That's because it basically is. You see. Most of the people who are anti-porn are disingenuous. They don't really care about the people who work in the industry at all. All the points they'll bring up are excuses for the fact that porn (in and of itself) just offends their delicate sensibilities and they don't want it to be made at all. They don't want improvements in working conditions. They don't want the women to be treated with respect and dignity. Their mission is to stamp out porn completely. For the sole reason that it exists at all. It's pure hatred and intolerance. You can't debate that. Even if you could, somehow, expose all their excuses as such, they would march on and find more. And there are plenty for them to pick and choose from. They're never going to stand up and be honest about what their issues with porn really are. They will grasp at and cling to any excuse, no matter how seemingly insignificant. And in a society in which open and frank sexuality is always controversial, bad, wrong, shameful, they will always have the majority on their side. That's before you ever even get to some of the things they throw up as their arguments.Again. There's a difference. People don't jack off to Extreme kickboxing, Wrestlemania, Extreme Fighting, or whatever you want to suggest. At least, most people don't. Not physically anyway. There's a lot of mental masturbation going on all over the place. But that's a fuzzy area that's hard to prove and a lot of people won't admit. And generally, the participants of these "sports" are male. When and if they're female, they are usually paired with a female opponent. Males are never victims unless they're kids. Females are always potential victims. If a male does anything to a female that can be construed as the use of force, violence, brutality, rape, or anything, really, she's automatically the victim even if she agreed to do it, doesn't care, likes it, encourages it, signs a disclaimer and/or tolerates it for the sake of pay. She doesn't have to say "I'm a victim". Whether or not she feels like a victim doesn't matter. The bottom line is that a man did something to a woman that offends other people. And here's the problem. I can't say categorically that I don't support spitting and slapping and choking, bondage, domination, spankings and rough sex. Because to me, that falls in the area of free will and free speech. The minute a porn advocate concedes to the argument that this or that shouldn't be happening at all, the battle for free speech is lost. Because then, all it takes is something that offends people and they can whittle it down, chipping away until all porn is basically out of bounds. I can say that I don't support it if the woman in question hates it, doesn't want to do it and is somehow coerced into doing it. But how can that be proved after the fact if the director said she had no complaints at the time and now she's saying she didn't want to do it, complained and basically had no choice? Who's right? Somebody is lying, apparently but who? I can't say porn directors would never lie. But I can't say women never lie. Err on the side of caution and take the woman's side? A lot of people will. But if you do that, what's to stop a lot of women from abusing that kind of blanket trust?No. It's not black and white. But a lot of people think in black and white. I would say a wide majority of people do. Look at mainstream entertainment for example. The most popular entertainment always has a guy who's pure evil and a guy who's pure good. This is how people tend to see the world. It's probably the biggest problem with Democracy. There are only two possible answers for every question. People are either supremely righteous or supremely evil. Any given thing is either completely right or it's completely wrong. Now that isn't how everyone thinks but the minority always ultimately loses. Those who are in the majority know it and they don't hesitate to wield it as though it's the supreme truth.
Edited by - randomprecision on 12/9/2007 6:12:42 PM
I think for me the biggest problem here is that nobody seems willing to stand up and fight. I mean for me the fact that nobody has gone out to debate these people ever is kind of a tacit way of saying we're wrong and we know it. I don't want to debate politics here but the torture example comes up. The fact that the subject is skirted so often is damning in my eyes. If I ever break into the porn industry (which I hope to someday accomplish) I'll be the first to go speak directly to Shelly and anybody else. We shouldn't be sitting here letting her take pot shots at our freedom, and for those of you in the industry at your way of life and your profession. I know it often feels like a waste of time, but it's not like you can't find some time to waste.
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Tobin Deactivated User
450 Posts 11/07
Posted - Dec 9 2007 : 6:45PM
Shelly sez- Today, Shelley lives in Bakersfield, Calif., with her husband Garrett and their three daughters. It was not always like this, though. For many years, she was a call girl, an "adult film" actress-and a mental and spiritual wreck. But the Lord pulled her out of that wreckage—quite literally—and set her on the right path, with a new mission. What is that mission? She says, "I want to talk to parents, youth, and the Church about the deception of Satan and how subtly his plans are to destroy the family unit. Satan hates families and comes to kill, steal and destroy from anyone who allows him. The good news is we don't have to allow the enemy into our lives anymore! The Lord gives us great and mighty strategies to fight the good fight of faith and keep our families and children safe."
