I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 14 2010 : 9:40AM
Katja Kassin, awesome that you are in school and doing well! I wish you the best and you'll go on to be a big success in the "straight world." There will always be work for you after you earn your degree in Portland, Oregon which has a huge Russian community & the State and Municipal Gov't always need smart & talented people! Bless you keep doing well!
I like furious scenes as much as the next man, but scenes where they go out of their way to humiliate or abuse the talent is wood killer and then some.
gouman -- I assume that you know that Katja was speaking figuratively rather than literally. If I'm correct, then you're being rude. Katja is a long-time and well-liked member of this cyber-community. People who have enjoyed her posts here, people who have met her over the years, are glad to hear that she's thriving in her post-porn career. We're rooting for her success and satisfaction with whatever she chooses to do in life. Don't rain on her parade. If you can't be polite, please refrain from posting.
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 3:51AM
^ hey bob thanks for addressing that comment by gouman. Katya is on to bigger and better things and will do so even with small people making dick comments like gouman flapping their gums. thanks for getting this person "right." Go 'head and do your think Katya! [mod edit: quote removed] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 8/16/2010 4:27:01 PM
Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00
Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 5:50AM
You have a cross-eyed fetish haven't you?
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gouman Deactivated User
I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish. 30 Posts 8/09
Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 6:46AM
@Bob, I think your jumping to a conclusion. I also think it's debatable whether or not Katja was using a figure of speech or being literal. If figurative speech was her intent, it was poorly executed. "It's raining cats and dogs", or "I fell head over heels in love" are examples of unequivocal figures of speech. Anyway, I'm not responding to argue about use of language. My point is, interpretation is up for debate, I think my response was warranted given my interpretation. She mentioned reality and trying to find it, then she follows with a clause that suggest something that was real "her porn career" feels like it wasn't real. Now assuming she wants to find reality, clearly, losing sight of the fact that she was a pornstar would be contrary to finding (or similarly, accepting) reality. So in a nutshell, I was just providing a reality check to someone who sounded like they might need it. I'm admittedly a blunt and literal person, and an extreme realist. I'm not known for softening my prose for the sake of others feelings -- I prefer to give it to people straight. It's served me quite well, though some people will undoubtedly say I'm rude. To me it's a small price to pay for the benefits of not being known to "beat around the bush" (lol, another classic figure of speech). @Delriolover, sounds like you wanted to confront my comment, but for whatever reason you didn't (maybe because you've got nothing), and now your piggybacking on Bob's ideas. Anyway, my comment was not meant to try and bring Katja down. I hope she remains a productive citizen who contributes to U.S. GDP, pays taxes to support transfer payments and provides continues to generally be responsible for her own welfare. Whether she does the above as pornstar or satellite security lawyer, I'm for the most part indifferent, both are more respectable than sitting around looking for handouts. In general whatever pornstars do when they retire, they will do so in the context that they are ex pornstars, just like Bill Clinton will do everything in the context of an ex President. Basically I was alluding to facing a fact. Your beef seems to be with assumptions about other peoples perception of a fact. In this case you're assuming mine are negative. Maybe I'm wrong....I really don't care either way. Win or lose, I just like using my brain to break down arguments for soundness, truth, validity -- it keeps the mind sharp. What the hell am I doing up at 5:45 am on Sunday, I've got to get my insomnia under control...
Lawyers are whores so dozens of ex-PWs in eastern law schools makes sense. Lawyers are adept liars, lawyering requires no scientific skills. It all begins to make perfect sense.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 8:42AM
I have been friends with Chessie Moore for years now. While she still does some escorting and some of her own videos, she and her husband Steve now just spend most of their time on a little farm in Kansas. Didn't Guage pretty much do the same sort of thing?
[...] I'm admittedly a blunt and literal person, and an extreme realist. I'm not known for softening my prose for the sake of others feelings -- I prefer to give it to people straight. It's served me quite well, though some people will undoubtedly say I'm rude. To me it's a small price to pay for the benefits of not being known to "beat around the bush" (lol, another classic figure of speech). [...]
Click to expand
False dichotomy, thus false reasoning to say avoiding one extreme is a reason to take the other extreme. Thus this is an excuse, not a reason. You seem bright enough to find a middle ground.
