Basic porn fan here, with a small comment.

I've been here awhile, (three years), and I gotta say that this is one of the most enjoyable and informative porn industry threads I've read. Even though it started out as a rant, it did introduce an interesting topic that has provoked many thoughtful, knowledgable and well articulated answers and opinions from all corners of the porn industry; fans, directors, performers, producers and PR folks.

101 posts in, and it hasn't gotten sideways or stupid, or devolved into useless name calling, and each post seems to bring something interesting.

Good thread, thank you ADT.

BSD

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Tomorrow I shoot three scenes for my next movie and I use only expensive guys. It is my choice. Nobody forces me. But I rather pay Manuel Ferrara 1k than some other guys $600 because I know what I get.

I know also that you sell the movie for the girl. But for the movie making perspective the guy is more important. I've seen lame scenes with great girls when the have the wrong partner.

Just two weeks ago I spend more money on a girl than ever. 3k, but I felt she was worth it. Again, nobody forced me to do it.

Steve Holmes

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Let me make on more point: with so many companies out there shooting and putting out product, and the same girls appearing over and over again on boxcovers, strong male talent can be one of the ways companies differentiate their product from others.

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People like Steve Holmes, Tony T., John Strong, James Deen: these guys maintain their rate and keep it because of their level of performance. And when they do catch a rare bad scene, they will compromise with the director because it wasn't of the level they're capable of.

I'm talking about all those knuckleheads out there who switch from rate to rate. They're the ones going to pay the piper sooner or later because of their escalating and de-escalating pay scales depending on the producers. Again, I only work with male talent I enjoy shooting. Bring ego or some bullshit onto the set, and I will throw you off. Once again, I won't name names but I have a 'ban' list a page deep of bratts that change their rates depending on shooters.

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It's hardly unheard of in mainstream movies for someone to work for less than their usual salary because the script interests them or they want to work for the director.
The concept is not even that unusual in various Engineering or Scientific professions.

Porn is in may ways different, of course, but some concepts remain the same.

Working for Joone on a movie with a huge budget by porn standards, or on some Jenna Jameson movie, may mean longer hours, but it could also mean much more exposure. And also more positive exposure and simply a more positive experience than working for a director who, by his own admission, is regularly drunk while shooting.

Secondly, they might not take your threats of boycotting them too seriously, seeing that you once again list Tony T as one of your stable of dependable cocksmen.
A man you said you'd never talk to again, never see again, not accept an apology from. A man who was using a fake social security card, was on some list from Homeland Security, and might well soon be deported.

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If Ron Jeremy did porno, i think that prove how an assorie the male is...as long as there some hot chicks that get banged.

Im sure you would ask on the street great looking guys "how about shooting a porno with a know pornstar" and you would get enought actor for a movie in 1 hour. Of course guy with girlfriends would say no but guys that are alone...

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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Webster's says: be-hoove - v. "To benefit or give advantage."

Not exactly the meaning I think was intended...

"someone can call me, announce his rate is some ridiculous number, let's say $800 a scene, when they strike deals for $500 - $600 elsewhere"

Seriously, so what? This happens in independent film, music, and most other entertainment arenas all the time. Once again, Free Market Capitalism, supply-and-demand. An independent contractor has every right to slash and/or inflate their rate at will, and you have every right to hire or not hire them because of it.

America was built this way. Unless they are a member of the IWW (and frankly I'm not aware of any one in the industry other than myself who is) they are not signatory to any union, and not required to adhere to any mythical "industry rates."

I wonder if Dickens' Chimney Sweeps were kept in line by being told to stop asking for more money as well?

DMPR: PR For The New Core

Edited by - Daniel Metcalf Public Relations on 8/4/2006 1:43:56 PM

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There are some performers that work for less for people who gave them their first shot in the business. I consider that more out of respect than anything. I know Internet companies that pay cash and performers again are willing to work for a little less. Nothing wrong with that again. I don't pay cash but I understand.

And frankly you're argument is relatively mute. Joone's sets are normally all-day feature sets and they pay handsomely above and beyond what us little gonzo players pay.

