I never said I had a problem with black men (or women) in other genres. I wish there were more, in fact. I just find the fact that there is a specific IR genre convenient from the standpoint of someone who gets easily frustrated when looking for something specific and having it scattered all over the place. This is nothing personal. I feel the same about other stuff. I wish porn was indexed down to the last nuance so you could find anything you wanted without so much guesswork and wandering around in the dark. I don't know why some women won't work with black guys but if it's indeed racism, I don't think it's going to change any time in the next 1,000 years. Some people are racist. I don't like it but I can't do anything about it either.Do you know how many porn movies there are even in a small porn shop? How many box covers should we have to look at before it becomes a problem to find what we're looking for?And again, how many porn flicks are there? Should we just call it all porn and not bother with categories?No. I said they TEND TO BE better performers based upon what I've seen. I don't think being black makes you a better performer. I don't know why it is. I just know black men tend to be better performers. Maybe they have more competition. I don't know. But this is a perfect example of someone making a racial thing out of something that wasn't really even intended that way.
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So why don't you just search for their names?
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I do but I enjoy most IR porn and I don't know that many names. I'd never know their names in the first place if I couldn't find IR porn when I was looking for it. When I go to a store to get a few porn flicks, I don't have a week to sort through everything. I don't know the names of half of the white men who do porn either. I'm not good with remembering names. Same reason why it's hard for me to follow a bunch of porn girls at the same time. I don't know half their names.OK. What should I search for if I want to see a black guy fuck a white chick or a black woman fuck a white guy and I'm not particular with the names? Is it racist simply to desire to see two people of different colors fucking? I've got a feeling some people might think so. Well, I don't think it is. Am I a horrible person if I only want to see women I think are attractive in porn? Exactly how far should we take this? Are porn producers bad people if they only want to cast blonds in a certain movie or kind of movie? What about if they specifically want to make a big tit flick? Is that not discrimination?It's an observation. Like I said, I don't know why. It just seems like the black male performers that I've seen are generally better at what they do than most of the white guys I've seen. How is that a stereotype? I'm basing it on my own objective observations. Not something I've heard. If you knew me at all, you'd know I don't give a flying fuck what the majority of society thinks about anything. Stereotypes don't carry a whole lot of weight with me. I try to base whatever I say on my own observations. Sometimes I'm wrong but at least I try to come up with my own opinions.Where the hell did I say that? You said that. I didn't even imply it. Anyway I was thinking that ntfighter was the same poster who'd hammered this issue into the ground for the last few years. I know there was at least one poster who just would never stop with it. I could have been mistaken. When you've been around here for long enough, you see the same stuff pop up over and over again. And this particular issue is one that has been beaten to death here. I have simply refrained from participating in the past. But I figured I'd give it a shot so that people might see that there are people out here who are not racists but have other reasons for liking the IR porn genre. And also, just to point out that those few girls who won't fuck black guys, who cares? They won't fuck black guys outside of porn either. Some girls won't fuck ugly guys either. Should we demand it? Anyway. I hope this post comes out right because I spent way too long on it and I need a break so I'm not going to proofread it. If something seems really fucked about it, it's probably just that I forgot to go back and fix something or complete a thought.