Part of my work is in advertising. There are always options. I take it that you don't care to speak accurately: 'the people' largely don't want to see women being humiliated. 'the people' mostly don't watch porn, within which humiliation in the degree discussed is a small niche market. If they just wanted to take a professional commercial approach they'd go for a larger market. Yes, 'it works', ie it makes money, but the only reason to stick with a niche is personal preference. They're doing it because they get a kick out of humiliating women and they can make money from recording it and selling the opportunity to see it. Without the first part they wouldn't care about the rest.
Sometimes the past is just the past and the more time goes by the less anyone cares. It's just an amazing story I have to tell. People who meet me in a different context don't know and if they knew they don't bring it up. You say porn stars have to live the rest of their lives as ex porn stars. I don't look at it like this. You are what you choose to be and eventhough you can't change or erase the past you have influence on your future. I don't try to hide what I did if it ever comes up I stand by it but I also don't push it in people's face. I am an ex porn star but I am so many other things too. So well anyone who wants to pick the porn star part and disregard the rest, go ahead. It's up to you. There are many people out there who understand and respect me because I'm sitting in the class room for the same reasons. I made friends with a mother of two young kids who wants to be a nurse because she wants to have a career to better her own life and provide more opportunities for her kids. I helped her with her math homework and told her about my life and really it was ok. I don't regret anything. I'm happy about where I am at. I'm now part of this great nation. I will soon have my US passport. Something I have dreamt of for so long. Besides being an ex porn star I am always gonna be the German girl who had a dream, who went to America to search for a better life - like so many other people that come here. I am the German girl who took the time to learn Spanish because she wanted to personally talk to her gardener. I am the ex porn star who volunteers her time to teach English to give people from low income backgrounds a better chance of integration and because I believe that when you come to another country you should learn the language. I am someone who doesn't just complain about something but goes out to change it. I'm sorry that you want to see ex porn stars fail and struggle but I'm not going to. I'll be great at everything I do.
^Great to hear from you Katja, I don't know who wants to see ex-pornstars fail and struggle, but I'm very happy to see that you are happy and productive, of course we would like to see you come back, but so long as you are happy doing your thing, I'm sure at least most of us are happy for you and wish you the best, same with every other retired pornstar who wants a new life.
That's the whole point. It does cater to a large market. Maybe not to you, but to a whole lot of other people in their potential audience. Like you said, the point is to make money, which is what they're doing. If only a small number of people bought it and enjoyed seeing it, then there would no point in making it.
^^my grocery store still sells olive loaf and head cheese, that doesn't mean that it flies off of the shelves. Edited by - algaliarept on 8/15/2010 6:08:56 PM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 6:56PM
^That's different. You're talking about something that people don't like.
^ but clearly, just as humiliation porn, some people must like head cheese or they wouldn't bother to use up valuable shelf space by stocking it. But both have very limited, if marginally profitable markets.
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trout bum Deactivated User
"I'm Not Here To Suck My Own Cock!" 2145 Posts 5/10
Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 7:04PM
Katja I'm another one who wishes you well. I started this forum in hopes of hearing from ex pornstars like yourself with the possibility of getting straight stories about life after porn and not a bunch of hear say second hand stories. I sure I'm probably like other following this thread who have dropped a load or two while watching you perform. Many thanks. I just may have to dig up one of your dvds from my collection and relive old times with you.
I'd say you have trouble thinking outside the box.What you prefer is clear -- but that's not the matter at issue.This is a price that other people pay for your rudeness, not you. Since you're not the one paying the price, you're ill-positioned to judge its relative size. As for the asserted "benefits" (such as they are), they accrue only to you. QED: You're acting like a jerk. Why don't you find yourself another message board -- one where people will mistake your bad manners for honesty and your arrogance for intellect.
Great stories Katja. Even though you seem to be moving on quite well, would you ever consider returning, even if just for one day?
