This is irrelevant as it's the very fact it is occuring in porn films that's the whole point of this thread but M vanHouten states that Alex didn't expect the treatment she gets which is correct. They had already verbally agreed not to hit her where the danger area of her head was and that is precisely where he did hit her. That in itself is enough. Enough is enough
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 7:31AM
First off, what I though was a "snuff film", is right... According to wikipedia - A snuff film is a film that depicts an actual murder, produced explicitly for commercial entertainment purposes (and not as an incidental record of a murder committed for other purposes).
Alex wasn't murdered. Hell even if she was MAIMED it wouldn't be a snuff film!
Seems like you are the one clueless.
Secondly, I resent you implying I like women beating. I'll state it again. I don't like this. I haven't watched this and I don't plan to. Why not point your words at someone who's actually see the movie.
"What? The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy" - RATM
you are all talking about a movie who is actually a fetish movie, very special movie for very special people. for myself i must confess that i hate it, and i don't understand why some girls accept to be in that kind of movie, it's the same kind of movie than pissing movie, s... on belly movie and other digsuting movie. we are living in strange world where rough movie are especially 'tendance ' in the gonzo area, no one can be mario salieri.
in fact, steven french is a very horrible actor, in france, we call him 'laide bite !'
umm just a thought, for whatever reasons the female performer does scenes like these, either her free will, for money, coercion,does that mean society as a whole should watch them?
There are people willing to take blows to the head during boxing matches, but we as a society say, no, there's too much risk of permenant injury so we don't want that to be legal.
Okay, so according to you, you don't approve of &/or enjoy this kind of stuff. In other words, you're just on this thread to be a contrarian, then? & a nonsensical one incapable of understanding & debating the opposing point of view, @ at that? & that your "Alex shouldn't whine because she was paid & it was her fault for not running away?" defense is right out of the bitter mysognynist handbook of retorts is merely coincidence, correct?
Seriously, you're really sinking into the quicksand, now. If she was his wife it would be terrible, but since she's a hooker it's okay? & Steven French was "just trying to pay his bills, too" by repeatedly slamming her in the soft spot & spinal cord with a closed fist armored with a metal ring? I'll have to remember that logic next time I read of a mugger beating a crackwhore on the corner for her night's earnings.
Just so you're aware, "beating whores with closed fists in vulnerable areas of their body while they're begging you to stop" is not listed under "job requirements" in the official edition of the Porn Stud's Handbook -- despite what some fly-by-night "directors" might claim.
Off to day two of my shoot. Thanks for the smiles to send me on my way!
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jamesnadt Deactivated User
cambridge, ma 152 Posts 2/06
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 11:06AM
PL-let me know when defending the indefensible gets old. anyone who's ever had a chick they've cared about in their lives tends to side towards dac. i disagree with the guy often, get past the fact he may be speaking down to you and he's alright.
if it's a pr-coup, which it seems to be, kudos to them.
I'm sorry but this takes it to far a smack or some hair pulling is cool but a closed fist is out of the question that's just careless and stupid. I don't condone this type of brutality it's not sexy or hot it's ghetto.
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jamesnadt Deactivated User
cambridge, ma 152 Posts 2/06
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 12:00PM
here's a fun game. go to the bathroom, look in the mirror and say to yourself "i derive PLEASURE from watching a 20-year old girl being punched in the small of her neck where she specifically lacks osteopathic development. it makes my penis hard"
this scene is definitely an example of why girls need agents. LA Direct calls me all the time asking me about certain scenes which have different requirements. i either turn them down or not. if she needed the money for the scene that badly, then she would have agreed to anything. how can you blame the company when she agreed to do the scene? she is an adult. she makes her own choices.
however, i dont know how steven french did that scene. i am in this business because i love women. obviously, there are guys who are in this business because the opposite is true. who would wear a fucking ring in addition to being asked to hit a girl in the head? if i were asked to do donkey punch, obviously i would have said no. i like jeff s, i like a lot of his stuff, but not this movie. but he still has a right to put it out.
DAC, i love your posts, you are obviously intelligent and thoughtful, but how can you defend a girl who, is an adult, isnt new to the business, agreed to do the scene, didn't stop it when she was hurting, agreed to do a scene with her head problems. It doesn't make any sense. I have seen the scars on her head, they are huge, she is telling the truth about her previous injuries.