I probably worded my previous post too strongly. I was tired. I apologize. And yes. Racism is serious. But it does affect everyone. Just because someone is white doesn't mean they don't feel anything about racism. I have felt very strongly about it since I was in my mid teens and that hasn't changed. I deplore it. But at the same time, porn is a different world. I'm not sure it can conform to the rules of the real world. When you think about it, where else in this country are women expected to fuck, suck cock and swallow cum? It's just a different world. Now having said that, I don't find it pleasant to sit and watch a movie that's pointlessly laced with the N word. I agree that's just asking for trouble. At the same time, however, the words "Slut" and "Whore" and even "Pig" are used in reference to women and a lot of men (including myself) find it strangely arousing. I would never use any of those words (In anger) to refer to a woman in RL unless she earned it. That's not what I really think about women. It's just a turn on to sit down and go into a world where anything can happen. Way I see it, if we start down the path of PC porn, porn is doomed. I guess in the end, what I'm really trying to say is that I do believe racism is still a problem in this country. However, if you want to fight it, you really should choose your battles carefully. It comes down to the boy who cried wolf. While there really might be a wolf here, how important is it to deal with this particular one at the moment? Edited by - randomprecision on 9/27/2008 5:09:26 AM
I totally agree with this point. I would never buy a US IR title, it's the historical racial undertones and derogatory comments on the boxcover that's the problem. Not the fact that its Black and white having sex. I never noticed the problem when I watched UK porn, you just buy a couples or hardcore title and it would happen to have one or two Black/white scenes, without the need to point out its IR and make a deal out of it. Having a black/white fetish genre would be acceptable to me, if it didn't carry any of the derogatory BS, I myself do find B/W couples (Bm/Wf or Bf/Wm) can be very visually erotic, I think it highlights the two different genders more, the contrast between the body colours just looks good, and of course its also just a normal thing that happens in life too, so there's no reason not to represent it in porn.
^Wait a minute. Bobcat, didn't you earlier say that the US had it right when it comes to their attitude about IR porn, and not the UK? Yes, in fact I'm positive you said that, because I even questioned you about it directly and you said it was the US.
I said the US had it right with respect to asking a girl if she wanted to do IR! You said that the UK didn't give a girl the choice, I said that I thought that was Wrong!!!!!
I couldn't disagree more. If it were possible to make bets on this, I'd be willing to bet everything I have that if tomorrow the US porn industry became like all the other porn industries in the world and stopped letting girls say "no IR", of the 70% of non-black porn girls who won't go near a black guy on camera, all but a few of them would stay in the biz and start doing black guys. And the few who left would be quickly replaced by girls who would be willing to do black guys. Soon it would be like that's how it always was. You'd hardly hear a peep about it after the first year or so.Yeah, that's why I said "surely", and put a footnote. As in, that can't be the truth. It must be that they TEND TO BE. If that isn't the case, then see the footnote below. Speaking of which, see below for my comments about your comments from the footnote.The problem isn't wanting to see people of two different colours fucking. The problem isn't wanting there to be IR porn. The problem isn't even thinking black guys tend to fuck better than white guys. The problem is being ok with how things are now, where black guys are basically a disease that only the dirtiest of whores are willing to touch. Because that's pretty much how it is right now.It doesn't seem strange at all to you that the only comparisons to be made to seeing black guys are things like seeing ugly girls, or seeing small-titted girls when you were hoping for big tits, or something like that? I'm pretty sure no one's claiming that an IR flick couldn't or shouldn't be made. What we're trying to say is that in the same way that the biz doesn't consider it to be "a big deal" when a girl is in a blond flick, or a big tit flick, or a big cock flick, or a short girls flick... they shouldn't think of it as "a big deal" when a girl is in an IR flick. But they do consider it a big deal. In fact, it's considered such a hardship for a girl to do IR that they're actually paid more for it. You know, like anal. "You're not gonna like this as much as a normal scene, so we'll pay you more to make up for it." And don't even pretend it's because of the cock size; if a girl has to fuck a white guy with a huge cock, they'd never even think to offer her more money. It's not about the size. No girl has on their list "no cocks over 9 inches". But tons of girls have "no black guys".That's why I left it as a footnote, and said "unless". As in, what seemed more likely was what I said above, that you knew some black performers that you enjoyed as performers, or that you find it more common that black guys are better performers. BUT, if you did think that being black on its own makes someone a better performer, then that would certainly be a stereotype. You don't, so none of this part applies to you.Yeah, that's why this statement went along with the "unless" statement. So if the first part doesn't apply to you (which it doesn't), then neither does this part.If by "few" you mean the overwhelming majority, then I guess, um... I do? (Again, much earlier in this thread, I told everyone a very easy way to find out the numbers, and you'll see it's about 70% of non-black b/g porn girls that won't do IR). And I care, because there's no reason it has to be this way. If the porn biz in every other country can work it out so black guys aren't treated like lepers, surely the US can as well.