You know, it's been several thousand years that we've all heard about Satan, over and over again - can't we give that ol' chestnut a rest? I mean, at this point Satan has been so useful to people like Lubben that I think he's on the Catholic Church payroll!
acutually we need to get her to fuck and suck richard mann and Shane diesel and she will shut up for a bit because she will be so sore, actually when her daughter is of age i bet u , u will see in her in a great film like My daughters fucking blackzilla, or gangbang girl
Porn starlets often get exploite, ripped-off, and abused by unscrupulous pornmeisters. Maybe if the girls were treated better, fewer of them would join Shelley Lubben's crusade. Food for thought.
While I don't think she can speak for every woman in porn, I think it's pretty shitty to automatically disregard her message. I read her biography. For one thing, she started out as a prostitute. That definitely put her into an unhappy mentality. For another, I'm not sure she did porn for very professional companies and WAS probably treated badly. And finally, she did porn in the early 90's and I think the adult industry has changed towards women quite a bit since then. I have no knowledge of the industry other than what I've read, so I might be wrong. And while these born again, fundamentalist "christians" are a bunch of pain in the asses, what's the harm if it's made her a happier person? And if her story is true, then the industry definitely did a number on her. Who knows? Her experiences might keep a lot of naive, weak-minded people out of the industry, girls who can't handle the kind of life it leads to, so what's wrong with that? We all know that there are too many people out there who are going to ignore her anyway in their pursuit of "easy" money. So what's the harm? Fact of the matter is, she can do a lot of good for people, despite her faults or hypocrisy.
Indeed. If you look at the fact that even here, most honest people will admit she has some valid points, you can imagine how persuasive her arguments are to people who are already predisposed to hating porn.
She was in Roxy: A Gang Bang Fantasy and a movie with the 'Cumm Brothers' by Rodney Moore. She was not that hot even back then. She and her hubby want a reality show and one of those tv ministry shows.
Okay, the quick, easy money plus the sort of people that one can come into contact with from performing or working in the industry can fan the flames of addiction (drugs, alcohol, eating disorders, sexual addiction) or bad habits, like getting into trouble with the law. Conceded. But, it doesn't make the industry 'bad'; these people coming in already had problems and it always their choice on how to deal with it. Cytherea and Tiana Lynn were both addicts coming into porn. Tiana realized the error of her ways and corrected herself. Cytherea did not get away from drugs and bounced out of the industry (it wasn't just pregnancy that threw her out of the game, she was out way before that).
I wouldn't be surprised if she discovered she could make more money speaking out against porn than she could ever make as a pornstar... America is a wonderful place where it's possible to say many stupid things and get filthy rich from the attention it gets.
Considering the turnover of girls in the industry, and the horror stories you hear now and then, I'm surprised that more girls haven't hooked up with Lubben. From what I've heard she provides them with food and shelter for a while after they've left porn, a better retirement plan for an unhappy porn girl than anything the industry offers. The only thing that really bugs me about people like Lubben is that they feel they can speak for everyone else. She knows the absolute truth about porn and completely dismisses any other opinion as an outright lie, even when it comes from other women who've been in the porn industry.
I don't think she is so great. I just read Jersey Jaxin's blog and she is trying to figure out how to buy a car for cash. That is sad. That girl made $$$ and even owned a house out in the desert for a while. Where did it go? Shelly doesn't tell these girls are damned thing about money, like having an exit strategy for leaving porn. She just used them for her own devices and where they fall is where they lie. Shelly is to be avoided like the plague.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 10:28AM
I know only a little about her, but she's no different than someone who's quit smoking, gone on a diet and lost a lot of weight, or kicked drugs or alcohol. In her case she's found God. Most people who go through some sort of life changing steps, and find happiness in their choice will tell everyone they see, everytime they see them, that they need to change their ways, like she did, and then, and ONLY then, will the hapless tool become a happy self-fulfilled person. That's all Shelly's doing. As far as the porn world is concerned, she's just another voice. If she's happy, let her go on her own way, and hopefully you won't run into her on the subway or in an airport and have to be talked at to death.
Most people who've kicked alcohol don't call for the return of Prohibition. When she's forming alliances with the likes of Weinstein from the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, that's when she takes it to the next, scary level. Your description is better suited for ex-porn performers like Heather Veitch, who, while she has issues with the industry, has been sharply critical of Lubben's distortions.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 5:27PM
Actually, many of them do. Some of the most virulent anti-booze & drug nazis, anti-smoking nazis, diet nazis and such are all "formers" who have seen the "inevitable" light. Your concern that by her getting involved with others who share her views, only gives her more power than she has. Those who just let her go on her way without getting into a fight with her, actually decrease her power on the issues.
Really? If so, then the mainstream media has not picked up on that. Is there any movement to pass legislation banning booze altogether in even the reddest of states? Rachel Maddow would certainly have spotlighted that on her cable program, for starters.Since when does ignoring people that YOU call 'nazis' decrease their power? Weren't the original Nazis ignored in the Weimar Republic? Yeah, that worked out real well, didn't it?
