pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 3:29AM
But the posts we're referring to are not talking about fantasies, we're talking about guys who want to see women abused in reality. Not pre-established S/M or even 'abuse porn' but real life abuse. If these guys find that such a turn on how would they feel if someone decided to violently fuck them in the ass with a strap on without their permission? Why is it okay to find this 'funny' or a 'turn-on'? Would you like that done to you? Sorry, but that isn't 'masculine' that's fucking sociopathic.
I don't understand why Kink.com and Twisted Factory (and their various sub genre sites) are ok but Meatholes is not? All performers are consenting adults? Can somebody please explain it to me?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 3:50AM
Have you ever watched Meatholes? The whole point is to create the impression that there isn't full consent on Meatholes, whereas Kink.com goes out of their way to establish that everyone is full consenting. Anyways, that shitty site is long gone, so who cares at this point?
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CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User
225 Posts 9/08
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 4:53AM
Damn! Take it easy there, BlackSix! I'm just stating the facts what most men want to see in porn. It's a fantasy that some want to act out sexually in their personal life. So the closest to get to that is by watching it on adult video porn. No producer or adult film Director puts a gun to these women heads to make them do these things in. A lot of these ladies know full well, wants in store before they sign the contract. For example, how can a female be shocked she's going to be treated like that getting cock shoved down her throat, ass and pussy. You and I know, they had to seen Facialabuse.com, Ghettogaggers.com or at least did some research before hand on the internet before they took the task. I know full well they were told before hand by the Director. By the way I love Meatholes.com too bad it went away, but theres always another to take it's place. Always!
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 4:56AM
Perhaps, I've misunderstood you, could you explain what is the fantasy content in this quote? When someone steps over the line with a performer, that isn't a fantasy, that's reality. Your comments above seem to be contradicting each other.
Edited by - BlackSix on 8/18/2010 4:58:03 AM
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CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User
225 Posts 9/08
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 5:22AM
Fantasty is that what porn about an act to play out something that is missing in our sexual personal life. Degrading or abusize females play the part on a agreement before they do it on camera. I see nothing wrong with it or in that matter in a couples personal sexual life as long it's agreed on. Again it's just porn only porn.
I think the fantasy thing is good. I also think that porn actressess and actors acting are good. I recently watched a scene where the female performer didn't speak very good english, she just kinda agreed and repeated what was said to her, it was a total turnoff for me. What I got out of the scene was that she was just there for a paycheck. She wasn't turned on by what was being done to her. Maybe she was, who knows. This is something I don't get. Why do Studio's use girls like this? Yes, she was a hottie. The scene was filmed well but the girl in the scene was just simply not wanting to be there. I am sure there were choices for her and she did the scene as a consenting adult. It just depresses me to see scenes like that. Not that I have a problem with girls who like to get abused, but girls who don't like to get abused shouldn't do abusive scenes, simply my opinion.
But you need to take that up with the director or performer who stepped over the line. Without them, it never happens. The fact that some sick fuck might enjoy seeing it is a given in a world with over 6 billion people. If you can name something, someone is going to say "I'd love to see that!". You can't blame the potential audience for the people who are willing to actually do it. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/18/2010 7:25:37 AM
A paying audience creates more of the same content. More content means more directors or performers willing to step over the line to make more money. For instance, you can't blame Hollywood for producing shit when shit sells more than the good stuff. I think an audience has more power to control content than a lot of people would otherwise believe.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 9:43AM
It may in fact have a lot LESS power than YOU believe. To be sure, the content of ALL media is driven by profit, i.e., sales , but it's also dictated by complacency and timidity. You see it all the time. A movie or program comes out with a fresh approach, a new idea. It sells. Does that induce MORE freshness, more innovation? Nope. What it induces is an endless stream of bad copies until they start losing money or until the NEXT new idea somehow breaks through all the resistance to anything different that most of the entertainment industry (not just porn) has. In the case of porn, it's even worse, because no one in porn making seems to talk to anyone else in porn making, so some guy who makes rough sex vids(since that's the subject here) keeps making the same shit over and over again and his customer base that WANTS to see the same shit over and over keeps buying it. Said porn maker thereby declares "I'm making money, why should I change" and congratulates himself that HE knows what people want, making him even more resistant to anything new or any evidence that WE, the customers he doesn't have yet, would buy FAR MORE of his product if he listened to us instead of assuming HE knew better than we did. Multiply that scenario accross every genre of erotica and every producer, and you have an industry that almost NEVER innovates, changes, OR really listens to its customer base. If you don't believe that look at old threads like "porn is a dying industry" at some of the producer's arrogance and near hostility to suggestions that porn's quality has anything to do with porn's decline. And if you don't believe THAT, just look at most porn.