Yeah, I don't think you can have it both ways though. The whole reason they're given a choice in the US is because it's considered a bad thing to do, a tough thing to do, something that's "beneath" many girls - and the tone in the vids reflects it, as you've observed. In the UK it's not a big deal and that, too, is reflected in the vids. The don't say to the girls in the US "are you willing to do Latino guys", or "are you willing to do tall guys". They only say "are you willing to do black guys". If it wasn't considered such a big deal, or such a bad thing, the question would never even come up. They never say "Ok you say you're willing to do guys on camera... but are you willing to do guys with GREEN EYES?" No. And there may be girls who don't find guys with green eyes attractive. But they show up to the set, and they fuck the guy, and no one thinks anything of it. It's not really about choice, Bobcat; any talk of "choice" is just the magician's beautiful assistant, there to distract you from what's really going on: it's about marginalizing IR porn. Or, specifically, sex between black males and non-black females. And you've seen for yourself the result: the terribly discriminatory and derogatory tone that so much US IR porn ends up taking. Don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors.
Surely if you say a girl can't say no to having sex with a black guy you have to included the same for everyother race? Then you are saying that she should have no choice to whom she has sex with on camera, this is just plain wrong to me!
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CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User
225 Posts 9/08
Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 6:23AM
Is it true, Mike South, you don't shoot videos of white girls having sex with blackmen on your set? If so, why is that and is it really a white southern negative attitude towards the idea of interracial? Edited by - Chi - Bear 85 on 9/27/2008 6:24:20 AM
OK. I think it's safe to say that we've possibly misinterpreted one another a few times over the last couple of posts so I'm just gonna cut most of it out and try to get back OT. I have not read this entire thread and I probably won't. I don't know how many girls won't do black men any more than I know how many won't do anal. But again, the only solution it seems that anyone would suggest is that the industry should, somehow, make it impossible for the girl to say no to IR (and therefore, anything else, I suppose). I'm sorry but that's just insane. And anyone who's thinking rationally would see that. My earlier posts were just from my initial reaction to such. Porn is continually slammed by people who love to insinuate that the women have no choices and they're forced and coerced. That it really isn't consensual. And we have porn fans who want to make it happen! How messed up is that?
I think a lot of girls raised in the South do. They're just made to feel badly for admitting it. I honestly don't even like when girls make a distinction. "I love black cock." So? To me, that's just admitting you like dick. There's no difference between a black cock and any other except the color of the skin it's wrapped it. Does that make it any more or less worthy of being specifically singled out with statements like "I love black cock"? Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 9/27/2008 12:49:00 PM
There are various reasons why certain porn actresses wont do IR but the most important of them is the influence of their agents. Case in point: Alanah Rae and LA DIRECT. She was told by LA Direct to take IR off her card. It's common knowledge that LA Direct strongly discourages all their girls from doing IR. LA Direct rightfully deserves the title of 'Most Racist Talent Agency in Porn Valley'. http://pornvalleynews.com/home/archives/2008/09/alanah_rae_inte.html http://www.ladirectmodels.com/search.php?gender=female&letter=%25&sortby=firstName&orderby=ASC&Go=Go [Mod edit: There is nothing in the article quoted that proves that it was the agency who told her to take it down. It could have been anyone that told her to do that for all you know. Publicist, manager, boyfriend... you can't conclude it was the agent from the article alone. So your characterization is possibly unjust, and certainly unfounded.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/28/2008 12:10:31 AM
WoW, Mike South posting to defend the discriminatory status quo in the porn industry. I appreciate your participation. You especially should be here. I am still stinging from one of your previous post. Where you compared refusing to work with an African American as being no different than refusing to engage in homosexuality or bestiality. Mike the people on this board, and the public in general are not as stupid as you seem to think. Your misplaced arrogance is annoying. Words change over time. I think its obvious that the subject is racial discrimination. Nothing is obscured or lost when the less precise, but inclusive term "Racism" is substituted. I choose to use the word for its historical connotation and to point up the seriousness of the issues.