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 1:23AM
^ My only thought is that you might have made narcissism as part of your list.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 1:30AM
For one thing, the term "humiliation porn" is both subjective and debatable. Depending on who you ask, either all porn is humiliating, or what some might consider humiliating is not to others. In any case, the whole argument that porn that focuses on the more taboo or extreme hardcore sexual acts has a marginal audience among porn viewers is simply false. The production of it may now be more marginal that other "mainstream" porn, but the audience for it is not. Even the porn industry is aware of this.
I'm not here, this isn't happening! 2571 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 2:05AM
If a pornstar tries to make a career or studies. Then would she sell her body again for money, if she'd be in need of money? I once read a quote: "You can take the girl out of the bar, but not the bar out of the girl." That's what most people think. Just be honest! And: If there would be a former pornstar I know in my class, then I surely would respect her as a woman. It's just the gaping asshole which just won't get out of my mind. Don't get me wrong. I wish every porn actress the best in her life after porn. But I hope that most of her friends just don't know of her past.
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 4:12AM
Katja, I'm all for you and wish you the very best and am very impressed with your passion for the greater good as exhibited here: I am the German girl who took the time to learn Spanish because she wanted to personally talk to her gardener. I am the ex porn star who volunteers her time to teach English to give people from low income backgrounds a better chance of integration and because I believe that when you come to another country you should learn the language. I am someone who doesn't just complain about something but goes out to change it. I know you're going to do great because you have the right attitude and are obviously intelligent & focused! Way to go and ignore some of these self-important, superior thinking people in here that elevate themselves by putting you down, you'll have the last laugh! [/quote] Edited by - vanessadelriolover on 8/16/2010 4:17:39 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 4:46AM
Anabolic, Diabolic, Red Light are all almost out of business. JM Productions, the one name company that focuses on the material you claim the masses are begging for is strictly third-tier at best. As much as I love him, Jake Malone is not the best selling director at Evil Angel. Go look at the bestsellers on web retailer or VOD sites: they are parodies, Elegant Angel titles, big butts, big boobs, anal, milf, g/g, teens. Hell even classics. The biggest website in porn: Bang Bros, where the guys wear condoms and the sex rarely goes past anal. I don't think the really rough stuff is moving the numbers you claim. It is a niche: always has been, always will be. Now you could be right, or you could be wrong about the size of the audience for this stuff, but you don't even try to present a case for your arguments, you just state it. Finally, your argument about degradation is disgenious, as your posts elsewhere make clear, you enjoy degrading material because you think it is degrading. That is the point of this kind of material, no? I don't have much of a problem with degradation in porn to some degree, as long as it's not for real. Edited by - BlackSix on 8/16/2010 5:03:37 AM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 6:00AM
I was a fan of Anabolic/Diabolic, RLD, etc. All these studios were quite recently among the most famous and lucrative studios in the industry. As a fan, I began to notice that their product started to change. Like the rest of the industry, it looked like they were starting to tone down their acts as the trend in porn began to shift away from the more hardcore extreme acts. Despite the fact that these studios had already established themselves among a major audience which attributed to their successes, it appeared that this audience was no longer being catered to. As you said, I could be wrong. But I don't think this change in trend along with the fall in profits is all just coincidence. The current best-sellers are all mainstream porn productions because that is mainly what is available. As I stated before, when there were more options available, and not just one or two studios, it made for more competition among the different genres. JMP does make "niche" porn. But like any thing else, "niche" porn has to also be of good quality. I watch JMP videos, and I must admit that I am not always impressed. Even they have toned down their products. I also wouldn't consider Jake Malone to be in this category. Of course rough porn is a niche. Everything in porn is a niche. Porn itself is a niche. But the PC attempt to relegate extreme porn to only a minimal segment of the audience is what is really disingenous. Khan Tusion, Max Hardcore, Extreme Associates, etc., were all big names in the industry and sold tons of their product. This didn't happen because only a few guys were buying it. At one time, it seemed like almost every major studio in porn was releasing a rough sex series. Again, that wouldn't have been the case if only a handful of people were into it. BangBros is indeed a very popular porn site (I don't know if it's the biggest), and a very good one. But let's not forget how it all started. BangBus, probably the most popular site on the network, is what gave BangBros the success it has now. This is a network that grew out of its most popular and oldest active site being all about a group of guys who pick up young naive girls for sex and then dump them afterwards without even paying them. At the time, this was an original idea, and a successful one, that catered to a large audience. Also, I have never been dishonest about what I do and don't enjoy watching. It is true that "degrading" porn is subjective and debatable. It is also true that I enjoy watching it if it's also good. One does not cancel out the other.
