I Confess, I Like Watching Women Get "Abused"... (page 3)

Author	Post
gingerlee Member 301 Posts 5/06	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:12PM ^^^As weird as it sounds, it’s not even about integrity. It’s just that I can’t walk on a set knowing it’s going to be uncomfortable or painful. Like, is it really that awful if I enjoy myself? Is it impossible to get a hard on unless I’m crying? Is a girl being miserable the only thing that makes a scene worthy of somebody’s spank bank? I’d rather do 10 happy scenes than 50 miserable scenes. That’s just me though. I’m not talking about the girls that are having rough/kinky sex, I’m talking about the scenes where you can tell the girl is hurting but they keep going anyway. If I’m not going to do that in real life, I sure as fuck am not going to do it in porn. Don’t get me wrong-I like money, and I like shooting, but if it’s not something I would do in my personal life I’m not doing it on camera…even if it is what has become the ‘norm’ somewhere along the way. [Link]
screwcap Deactivated User I'm walkin' here........ 1032 Posts 6/10	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:30PM women and abuse? my god those that perp abuse on women receive my response [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:32PM Bigscotsman27 wrote: You shouldn't be asking "if they dont care, why should i?" you should be asking yourself "why dont i care?" Click to expand Who are you to tell me what I should be thinking? [Link]
HeyNow Oblivious Gold Star Hey! 5965 Posts 1/03	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:41PM gingerlee wrote: It’s why I turn down 99% of the B/G work that is offered to me, I’m not going to go do something I know is going to hurt. I get asked over and over why I won’t do most B/G scenes, and that’s why. The guys I will still work with have never been rough or mean to me. They’ve even gasp asked if I was ok and comfortable while we were shooting Click to expand Damn! There has GOT to be a way to get you matched up with the right guys. No one is going to crucify you for being honest around here. Well, hardly anyhow. You spoke the truth and that's that! [Link]

RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:56PM gingerlee wrote: ^^^As weird as it sounds, it’s not even about integrity. It’s just that I can’t walk on a set knowing it’s going to be uncomfortable or painful. Like, is it really that awful if I enjoy myself? Is it impossible to get a hard on unless I’m crying? Is a girl being miserable the only thing that makes a scene worthy of somebody’s spank bank? Click to expand For some people, maybe it is. The thing is that you have the power. You don't have to do scenes you're not comfortable with and if someone tricks you into it, you should take legal action immediately. My posts in this thread were only in regards to women who either know what they're getting into or even if they are sometimes tricked or manipulated into doing things they didn't want to do, they didn't take corrective measures to try and make sure it doesn't happen to other girls. They just took the abuse and went on with their lives. I can feel bad for them but I really can't blame anyone else if they didn't fight back in any way, shape or form. I’d rather do 10 happy scenes than 50 miserable scenes. That’s just me though. Click to expand And that's completely fine. If that's what you're about, you shouldn't do anything else. I know the guy who started this thread would say something else but it isn't his decision. The OP was just expressing himself. It may be offensive but again, you're in control on a porn set. The director/partner shouldn't be doing anything you didn't agree to and if he does, you shouldn't let him get away with it. The thing is that these people can sit here all day and talk about how they get off on it but that's beside the point. Why is it even happening and how does it keep happening? [Link]
gingerlee Member 301 Posts 5/06	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 9:44PM ^^^^Girls either don't know what to do if something goes horribly wrong, or they feel like nobody is going to give a shit if they complain about it...so they put up with it and then hope it won't happen anymore. They don't want to piss off their agent/the director/the company/whoever else they feel will be pissed off. Let's be real, America has a major virgin-whore complex going on, and if a girl reports that something happened to her in a strip club/on a porn set/BDSM dungeon/somewhere else seeped in sex, she's going to get blamed for it happening in the first place. She's going to be the girl that rocked the boat, and if you already know most people in the justice system write off sex workers as subhuman, you don't really want to be that girl. Shame and the overwhelming belief that nobody will care are big motivators of silence. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that just repeats itself over and over. It happens in the ‘real world’ too. It's not a situation exclusive to sex workers, there's just an extra stigma attached for those in the sex industry. Unless women in general start believing they’re not going to experience the stereotypical response and that actually begins happening, it’ll stay the same way it has been all these years. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:00PM ^ Thank you. [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:26PM Can I get an "AMEN!" [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:54PM You know you got one from me, and I ain't even religious. [Link]
Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 11:05PM Perverted_Jewish_Guy wrote: I love seeing girls getting fucked roughly and abused. I honestly don't care if people get appalled by it. I just laugh at them. More abusive porn needs to be released. Click to expand My, this sounds familiar. [Link]
TwoHeadedBoy Member I will take you and leave you alone 46 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 11:34PM gingerlee wrote: I’m not talking about the girls that are having rough/kinky sex, I’m talking about the scenes where you can tell the girl is hurting but they keep going anyway. Click to expand This is perhaps the only slightly gray issue I have when watching rough/kinky sex scenes. With consent between all parties out of the way, can I still enjoy a scene if I can tell the girl is in obvious discomfort? What about scenes where she seems to be ENDURING the sex rather than enjoying it? There's a fine line there I think, and my viewing of very rough gonzo circus style scenes over the years has so far led me to better understand where my own comfort rating stands. For instance, the first time I started to question how I felt about this shit was watching a scene years ago with Melissa Lauren in Service Animals 18. They cover her face with a plastic bag, tear a hole in it, fuck her face to oblivion, then proceed to DP the fuck out of her until dropping their loads all over her. I was in rapture. Melissa not only took the beating they were giving her, but she somehow managed to come out on top in the end, goading them, smirking at their attempts to fuck her silly, WILLING them on to fuck her harder and harder. This is perhaps my favourite type of scene, and I've only been witness to it on few occasions. It's the type of scene I have no real issues with morally. The next scene that hit my radar was of Julie Silver in Cum In My Ass Not In My Mouth 2. Again, rough as guts, not quite so heavy with the themes, but still plenty of hard DP, DAP and a double anal cream-pie to boot. Julie seemingly ENDURED the scene for the most part. I did sense a bit of slight discomfort at one point, but overall she seemed to pull through without too many issues. I'm OK with scenes like this. She knows what she's in for, takes it, and subsequently goes on to make a fuck load more of these type of scenes. Conscious clear. I'm a little bit hesitant to bring up the last scene because she's a current star, and I'd rather not do her image on the porn circuit any damage by sharing my own personal views. Regardless, this was a standard anal/DP/cream pie type deal. I must give props to the guys here because they took it real easy on her, as much as they possibly could without stopping the scene, but even that couldn't hide the fact that she seemed like she wanted to be anywhere but where she was at that moment. Pain, discomfort and maybe even regret were stitched all over her face. The only reason I still own the movie is because the other 4 scenes are rockin. So that's where the line for me is drawn. Who knows whether its justified, moral or otherwise. I think we each have to make our own choices, live with and learn through them. Sex is meant to be fun. I sincerely hope that any girls looking to get in the business are as sensible as you about the choices they make. PS. Apologies for the long ass post. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 1:04AM gingerlee wrote: ^^^^Girls either don't know what to do if something goes horribly wrong, or they feel like nobody is going to give a shit if they complain about it Click to expand This thread and a bunch of others on ADT proves that's just not so. If no one cares, who are all these people complaining about what they characterize as abusive scenes? ...so they put up with it and then hope it won't happen anymore. Click to expand How does that work? When was the last time you put up with something that kept happening over and over in the hopes that it wouldn't happen anymore and it actually stopped happening? Here is a recent revelation that took me a long time (Over 30 years but I'm really slow on these things). In my experience, isolated incidents are really quite rare. If you see something happen once, it'll probably eventually happen again. And the more often it happens, the more likely it is to keep happening until you do something that makes it stop. It might take a second, an hour, a day, a week or a decade but the clock starts ticking the instant it happens. Repetition is the very essence of time. I know that people outside the porn business make this mistake all the time too. The truth of the matter is that it is a critical error regardless of the circumstances and it won't go away if you ignore it. Almost nothing ever does. The opposite is usually the case. The more you ignore something that has been caused mainly by having been ignored for too long by too many people in the first place, the