I got Jesse. Al is still isn't interested, white girls keeping him busy. I have to get back to you with the details. You promise to be there right, you're not going yo blow us off. We got fried chicken after MMMmmm. Edited by - ntfighter on 9/27/2008 4:19:28 PM
Bobcat, please see my last post that was addressed to you. The girls already have no choice about who they fuck, with the only exception being black dudes. So really, how much choice do they have? (Remember that the "no lists" are only for specific performers that have caused the girls problems in the past - they have nothing to do with who the girls are or aren't attracted to.) Again, if you go back and see the last post that I addressed to you, you'll see that none of this has anything to do with choice. The "choice" argument is just to distract you from what's really going on. In fact, if you read the post from Thunderbird about four or five posts ago (Sep 27 2008 : 12:28:36 PM), you'll see that often the girls aren't even given the choice about having sex with black guys. They're told not to do it. No choice there.
If it's really so insane, then why does it work without any problems in every other country? As I've said in my last two posts addressed to Bobcat (one should be right above this post, the other is right below my last post addressed to you), choice really isn't the issue. Please read both of those posts, as I think they include some points that directly respond to what you're saying here, and I think I phrased them about as well as I can already. Once you have read them, I'd like to hear your response. I thank you RP for continuing to be involved in this discussion even though it has risked getting too emotional (by me, as well as others) at times. In general I find this thread so far to have included some more interesting points and more varied perspectives than most of the IR threads here at ADT. For that reason I hope the discussion can continue a little bit longer. [edit: cropped quote] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/27/2008 5:00:47 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 5:34PM
I agree that there are more important issues than whether or not white performers fuck black men in porn, but since we're here discussing porn it might as well be addressed. The majority of those in control of the modern porn industry seem really reactionary and despite all the surface extremism essentially conformist and reflective of the worst aspects of society: misogynistic, mechanical, materialistic, fag-hating, racist. Porn grew out of the counterculture of the 60s and 70s but today seems to be dominated by 'libertarian' republicans, or they are at least the loudest voice on the net. I think the move of the industry to L.A. in the 80s and the collapse of features was the kiss of death to porn as a possibly positive cultural force (which was probably always just a pipe dream, like most of the counterculture). Edited by - BlackSix on 9/27/2008 5:35:07 PM
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
For some reason, I feel like this was directed at me... Clam Digger, please see my response to your post in the other thread. And no, you didn't make me nervous. (Why would I be nervous?) You pointed out a legitimate error. I thanked you for doing so, and took what I felt to be the appropriate action. See Thunderbird's post above. As I have said a few times since becoming moderator, if anyone thinks I've done something incorrectly, or that I should have done something where nothing was done, please point it out to me by using the "email mods" command, emailing me directly via the email link above any of my posts, or even posting something in the thread itself. (The first two methods are more effective than the third.) I won't be offended or insulted. It's likely that I did make a mistake, and I'll correct it. And if I haven't made a mistake, then I'll explain that as well.
Like Killbillvol69 said, I don't know if that is true or can be proven. I will say that that is the exact kind of outright discrimination I am steadfast against if done by any agency, company, director, or producer. My main thing here is discrimination, and not necessarily racism. You can't change racism in a person's heart if they don't want it changed, but you can effect their ability to discriminate against someone because of it. I know it can be a fine line given the female's choice to chose, but I also believe a whole lot more black male performers might work more often in different genres if said undue influence wasn't involved.
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CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User
225 Posts 9/08
Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 3:51AM
I read that link to Alanah Rae's interview and she stated that LA Direct told her to pace herself on the interracial, just as the anal.That is one of the reason, they told her to take it off her profile, and save it later, to stretch her career, if that makes any sense. I've look at LA Direct models, there is decent number of white females that listed, that do interracial. The ones that isn't listed, that don't do interracial, actually did in the past, in their early career. Oh, forgot to put this in, Alanah Rae she also, stated, that her mother is married to a black man.
^Read the interview again carefully. RAY: Do you do interracial? ALANAH: I had it up on my agency profile for a while, but I took it off. I don’t have a problem doing it, but I was told not to. RAY: By the Klan? ALANAH: No! Nothing like that. My mom is married to a black man. I was just advised to pace myself — As with anal. Notice that she does NOT say who told her to take it down. She does NOT say who advised her to pace herself. Maybe it was LA Direct. Maybe not. From this interview, it's not possible to say.