The only point I was trying to get across was that the same content wouldn't get made over and over again if NO ONE BOUGHT IT. I think in that strict sense, an audience can still dictate to some extent what producers are making. I'll be the first to admit that at the moment, I don't know what current audiences are asking for that porn producers aren't making. Do you think it's possible that the people who ARE requesting for change, who ARE looking for something innovative, are in fact the minority, and that if said content was to be made, it would still sell less than whatever drivel they're producing now? It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me that a producer would not make FAR MORE of whatever people were asking for, if as you say, we would buy FAR MORE of that product. Believe me, I wish it wasn't so, but in the end it all comes down to money. We may have a community here that is passionate about innovative content, but that community may be worth peanuts to the business in comparison to the wider, bottom-feeding public, who simply view porn as a bit of quick, occasional fun. And don't even get me started on Hollywood or the movie-going public in general. How is it that regurgitated bullshit like Avatar, Sex and the City and Twilight are breaking box office records, while some of the best and most innovative films of the decade such as Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Lost In Translation, Mulholland Dr, No Country For Old Men, Before Sunset and an entire slew of foreign films are failing to even scratch the record books or on occasion, even make their money back? Ignorance of what is truly innovative has bred an entire consumer base to not only fail to recognize brilliance when they see it, but to pay for and be content with what they have become accustomed to.
This is my favorite new verb. McDonald's employee: "Sir...would you like to super-size that?" Customer: "Hell no! I want to abusize that shit!" j/k around...
I'm repeating myself. No audience, no movie. The chicken or the egg, dude.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 9:37PM
Even if a scene/movie/website does set out to give the impression that there is a lack of consent, what's the problem with that? Impressions can be false. That's the whole point of the fantasy. Kink.com is OK. But like you said, it "goes out of its way to establish that everyone is full consenting." Why does it need to do that? Does it think that the viewers are that stupid that we don't already know that? The whole point of watching a movie, whether it's porn or mainstream, is for it to cause enough suspension of disbelief for the audience to think it's real, even though we know it isn't. If you go to the theater to see a movie, do you need the filmmakers coming onto the screen to show you that building didn't really blow up, and that it's all just special effects? That would really ruin the movie-watching experience. Likewise, when I'm watching a porn scene and engaging in the fantasy that the hot chick on the screen is really being dominated, I don't need for it to repeatedly remind me that it's all fake. I already know porn is fake. I don't need to be constantly hit over the head with it when I'm watching the scene, and having it ruin the fantasy of it. Thus, anytime a scene has to go that much out of its way to tell us what we already know, it not only insults our intelligence, but takes something away from the scene in the process. For this reason, I prefer the MeatHoles version of hardcore more than I prefer the Kink version. Yes, MeatHoles lets the audience enjoy the fantasy that it's real, which is what it's supposed to do. Of course, you don't care that Meatholes and the like are now gone because this type of porn was not to your liking in the first place. People who enjoyed it do care. I also doubt that there is any lack of popular demand for it to return. Unfortunately, however, I don't see that happening in this political climate.
On the general topic of this thread: I'm a fan of hot and enthusiastic sex, but I can do without any of the abuse stuff. But...as long as it's consensual, agreed to ahead of time, etc. ... to each his / her own.
There really is no point in bandying words with sociopaths and psychopaths. They will always find a way to justify their impulses and actions to themselves. The OP wasn't confessing; he was bragging. No good can come of this thread.
