If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 8:43AM
I am so happy that your "cunt jungle" is universally enjoyed. Universally? Really? WOW! As to just where did I get this idea? I believe I said right out it was from my personal experiences. Your expereinces are obviously different than mine. Edited by - mindee on 7/5/2009 10:17:23 AM
I’m relatively new to this but I’m fast getting tired of the same old thing. I bought a membership in a site and most of what I’ve downloaded has this format: Girl (or girls) is dressed like a hooker, Thirty seconds or less into the vid she has her ass bare, I’m trying to enjoy her nice ass but as soon as it’s bare she has grabbed a cheek in each hand and spread them so I can see up her butt, which does not look like a butt hole should do to all the huge things she has been shoving up it. The same goes for pussies, why do they always have to be spread wide open. I mean once in a while is fine but that’s all there seems to be. One of my favorite scenes from Milk Nymphos is the interview with Chelsie Rea, where she is just standing there naked, god she’s gorgeous.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 10:14AM
Clam Digger, I would disagree that if a guy likes to watch multiple guys doing a woman, that they are automatically gay or bisexual. I think there can be a lot of reasons why straight men would be interested. One example..seeing a woman dominated by men. I don't think that's a "gay" thing. And as far as my tastes are concerned..you are correct. I most certainly do not mind a penis or 3 or 4 or 5 in a video scene or on a Friday night at home.
However if you are a guy and like to watch multiple guys savaging a single girl, you are gay and or bisexual. [/quote]If this were the case, then why is the sex always straight sex? I would say more men rent or buy gangbang movies than women. If the director felt the scenes were being watched by gay and bisexual men, he would have the guys suck each others cock occasionally. It's always about the guys pleasing the girl, and the girl pleasing the guys, just as it should be.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 11:40AM
If this were the case, then why is the sex always straight sex? I would say more men rent or buy gangbang movies than women. If the director felt the scenes were being watched by gay and bisexual men, he would have the guys suck each others cock occasionally. It's always about the guys pleasing the girl, and the girl pleasing the guys, just as it should be.
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Jim.. Thanks for your example. I should have said that!!
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 12:16PM
This thread is continuing an earlier one, "Porn is a dying industry," repeating much of what was said there, and, as I said there, I don't think it is. I know I have no wish to stop looking at it, nor have I ever stopped looking at what's new on the market, hoping to find something exciting. I have to think that many porn customers are as hooked as I am. Still, I share the sentiments here that most of what is produced is disappointing at best and mostly plain awful. Sex is a very limited activity to watch. Once you've seen a few couples fucking or blowjobs or anal etc. you've pretty much seen it all. Keeping it new and exciting depends on qualities beyond the portrayal of sex. To my mind, what makes it new and therefore exciting is to convey the fantasy that leads to the sex: to be able to imagine oneself in the situation portrayed onscreen, to imaginatively join the actors in their realistic arousal and enjoyment of the sex. Without the fantasy and the realistic portrayal of sexual excitement, porn is clinically dull. To make good porn, as to make good anything, requires skill, understanding of what is good and the willingness to make the extra effort that quality always requires. It does seem that there are fewer and fewer porn makers who like porn themselves and therefore have the first notion what good porn is. More and more, they seem content with putting something -- anything -- on the market and presuming that we pervs will buy it no matter if it's any good or not. I hope that producers stop blaming the economy, piracy, and the availability of free porn on the ‘net for a declining market and wake up to their own responsibility for declining sales: the laziness, complacency, and ineptitude that makes so much of what they do not worth watching, let alone buying.
"To my mind, what makes it new and therefore exciting is to convey the fantasy that leads to the sex: to be able to imagine oneself in the situation portrayed onscreen, to imaginatively join the actors in their realistic arousal and enjoyment of the sex." This. You hit it right on the head, sir.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 4:20PM
If this were the case, then why is the sex always straight sex? I would say more men rent or buy gangbang movies than women. If the director felt the scenes were being watched by gay and bisexual men, he would have the guys suck each others cock occasionally. It's always about the guys pleasing the girl, and the girl pleasing the guys, just as it should be.
