everyone else is doing, which is one of the tragic downfalls of porn in the last few years. So, if you're a black pornstar, you're chances of getting work for white directors is very low, leaving them limited to shooting mostly for black directors, or for those white directors who still occasionally shoot black pornstars, and there aren't many of those white directors left anymore.Yet, the only one trying to start a fight here is you. Why is that?I haven't denied anything I've said. Now, if you have a problem accepting what I've said, even after clarification is provided to help you better understand, then that's your problem, not mine.Yes, it seriously is. I have no idea why you insist on playing these silly games, but I'm really not interested in playing along.What exactly is the problem with that?
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 2 2014 : 11:08PM
The older companies controlled distribution for a long time and they did not let many Black women in the game. The ones who did get in were basically willing to do what they were asked to do. Most of them were submissive and did anal, gangbangs, etc. But Black women now are not that submissive so they walk after a movie or two. The internet changed distribution, it not as important as it once was, combine that with today's Black woman, diverse market, and the older companies are lucky to still be around.
I agree with your first sentence that states that for people making porn it's about numbers and what's most profitable for them. Fans, on the other hand only care about what they want to see and many convince themselves that what they want is what most people want and that the people making the product don't know what they're doing. Much more often than not that mindset is wrong. The people producing porn even if they love their job are doing it with the intention of being as profitable. Fans can sit at their computers all day and say what's best for porn and what "people" want but the studios and directors know exactly what sells/works and what doesn't because they know exactly what product of theirs sell best. So even if messageboard fan "ILUVFATBLACKASS" can get a few others in a thread to agree that having more black female product out there will help save porn, that doesn't mean it's true. There's not a whole lot of evidence to sugggest the masses are craving more black female porn in general. I've been to lots of porn shops and never seen evidence that black female porn was a big seller for them. I see listings of the most popular porn movies and there's never much (if any) black female porn on those lists. I come on this messageboard and see all these discussions on IR, anal, rough/extreme porn, etc..., but don't see much about black female performers and when I do it's usually the same handful of people chiming in. When it's a negative discussion about how black women aren't getting their fair shake it seems some of those people are mostly posting because it's another chance to put down the porn industry moreso than support black female pornstars. In the pornstar forum I see people getting excited about the popular and newest white female pornstars but I see very little black women mentioned. From what I gather this site has many black members and yet there's little talk about black females...that says a lot. I think unfortunately watching black females isn't that high on most of porn watchers list in general. I think there's definately a market it for it but that market isn't as big as some have convinced themselves. If it was we'd see more black female product out there. I find it hard to believe any studio would pass up profits just to maintain some sort of agenda to keep black females down. The fact that "black" studios like WCP, BLACK MARKET, BLACK ICE, MERECENARY, etc., put out much more IR content than stuff with black females should make it obvious which sells more. The black female product probably sells okay but probably not well enough to make more of it and be as profitable. For the major studios that do use black females in their productions I'm guessing they're frustrated by having such a small pool of usable talent to use. It's not as simple as just sticking a black woman in their movies. They have to find black women with a look that their audience will find attractive. Next they have to find a black woman who do what they need them to on camera. That might be harder than you think. I don't see a whole lot of black women being slapped, spit on, manhandled, having a guy put his foot on her head, anal prolapsing, etc...so for some directors/studios that means there's a lot of black women they won't be working with. The whole discussion about black women being paid less is a waste of time. Porn isn't like being hired at a factory making widgets or having an hourly job in most of blue collar America. The porn pay scale is based on what people are willing to pay you to work. A black female can set her price to be $5000 per scene if she wants but it would just mean she'd probably never get hired. There are black female performers that make more than some white performers and the reason is because they're seen as being a bigger draw to fans and thus are more profitable to a studio. They make more because they make they're worth more of an investment for the people making the movies. Just like in Hollywood, sports, music, books, etc...Halle Berry probably doesn't make as much as Cameron Diaz but does make more than Linsey Lohan. If you don't understand why that is then you'll never get this whole black female porn thing. I'll never understand why some fans worry so much about pornstars pay in the first place. Hey, if any fan wants back females in porn to make more a good start would be for them would be to actually pay for the movies they appear in and support their work. Edited by - draxxx on 7/4/2014 8:54:58 AM