I don't think you are sick for getting off on it. The whole puking thing makes me want to puke though. Just my opinion. But damn, do I love to make a woman gag on my cock. This is bad of me, but I like to force her head down until she starts to gag, then I ram her head down some more. What I really like to do is use her hair and just fuck her mouth by pulling her hair and shoving her head back down on my cock until she gags. Now I have done this with 4 different women and have gotten 4 different reactions, maybe 3 as I am still seeing the 4th. #1 Reaction: "I don't need no help sucking your cock" #2 Reaction: "I love it when you pull my hair but I don't like gagging" #3 Reaction: "I love pleasing you Sir" "But if you don't want anything to do with my kids I don't want to see you anymore" I get the impression she just wanted a sugar daddy, or to feel wanted, or to be taken care of. I met her on a BDSM site. But the moment I told her I didn't want a relationship with her I kinda felt like she didn't want to gag on my cock anymore. Sounds bad, I know. That is what I don't get with women. They will do things to "Please a man that they don't like" just to make HIM happy. When she was gagging on my cock I was under the impression she enjoyed it, but after a few weeks she was like "I want a relationship" #4 Reaction: "I love gagging on your cock and having my face fucked until my lips bleed." The verdict is still out on the intentions. I am still seeing this girl. I find it hard to believe myself, but I feel very lucky to have actually found a girl who loves rough sex. I am reserved on her goals, see "Reaction #3." The thing of it is that I am REALLY into sex. I love to make a woman cum. I study sex. Is making a girl gag on your cock "abusive?" I think in situation #1 it would have been if I insisted upon it. Same thing with Situation #2, she liked her hair pulled, but if I rammed her head onto my cock, she didn't like that so if I would have done it, I think it would have been abusive. Situation 3, maybe a little abusive but she went with it and pretended to like it with good skill. If she really liked it, I won't know, never will. Situation 4? I am pretty sure I have ruined this girl. Sex will never be the same for her with somebody else. She "Really" likes to please me but I get pleased pleasing her. Crazy. I think she likes to be "used as a slut" but I'm not so sure that she is doing that for her pleasure or mine. Go back to Number 3, #3 only did it to please me. So the demons in my head think that #4" really enjoys it, or does she? She had sex with another man (I posted about it in the sex talk thread and yes I am a loser cuz I don't mind her having sex with another man and I am crazy about her). Her reason for "cheating" on me was to find out if "Sex" was satisfying with somebody else. I want to stress the "Somebody Else" part. Apparently he was a three pump chump. He didn't do shit for her. I totally don't think I am an abusive person. Just a tad bit sexually, but not over the top weird.
This is really the only thing I wanted to add. It's easy to resort to consigning such attitudes to "it's just fantasy" but for the women involved who are in distress (and again, we're talking about the posts specifically referring to wanting to see a woman in distress for real, not people enjoying a consensual sex act) it is not fantasy. To dismiss the human on the other side of the equation indicates people either don't care about her as a human, or they have their porno blinkers on.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 9:13AM
In the case of porn, I think, part of its appeal to those who got into the business is that almost no matter WHAT you made, SOMEONE would buy it. Without the requirements of production values or advertising, etc. almost anything you could get on the shelf at a porn shop would make money. That may not be the case now, since there are now so many ways to preview stuff before you pay for it and of course get it WITHOUT paying for it at all. But I reallly think some producers are so complacent that they believe nothing's changed from the good old days when they could put anything on the shelf and, unless the box was empty, they'd make money. Certainly, if that's NOT the case, there's little evidence of it that I can see. Whatever. My original point was that any ESTABLISHED porn producer is likely to have a core customer base that buys his stuff no matter what, just like movie studios can count on a certain attendance for ANYTHING with Brad Pitt in it. Any kind of drivel he chooses to offer will make SOME money, at least untill he alienates even his loyal customers. I just don't think we can make judgements about the popularity of anything in porn based simply on the premise that if it didn't sell they wouldn't make it. The apparent woes of the industry at present at least partly suggest that it's NOT selling very well, but as far as I can see, they keep making it anyway.