Good post, Christian, & to clarify/answer your question:
It's not that I'm "defending" Alex Devine. I'm not saying that I find her life decisions very inspiring or worthy of elevating her to Rosa Parks status. But even if, for the sake of argument, she happens to be weak-willed & have gotten herself into the place in life where she's at of her own accord, as you rightly point out, that doesn't justify the actions of the male performer.
It also doesn't absolve the producer/directors, or the distributor. "She was asking for it" is neither a legal or moral grounds for defense, even if on some level it could be argued to be true.
I think you know as well as I do -- & perhaps even better -- that for every Alex Devine whom for whatever reason actually speaks up, there are a dozen other girls being put through the same violent frat-boy antics who don't say anything because either they fear losing work from other producers once branded as "difficult," or feel it won't make any difference, or just get out of the business. In fact, Self-centered, ethics-free producers count on that population to keep titles like this going.
To me, French is merely a tool -- all puns intended. The primary perpetrators, the ones who bludgeoned her with that tool are "Grip" & "Cram," who are obviously attempting to commercialize whatever hobbies they had as kids sticking firecrackers up the asses of stray cats they lured to their backyard with a dish of cream.
Also directly complicit is Steward, for merrily distributing this product & thinking the controversy was just hilarious -- until the shit started hitting his own fan. His latest, lame attempt at self-defense by going on the offense seems to be accusing Mike South of being "a double agent" out to bring the porn industry down, & attempting to marginalize the tide of opposition to material like this that goes way farther than rough sex or consensual S/M by blaming it on the skewed starlet-worship of "350 pound fanboys" (an AC Cream reference, when that notorious bleeding heart hasn't even been a part of this debate).
However, I must admit, it's fun to watch bullies get all flustered & defensive when they suddenly find themselves on even ground with the opposition, as opposed to imagining that making a career of exploiting the weaknesses of those around them & then bragging about it on the internet somehow makes them king of the anthill.
Best to you, Christian, & all of the other talent in this industry who are basically decent people who'd like to make a buck having some nasty fun -- but not at the expense of others' hearts, minds & spinal cords.
dac i think that last post was the best, most clear, least defensive post you made and didn't sound like you were talking down to anyone...If only you had posted that first i don't think anyone could have really disagreed so much with you! I totally see where you stand now, and i think it is the only ethical place to stand..
I don't think the main issue is whether Alex Devine should accept responsibility for making the decision to go along with it. It happened and it'll probably go on happening. What seems more important to me is that these idiots are committing a potential felony assault over and over again on video and mass distributing it, and that girls are being victimized by them regardless of how stupid they are for agreeing to it.
i dunno what i find more amazing: that chicks will agree to do this kind of content or that a forum spends 8 pages of posts discussing its merits or lack thereof.
plain and simple, this is fucked up shit. this is the kind of shit that people produce who don't have the ability or know-how to come up with anything else that might compete in a crowded marketplace. this is porn for losers and there's no shortage of losers in porn or amongst it's consumers. if i had to make this kind of crap to make a buck in this business i would have gotten out of it years ago. the producers of this series are bottom-feeders, that's it in a nutshell.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 2:46PM
is anyone discussing its merits? i think most people are just trying to deal with the fact that they have any connection to an industry where some idiots think it's funny to punch girls in the head while fucking them.
now who wants to buy adt so i don't have any connection to this crap?
I remember Stephen Hunter, a very well known writer for the Washington Post, said in about 1998 on a Baltimore t.v. show that porn was starting to get a lot meaner. I guess this is what he meant.
you're right. no one here is extolling the virtues of this content. there are a few, however, who seem to be placing some blame on the performer for allowing herself to participate and continue to participate. but that's not the issue here. the issue is the content itself.
placing the blame on the peformer for participating is like a "she was asking for it," rape defense.
there's no such thing as justifiable rape and there is no justifying this content.
First I have to acknowledge that I've read the initial post, and then I've skimmed most of the responses. I haven't read every post.
I think that Alex Devine's complaint is valid, only it was issued in the wrong venue. To cement her claims of wrong-doing, she should swear out a complaint to local law enforcement, or bring suit in civil court. Based strictly on her account, I think that she was exploited and wronged to some extent, and may possibly have been assaulted from a legal standpoint. The evidence is readily available on DVD. A subpoena could be issued for the cut footage. She might have a genuine case.