^ I Agree with you for the most part (I don't know if I am one those you referred to when talking about those who think there's a market for "black" performers bigger than it is , this should be clarified) But I think the great misunderstanding here is a market for "black " instead of a market for gorgeous ladies who happen to be black. Skin Diamond is the current black superstar , but she's not marketed as a black woman , she is placed into black compilations, all black movies IR movies and whatever movie but for the most part she is just in there as a woman. She stars in some feature movies without even stating she's black nor anybody say that in the movie (for example 3 Way or Runaway) , my point is none of them should be marketed just as a "black star" Misty Stone hasn't and her relatively low notoriety only depends on her will to do limited performances on screen (no anal, no dp , no circus) rather than being black, Marie Luv went to the same path although much wilder , she's so far far the only black performer that I know of who was put as main star on a Digital Playground movie cover,this meant a lot. This happened because she was perceived as a hot woman, attractive and a fine and strong performer , that is why. Skin Diamond again is the only black performer starring in a Mandingo Massacre issue an exclusively interracial series and nobody complained , why? Because she's hot . The whole point on "black marketing" those black performers is a limitation the true thing would be put them in a movie , just that , Jules Jordan does this, Rocco does this, Nica Noelle did this, Vivid sometimes does. There's a market for big assed girls but for some reason it is divided in two , white big assed and black big assed , also most of the times it is IR with whites but very rarely with blacks (females). Megan Vaughn as an ass no different than that of AJ Applegate just put her as it is an attractive woman with a certain body type not just a "black phat azz" woman as you put it, it's pointless , those attracted to one may very likely be attracted by the other too
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 4 2014 : 11:56AM
^It's interesting to me that the three pornstars you mention, Skin, Misty and Marie, have similar body types. I wonder if they aren't marketed as black because they do not fit the popular physical stereotype of black women - thick with huge booties. This might also be relevant to your observation:Perhaps PAWGs are marketed separately because they are considered unique? Black women on the other hand hand are expected to have big booties. I'd guess that most black pornstars who are marketed as black (unlike Skin, etc.) have large backsides, though I can't say that with any certainty. Edited by - misspornUSA on 7/4/2014 12:03:31 PM
I'm talking in general not to anyone specific. Some may or may not apply some things you said. I'm just commenting on the general vibe I get from this thread and others like it. This topic has been discussed before elsewhere.Sometimes yes and sometimes no. She should be and often is just a woman and other times a black woman depending on the production. Sometimes her being black is an asset, sometimes it doesn't matter, and sometimes it's a hinderance.What you say is true but you're talking about the top black female performers of the last few years. Girls like Skin, Misty, Marie, and Jada have transended being only seen as "black" performers while many other black performers haven't and never will. Looks and personality play a big part in that. I could see Skin starring in a feature from VIVID or even DIGITAL PLAYGROUND but there are many many other black females who just wouldn't fit in that corner of the porn world. Could you see Cherokee D'ass in a DIGITAL PLAYGROUND production? Yet in "black" porn she's a big star. It's the same thing in mainstream media. When you ask white or black people who're the hottest black celebs you get the same 4 or 5 women named. It's no coincidence that Skin, Misty, Marie and the few other black females who have big success in porn fit that same mold.Big white asses isn't seen as common as big black asses and is a niche section of porn that happens to sell fairly well. It's also thought of as porn genre that works best with black men. Lots of white men like big butts but I believe those movies probably sell better with black males. Certain combinations just sell better. I don't think an all black feature would sell nearly as well as an all white one. Did those "WHITEZILLA" movies do as well as the "BLACKZILLA" movies? I don't think an all black bondage movie would sell as wel as an all white one. White male on black females don't seem to do nearly as well as Black male on white female. It's just the way it is. Of the top 3 ethnic type of women in porn (Asian, black and Latina), I think Latinas fair the best at being put into movies without their ethnicity being mention simply because they blend in with whites easier. Black and Asians stand out much more and some people will automatically see their scenes as interracial wether race is mentioned or not when their paired with another race/ethnicity. Some people don't mind this...some do. Edited by - draxxx on 7/5/2014 1:16:05 AM
^ I concur it is the way it is, but is there anything that could be done to change this? A new interest may add new lines of sales it is in the best interest of the Industry to follow the path or even better to track it. the MILF genre wasn't as big as it is now , some of the greatest stars today are MILFs. My point is how to increase the opportunities for black stars? I said if you market them as black then only those who look for blacks will buy their movies , if you just market them , then maybe even those who usually don't look for black performers may look for an actress and at least rent an all black movie (which is basically what I do, I follow performers not race I happen to like some (many actually) black performers)
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 5 2014 : 9:56AM
Can make this about the rise and fall of Black women in porn but everyone seems to acknowledge all-white porn is not that great. So will the industry adapt, that's if its not already too late, or keep churning out the same product and hope consumers buy it anyway. It will be interesting to see what they decide.