I didn't read the whole thread, so I might have missed something. I see a lot of brash and abrasive opinions. I'm curious if any of you actually watched her 'testimonial' video or read anything on her website. Why? Because almost everything she says about the porn industry is exactly the same as what current porn stars say or complain about it their interviews. It's almost point by point. I'm just saying.
I have seen Shelley's porn videos, and I can testify that she gave every indication of being a happy pw who really loved the cock. I have seen recent pix and believe that her true destiny is to come back as a MILF, take porn valley by storm and capitalize on the MILF craze.
I actually don't think she's the problem at all. The problem isn't a person. It's a mindset. What one person says or does is never the beginning or the end. They're all mere pawns in the greater overall strategy. They'll take anyone they can use. Unfortunately, a mere pawn is just as capable of inflicting damage as any other piece so they must be watched.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 5:11PM
Sheldon..you seem like an awfully angry person. Apparently you don't know a lot of people who have made huge changes in their lives. While they may not run to the statehouse with pre-written legislation to ban booze, tobacco or doughnuts, most of them will tell you that now that they have "seen the light" they know that this, that or the other should be banned for everyone's own good. I don't think I'd like to have a face to face discussion with you, you seem very angry.
There is nothing wrong with being upset with people who are supposed to know better but choose not to. Not being upset only encourages them. It's not just the statehouses that have not heard fromn recovering alcoholics calling for the return of Prohibition. Where are the op-eds blanketing the nation's newspapers from ex-boozers? Is there some kind of conspiracy to keep their "neo-Prohibitionism" on the level of whispers?
The distinction is that we tried Prohibition and it was a disaster, and revisiting that disaster is not within the mainstream of political opinion due to the sorry history of that failed policy experiment. IMO had Prohibition not been tried and failed the fundies would probably have it somewhere on their agenda.
^^America & Prohibition = tried and failed, Shelley Lubben & Porno = tried and failed. some people just need to know when to bug out and call it even. lates, Von S.
Happy birthday Shelley, and go back to porn. You are a helluva MILF. I have seen you from your Roxy days and I know that you are a cock-loving whore. Love and kisses.
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - May 18 2010 : 1:57PM
Shelley Lubben is doing a good thing. The adult industry is filled with sex addicts, drug addicts and sexual predators who just prey on young girls so they can drive a Bentley and live in a big house. Most of you people know nothing about the abuse young women take in the "shit hole" that is called the adult biz. Porn directors and companies do not care one bit about these young girls that they use and abuse everyday. Young women thrown away like yesterdays trash... The more we(my husband and I)get involved with and learn about the adult companies, the more we find what a bunch of scumbag predators they really are... There are a few stand up companies... but most gonzo companies fall into the scumbag category... The truth will set you free... remember that. These porn guys will pimp their own Mothers or Sisters... Porn people are "INFAMOUS" not famous... Do you know the differnce?
She could be doing something good. I don't know what she's doing because I don't follow her activities. If I have to guess, I would say she wastes her effort on demonizing the porn industry rather than actually doing something to help young people do something else. If she believes the porn industry is exploiting naive young girls, the best thing she could do in order to make a difference would be to do something that helps to educate young people. Not on the evils of porn but on the ways of the world. You don't need to demonize anyone to make a difference. You only need to show inexperienced people that there are people everywhere who will take advantage of their lack of life skills and then find a way to give these people life skills that they can apply to anything they wish. Then, if they still choose to do porn, they will at least be armed with the rudimentary knowledge to protect themselves from the worst parts of it. Education is always better than preaching. Edited by - randomprecision on 5/18/2010 2:43:16 PM
I just watched on Youtube "Ex Porn Star's Amazing Story" and while kind of riveting , I dont get it. I have feelings, I dont have a heart like Hitler, but every single one of those so-called ex porn stars made a personal decision to fuck in front of the camera. Nobody forced their hand to do anything. Still more stories abound on Lubben's Myspace blog. Having the freedom to choose is one of the benefits of living in the US. For example how many ADTers thought about doing porn but never followed through. What Lubben portrays is sort of like people givingconfessionals about choosing to have an abortion over childbirth at silentnomoreawareness.org a local library for some reason has put the youtube version of this site up for their homepage instead of the library's homepage. These people regretting their abortions had the choice of first not having unprotected sex and then having the baby. Not wanting to come back 10, 20, 30 years later complaining they shouldn't have had an abortion which if one gesticulated to them not to have the abortion, they would've found a way to get one. They made the choice. So does anyone who goes into porn. In both the abortion and porn cases all of the people seemed to want to blame somebody when they were free to make a conscious choice of their actions. Lubben now seems wanting to court Washington and gain political power in the issue of stopping porn.
Posted - Dec 9 2007 : 3:23PM