With the apparent recent downturn, I agree that some producers would have their backs against the wall at the moment, or at least be traveling fairly lightly in comparison with say 6 or 7 years ago. Anyone who doesn't already have an established base to rely upon for some steady income simply HAS to change in order to adapt with the times. No point producing the same shit if no one's buying it. As for the big guns, I sincerely hope they actually are capable of producing the goods if consumers ever stop buying blindly. Up until then, it simply boils down to artistic pride and a willingness to listen to consumers as to whether they produce anything new or innovative. Some of them will never have to, will never aspire to, and as long as the dollars keep rolling in, never will. I believe this is where consumers come in. As you said, it can be relatively cheap these days to obtain copies of porn flicks to preview before purchase. Why not take advantage of it? I've previewed two JJV videos this year, was impressed by one, let down by the other, and a few days later felt pretty good about the money I had spent. But that's me. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have a bigger budget for porn, spend that amount per month almost regardless of what comes out, and feel pretty good about it too. That's not for me to judge. I only know that inspiration to try something new sometimes only comes when there are no other options left, and using my hard earned cash to fund more garbage is not something I'm personally willing to do.
Personally I find it very disturbing and a huge turnoff when I feel that the girl is in physical pain, or is getting sick performing a sexual act. Abusive porn is about on the same line as rape porn, which is just sick IMO. I classify this "niche" right up there with beastiality. But this is just my opinion.
there is a shoot of Cody Lane being aggressively gang fucked by 5 maniac men. They slap her, thrash her around, spank her, verbally abuse her and drill all her holes with no consideration and lube. It some real hot shit to watch..not sure which site it came off I think 18yearsold.com was the one but googling cody lane gangbang will reveal a bunch of tube sites. Edited by - editorbb on 8/19/2010 11:13:13 PM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 12:04AM
^The only gangbang scene that I know of with Cody Lane and five men was the scene she did for Gangbang Auditions #20(?). And they did use lube in that scene. The BTS showed them preparing for it. I agree that it's a good scene. I miss Cody.Actually, this is a good thread. It addresses an issue regarding porn that some people here seem too afraid to touch either because they dislike this type of porn or, if they do like it, they're afraid to admit it because they'll be bashed. Regardless of the true objective of the OP, the fact that he says he "confesses" to liking this type of porn implies that enjoying it is somehow something to be ashamed of. It isn't. Some people here apparently feel that sexual fantasies have to be safe, and that any fantasy or sexual desire that is not socially 'polite' is therefore "sociopathic." As I've said repeatedly, this argument sounds no different than the ones coming from those who oppose porn altogether. It would be great if those who enjoy and defend this niche of porn, or any other niche, were as outspoken as those who oppose it.Other than going by the reasonable belief that the woman wouldn't be doing it if she didn't want to, how would we be able to tell the difference? Edited by - realtip on 8/20/2010 12:11:23 AM
^When I as a member of videobox, I came across a Cody Lane scene that made quite a stir there..."Teen Line: The Blue Room" (NOT a tube ; legit site) b/c of how hard it was. I never did watch it, but there are now over 200+ comments on it.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 3:53AM
^There is also another thread on it here. I did see the scene, and failed to see what the big deal was. Most of the reactions against it were completely overexaggerated. I think the controversy might have been part of the reason that the DVD was never released, along with the fact that the company went out of business, even though individual scenes did pop up on the Internet.
The difference for me was this:Since most viewers presumably weren't there during the making of the scene, it's pretty much impossible to know for sure. However, I believe it's the attitude of NOT CARING whether she knew or not that rubs some people the wrong way. I'm actually a massive fan of rough, consensual sex. If I knew however, that some acts were not agreed upon prior to shooting, and ANY kind of distress was experienced by the performer because of that, I would be a very angry, flaccid customer indeed.
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heh8me Deactivated User
47 Posts 7/10
Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 4:25AM
I like it. I agree with your last paragraph. I find it weird people don't seem to judge people who watch football for the hits,MMA/boxing for the blood or Nascar for the crash.