Anything's possible but I don't think we'll ever see an overall explosion of popularity of black female performers in porn. We'll always have the black women who become true stars but I don't see black female perfomers becoming the hot thing in porn. If it did happen it would have to happen in the "mainstream" and then porn gravitates to it and exploits it. Just as big butts/curvier women, certain looks and MILFs were popular in mainstream and then porn started to emulate those things with it's own spin on them and they became popular genres in porn. If something like that happened with black women in the mainstream it could perhaps result in porn picking up on it but I don't see that happening. But I could be wrong. Porn goes through phases where they just try doing stuff to see what sticks and sometimes they luck up upon something that sticks for awhile or becomes part of the norm. But with the porn biz in such bad shape these days the people making porn will probably just stick with what they know works.The MILF genre is popular as it is because it really appeals to multiple fans for multiple reasons. For some fans the appeal is seeing an "older" woman. For some it's the fantasy of seeing a younger guy with an older woman. For some it's seeing their pornstars from their past star in current stuff. For some it's seeing a certain look and body type (most MILFs are busty and curvy). There has always been porn with older women but the MILF thing didn't take off it porn until mainstream made it a thing first and porn figured out a way to make it work by actually putting "younger" hot women in their 30s-40s in the scenes instead of the "grannies" they used before for older woman/younger guy porn. Also, the MILF thing took off because it was for awhile the barely legal stuff was hot and porn was doing so much of it. People were ready for something different.I don't know if it's possible to make races/ethnic groups more popular. In porn it's usually sex acts and body types that gain popularity. For awhile it was all about big boobs. We're still in the big butt stage. Curvier women are more popular than the thin "model" type bodies that were the standard for so long. Bukkakke(sp) was the rage for a short time. Girls licking cumm off a plate, glass, or floor was in for a time. Anal prolapsing got some people excited for awhile. For a time gangbangs were all the rage. With the exception of black males I don't see any point in time that blacks, Asians, or Latinas just had a major surge in popularity over all beyond a few key players. The Euro girls and Brazillians had a mini surge but that was because that product was suddenly available in the US and other than a few stars they never had a huge following overall.
^ I see, well I don't want to promote "ethnic/race genres" I'd like to see black stars the same way Latino are , I mean there are many Latino themed stuff yet there are a lot of Latino girls in mainstream porn and nobody cares , yes there are some body types who are typical but even those aren't exclusive. I mean who would note that Keisha Grey is Latino? who would even think about it while watching at her ? Same for Skin I'm pretty sure that everybody would cease to think she's black or to think for that matter the very moment she begins to perform in a scene , sure her accent helps , but it's not just that. I mean could it really be that those who like Sarah Vandella don't like Megan Vaughn? I'm talking about all kind of viewers , very likely they would , it's the same body type , none of them is mainstream but many like their features separating those body types into two markets is dumb in my view. There's a new star Anya Ivy who is gorgeous , extremely cute , big natural titted , a body incredibly well proportioned and does anal it's been marketed either Latino or Black , she's probably mixed but , the girl is really something , yet another incredibly hot girl who is almost unknown
What do you mean? And who is everyone because I don't fall into that at all. I don't really care about the race, a good scene is a good scene. Just curious what you mean about this.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 5 2014 : 2:57PM
^ You are on the thread and the consensus here, though unspoken, is porn is on a suicidal path by omitting Black women. The scene may be more important to you but its obvious you would like to see Black women performing them. Even reading other threads in the forum there is a majority who thinks porn is bland, one dimensional. It seems most consumers want Black women in porn they just don't admit it.