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And as a free market, someone quotes a price, I turn it down and ask for something significantly lower or not hire them at all.

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And having been with Wicked for six years, I agree that we have to differentiate between how gonzo and all-day feature guys may pay talent. There's a big difference between giving you two or three hours and giving Michael Raven 14 hours, pages of dialogue, etc.

DMPR: PR For The New Core

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Edited by - tonyc on 8/4/2006 4:06:12 PM

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Edited by - alexander portnoy on 8/4/2006 4:29:09 PM

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Here's my theory for why the industry is taking a hit: Because when I google "hot sex" or "cumshot", I don't get results that say "Evil Angel" or "Digital Sin". I get "Bang Bros" and "VideosZ" or some shit I've never heard of that's different every time I google.

If I were a producer, I would hold onto my shit so that no one could get my shit online without my brand on it. Fuck outsourcing my shit. You want BustdownGal brand videos, you go to Bustdowngal.com motherfucker! I see bustdowngal.com in the bottom corner of some vidclip of another website...sheeeit! Prepare to cease and desist, motherfucker. My lawyers *stay* down!

I love pornos, man. Love the industry! But the internet has changed the industry. The new consumer of porn gets his porn online in the form of downloadable clips. It's not like the old days where your competition was a thousand other videos in the local store. Your competition is a *million* other results that come up when Johnny types in "adult videos." Porn Valley controls the content, man! Porn Valley producers make most of these clips that are out there, so Porn Valley's brands should be on these videos. If I went into a bricks and mortar store and there were thousands of studio brands instead of a few dozen, that would mean my money is getting spread thinner.

Of course, this is not a point of view bricks and mortar retailers like. But you all produce the content, so you control the content. See, pornos are different from mainstream movies. Mainstream movies are are 90 to 120 minute units. If you're gonna download SpiderMan 3, you're gonna download the whole thing. Not the same for most pornos. Porno chunks can be anywhere from 5-25 minutes. Cuz pornos are much more amenable to being broken up into individual scenes. Each scene is a unit, as opposed to the whole movie being a unit. Which means pornos are much easier to download than mainstream. In the time I can download Superman returns, I can download 8 porn scenes, each of which can make me cum 1-3 times, depending on how experienced a buyer I am.

And don't forget that these days, the industry is competing with "Free". I'll admit it man...although DVD's are better than free online clips in terms of quality, the "Free" aspect makes that low-quality shit not seem so bad.

Bang Bros. has shown the industry the way, man. Get on that shit. Control your content. Brand your shit. Pull in the reins on the internet money your well-produced product is pulling in.

"Fashion modelling eliminates womanhood. Porn modelling exagerrates womanhood."

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1. John Holmes (yes even still)
2. Ron Jeremy
3. Peter North
4. Rocco
5. Lexington Steele
6. Nacho
7. Julian

"Income-attracting" only means "who my experience shows is a known-enough name/face/cock to make a title move off a shelf." It has little to do with what *I* think of the performer skills, so don't be mad if you're not on the list. It's all about branding and about popularity in the mainstream culture. The top 3 are the porn dudes even people who don't watch porn know, and the next 4 have great sex toy endorsements combined with a long history and good reputation in the industry and among fans.

I didn't include Buttman and Jules because they're not freelancers like the above list. They both have their own worlds around them because they direct so much, and their reps as directors are as/more important than their own performances. But...Buttman and Jules definitely are guaranteed sales generators.

"Fashion modelling eliminates womanhood. Porn modelling exagerrates womanhood."

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But I also agree that money up front can be better because companies do go out of business. But them, some don't. Like Leisure Time, king of comps. But when companies go out of business and get bought out, usually the buyer of the content goes crazy making comps out of it, because that's all a company can do with it.