I really enjoyed my membership to "MilfHumiliation.com" @ Porn Pros. I felt the mix of domination and restraint along with the sex was just right. I was able to tell Nikki Sexx that I loved her scene with them thanks to ADT. But her response set me back a bit. They used a suction device on her pussy for a long time. When they removed it he pussy had swollen up bigtime. I thought it looked hot and the guy pounded it into tomorow. And in her interveiw after the shoot she said how much fun it was. But she said she couldnt work for about a week after because the device and swelling had rendered her pussy unusable. So I have that to think about when I watch that scene.
And you wouldn't wonder why the woman in the scene apparently wasn't as angry about it as you are? I gotta tell you. I turn the TV on and I see somebody get the shit kicked out of them and then they just get up, dust themselves off and go home, I'm thinking they must not have minded that much even if it looked unpleasant. I don't know how many times I've had to argue this point with people on this board and nobody has ever responded with a rational response. If they don't care, why should I? How much simpler can a question get? How much simpler can a plain statement get? People are supposed to take care of themselves. I can't try and guess about this shit five years later. If they have problems with whatever happened, they should take it up with the local police department. It's just that goddamned simple. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/20/2010 10:30:24 AM
To each their own I guess, but personally I never saw the attraction of abusive porn. For myself, I like the women in a scene to enjoy what they're doing. Seeing them writhe in pleasure, getting off, makes me feel like they're there for more than just a paycheck. Plus I just don't like seeing women get slapped around. If you must slap a woman, do it with your cock. At least that has some sex appeal. But just straight up hitting a woman... to me that's not how a man should act. In RL or in porn. I know some women actually do like this sort of treatment, and more power to them if thats their thing. I just can't watch it though. I also can't help but wonder if there's a self hate thing going on there. No judgements against those who enjoy it. Just my opinion...
It really isn't that simple. Would the police take any complaint from a porn actress seriously? And if it went to court the defendants would have a field day. Ive had the shit kicked out of me -badly- i just wanted to forget it,luckily the police didnt,and the fuckers got sent down,but if it were up to me i would have left it. This wasn't because i didn't care (it deeply affected me)but when something shitty happens to you, you try and forget about it as quickly as possible. You say people are supposed to take care of themselves,but in any kind of society people are meant to look out for each other. You shouldn't be asking "if they dont care, why should i?" you should be asking yourself "why dont i care?"
I have deep respect for all women, but i like to see on screen domination and rough stuff and facefucking. Two contrasting ideas but if there's a woman who know what she's doing and there's no real violence for me is just acting and fantasy also if the scene is very rough, like the trina michaels scene at facial abuse. There's no great difference for me between a scene with Melissa Lauren and for example the abusive scene with Monica Bellucci in irreversible.
I’ll probably get crucified for saying this, but whatever, I’ll say it anyway. There is a giant difference between rough/kinky sex in porn and the stuff where you can straight up tell the girl is upset/in pain/miserable. I don’t go to work to get treated like shit and have the people I’m working with abuse me or put me in great amounts of pain. I’m a 90lb girl that’s rather small in the lady parts area, and if my options are basically don’t shoot or go to work and have a high likelihood that I’d be in some kind of pain…I just don’t shoot. It’s why I turn down 99% of the B/G work that is offered to me, I’m not going to go do something I know is going to hurt. I get asked over and over why I won’t do most B/G scenes, and that’s why. The guys I will still work with have never been rough or mean to me. They’ve even *gasp* asked if I was ok and comfortable while we were shooting instead of trying to make me cry or seeing how far they could push me before I was wincing in pain. The B/G scenes I did last year were fun and I had a good time filming them. Were there a ton of them, no…but that’s because I won’t work at all if it’s going to be a crappy situation. When you don’t see the line between fantasy and actual pain/abuse, that’s probably not a positive thing. To each his own, I guess, just don’t be surprised or let down when certain girls won’t shoot anymore or drastically reduce the amount of content they’ll be in simply because they only want to go to work and shoot if it’s actually fun/a good experience.
Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 10:09PM