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I think that mostly it is latent or unresolved. I also think that we all have bisexual proclivities, that are largely socialized out of us guys, at least over time, and to different degrees. I am not saying that any of this is "bad" or anything like that, but I do think that human sexuality is a very complex thing.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 4:26PM
*I think you meant to say "do not" - which I think makes more sense - I guilty of typos like this all the time.
If this were the case, then why is the sex always straight sex? I would say more men rent or buy gangbang movies than women. If the director felt the scenes were being watched by gay and bisexual men, he would have the guys suck each others cock occasionally. It's always about the guys pleasing the girl, and the girl pleasing the guys, just as it should be.
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Without the 'just as it should be' this is the meat and potatoes. If I just wanted to see girls being pleased, I'd exclusively buy solo and girl/girl scenes. I suspect Clamdigger likes to picture he's the guy banging the girl, and probably watches a lot of POV vids. I like watching a girl (especially mine) be cock craving slut, so watching her with two or three other men (either on camera or in person) has always been hot for me. I have zero fears of being labeled gay, because I'm not. People who obsessively worry about other people being gay strike me as insecure in their sexuality in the first place, which is also perfectly fine. Not everyone has the time or inclination to ask themselves why they like what they like. John
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 9:41PM
I'm in my early 30s. I have never been with a shaved woman. I don't know where you live but I'm glad I don't live there.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 5 2009 : 9:57PM
We've heard that excuse before, and it's weak. If pornographers were really that easily intimidated, then they wouldn't be making any porn. As I said before, one main reason that porn isn't as good as it used to be is because fewer people making it are afraid to take risks, and are just content to jump on the cookie-cutter bandwagon. Porn isn't the industry for people who are afraid to be risk-takers. And No, I wouldn't feel any differently if I were making it. Besides, there's nothing to be afraid of if you're not doing anything wrong.
, this is great and I can understand some of your comments. I think Brandon pays himself and some other people's salaries at least he did a few years ago. The point being, he makes his own porn and/or what he enjoys watching. Some people's garbage is other people's gold. I like a little attitude from Tory Lane. I'd bust a heavy nut iside of her. I remember John Leslie, back when he was an actor, used to have a sneer and tease the females. Turns out people loved this come on of Leslie's. There's so much stuff out there that everybody's tastes can be appeaseed or repulsed. A lot of what you want in porn ended in the 1980s when much porn stopped being shot on film. In porn films you saw the fucking and cum. I agree, too many "auteurs" today. Too much moving of the camera during sex scenes, this is especially annoying when the girl is pretty and you want extended looks at her or her body parts. This moving camera shit has permeated porn for so long that I've gotten used to it now. But in closing, all I could really do(and this is what I've always done), go back to some of the old stuff, from the 80s or even the 70s, 60s(loops & shorts), 50s(stags) and you'll find erotic stuff that don't have the complications of today's porn.
I think what happens is that they all know (Perhaps instinctively) that they're pretty safe as long as they don't do anything nobody else is doing. They probably figure (and it isn't too hard to see why) that if everyone else has been doing this or that for years unimpeded and without any prosecutions, it must be fairly OK to do it.
That's what Max thought. I'm pretty sure he even said so in an AVN article I read. I may be mistaken but I'm sure he believed he could beat anything they could throw at him because he felt he wasn't doing anything wrong. And he wasn't. But as we've seen, it doesn't matter. All that matters is what people think.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 6 2009 : 12:17PM
Therein lies the problem. As so many here have already pointed out, the whole attitude that "I'll just do what everybody else is doing" is not always a good thing. It's bad enough that the same attitude is so prevalent in popular music and movies. But in porn too?
Since nobody else was really doing this before Max started facing problems, I don't think that really has much to do with it. And even if that were the reason, one guy being taken down shouldn't be allowed to work as a successful scare tactic against everybody else. Since everything is on-line now, how about keeping certain types of content as Web-based material only, and not shipping it to places where it will cause trouble? That's something Max didn't do. Had he done that, that would have been a much better decision. If I'm not mistaken, Max wasn't prosecuted because he was making dirty movies. He was prosecuted because he violated the standards of a community by shipping those movies there (after being entrapped by the Feds to do so). There's a difference. All pornographers have to do is avoid these types of clever prosecutorial loopholes, and they'll be OK. Do these ideas never occur to anyone inside the industry?