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Karloff Deactivated User
319 Posts 7/10
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 7:35AM
Jaysin is the best selling Evil Angel director. His stuff is 100% degradation, though that is never mentioned in his thread or by his fans. Baseball bats in the ass, gape eating, shitting out golf balls, A2M, spitting etc., the theme is pure degradation.
Do baseball bats in the ass lead to having to use Depends for the rest of one's life?
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gouman Deactivated User
I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish. 30 Posts 8/09
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 11:28AM
On the contrary, Bob, clarity is at the heart of the matter. Being clear is the most important aspect of communication. Being clear takes precedent over all in communication, IMO. When people aren't clear, when they beat around the bush, use image words, etc., more bad than good tends to happen. Thus, for me, I don't waste my time sugar coating, "beating around the bush", or using image words to soften the gist of my points. I believe there is something to be said for tact, but my personal opinion is that it's use should restricted for the sake of clarity. The "price" people pay for my "rudeness", is wholly subjective -- your in no position to speak for all. Some people prefer to hear it straight, even if it hurts, other would rather hear everything sugarcoated. The benefits of being upfront and blunt are not free, they come at the cost of (people like you) getting "butt hurt". Likewise, for others there can be monumental benefits. For example consider the policy maker who makes decisions that affect lives, telling them that their policy sucks when it actually sucks is better than telling than being a "yes man" in order to save your own ass. The result is, if your arguments are strong and clear, will likely result in better policies and strategies. Consider someone in shitty relationship. Telling them things will get better because it will make them feel better is not going to help them get out of a bad situation. Telling them the truth might hurt and make them cry, and make you like an asshole, but it also might get them out of a bad situation, which down the road may be better for them. Granted, giving it straight to someone on the verge of a nervous breakdown, might make them do something like commit suicide, thus tact may be in order. However, most people aren't suicidal, IMO, they are just used to people making every effort not to upset them when we speak. Lastly, Bob, your whole response is diversion from addressing what I said, in favor of how I said it. I think the coherence, validity, clarity, etc. (whatever you want to call it), of what I said, is far more important. You fail to address the above once. Instead your talking about confusing arrogance for intellect....I mean what's your point even writing that, moreover who cares, and can't somebody be both intelligent and arrogant, lol. On a final, final note. Don't think because you going to scare me off with your school yard "nobody wants you here" (on this forum) retorts. If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read my responses or reply to them -- ignore me. I'm not here to be your friend and impress and you. I'm here to reply. I believe my responses are within the posing guidelines and fairly well thought out (not perfect, especially when it comes to grammar).
For the record, I like it, and I also like saurkraut, which sits on the shelf gathering dust - thick layers of dust that I have to wash off when I get home. So I guess you could say "people like head cheese and saurkraut."
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gouman Deactivated User
I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish. 30 Posts 8/09
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 12:01PM
@Fergus Thanks for the reply. I think I get your point, I present a false dichotomy because I could use more tact when I speak (the middle ground so to speak). I disagree on the grounds that being tactful is not at the heart of communication. I agree, some situations in life call for tact, but I'm from the school of though that it should be restricted for the sake of clarity and understandability. I believe tact (i.e. the middle ground) largely defeats the purpose of clear communication. Instead, tact distorts clear communication in favor of maintaining good relations with people by trying not to them off with the way you present your thoughts. However, the point of communication is clarity and understandability of ideas, which favors the "extreme" of being as clear and direct as possible. I suppose one could argue the point of communication is to build and maintain relationships, thus tact takes precedent over directness and clarity. For me, there is no dilemma. Most situations don't call for the smoothing over ideas for the sake of not hurting the counter parties ego. When tact is required it will be so apparent, one will not hesitate apply it. Internet forum correspondence does not qualify as a venue where there is a necessity for smoothing over of speech. Of course many will disagree, which is fine. I actually like hearing dissenting opinions, especially when they are thoughtful, because they make for more lively exchanges that allows for the possibility of personal development (in general, I find personal development unlikely on a IP porn forum). Edited by - gouman on 8/16/2010 12:13:39 PM Edited by - gouman on 8/16/2010 1:38:31 PM
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 12:50PM
You are right. In an effort to establish some clarity, let me be clear, you are an asshole. Edited by - Clam Digger on 8/16/2010 12:50:48 PM
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gouman Deactivated User
I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish. 30 Posts 8/09
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 1:45PM
Thanks, Clam Digger. That's the spirit! There is no way your message is going to get lost in translation.