I think that if this is troubling her, and especially if she's had some lasting medical problem as a result of her wishes being ignored, she should seek a judicial decision about it either in civil or criminal court. I think that airing her complaint on an online forum is insufficient for these circumstances.
Other than "dealing with this", is anyone going to do anything beyond verbally expressing their outrage and disapproval? I show my disapproval by choosing not to buy, rent, or promote this title, but that's the extent of my action.
But I ask everyone, has this thread accomplished anything beyond free promotion? Are you going to do anything differently now, or is this thread ultimately hot air?
PS: I'm not really addressing this specifically to Steph, even though I quoted her in my reply.
PPS: You're not really going to sell ADT, are you? I doubt this is the first time this sort of crap has happened, it just surfaces more easily because we are in the internet age.
Well it's not the biggest threat in the world, since to my knowledge I haven't seen this guy before, but all I can do about it is never buy or rent a disc that features French.
As to the "She knew what she was getting into" argument -- she's not complaining about the type of scene it was. She did know that. But she thought that if she asked the guy not to hit her in one specific spot, that he wouldn't decide to hit her in that very spot. That's the only thing she's upset about, and I can't see why that's not legit. It's not quite like a girl going to Meatholes and then being upset that they were mean to her.
Even if you want to take the very unforgiving position of "She was stupid and got what she deserved for being in that situation", that doesn't make French any less of a thug asshole piece of shit for doing it. Especially if, as Christian indicates, her injuries are obvious enough to make it clear that there was a pretty good reason for her small request.
As Devine points out, the trailer makes it clear ("Wrong side!") that the issue had been explained. You can blame her for being naive if you want, and you might not be wrong, but that doesn't excuse the perp one iota.
Just to make it clear, I'm trying to divorce the issue from the kind of movie it was, which is clouding a lot of the argument here. Putting aside the issue of donkey-punching in the first place (and most of you can guess where I'd be on that), I'm saying that if he had just been decent enough to punch her in the right spot, none of this hoo-ha would have been raised. As sarcastic as that sounds and is, it's true.
I for one wont buy any product connected with this star or director or any porn film that contains this type of scene no matter who is in it. Other than that it does serve a purpose as many who have posted here, myself included, were not aware of just how far porn had gone away from pure sex and into the realms of thuggery.
alex is not the issue of my original post , even nor the directors/producers. steven french is the issue here and the content of the movie is irrelevent . he was asked not to do something and he did it anyway. he should've respect what she asked him - that's the whole thing. it's so simple , and most of you took it to another level. if u want to discuss about the "donkey punch" movie - this isn't the place , if u want to discuss alex's desicions - this isn't the place either.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 4:38PM
the content of the movie is not irrelevant. steven french was hired to fuck a girl and hit her in the back of the head. blame the people with the stupid idea in the first place. blame the people selling it. blame the people buying it. blame every one of us involved in this industry for continually looking the other way as the abuse goes on.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 4:55PM
I hope it makes retailers think twice before stocking this crap. I hope it makes consumers think twice before jacking off to it. There's a point where you have to ask what's wrong with me that watching a girl get punched in the head makes my dick hard. There's a point where you have to ask am I contributing to assault just to make a few bucks.
Now the retailers would be a very hard hit to the people behind such non-porn dross. We can but hope this does occur.
Be interesting for the producers of this kind of material to actually poll their paying public and ask what they do NOT want to see in their movies that they already shoot. I'd like to think chances are even people who do buy their product would say an overwhelming 'i don't like the babes being hit' and that they actually buy the film for a particular girl or scene. I'd like to think that is the case as, while i realise any buyers of such movies here are not well represented within this thread, the ones who have posted seem in the main to not like what goes on either.
Saw it on lukeisback:Maybe, just once, someone actually could go broke underestimating the taste of the American public. Yeah, I know, not gonna happen.
I don't think this is one is his. JM is the distributor.This is even more baffling. If she's got a hole in her head or whatever, why do a shoot themed Donkey Punch even if the current brouhaha is a PR stunt? And if the scars are that visible why does the director agree to use her?