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 6 2009 : 1:32PM
JohnHenry, I don't think anyone should, as you put it, fear being labled gay. Hey, its just sex. I think that at our core humans, as I said earlier, have competing sides to our sexuality, gay and heterosexual or whatever. For whatever reason one side grows to be more dominate then the other. I think that I did a poor job explaining myself in my post. I should have really talked about the "focus" of the pron scene itself. If the focus is on swinging dicks instead of the female(s), well I think that that speaks for itself. I think that DP's can be hot when the focus is on the woman. But that is very often hard to do with 2 guys blocking a clear view of the girl. I don't care for a circle of guys standing a round whacking off to a single female. The kind of gang-bangs I enjoy are thos when the guys take turns fucking the girl, one at a time. I don't, as a personal choice, care to see threesomes, whether its bbg or ggb. I don't think directors care if scenes are being watched by bisexual or gay men, I'm more in duefuss's camp when he posts, It does seem that there are fewer and fewer porn makers who like porn themselves, and therefore do not have the first notion what good porn is. In fact his post did a far better job then mine describing what is really destroying porn. Believe me my post was not about you. I am not obsessively worried about anyone's sexuality. My post was intended to be about cold lifeless porn without any hint of passion or in fact sexiness. I will concede that I could have done a better job explaining myself.
Directors are killing porn. They attempt to improve on nature by making sex on screen better. They only succeed in making an artificial product that is known as porn. It is produced with real penetration, but read the list of ingredients, you'll find that it only contains ten percent sex. Porn is Tofu chicken. To someone who've never been offered actual chicken tofu is great. Otherwise it's a poor substitute. Web sites featuring amateur SEX are a fast rising market. The big guys never gave us the realism we asked for, next stop androids on film.
A small sample of the women I have watched Brandon Iron like a champ: Elle DeVyne Tanner Mayes Faye Reagan Michelle Peters The fact that Brandon Iron can stick his penis inside of any of the aforementioned women and not cum in less than a minute makes him a hundred times the man I will ever be. Brandon Iron and the other guys who work in the biz are the reason I watch porn. Because they fuck the hottest women in the world and they do it well and let me fantasize about what it would look and sound like to do so. Thanks for all the good times, Brandon.
^ I mean to say "fuck like a champ." p.s. - any guy who gets to cum in Lindsay Kay's mouth and then have her give him a thumbs up after she swallows is fucking rad in my book.
Hiya ClamDigger, I appreciate your clarifying. I responded as I did, in part because of other less clearly stated comments you've made, so I really am glad to see where you're coming from. I can say I agree with much of you said, especially:
I was on set watching a prominent director about nine months ago watching this very thing unfold. His formula is incredibly successful, but the content (in my opinion) is completely without either artistic or sexual value. Beautiful girls are shot with bland outfits, interesting concepts are executed with flat demeanors, and passion is replaced with repetition in his work. He even mentioned in passing how after shooting for over five years of the same stuff, it was mostly a blur to him. His audience is, as discussed earlier, a manufactured one. Had you shown this porn to a 30 year old man who'd never watched porn, he'd probably be disgusted by it. Because the audience is already conditioned to desire this particular type of porn, he's simply cashing in on an artificial demand. John
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TomDaniels Deactivated User
4 Posts 7/09
Posted - Jul 6 2009 : 7:46PM
nice try pal. Edited by - killbillvol69 on 7/6/2009 8:12:23 PM
