Seriously, though ... So don't pay 'em. The market will sort itself out, won't it?

Edited by - skronker on 8/2/2006 12:46:08 AM

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How much of a role do on-line rentals play in this dropping off. I mean I haven't bought a new product in years.

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Why is this the summer of your discontent? Because your porn isn't selling? Your profits are down and your costs are up? Next you'll blame the consumer. It sounds like it's going to be a long winter.

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If the market is really as bad as you describe it in the first part of your post, expect the rates to go down soon.
If it doesnt, I think you are overreacting. Not that I know anything about the porn business, but it's a pretty usuall market trend.

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dan

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Apparently it's been a bad summer for some people in the biz but not ALL people in the biz. My schedule has not slowed down at all. That's not to say that we're the greatest company in the world yadayadayada.. but it is a fact that some companies out there have not felt this "black summer of 06". As far as the rates for talent go, it's a free market. I just shot Amy Reid in two scenes today at her exhorbitant rate; why? because the amount of pieces we sell justifies the expenditure.

Again, I'm not trying to say "we sell tons of movies and you don't" but we sell enough that we can afford to pay Amy Reid, Jenna Haze etc. what they ask for. Amy told me what Jules paid her for an anal scene and I almost passed out. Assuming what she said is true, he can clearly afford it and it's obviously worth it to him.

Do I wish rates were cheaper? Hell yes but that's the cost of doing business as things stand today. If the talent were feeling the pinch they'd be the first ones to drop their price but apparently there's enough people shooting, even during "the summer that time forgot", that are willing to pay their rates. When they price themselves beyond the reach of enough companies, they will work less and less and their rates will drop. That's Capitalism in action. As a camerman/Director I want to make as much money as I possibly can. You can't blame the talent for wanting the same thing.

My 2 cents. As I've said before, I could be wrong.

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Edited by - 4theheart on 8/2/2006 3:00:24 AM

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And male performers are those running this ship, so just stfu...

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If this Amy can get others to pay her fee, why the feck should she reduce her rates for you or anyone else who can't afford her?

If a performer can't cut it, don't hire him/her.
If you can't sell your product, get out of the business.

Those companies you mentioned: Redlight, Metro, Legend, DVSX, etc.; could it perhaps be that their product has gone down the crapper?

It doesn't sound like Mike Quasar is feeling the pinch.
What about Digital Playground? Evil Angel?

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*edited for spelling*
Edited by - tyler knight on 8/2/2006 4:04:37 AM

Edited by - tyler knight on 8/2/2006 4:19:15 AM

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Personally, i have stopped caring about current American porn with a few exceptions. I still go back to the good 2001-2005 stuff and i follow the current Euro porn, which features a fresh crop of excellent girls, that apparently many american companies are oblivious of.

Edited by - Rogue on 8/2/2006 6:05:16 AM

Edited by - Rogue on 8/2/2006 6:06:53 AM

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In the meantime, companies need to adjust to changing market conditions. The consolidation trend, not performer rates is biggest threat facing smaller producers. The P-boyClubJ merger + the decision at Vivid and Wicked to go after the gonzo market will make the 'big guys' even bigger. Who wasn't shocked by the news that a 'Darksided of Julia Ann,' movie was in the works? But, I don't think this was a panic move on Wicked's part. Given the current economic climate this makes perfect sense. Yes even the big guys have had to make cuts, but at the same time this market provides them with the perfect opportunity to pick off the more vulnerable competition. It's a game called monopoly.

The mom and pop, hand-to-mouth producers need to come up with a strategy that allows them to survive in this environment. Lower performer rates might be a quick fix, but, six or twelve months from now you'd find yourself back in the same boat.

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The real break through will be to introduce a new type of fan/buyer to the industry. Not just the fanboy types that want to see Girl A, do Sex Act F.. That way the product is not so focused on one small, almost insignificant group of people....

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- Mike

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In every respect -- the performer pay rates, the flooded market. Supply and demand.

These things are just forces. In the 1800's, a lot of small towns became big cities because the railroad came through. One town grew, others in the area withered. Later, a lot of the boomtowns died with the railroads. It's not like there's anyone to blame for trends. Or any purpose to laying blame.

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They should then incorporate as many of these as practical into their movies. And I'm not referring to, say, double anal as a fetish. I mean things that appealed to boys and girls as they were just becoming pubescent which they've carried with them into adulthood as symbols of sexuality.

Smoking is obviously one, but so might something like a girl painting her toenails or wearing hoop earrings. These are all activities that girls on the cusp of their sexual blossoming started indulging just as guys began to notice them in a sexual way.

Put enough of them in one movie and I've got to think a previously passive audience will go ga-ga to see as many ladies as possible toying with their locked up secrets.

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You know why the top studs can command a high rate? Yeah, they're dependable on set, etc, but it's really because they have female fans and gay fans. Female fans are loyal. And, if a guy works well with a particular female star, we'll buy every title those two are in together. Unfortunately, due to this attitude that female talent are basically disposable, with only a 3-4 year shelf life at most, with few exceptions, we rarely get a chance to see multiple pairings between male and female talent that work well together.