He keeps saying all over the board that the downfall of porn is due to the lack of black female performers and the Industry producers did this on purpose for racism Piracy is not a problem he seems to be impervious to any reasoning other than his own Also you obviously agree with him through "unspoken consensus" and because you have not the courage to admit you want black women , and apparently so do we all
Edited by - LCF on 7/5/2014 5:06:07 PM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 5 2014 : 11:17PM
I got a total of 27 post so I cannot be all over the board saying the fall of porn is because black women don't get roles. I was merely pointing out that the rise and fall of Black women [which was not my idea for a thread] coincides with the rise and fall of porn. There is a consensus throughout this thread there are many Black women who should be getting roles, Ivy Sherwood, Serena Ali, Jazebel Vessir, Jade Aspen to name a few. There are several reasons for the decline, like I said earlier cronyism is probably a bigger reason than racism. I also said the fate of porn depends on casting women of all races.
Thanks for the interesting comments MissPornUSA, Draxxx, and LCF. They got me thinking more about how Black girls are marketed; so I decided to put together a little spreadsheet to compare them to the non-Black girls. So, I compiled a list of gonzo female performers including their measurements and years active. I also wanted to make sure to include girls who had over 100 titles because it usually denotes a decent amount of longevity in the business. Now, I'll be the first to admit that this is not comprehensive or exactly scientific, but I did find some very interesting trends from just this small sample: 1) It seems that most Black girls do not reach over 100 titles in their careers, so I had to really dig deep to find them. 2) Contrary to what I expected and what most fans would assume, there seems to be no real advantage in a Black girl having a big ass (over 36 inches). In fact, only two Black girls with asses bigger than 36 inches appear in the top 50 girls with the most titles, Carmen Hayes (42nd) and Beauty Dior (49th). And Carmen Hayes is known more for her big tits then her ass, but more on that later. 3) It does appear very advantageous for a non-Black girl to have a big ass (over 36 inches). There are nine in the top 50 list including Bobbi Starr (4th), Dana DeArmond (6th), Alexis Texas (8th), Flower Tucci (9th), Mika Tan (11th), Kelly Divine (22nd), Luscious Lopez (24th), Naomi (30th), Nikki Sexx (38th), and Alanah Rae (48th). 4) It also seems that a non-Black girl does not really have to have a big ass (over 36 inches) to be marketed as having a big ass---a 35" or 36" is enough, as Katja Kassin is ranked #1 in titles but I was surprised that her ass was a very normal 36 inches. 5) It seems MUCH more advantageous for Black girls to have either a slender hour-glass frame and big tits (C-cup or larger) or just a slender frame. In fact most Black girls had a 2:1 ass-to-waist ratio without their asses exceeding 36 inches. Jada Fire, Dee Baker, Marie Luv, Misty Stone, Obsession, Sinnamon Love, Jeannie Pepper, Kitten, Janet Jacme, Adina Jewel, Havana Ginger, Sierra, Angel Kelly, and Nina DePonca all made the top 50 and all fit the aforementioned body types. So it seems the porn viewing world likes to think of Black girls as having big asses but actually prefer them without big asses. Therefore, it seems, in order to have more Black girls become successful in Porn we first need to bring in more of them who are slim and with nice big tits! Are they hard to find, I wonder?