I think that there's a difference between what's ruining the porn industry, and what consumers dislike about the majority of available porn out there. I watch porn regularly. I love it. I too have my gripes AS A CONSUMER, which are opinions, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me: One thing that bugs me is that it's okay for me to fantasize that I'm fucking a girl, or even better, that I'm the girl getting fucked (reverse POV, anyone?); it's okay for me to fantasize that this girl is totally into whatever she's doing/having done to her...but I can't fantasize about her age? Look; my first scene was a MILF scene, and I'm fine with that. Again, it's a fantasy. But why on earth is it okay for an 18 year old to play someone mature, but someone "mature" can't play an 18 year old? I'm certainly not the only girl out there who looks far younger than I really am. So why can't I see my favorite 25 year old porn starlet in a particular compilation simply because the majority of girls shot for said compilation happen to be 18-20 years old? Another thing that bothers me is the multitudes of run-of-the-mill ACTUAL young first-timers who can't fuck for beans, or who disappear as quickly and namelessly as they appeared. Please don't waste my time and money as a consumer with some girl who decided to fly to the big city and make a couple bucks. If she can't fuck like a champ, don't want to waste my time, and if she can, shoot her again! Keep her busy! I see countless threads here about "Whatever happened to so-and-so?" You want to know why there isn't a new big porn star like Jenna? Oh, gee, I dunno...maybe try keeping one or two of these girls around longer than a month? Next point; enthusiasm. Both the girls and the guys should be enjoying themselves! My god, they're fucking. I love to fuck. Don't you love to fuck? The only thing worse than lame boring sex is watching other people have lame boring sex. That doesn't mean overdo it, however. Fantasy can be believable, you know. Bad angles, lighting, and makeup are always a bone of contention among consumers and I have to agree whole-heartedly. If you're taking the time and the money to shoot pornography, why on earth wouldn't you want to make it look as good as possible?? And I also agree about the lack of distinct fetishes. That's one of the things I'm looking most forward to as my own career grows and evolves. Maybe it's not just the directors/producers...maybe there's a lack of girls out there willing to do things like forced orgasm, watersports, fucking machines, etc. Just because not everyone we know is into it doesn't mean that there isn't a surprisingly large fanbase for it. Basically, what I want to see happen with the porn industry is more thinking outside the box. Okay, so you found a formula that works. Now IMPROVE it. Porn should be the epitome of new and different ideas, really creative stuff, and that doesn't mean spending big bucks on the artsy fartsy films (which I happen to love, by the way...). That simply means improve your product, not just by stepping up the basic quality levels, but make it better because it looks like you took the time, effort and enegry to actually make it different than 90% of what's out there!
Slut: A person of any gender who has the courage to lead life according to the radical proposition that sex is nice and pleasure is good for you.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 6 2009 : 11:15PM
That's interesting. So the market place is really getting what they deserve. I will need to ponder that one for a while. How did your friend, the director, manufacture his audience? I wonder, and I don't expect you to know, how this assembly line porn, that he manufactures, affect him personally? I wonder, if there is a PTSD kind of thing going on. Can someone become so jaded by making porn, like you describe, that it creates a bit of psychic scar tissue that spills over into his private life and prevents him from enjoying any real intimacy? I guess this is a subject for another thread.
Duefuss already "manhandled" this pathetic post by 30cc Load for me Bigfoot; here's what he wrote: 12) Guys pretending not to know an opinion when they read one just so they can make what they think is a witty reply. How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct. - Benjamin Disraeli This is my list of "personal" opinions and what I don't care for when watching porn, I'm not trying to push my POV across fifty states or on anyone. You watch whatever type of porn you choose, and when you do, have fun doing so. But don't make the mistake of misinterpreting my post; I don't believe my list to be commandments, just opinions! There's a differnce, so learn how to separate the two. The only thing I really wanted people to get when reading my list was some laughs, a lot of the points I make are presented in a humerous way. P.S. As long as I have my old Nikki Dial dvds, the porn industry can crank out any type of porn it chooses, and you can buy it...just not me.