I've been at ADT for a while now, and I've come to note that many male fans always want something new. They want surprises. Whereas I and my girlfriends, and some of the men here at ADT, want to know what we're getting. The male talent are NOT simply props, especially the good ones. They set the tone for the scene, because it takes two to tango. Fans that look for heat and chemistry (I'm not talking hearts and flowers, stupid plots or romantic bullshit), but genuine sparks and passion, look for certain names in the male cast.

Hell, just look at some of the polls on here. If there's a poll about sexiest mainstream movie-stars, you'll see posts of long, long lists by some some male ADT members, and when most of us women post, our lists are short. And most of us have admired or lusted after those particular men for a long time. Again, loyalty. Return customers. THAT is where the money is, and it's just sitting in the purses of an entire gender of potential customers that nobody seems interested in courting. That's idiotic.

On an unrelated note, I have a radical theory about the dip in sales this year. Over 100,000 of the industry's most consistently dependable customers are stuck in Iraq where they can't get any porn. Not to mention all the civilian contractors. A big chunk of the American military, historically voracious consumers of porn, can't buy the product right now.

Edited by - Pagoda on 8/2/2006 1:09:35 PM

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I also wouldn't pay as much for a robotic or lame guy as I would for someone like Mr. Pete or Manuel.

You get what you pay for, and if the performers raise their prices TOO high, they won't find enough work, and the market will adjust itself.
When Evil Angel first started shooting in Europe, all the European porn companies HATED us. Because we paid the girls about double or more than that what the European companies were paying them. Then the girls expected that from the European companies too. Know what, within 5 or 10 years, the European companies have also realized that you get what you pay for. And if a girl (or guy) doesn't feel like she got ripped off by a producer, she's more willing to give 100%.

For me, it's always been about quality more so than quantity. Even when the quantity we're talking about refers to $$$.

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As for male talent, can I pay Eli $10 to be in a scene? I can't believe guys want that much to do this unless they're physical freaks of nature ;-)

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Sure prices go up, supply and demand and all that but really, in a market where most guys' rates are between $600-700 it is absurd for a NEW guy to charge that much. I won't hire him either! And the girls rates are pretty much staying the same. So it's not everyone's rates going up.

Sure this summer sucks, but every summer is slow and it will come back. Always does. But again this post wasn't about summer sucking, it was about guys rates and the current trend.

The GUYS have NEVER sold the movies in this industry - with the exception of I think Eli was trying to say, like Rocco or Ron Jeremy - the girls do! Do you rent porn because there is a hot GUY on the boxcover? Sure maybe you have learned your favorite directors and like their style and you might look for their releases, but it all comes down to the GIRLS in the movie, not the guys.

And yes, Tricia, alot of these new guys do suck. I was on the set with one guy who is notoriously having wood trouble on every set, and yet asking $800. The diector got MAYBE 3 minutes of hardcore. Needless to say that director also didn't pay his full rate. If you find a good one let me know!

Anyway, I got off on a rant, but I agree with Eli. It is a bit ridiculous. As a company owner and director I certainly won't pay it - and it's not that I can't, I just won't - but as long as others do it will keep on going this same way.

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"woodless noob" *giggle*

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BTW - nice post.

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Don't tell anyboby, but there's a man ass pic of me on your bed. He he he.

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I can think of analogies in the sports world where a rookie has to "pay their dues" but I don't think this directly transfers over to the world of adult entertainment.

So what, in your opinion, are these dues that new girls and guys need to pay?

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Producers complaining about talent rates is funny!

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In 1998, I rented a 1,200 sq. foot two bedroom condo in Sherman Oaks for $665.00 a month; the LA Times states that the going rate for a cramped "junior" one-bedroom in 2006 is around $1,350.

You don't think someone is worth their rate? Fine, don't hire them. But in George W. Bush's inflation-ravaged wreck of a nation, expecting people to maintain "industry rates" is about as practical as expecting a peaceful, smooth-running Jeffersonian Democracy to spring up in Iraq.

DMPR: PR For The New Core

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I'm sure a performer would be happy to do a scene for $200 or $300 IF a studio would also agree to pay him/her 1% of all future profits on that title (including comps) in perpetuity. But since no adult studio out there is going to offer that, $1000 it is!

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It's multi jizzillion dollar a year industry!

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After you've proven yourself and "paid your dues", so to speak, if directors, producers and fellow performers feel you are worth an above-average rate, then sure, it's justified to some extent. But these rookies need to be taking home the league minimum for now until they get some seasoning, have more than a few scenes under their belts or they somehow otherwise show they are worth "special" consideration as far as their pay.

Jenna Haze? Pay her. Amy Ried? Don't make me laugh. Tory Lane, Sandra Romain, Eva Angelina and Gianna and only a scant few others, in my humble opinion, should be the highest paid girls working. With every single one of the ladies I mentioned, you know you're going to get what you paid for EVERY time. I've spoken on this before:

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