Because as I mentioned Latinas can more easily get away with blending in with white female pornstars. You keep saying don't promote them as black but that really won't change much for black women who are obviously black. Just because skin color isn't mentioned doesn't mean people won't suddenly not notice or care that a girl is black. Skin Diamond can appear in non-race themed JULES JORDAN movie without the words "black" being used to discribe her but that doesn't people will not see her as a black pornstar. Some of those people not actually care that she's black but they won't suddenly stop seeing her as a black pornstar. Directors who hire the girls won't suddenly stop seeing a black pornstar as black just because she isn't promoted as one. If Skin is as close as porn has as a black pornstar who is promoted as just a pornstar it isn't working that well for her because she still hardly is cast in typical all white productions. Yeah, she appears in a few non-black movies where race isn't an issue or promoted realistically not that many as compared to girls I'd consider her white peers. Or maybe she does and I'm just not seeing it. I personally don't even think being promoted as black/Asian/Latina is a negative. For some girls being ethnic is a good thing because often it means they have a niche to exploit. If there was a pole asking black porn veiwers who their fav black pornstar is I'm thinking Skin probably wouldn't be the top choice even though she's probably the most popular in "mainstream" porn. It's a double-edged sword. The bulk of Skin's popularity may very well come from the fact that she's the black pornstar of the moment.I don't think so. People could be thinking "Hey, here's that hot black girl about to do a scene...". Perhaps that's what makes her appealing. It's like having Bonnie Rotten in a scene and thinking if you don't mention her tattoos people will suddenly not see them. Perhaps when Skin shows up in a movie where her color isn't mentioned she's stll there because she's black and adds diversity to the movie without it being said.You keep talking like skin color doesn't or shouldn't matter to any porn fans when it most obviously does. It's not the evil porn industry or "racist" studios/directors or people in porn keeping black women down because they dont know what they're doing. It's the porn audience (among other things). The demand just isn't there in in great numbers. If the numbers were there someone would've figured it out and exploited it by now. If black female based movies were a big seller we'd see more more of it by now. It's not like porn makers are afraid to jump on something and beat it into the ground if it's successful. There's an audience for black female porn but it doesn't seem big enough audience to sustain a large amount of product.
For the mainstream white audience a lot or most of those veiwers prefer the thin body type of a Skin Diamond, Misty Stone, or Marie Luv. In ethnic titles (which generally sell fewer copies) big butts are more popular. Pinky and Cherokee D'as big stars in that niche/market.It's less common for white girls to have the type of big butt that fans like in those type of movies so the ones who do have a big butt have another asset to exploit and do well in that genre. The genre is so popular that some girls who don't really have that type of butt get casts it those movies just to give the audience more girls instead of the saem ones over and over. Also, it's obvious that the measurements given on some pornstars aren't accurate. Plus, you have to consider the overall body type of the girl. 36 inch hips one one girl might not be big but on a shorter girl or a girl wih a smaller waist or body 36 inches can be considered "big". Nina Hartley has a famous big butt but I don't think her measurements would indicate it.
There is a massive flaw in this sampling though. You utilized the appearance numbers from IAFD, but failed to subtract the numbers from compilations. IAFD does not list all compilations so for some a heavy number of compilation scenes could be missing. To try to see actual trends, you will need to subtract known compilation numbers before looking for trends. That aside, you also have correlation without causation, as many factors that could influence hiring are not looked at.
The debate and arguments proves nothing. At the end of it all, all that matters is the marketing. It's tougher for black women in the porn industry because 1) there aren't a lot of them; 2) as stated before, most of them only appear in "black-only" porn; 3) some agents of black female stars don't appear confident to book black female talent to most major studios. if they were, you'd see more black women in your favorite studios. It's all about marketing. I'm sorry to say, white women present a stronger marketing image because she's universally desirable. I'm not saying white women are better than white women, but in the world of marketing, particularly porn, the white woman is the ideal image. If you add extreme sex appeal, you have the attention of everyone and every ethnicity. Black women are equally beautiful and equally capable of being an outstanding sex symbol, but the studios understand the parameters of marketing. Yes, this is a different world, and any woman of any ethnicity can draw in porn fans. But the agents have to promote their black female talent in a way that shows a strong demand for black women. As of now, the only demand is coming from us, the fans. We voice our concerns for more black women in "mainstream" porn. We should complain about the agents. These ladies hire these people to get them booked. As far as doing "white-only" and "black-only" movies is beyond me. I guess it depends on a woman's comfort level. She may be afraid to "black-only" because some ladies get booked with a seriously large black dude. And in porn that's far from enjoyable. I imagine the experience is painful for the woman. And it's like most of you said, it hurts a porn actresses career when she will only work with one ethnic group.