Let's not forget about the prevalence of comps. You can do a scene in a feature, then that scene will end up in comps for

*the feature's director
*the performer herself
*each of the performer's physical attributes (all-blondes, tall girls, blue-eyed girls, big boobs, tattoos)
*each of the performer's co-stars
*each individual category of sexual act performed in the scene (DP, anal, PIV, oral)
*the cumshot for the scene will definitely be "compilated"

And just random comps that include the scene for any reason or no reason. Comps make money, dude, don't doubt it. They're cheap cuz all you have to do is cut and paste. Almost all the overhead for shooting a video is gone when you make a comp. Plus, you can make comps forever from a scene. FOREVER! We haven't really felt this because home video is only 25 or so years old. But in 100 years, whoever owns Anabolic's product will still be making comps and money from scenes shot to-DAY, long after everyone involved in the shoot has left this planet.

Dang...I've just convinced myself that maybe performers *should* start asking for more money. Harrison Ford makes money "off the back end", why shouldn't Steve Holmes?

Hmm...maybe that's why performers start producing/directing their own product. Because they realize they've got a little weight with fans, but somebody else is making money off them.

"Fashion modelling eliminates womanhood. Porn modelling exagerrates womanhood."

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That's right! I said it!

The best adult stores, in my experience, are ones that are part of a mainstream video chain. No weird smells, no sense of seediness and they actually use their brains and computers to decide what product to keep in stock.

BDGal

"Fashion modelling eliminates womanhood. Porn modelling exagerrates womanhood."

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I think that "paying your dues" in the porn industry for male performers is just shorthand for saying "he knows what to do." You hire a guy with experience, and the assumption is he's going to come in and know what to do and do it. As long as he can do what needs to be done, then he deserves his rep and a little respect and status. Now...if he's done more than "pay his dues" and he's got a name that fans recognize, then you've got to deal with that. Ya see, it's not like it was in the 80's and early 90's. Because of the internet and the general expansion of porn's popularity, many male performers have fan bases now, not just the "legends." Erik Everhard is not "legend" yet, but he has a fan base. Brandon Iron, same thing. Mr. Marcus, same thing.

I agree with your assessment that "old doesn't always mean good." But you've got to think about your audience sometimes. What a new girl has in fan tonnage when she's new, a Bobby Vitale has built up over his years in the industry. But I backtrack on myself on that thought, too, cuz, if a dude doesn't work well on my set, he's gone, no matter his reputation.

And yes, the gals in the industry can have a short life-span, but! If she's smart she knows how to spin those 1 or 4 years of intense fan love into an eternal revenue-generator with websites, photo shoots, dance tours, escorting, etc. I myself am still stuck on certain performers who haven't made so much as a bathing suit polaroid in 10 years.

BDGal

"Fashion modelling eliminates womanhood. Porn modelling exagerrates womanhood."

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Quaze, you shot Amy only 2 days ago?!! That sounds as if maybe she's picking & choosing her shoots, no? She took an alleged "break" from the biz, and jumped ship @ LA Direct, but she only shot for your 2 days ago on 8/2/06? Good news...albeit, her rates as they've been publicized still seem ridiculous.

The maiden anal scene, however? Yikes, I shiver at the costs...but Ass Worship #10 is on deck for that series, and it MUST be special! Always a fountain of info, Quaze!!

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When it comes to male porn stars they do have fans straight and gay. Dave Cummings is a great male porn star who really seems to enjoy what he is doing. Note to Dave take your shirt off in the Screw My Wife Series so what if you got a tummy. We want to see it all baby. Jim Slip is another male performer who really gives a good hard fuck and his website is great. Claudio and Marco also are my other faves.

I now import from Europe most of my porn movies as they offer alot bigger variety. They cater to more fetishes and the girls really earn the money. Quality is good and you actually get the performers that are on the box. They listen to their fanbase and keep making what sells even if its a little kinky.

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Edited by - Shotgun Styles on 8/4/2006 11:35:27 PM

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Something tells me it's still the girls that sell even in these titles, you just happen to prefer seeing them get donged solely by black men.

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Edited by - skronker on 8/5/2006 12:21:52 AM

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No inferiority here man...thanks for the unbalanced suggestion though.

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