worse it tends to get. I'm keenly aware of this because I have anxiety issues and have spent my life biting my nails as I watch things accumulate and waiting for simple neglect to evolve into a twisted, chaotic disaster. I can't tie my shoes right but I've rarely been wrong in predicting a disaster of some sort when people perpetually try to just ignore something and hope it'll go away. They don't want to piss off their agent/the director/the company/whoever else they feel will be pissed off. Click to expand I'm thinking there are plenty of people in the business who would completely understand. Any agent/director/company that would hold it against you for making a legitimate complaint about something this serious is not worth working for in the first place. There is no amount of money that's worth that kind of a compromise if it's really that important in the first place. Or at least if there is, it sure isn't the paltry wages these people pay when you take the length of the average porn career into account. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/21/2010 2:49:05 AM [Link]
gingerlee Member 301 Posts 5/06	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 3:28AM ^^It's complicated. Fucked up, but complicated. Different people react different ways to the exact same chain of events. Traumatic or fucked up circumstances, on a porn set or elsewhere, are no different. We can all say what we ‘think’ we’d do if we were put in a situation, but until it’s happening, nobody really knows until it’s there in their faces. Sometimes having to admit you weren’t in control, (or that you froze or didn’t fight back or walk off or whatever else people say they’d do) is far more frightening that trying to pretend it didn’t happen. If statistically, in the general public, something like 60% of sexual assault is never reported, and of those that are, only about 50% of those result in arrest, and then of those only 80% prosecute, 58% of those get a conviction, and something like 69% result in jail time. If those are the stats for ones that are actually reported for ‘regular’ people, the odds of something working out any better for somebody in the sex industry are probably quite a bit lower. I’m in the middle of a giant legal battle that has nothing at all to do with the fact that I’ve done porn or stripped, but you know what the first question the defense attorney asks me is about? Yeah, porn and stripping. Even when I do all the stuff that we are told to do when it comes to asking for help….the only thing that matters in the courtroom is that the judge/jury/whoever hears ‘porn’ ‘stripper’ ‘sex’ or some other sensationalist buzzword first, everything else kinda gets tuned out after that. When that’s the chain of events for a case that isn’t about something messed up happening at a shoot or on a set, I totally understand why girls don’t say anything. Public outcry and having people online or something like that express that they aren’t cool with certain activities taking place falls flat rather quickly when you’re sitting in a police station or courtroom being grilled all by yourself. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 4:18AM gingerlee wrote: ^^It's complicated. Fucked up, but complicated. Different people react different ways to the exact same chain of events. Traumatic or fucked up circumstances, on a porn set or elsewhere, are no different. We can all say what we ‘think’ we’d do if we were put in a situation, but until it’s happening, nobody really knows until it’s there in their faces. Sometimes having to admit you weren’t in control, (or that you froze or didn’t fight back or walk off or whatever else people say they’d do) is far more frightening that trying to pretend it didn’t happen. Click to expand Yes. This makes sense but it's still better to try to do something than nothing at all. You lose nothing even if they get away with it. And regardless of the outcome, they might think twice before doing it again. It can't be any more uncomfortable and unpleasant than the original experience was to begin with. Or to put it another way, after getting hit by a bus, being stung by a bee is a relatively minor event (unless you're allergic, I guess). I can say that if it were me, I would want to just let it slide because I don't like to make waves any more than the next person but if it was a big deal to me, I'd push it because I know if you let people push you around they'll never stop. You have to stand up to bullies even if you get clobbered. If statistically, in the general public, something like 60% of sexual assault is never reported Click to expand How do we know it happened if it's never reported, investigated or proved? It's awfully easy for someone to say they were assaulted 20 years ago if they never had to prove it and any actual evidence there might have been is long gone. They can throw numbers out there and say "Hey. You know 60% of rapes are never reported?" And to that, I say "How do you know?". It's like saying that half of all murders go undetected. Public outcry and having people online or something like that express that they aren’t cool with certain activities taking place falls flat rather quickly when you’re sitting in a police station or courtroom being grilled all by yourself. Click to expand Frankly, I think sometimes women lose sight of how much power they actually have in this area. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/21/2010 4:23:47 AM [Link]

BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 4:30AM Something to consider: it recently came to light that in the infamous Pickton case in Canada, there was an earlier incident in 1997 where Pickton picked up a prostitute, handcuffed her and repeatedly stabbed her. She escaped and reported him but the Crown didn't press charges because the victim 'wasn't credible.' Pickton murdered at least 20+ women, pretty much all of them sex workers. Now if the police won't believe a sex worker who has been repeatedly stabbed by a man with a history of violence and assault, what chance do you think a porn performer has pressing charges against an abusive producer? [Link]
purgatori Deactivated User 202 Posts 6/10	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 5:46AM Newsflash: the majority of the porn industry caters to mainstream male sexuality, which is inextricably bound up with aggression/sadism, and the desire to dominate, control and humiliate -- especially in cultures where misogyny remains a vital force. And yes, if you get off on this sort of thing (and not just in its most extreme forms), you are, at the very least, a misogynist. [Link]
slave_trader New Member Really into submissive-porn.com 3 Posts 8/10	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:10AM Sorry, I don't feel like a misogynist when I enjoy humiliation and abuse, provided: * it is limited to sexual behaviour (not political, social, economic - everyday life) * it is consensual, i.e. the woman enjoys her role in that play Besides there's abuse the other way around as well. Quite a lot of dominatrix's around... [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:06PM BlackSix wrote: Something to consider: it recently came to light that in the infamous Pickton case in Canada, there was an earlier incident in 1997 where Pickton picked up a prostitute, handcuffed her and repeatedly stabbed her. She escaped and reported him but the Crown didn't press charges because the victim 'wasn't credible.' Pickton murdered at least 20+ women, pretty much all of them sex workers. Click to expand Similar to what happened here in Cleveland with Anthony Sowell. Even worse, he was a convicted sex offender when this woman reported her attack and she still wasn't credible enough. [Link]
purgatori Deactivated User 202 Posts 6/10	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:19PM slave_trader wrote: Sorry, I don't feel like a misogynist when I enjoy humiliation and abuse, provided: * it is limited to sexual behaviour (not political, social, economic - everyday life) * it is consensual, i.e. the woman enjoys her role in that play Besides there's abuse the other way around as well. Quite a lot of dominatrix's around... Click to expand Well, I would submit that how one 'feels' about such things might be less revealing than a deeply considered and honest answer to a question such as, 'why do I find the spectacle of a women being abused arousing?' [Link]
leatherface Senior Member 1258 Posts 7/07	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:43PM purgatori wrote: slave_trader wrote: Sorry, I don't feel like a misogynist when I enjoy humiliation and abuse, provided: * it is limited to sexual behaviour (not political, social, economic - everyday life) * it is consensual, i.e. the woman enjoys her role in that play Besides there's abuse the other way around as well. Quite a lot of dominatrix's around... Click to expand Well, I would submit that how one 'feels' about such things might be less revealing than a deeply considered and honest answer to a question such as, 'why do I find the spectacle of a women being abused arousing?' Click to expand because there's the aspect of domination and control, but in a contest where at least in theory there's no a real abuse and all is consensual. A fantasy. I don't think that everybody who enjoy to see rough porn is a mysoginist. [Link]
gingerlee Member 301 Posts 5/06	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:46PM RandomPrecision wrote: Yes. This makes sense but it's still better to try to do something than nothing at all. You lose nothing even if they get away with it. And regardless of the outcome, they might think twice before doing it again. It can't be any more uncomfortable and unpleasant than the original experience was to begin with. Or to put it another way, after getting hit by a bus, being stung by a bee is a relatively minor event (unless you're allergic, I guess). I can say that if it were me, I would want to just let it slide because I don't like to make waves any more than the next person but if it was a big deal to me, I'd push it because I know if you let people push you around they'll never stop. You have to stand up to bullies even if you get clobbered. Click to expand Know what 'pushing the issue' got me? I sit on a witness stand, over and over, having to tell the same story in front of different people, and I get to watch them slowly shift as soon as they hear certain words about me. I deal with a