^ Can you define "major studios"? Because at least three of them always hired and still book a lot of black women , Evil Angel, Jules Jordan or Elegant Angel are major studios all , were and still are and they have all either hired black women with white directors (Mike Adriano has no problems hiring black girls neither have Jules Jordan nor Dana Vespoli) and of course none of their black directors had over the years (short list for all the mentioned studios: Justin Slayer , Brian Pumper , Alexander Devoe , Sean Michaels , LT , Lexington Steele , Mimefreak ) Milehigh Media (which is a big studio ) does too there's plenty black girls in their sweetheart series (again Dana Vespoli is the most keen to book them, but Nica Noelle did too and still does for Candy film) Filly Film also does (again Dana Vespoli , but also Lily Cade and now Diana Devoe which BTW always did ) and I'm not even talking about black companies here. I'm not denying what you said but we should define who we are talking about
well you just answered your own question. "major studios" or "mainstream porn" are studios and corporations that produce mass amounts of dvd and virtual content. again, this is just my opinion on what it is, you may have your definition for it. When you talk about Sean Michaels, Mike Adriano and Lex Steele, you're talking about directors who worked under a large corp like EvilAngel (mainstream). But Evil Angel, Jules Jordan, and Elegant Angel can't speak for all mainstream mediums. As a matter of fact, not all black woman can depend on one particular studio (except if they are under contract). Justin Slayer hasn't put anything out since November 2013, and this probably due to the overwhelming overhead of contracts, marketing, and piracy. It happened to Lex Steele when he owned Mercenary Pictures. If fans want more black directors and black female talent, speak out. Go to places like twitter and instagram to voice your opinion.
All men of all races do this, you want something different then what you see around you every day. Many of my black friends don't watch any black on black porn(I do comp repair, I've seen their collections and internet history) Same with my hispanic friends and relatives, the reason is as stated, you see your race in and around your neighborhood all day every day, but it's not always even possible to find a really hot girl of another race that will even give you the time of day where you live.
No man I know what a major studios is but yous said thisSince I named 4 major studios who actually hire a good number of black actresses i just asked what major studios are you talking about , I don't know the exact proportion but there are many more non black performers than black out there (Asians are possibly even hired less than blacks but they fall in the much higher number of "non black" along with Caucasian whites , Jewish whites, Latino whites , Arabian Whites so nobody notice ) it is only normal a disproportion especially if as stated by LT above some give only limited performances. Point is those studies do hire black stars , so to what studies were you referring to? as for me I'm very vocal on this board about wanting more black stars , for years and I'm supporting this buying stuff , hell I'm even the only supporter of director Diana Devoe here
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oldboi Deactivated User
205 Posts 3/10
Posted - Jul 6 2014 : 8:18PM
Couldn't agree more. There's nobody doing Black Anal anymore. Seriously, when was the last time WCP put out a Black anal title? Really miss LT. Black girl dirty talk during ANAL is a "GO TO."
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Cloudburst Deactivated User
392 Posts 1/14
Posted - Jul 6 2014 : 10:52PM
Not sure if this is relevant to this thread but as a guy who only watches white performers I always wondered if there was a difference between female white porn stars and black porn stars when it comes to sex. Anyone notice any difference (in general of course, not saying ALL white women are one way and ALL black women are one way) when it comes to sex, for example are black girls more aggressive/submissive, more into anal, more/less open-minded, etc?
To answer your question, black women tend to be far more sexually conservative early in their careers than non-black girls.It seems to take them a bit longer to become good performers.However the ones who stay in the business long enough usually grow into very good to great performers.I think the reasons are largely attributed to Black culture. Blacks in America tend to focus more on basic subsistence than strategic thinking and building. Therefore they usually first have to overcome the tendency to approach everything that brings them any kind of potential financial gain as just another hustle, rather than a business. On screen, I think this kind of attitude manifests itself in mosts black girls' early performances feeling more like trick/hoe encounters rather than mutual fucking and enjoyment. However with non-black girls you can see their awkwardness in front of the camera but they still can convey the appearance of genuine sexual enthusiasm for their male partner. Case in point, recently I've been watching the work of two new "black" girls, Cherry Hilson and Cali Sweets. Cherry Hilson (below) is very enthusiastic about sex and her scenes were all good, but she seems just a little awkward, at times, about whether she's doing things correctly. That's unusual for new black girls. Then I saw a scene where she was speaking fluent Spanish and I knew then that she was so open because culturally, she's not black. Cherry Hilson is someone to watch now and follow long term! Cali Sweets (below) however is the opposite. She is also a very hot looking girl but it's clear to me that she's kinda just going through the motions right now and just trying to get her some paper. Rarely does she appear connected, at all, with her male partners, particularly with white male performers. Physically she has all the potential to be another Marie Luv but she needs to start bringing her A-game or stop fucking with people's money.