And, if the action does get dangerous why not call a stop and tell him to stop it or get a different guy? I'm strongly in the camp that if you agree to do a physically demanding scene then do it - there are a lot of jobs people do that leave them with bumps and bruises at the end of the day - but safety is something else entirely.
She goes by "Extreme Alex". I've never looked at her web site to see just how "extreme" she is.
Exactly. I'm not sure everyone gets it yet. A closed fist in the back of the head can fuck up a person's brain for life, or even be fatal. It's closer to a crowbar in the kneecap than a punch in the stomache or the face, which would still be worth talking about on a porn forum if it was going on in porn, just to make people conscious of it. And it looks like talking about it might have had an effect too.
Alex couldn't walk away. I've been reading her blog on MySpace.com and she has roommate problems and legal problems (no driver's license, so she has transportation problems). She needed the money.
They don't really have to punch the girls in the head. There's a stunt way to do it without causing injury. They do it in Hollywood all the time.
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 7:02PM
Going back and actually reading the forum and thread the initial post was taken from, I took the post here out of context. She didn't start the thread in a complaining manner, but rather explained what trauma happened to her on a set.
I apologize for borderline derailment, but I still believe what I have said all along. She's an adult and she should be held accountable as one in tough situations she may run into in the porn world such as this.
Since the content IS what this thread is about really, I'll say this. Steve French is an asshole for hitting her and I also think Chris Mountain is an asshole too for being the other guy doing it. However I don't think either one should be in jail for hitting her in the "wrong spot". If jail is the question, BOTH should be there, not just Steve for using his "brass knuckle".
Just ask yourself this, if he hit her in the "right spot(s)", would it still be OK? No.
I just think it's a shame girls will go to this extent to make a buck. I mean leave the producer(s) and director(s) aside for a second. If not one girl would do the flick they wanted, it would have never been made.
Sigh ... DAC, I'm going off to beat my wife and kid some more
P.S. That was damn funny man, and I'm serious, I had a good belly laugh out of that comment. LOL!
"What? The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy" - RATM
The persistent focus in this thread on Alex Devine's "responsibility" for what happened during the filming of DONKEY PUNCH is weirdly beside the point -- and just plain weird.
The point that picman made at the beginning of this thread remains the most salient one for me: Whether "real" or "merely depicted", calculated violence is a world away from passionate roughness.
Who here would like to defend the moral value of calculated violence?
I liked him better in his WHORES FOR GLORIA days. Also, I alluded to this because I thought people knew, but Paul Fishbein has said on Mike South AVN will NOT give coverage to any future volumes of this title.
PL, I tend to be an attack dog on certain issues that disturb me, & often enter the fray on eleven. Sorry for running out of patience rather quickly in discussing this issue.
and many others everyone dismissed me well we now see who was Wright i saw this shit coming from a mile away and i am sad to say this will only get worst before it gets better there is no excuse for a dude to ever hit a girl EVER!!!!!!!
Lets Clean up this Biz befor the Gov. Duz it for us !
1> Had JM remove me from their screeners list. 2> Phone call to a major distributor and they pulled it immediately.
It is going to take some drastic action like a Porn Star getting hurt on a set and/or one of the idiot guys being arrested and spending time in jail before the industry wakes up!
Good news from AVN. It is about time they take a stand on this insanity!
It's always good to take action before something occurs which could have been avoided. So you are Den of the million and 3 (and counting) reviews. Bet you have watched more porn than anyone in history.
Good to hear, Den. Hopefully more will follow suit.
Speaking of suit, while I sit here reading this and watching everybody argue about who to blame, I wonder whether there are any ambulance chasing lawyers following this thread. Regardless of how stupid or immoral the actors were in this and so many other films like it, the people making this stuff could easily be held civilly or criminally liable. Just what the industry needs--a high profile case on FOX News every night for 6 months.
Go ahead, Grip & Cram, talk out of your ass some more. Maybe the entire thread will be entered in as evidence some day.
Your subjective outrage surprises me since you had no problem reviewing Slap Happy where girls were being slapped around like crazy. Or how about Rough Sex? Why didn't you call Anabolic to take you from their screeners list? I mean if you're gonna take a stand at least be consistant.
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 5:49AM
Here's hoping 