I think you might be almost right here. But rather than anything so complex as PTSD, I think it's probably sheer apathy and boredom. If such people ever were inspired and creative at all, they got bored and lazy and fell into a comfortable pattern of making a product that's just "good enough". This happens in almost any line of work but it takes an especially noticeable toll on a product that requires constant inspiration, creativity, enthusiasm, refinement and hard work. Pornographers seem to always have to be active. They don't have time to take a breather and let new ideas develop. They can't afford to wait until it all comes together and they're in the mood to work. They don't seem to have time to tweak and perfect their product. It seems like it's all about churning out as much product as possible in the shortest amount of time. The only way to do it is to develop a formula and hope it sells. Porn that's just "good enough" doesn't really work for me. I want to jerk off to porn that makes me so hot I can't help but blow a load. It has to be really good and well done every single time. Each scene has to be unique and special. You can't do that with a formula. Edited by - randomprecision on 7/7/2009 1:46:30 AM
The make or break for a scene for me is whether the guy encourages the girl to assert herself, share the pounding. I am aroused when it's clear that the girl is aroused, which happens more often when she gets to ride on top and pound the cock or grind into it in missionary and other positions. This kind of action NEVER seems to happen with some male "talent": Mark Ashley,John Strong, Lee Stone, Talon, Michael Stephano, and Manuel Ferrara. They play into the traditional "macho man" deal, dominating and controlling the girl and the pounding. These guys are also SO over-exposed, going through the same motions ad nauseum. I AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE. So that's what destroys porn for me. Fortunately I can often find stuff that omits these guys. I am amazed that more folks who submit opinions here don't seem to share this concern. I haven't yet read all of the posts here, and applaud Pinkwater4110 for seeing this major problem. A corrolary: if the girls are going through the motions, it doesn't matter who the guy is.... Newbie teens are most likely to be into the scene and really get off. PornAgain
Many things have changed porn over the years. Some people like today's porn better than 80's and early 90's stuff. I for one don't, but I can't turn back time. Today's porn is just too concerned with dominating the woman with hulking, tatooted men. I used to rent a great deal of my porn, but I just can't find good movies anymore. Some of the top rentals are Anal Academics, Gap Lovers, Gapeman #3, and Big Ass Anal Oil Pileup. Lol. What happened to porn that made an attempt at a storyline for those of us who are not just into watching anal crap for 90 minutes. You have to search high and low just to find something like Operation Desert Stormy, which is a decent porn flick. As to the original poster, I agree with your comments to some extent. There is no need for the guys to give direction to women throughout the scene. I mean it is one thing to say I like that and another to constantly interrupt the woman with suck that d**k talk for five minutes straight. Just film the scene and look like a pro. Try to blend into the scene, not make it look ridiculous. The group sex scenes just plain suck in my opinion because you can't have five guys having sex with one woman at the same time. It just wasn't meant to be from a physical standpoint. I mean it isn't exactly rocket science to figure that one out. Gangbang scenes are mostly about domination over the woman, which I don't care for to begin with. 5) Too Much Anal: lol. Yep. Some anal is fine to appeal to everyone, but it has become more and more prevalent in today's porn. Anal can be sexy and fun to watch, but do we really need titles like gaping ***holes. On a side note, somebody actually started a thread titled "Loosest Asshole in the biz." That about sums up where porn has gone today both in terms of production and fan base.
Edited by - john5527 on 7/27/2009 11:41:00 PM Edited by - john5527 on 7/27/2009 11:46:33 PM
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budlover Deactivated User
421 Posts 7/09
Posted - Jul 28 2009 : 12:30AM
wHATS DESTROYING PORN? Thats easy;fucking violence is destroying porn. Who the hell gets off watching a woman get slapped, sick fucks thats who and I dont mean your run of the mill perverts like me, I mean if a woman wants a little smack on the ass thats one thing but assholes like Max I cant stand the MF Stiener aka Hardcore should get out of the business. He's the kind of inhuman fuck that should be banned, but whats sad is there are much worse than him out there.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 28 2009 : 3:48AM
Actually the roughness in porn sex has gone into decline recently, you can hear some fans here whine about it, but what's really happened is that it has just moved into the appropriate clearly-marketed niche it should have been all along. As long as Jake Malone, Belladonna, Rocco and Mason are producing films I don't think fans of the rough stuff have much to complain about, and those who don't like it can just avoid those titles. Max Hardcore, in case you didn't hear, has been convicted of obscenity and sent to jail for 4 years. He's pretty much done, stick a fork in him.