Is that comment appropriate? I am not perfect (far from it), but I don't go around calling people assholes. That is an insult of the second-highest degree. Where is Flash when you need him?
If you had ever lived in a foreign country and gotten to know the people and their culture then you would not be in any doubt as to what Katja meant. In short, your interpretation is wrong.
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gouman Deactivated User
I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish. 30 Posts 8/09
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 6:36PM
Um, I'm an expat living in a foreign country, lol. Also, I have no idea what you're talking about, what point you're trying to make, or what living in a foreign country and knowing it's people has to do with reading comprehension. Help me out. No, actually, don't help me out. Some argument though, pal, geez (SMH).
Believe me, I'm not that optimistic. Still -- I suspect that, in relatively short order, the administrators will do for you what you will not do for yourself.
Fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round! 1551 Posts 5/09
Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 8:39PM
^ This is the best post I've read here since I've joined ADT! It does my heart good to hear Katja tell how she's doing since she's left the porn business. I wish her well.
Katja, congratulations to you on becoming an American citizen (soon) and best wishes for your studies. I am sure that you will be successful at whatever you do. The things you want to do may have nothing at all to do with porn, and that's fine. But if you ever want to write something about your experiences or just the perspective you have now, I'm sure you'd have a lot of readers.
This admirable rejoinder reminds me of the title one of the seminal feminist texts from the 70s: "Damned Whores and God's Police". There is an idea in some people's minds that a woman can only be one of those two. If she's a 'damned whore' then she's promiscuous, untrustworthy, basically a bit evil. If she's 'God's police' she's a nun or a perfect mom, tells us all what's right and wrong, one step down from an angel. People who hold to this will see Katja as a 'damned whore' pretty much until she ascends to heaven on a blazing chariot of light after living for fifty years in a leper colony in service of the sick as a nun. They want her to fail at being anything other than a 'damned whore' unless she strives to be 'God's police'. It's evident that many posters here, and from her reports in Katja's own surroundings, are not so narrow minded. To me it's American in the best sense of the word to be pleased that Katja is moving on from one phase of her life to another, not out of shame but simply because it's better for her. Freedom and opportunity is what it's about. As a porn watcher I might always recall some of her sexual performances, but if I meet her in an office, at a Little League game or at a local Lions' dinner I wouldn't think that's relevant in that context. As a human being she strikes me (from what I've seen on screen and what she's posted here) as a likable person, and I like seeing likable people succeed in their aspirations. It's like this. An actor can do Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar' for ten months, speaking an old form of English every night for six out of seven days each week all the way through that run. But I don't expect that they speak that way out of the theatre. If I meet them ten years later and they're no longer doing Shakespeare it doesn't amount to much. I know they've done it, I know they were capable of it, but if they've moved on to other things there's no reason for me to assume it has any relevance to their current life.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 8:00PM
Did you really just compare performing Shakespeare to doing porn? Wow!
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 7:01AM
Fergus regarding this.........This admirable rejoinder reminds me of the title one of the seminal feminist texts from the 70s: "Damned Whores and God's Police"......People who hold to this will see Katja as a 'damned whore' pretty much until she ascends to heaven on a blazing chariot of light after living for fifty years in a leper colony in service of the sick as a nun. They want her to fail at being anything other than a 'damned whore' unless she strives to be 'God's police'. ..........elegantly stated and I agree wholeheartedly. Good for Claire, good for Katya and everyone that transitions gracefully out of the Biz!
Hazel Heart Interview
Posted - Aug 14 2010 : 9:40AM
My only thought is that you might have made narcissism as part of your list.