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CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User
225 Posts 9/08
Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:08AM
I'm guessing, LA Direct, but then, how can you explain the ones who didn't take it down on their profile on that website. I would, think they would've told them too or is there someone there we don't know.
Ultimately it comes down to a physical preference. Interracial porn has so many racial, social, political and cultural connotations you could write a book on it. To suggest that an actress should not be able to decide whether or not to do IR because that is discrimination that is not permitted in other jobs is ridiculous. You don't get fucked in the ass in most jobs not literally anyway.
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The Prophet Deactivated User
12 Posts 9/08
Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 8:32AM
The Prophet says: The Lord created all men equal Then where does men get the right to discriminate, when God did not divide When all are struck with blindness all colors will be treated with kindness
I want to take a moment to express my appreciation for KillBill69. It only due to his cool and intelligent moderation. His fearlessness in participating in this prickly subject that has kept it from degenerating to a level of snide insinuation and personal attacks that is the usual fate of similar discussion. Thanks KB
Exactly. No conclusions about LA Direct specifically can be made from the information in the interview. [edit: I changed "by" to "from". "From" seems to be the more appropriate word choice here.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/28/2008 12:50:43 PM
KB, regarding your points about choice. I've seen it posted on this forum, by girl performers, where they say that next week they are working for studio "x" with director "y" and performer "z", is this not typical then? Part of my reasoning in this thread has been based on a performers prior knowledge and therefore choice to work with who they choose!
^Yes, sometimes they know exactly who they'll be working for, and with whom. But often they don't. Notice that they don't say "tomorrow I'm working with X, Tuesday with Y, Wednesday with Z..." Remember that many of these girls are shooting 4 to 5 times a week (sometimes more), but only once every few weeks will you see a message from a particular girl like "tomorrow I'm working with X for director Y". It's because most of the other times they don't know. Much of porn pairing happens pretty last-minute in fact, due to flakes, changes of location and schedule, etc. Reading Christian's blog will give you a bit of insight into how soon before a shoot a pairing is thought up at times. And it's not just because Christian gets blacklisted. Often times in his stories, you'll read about how the studio booked a particular girl, but then the agent only finds out a day or two before that the girl is still out of town, so now they're scrambling to find a new girl. And then there's the flakes. Oh, the flakes. Happens all the time, and then a new girl or guy has to be found within an hour or two. So yes, sometimes they do know well in advance who they'll be working with. Usually this is for the bigger productions. But most scenes that the girls do aren't for the bigger productions. So most of the time, it's show up, find out who you're fucking, do the scene, go home. It's not about choice.
"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe. "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm." - Goethe.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:42AM
Thats not what I said I said I DONT FUCK BLACK MEN read it again and maybe you will get it
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:48AM
Apparently at least some of you are as stupid as i seem to think. you insist on making the word racism mean something it doesn't while you have no replacement for the word with the same meaning. If you were truly using the historical connotation instead of the incorrect bastardized meaning you would use it in it's proper context. Im arrogant...so sue me....not like I care what your opinion of me is, hell I don't even know you, only that you continue to argue from a position of, well....stupidity. but hey this is America you have the right to sound like a moron. Proceed.
Mike, you have shown an interest in this topic, and you definitely not afraid say what you think, points for that. I am sincerely interested in hearing your views. Proceed.
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cvarmecky Deactivated User
46 Posts 7/07
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 8:21PM
I love big black cock in my ass :-) and don't you forget it!
Wow, out of the thousands upon thousands of women in the biz, you came up with a list of 40. Most of which I have never heard o, or who are down right unattractive. Way to prove the point champ
How do you figure? Jenna Jameson is the most well know porn star in history, and is the only one to have any mainstream success, and she never went anywhere near a black guy. Tera Patrick is the same. Ashlynn Brooke is a Goddess who is rocketing to the top of the industry, and she has said she won't go anywhere near a black guy.
Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 9/27/2008 12:49:00 PM