To be fair to Cali Sweet, I just saw here performance in "Black Cherry Cheerleaders: A Gangbang Movie" and she was into it this time. She was engaged, creaming all over the multiple cocks (Kudos to the director for not cutting out any of the cream! Why others do it I will never know?), and displaying realistic enthusiasm. This scene is good for one decent nut. If this represents her most recent b/g work than she looks to be on the rise, which is good news for her and those of us who'd like to be fans. Keep it up, Cali. I also hope this series continues. I'm usually not a big fan of black on black productions but this was well-done and the guys were into fucking the girls rather than just talking shit to each other. Bravo!
if only producers wouldve hired her more.. her and Megan Vaughn pretty much announced on My Free Cams that theyll just be doing webcam-only shows from now on,so it looks like no more scenes from either
If true, I'm very sorry to hear that Cherry Hilson and Megan Vaughn are out of porn. Megan was awesome in everything she did and Cherr had loads of potential. I did just discovered a new Black girl I hope to see more, Ivy Sherwood. She is FINE as a muthafucka! And I mean that as the highest compliment. I would suck them titties and eat her pussy like they came from Häagen-Dazs! If she performs as good as she looks, a whole lot of viewers are gonna need skin grafts for their dicks! Here's her pic:
Ivy Sherwood will probably leave soon. Don't expect Jazebel Vessir, Cali Sweets, Anya Ivy, Jade Aspen, to be around much longer either. Studios should pay them Misty Stone, Leilani Leeanne and Rihanna Rimes whatever it takes.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 19 2014 : 5:00AM
You're probably right. Ivy Sherwood is sexy, but she is not exactly "new." She's been in the industry for probably about a year now. But it's not surprising that people would think that she's new because she hardly has any scenes. Also, considering that most girls don't stay in the business very long anymore, especially if they're not getting work, she probably will be leaving porn altogether soon, if she hasn't done so already. The same goes for the other girls. As much as I would love to see Anya Ivy in a lot more scenes, I don't know if I should look forward to that happening, which would be a shame because she is definitely one of the hottest girls in porn right now. I doubt that we'll see Jezabel Vessir in anymore B/G scenes. She did one for BangBros. But she doesn't seem like the type who is really into it. So I'm guessing that might probably be the only one we see her in. Are Leilani Lee and Rihanna Rimes even still performing? I thought they had been quit. Edited by - realtip on 7/19/2014 7:22:26 AM
^ Ivy Sherwood first went as Surewood then went on hiatus , then was doing G/G only and very few B/G were out (like three in a year ) then she announced she was going G/G only but was shooting some B/G , Dana Vespoli hired her a few times ,and so did Lily Cade for Filly Films. Also Dana Vespoli works for Evil Angel and Mile High big studios both could be a way to get more work I don't think it's just her being black what is preventing her to work more, her availability seems to be erratic at best Even I have some difficulties to track her scenes , and I'm a fan since her first appearance Jezebel Vessir did a Glory Hole Initiation appearance at Dogfart , Anya Ivy is the wildest of the new stars along with Sophia Fiore both could REALLY do much more and both can be marketed as Latino Anyway there are some issues coming around with black stars some of them new to me , for example I find this Skylar Nicole hot very interesting here from New Sensations (look at the rest of cast too) and this from Dana Vespoli is simply AMAZING , look at the cast here , just incredible , look at the cover alone: Edited by - LCF on 7/19/2014 8:04:24 AM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 19 2014 : 7:46PM
Leilani and Rihanna did leave but they would probably come back if the money is right. My point is the industry should pay them more if it will keep them around. Like it would worth paying Misty Stone to do anal or to get Jade Aspen, Ivy Sherwood, Jezabel Vessir to work more.
Posted - Jun 29 2014 : 3:47PM
To be fair to Cali Sweet, I just saw here performance in "Black Cherry Cheerleaders: A Gangbang Movie" and she was into it this time. She was engaged, creaming all over the multiple cocks (Kudos to the director for not cutting out any of the cream! Why others do it I will never know?), and displaying realistic enthusiasm. This scene is good for one decent nut. If this represents her most recent b/g work than she looks to be on the rise, which is good news for her and those of us who'd like to be fans. Keep it up, Cali. 