I think that's because the violence is just a part of the scene now. Like, you don't have to make a slap movie anymore because just about every scene has some slapping in it. It might not be hard slap but there seems to be a lot of slapping. Slaps and Spit take away from the "natural" feeling of a scene. It always reminds me that im watching porn.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 28 2009 : 4:19AM
I have to disagree, I just don't see this in the porn I'm watching, maybe it depends on the companies you frequent. I mostly watch Elegant Angel these days, and outside of the James Deen scenes I don't see slapping going on very often. I don't recall much of this in Justin Slayer's films, Stefano and Mike John's POV stuff, Juan Cuba, Tom Byron, Mark Wood all pretty much nada. I usually find it distracting outside of S&M flavoured titles and wouldn't be purchasing their porn otherwise. Evil Angel more so, depends on the title. As I recall Anabolic, Diabolic and Red Light were the worse for having pointless roughness in pretty much every scene.
I was never a fan of him and didn't follow his work. I feel that he got what he deserved. His material is way over the top. No need to see that kind of stuff in porn. There has to be a line drawn somewhere that the general public just doesn't need to see crossed.
This forum needs to just realize that while you may not like something in porn, someone else does. It's quite simple, porn is made for what the dollars are spent on. I also said this recently on another forum, porn has little to do with what most people want, and everything to do with what enough people are willing to pay for. And let us not lose sight of what porn really is to most people, a quick masturbatory aide, nothing more. How are you ever going to convince such a person of the benefits of "proper" acting, directing, lighting, sets, etc. etc. etc. He just wants to jerk off, and will watch what makes his dick hardest the fastest. If anyone wants porn to change or to improve in any way, then you better the one be spending money on the products you appreciate, and that's all you can do. And if the porn you want doesn't exist, then by all means buy a camera, move to Silicone Valley, and get to work! If enough people like the same things you do, you'll make money. Edited by - just_me on 7/29/2009 9:37:44 PM
I always buy what I like, but that hasn't translated into more production of what I like. I am afraid the minority is always going to lose in the porn world. Not many people enjoy what I do. I don't like annoying facials, anal, or anything that degrades women. Off the bat, probably 80% of guys love anal and want to see more facials, so I lose. Just the way it is. I guess I am just too vanilla and boring for most porn. I only go for scenes where the dude doesn't whack his own meat onto the girl for the finish. That alone eliminates about 90% of porn. lol
1. Morals 2. Irony 3. Opinionated morons 4. Hypocricy 5. Whiners 6. Complainers ... or at least they would hope to "destroy porn". Seriously though, how many "bitch about 10 things you don't like to see in porn" threads do we need? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is destroying porn. For everything you don't like, there is someone else out there who does. A simple solution: If you don't like it, don't watch it. If nobody likes it, it won't sell and they won't make any more of it.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Jul 31 2009 : 7:46AM
I think Realtip's is a good list, but I have to wonder about the following: "6.) Porn giving up its edge in order to submit to senseless PC influences. For example, porn can now only show women acting like men, since showing women in submission might be viewed as "misogyny." Also, porn cannot show rape-fantasy because it might confuse people who will mistake the fantasy for reality. Also, if porn does age-play, then the men involved will be accused of being "pedophiles." Unfortunately, the list of how PC has infected porn (except when it comes to race) is endless." I don't know what porn Realtip is watching, but the stuff I see available, with regard to submission, misogony, and age play, etc. is plentiful. Porn is about as "PC" as a Klan Rally at the White House. Might Realtip consent to give a specific example of the kind if industry surrender to political correctness he refers to?
Well, it could be "worse". Not that I think the stuff they're already doing is a brilliant idea with so many people just looking for something or someone to persecute. Just that it could be worse. The American porn industry leaves all the really edgy stuff to people in countries like Germany. A lot of that shit (no pun) would never fly here. Kink.com might seem hardcore if you don't know anything about real BDSM but they're actually pretty soft. They're actually as fluffy as cotton candy compared to the way some real life BDSMers play. Edited by - randomprecision on 7/31/2009 8:21:49 AM