district attorney, an advocate, the entire police department, the FBI, and sit in court for hours on end....and the only thing that happens to the person that has tried to KILL me more than once is a slap on the wrist. He walks out of court, goes on his merry way, and then starts doing what he's been doing for more than a year all over again. I have to tell what happened to a bunch of people that don't give a shit simply because I'm a sex worker and every single time I feel shittier about myself because if I was say, a teacher, it'd play out differently. It is humiliating on more levels that you could think. How do we know it happened if it's never reported, investigated or proved? It's awfully easy for someone to say they were assaulted 20 years ago if they never had to prove it and any actual evidence there might have been is long gone. They can throw numbers out there and say "Hey. You know 60% of rapes are never reported?" And to that, I say "How do you know?". It's like saying that half of all murders go undetected. Click to expand People report it to crisis lines, go to the ER, go to domestic violence units, or sexual assault units and ask for help, but don't report it to the police. Some wait for years to do it for a multitude of reasons. It's a psychological thing. Actual cases of 'false rape' reports are very, very rare. Frankly, I think sometimes women lose sight of how much power they actually have in this area. Click to expand Sex workers don't get the supposed power, at least not in this country. Every single case of sexual assault I know of that has involved a sex worker of some kind was written off, treated like it was on the bottom of the list of priorities, and if the girl pushed it she was chastised for it. I get the displeasure of watching court proceedings every 2 weeks with cases where ‘normal’ women have been beaten, abused, stalked, sexually assaulted, nearly murdered, and sometimes still have the marks to prove it. The first thing brought up is her sexuality and what she may or may not have done to provoke it. When, as a sex worker, I’ve had to come to accept that I’m eventually going to be murdered because nobody is going to help me as long as I’m still alive, even when I ask for help over and over…something is wrong. All the fighting and paperwork and court dates I’ve been going to these past few months aren’t going to help me while I’m still alive, they’re going to make the murder conviction easier. (Those aren’t my words, those were said to me by both the police and the DA.) Cleaning up dead bodies and proving a murder is way more cut and dry and proving abuse/sexual assault/stalking/etc. That part isn't exculsive to sex workers, though. [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 3:30PM gingerlee wrote: Know what 'pushing the issue' got me? I sit on a witness stand, over and over, having to tell the same story in front of different people, and I get to watch them slowly shift as soon as they hear certain words about me. I deal with a district attorney, an advocate, the entire police department, the FBI, and sit in court for hours on end....and the only thing that happens to the person that has tried to KILL me more than once is a slap on the wrist. He walks out of court, goes on his merry way, and then starts doing what he's been doing for more than a year all over again. I have to tell what happened to a bunch of people that don't give a shit simply because I'm a sex worker and every single time I feel shittier about myself because if I was say, a teacher, it'd play out differently. It is humiliating on more levels that you could think. Click to expand First - I'm sorry. I went through a similar thing, although for me it was in court with my daughter. She was assaulted when she was 14, and I did what any decent parent does, pressed charges against the 23 yr old who seemed to think that it was perfectly acceptable to seduce an undeveloped child, get her drunk and high, and do whatever he wanted with her. The first thing they did was grill me over MY sexual practices, as if that was relevant to what happened to my daughter. Then, over and over, again, as if it were relevant, I got to hear how my daughter apparently deserved to be assaulted because her mother was a whore. Of course, this is all in court, in front of my child. Weeee... [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 3:53PM Thank you, Ginger Lee! * * * Random Precision -- I don't know what you've got invested in your position, exactly, but it seems to be preventing you from giving enough credit to what Ginger is saying. Your point of view appears to spring out of some very theoretical notions about human behavior as well as a concern that you're somehow in danger of being victimized -- rather than from lived experience. Since you're normally a reasonable guy, I'm surprised. ------------- Edited by - bob on 8/21/2010 7:12:30 PM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:21PM Kimi Lixx wrote: I went through a similar thing, although for me it was in court with my daughter. She was assaulted when she was 14, and I did what any decent parent does, pressed charges against the 23 yr old who seemed to think that it was perfectly acceptable to seduce an undeveloped child, get her drunk and high, and do whatever he wanted with her. The first thing they did was grill me over MY sexual practices, as if that was relevant to what happened to my daughter. Then, over and over, again, as if it were relevant, I got to hear how my daughter apparently deserved to be assaulted because her mother was a whore. Of course, this is all in court, in front of my child. Weeee... Click to expand I know neither of you are looking for this, but I'm sorry to hear your stories Kimi and Ginger. Not surprised, unfortunately, but sorry. [Link]

BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:29PM Kimi Lixx wrote: Similar to what happened here in Cleveland with Anthony Sowell. Even worse, he was a convicted sex offender when this woman reported her attack and she still wasn't credible enough. Click to expand That case is equally ridiculous, with the detectives finding blood at the scene you wonder how they figured the woman 'wasn't credible.' I notice that one of the detectives who specialized in dealing with sex workers and related cases said that at first the response from the police was appropriate. That's probably what would help, more units with police specifically trained to work these kind of cases. [Link]
THICK_LOVA54 Senior Member Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade. 1441 Posts 5/10	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:32PM ^^That's a shame, sorry to hear that. Thats the system, they use what they can when they can. If they were in a position to use your career choice to their advantage they would have done it. Its not about right and wrong and thats the problem with the system. Crimson Rain...What A Sight [Link]
gingerlee Member 301 Posts 5/06	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:41PM BlackSix wrote: I know neither of you are looking for this, but I'm sorry to hear your stories Kimi and Ginger. Not surprised, unfortunately, but sorry. Click to expand Thank you. I know I probably sound bitter and pissed off, but that's probably because I am. Every time a person asks 'Why didn't you say something sooner?' I want to bang my head on a wall. The only thing pressing the issue and not trying to walk away and 'move on with my life' has done has made the entire situation worse. It gets worse every single day, and every day I get reminded that if I wasn't a sex worker, I may get taken a bit more seriously. Most of the 'regular' chicks I get to sit with and listen to don't actually get much help either, but whatever. I just get the awesome knowledge that somebody wants me dead, has attempted to kill more than once, and not a single person in the 'justice' system gives a shit until I'm actually dead, because I'm a sex worker. It's a warm fuzzy kind of feeling....or not. [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 10:15PM THICK_LOVA54 wrote: ^^That's a shame, sorry to hear that. Thats the system, they use what they can when they can. If they were in a position to use your career choice to their advantage they would have done it. Click to expand With this the legal system itself seems like a pretty small part of the problem. In a world that's a bit saner about sex this just wouldn't make any sense at all. It'd be like constantly bringing up someone's irrelevant office job to discredit them, or commenting on the food they eat to attack their credibility. If people didn't have such a fucked up view of sex and sex workers then there'd be no issue there for them to use. It's a horrible thought that anyone could look at what Kimi and Ginger have experienced, or look at the behaviour of the police and courts in many different cases involving sex workers, and consider that situation to be acceptable. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 10:19PM Wow, I'm sorry to hear Kimi and Ginger's tales. Unfortunately, not all humans can be socialized, and you can't tell an egoist asshole just by looking at him. It adds insult to injury that our society does so little to protect women abused by these animals, but our justice system, as the name implies, is designed to balance the scales, not to prevent them from being tipped out of balance in the first place. I wish you the best Ginger, but I'm afraid wishes are worth very little at this point. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:15PM gingerlee wrote: The only thing pressing the issue and not trying to walk away and 'move on with my life' has done has made the entire situation worse. It gets worse every single day, and every day I get reminded that if I wasn't a sex worker, I may get taken a bit more seriously. Click to expand This is sad and frightening. Seriously -- why don't you relocate? [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:31PM BlackSix wrote: Something to consider: it recently came to light that in the infamous Pickton case in Canada, there was an earlier incident in 1997 where Pickton picked up a prostitute, handcuffed her and repeatedly stabbed her. She escaped and reported him but the Crown didn't press charges because the victim 'wasn't credible.' Pickton murdered at least 20+ women, pretty much all of them sex workers. Click to expand Did they say the victim wasn't credible because she was a sex worker or was there some other reason for it? Or did they give a reason? The story doesn't say and I've never heard anything about this case so I wouldn't know. I really can't imagine that they would just let something like that go just because she was a sex worker. Even if they had nothing but contempt for her, they couldn't know the guy wasn't going to murder somebody's kid or something a week later. I think there has to be more to it. Maybe I'm wrong but it just sounds fishy. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/21/2010 11:34:14 PM [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:44PM RandomPrecision wrote: Did they say the victim wasn't credible because she was a sex worker or was there some other reason for it? Or did they give a reason? The story doesn't say and I've never heard anything about this case so I wouldn't know. I really can't imagine that they would just let something like that go just because she was a sex worker. Click to expand Why can't you imagine it? (Four years of your posts consistently evidence your distrust of people in positions of power and authority.) [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 1:51AM RandomPrecision wrote: Did they say the victim wasn't credible because she was a sex worker or was there some other reason for it? Click to expand There are so many clear examples of this that I don't really understand why you're sceptical. Of course the police aren't going to state outright that they didn't give a shit about sex workers being assaulted or murdered, but it's pretty obvious that those cases are treated very differently. It's telling how many "successful" serial killers -- especially the ones who got away with it for years -- targeted sex workers. From what I've read, it's not so long ago that certain police forces in America unapologetically labelled cases involving sex workers with NHI (no human involved), and deliberately made them a low priority for investigation. Back during the Yorkshire Ripper case in the UK, the police were described as "apathetic about the murder of prostitutes", and admitted that they started taking the case more seriously when Sutcliffe began targeting "innocent girls". The first non-sex worker to be murdered certainly marked a big change in the way the case was treated by the press. The media still makes a pretty clear distinction, often acting as if sex workers aren't real victims. A few years back, when there were five murders in Ipswich, I remember tabloids complaining about the deaths being taken too seriously. Britain's second biggest selling paper The Daily Mail had an article calling the victims 'no great loss' and stating that for 'prostitutes death by strangulation is an occupational hazard'. For a recent US example, how about this judge stating that the gang rape of an escort at gunpoint should be considered 'theft of services'? Even without the actual cases, you just have to look at the shitty attitude that so many people have towards sex workers; it doesn't take much imagination to see how that attitude could influence the way they're treated. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 3:11AM Bob wrote: Why can't you imagine it? (Four years of your posts consistently evidence your distrust of people in positions of power and authority.) Click to expand Something just doesn't pass the smell test is all. Isn't it funny how the system works just fine when it wants to? I just tend to wonder why people drag their feet in certain cases when we've seen them doing their job flawlessly (Or at least conscientiously) on other occasions. I think there has to be more to it than them just having a low opinion of sex workers. They probably have a low opinion of a lot of the victims who come through their doors. Why are sex workers seemingly singled out? [Link]

RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 3:46AM Dave_K99 wrote: The media still makes a pretty clear distinction, often acting as if sex workers aren't real victims. Click to expand The media always has an agenda. They're largely responsible for the way people think of sex workers in the first place. The question is - What exactly is their agenda? What angle are they working by pretending not to give a shit about things they obviously are keenly interested in? It can certainly be said that profit is a big part of what motivates the media but the western media is much more than just a money machine and this is obvious to anyone who has spent any amount of time really paying attention to what is being said in the media Even without the actual cases, you just have to look at the shitty attitude that so many people have towards sex workers; it doesn't take much imagination to see how that attitude could influence the way they're treated. Click to expand I agree. I just think that most of the people who have that attitude have it because they've got cabbage in their heads and they're easily influenced by people who tell them what they're supposed to think. I see it all the time. It isn't the work they do that gives people this attitude. It's the diet of intellectual slop that most people are consuming that drills these things into their heads. It's not normal for a man to think a woman who likes sex is a lower life form and yet that's exactly what millions of men believe. How does this happen unless that message is being deliberately drilled into them? And it's not just conservatives who are responsible for this. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 6:13AM RandomPrecision wrote: Why are sex workers seemingly singled out? Click to expand Because there is rarely anything besides the testimony of the victim to distinguish intent, because they know that the jury will probably have a low opinion of the sex worker by virtue of her profession, and because they know the defense will beat up their witness, metaphorically speaking. Furthermore, if the sex worker's trade is not legal to begin with then the cops have no sympathy for her. How many times have you heard, 'You shouldn't have been doing that to begin with'? [typos] Edited by - hardware on 8/22/2010 6:17:14 AM [Link]
slave_trader New Member Really into submissive-porn.com 3 Posts 8/10	Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 9:29AM purgatori wrote: slave_trader wrote: Sorry, I don't feel like a misogynist when I enjoy humiliation and abuse, provided: * it is limited to sexual behaviour (not political, social, economic - everyday life) * it is consensual, i.e. the woman enjoys her role in that play Besides there's abuse the other way around as well. Quite a lot of dominatrix's around... Click to expand Well, I would submit that how one 'feels' about such things might be less revealing than a deeply considered and honest answer to a question such as, 'why do I find the spectacle of a women being abused arousing?' Click to expand Please ask women why they find it arousing to dominate men. And: I not only do not feel like a misogynist; I AM no misogynist. In fact I adore women and have high respect of those who are capable of being submissive [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 5:24PM I'm just wondering how this thread turned from being about guys' tastes in porn to being about real-life crimes. I mentioned in an earlier post that some porn acts as if the audience is unable to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Are they right? Edited by - realtip on 8/22/2010 5:24:45 PM [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 12:14AM realtip wrote: I'm just wondering how this thread turned from being about guys' tastes in porn to being about real-life crimes. Snip Click to expand Deviation? [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 12:23AM As long as they are consenting adults and they get my dick hard I don't give a f**k. I never like Max Hardcore because he was a little obnoxious jerk. Buy I love Meatholes. That shit is genius!! [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 12:48AM Loraine wrote: Deviation? Click to expand I wanna see Loraine being deviant. [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 1:05AM Loraine wrote: realtip wrote: I'm just wondering how this thread turned from being about guys' tastes in porn to being about real-life crimes. Snip Click to expand Deviation? Click to expand What does statistics have to do with this? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 1:47AM realtip wrote: I'm just wondering how this thread turned from being about guys' tastes in porn to being about real-life crimes. I mentioned in an earlier post that some porn acts as if the audience is unable to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Are they right? Click to expand The thread went that way because there were the usual suspects questioning the idea that if a woman is abused without her consent that she wouldn't get a reasonable hearing from the police. [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:21AM A woman reporting that she was abused without her consent would definitely get a serious reaction from the police. A pornstar who performs a scene all the way through until the end without resistance or complaint, takes the money for it, and provides her signature rendering her consent, but then turns around and complains that she was the victim of a sex crime would not be taken seriously. Edited by - realtip on 8/23/2010 2:38:52 AM [Link]
CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User 225 Posts 9/08	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:50AM realtip wrote: A woman reporting that she was abused without her consent would definitely get a serious reaction from the police. A pornstar who performs a scene all the way through until the end without resistance or complaint, takes the money for it, and provides her signature rendering her consent, but then turns around and complains that she was the victim of a sex crime would not be taken seriously. Edited by - realtip on 8/23/2010 2:38:52 AM [/quot Totally agree! [Link]
CHI - BEAR 85 Deactivated User 225 Posts 9/08	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:53AM zambi wrote: As long as they are consenting adults and they get my dick hard I don't give a f**k. I never like Max Hardcore because he was a little obnoxious jerk. Buy I love Meatholes. That shit is genius!! Click to expand Same here, but I prefer Facial Abuse and herfirstgangbang.com [Link]
His Dudeness All Business Shut the fuck up, Donny!! 2793 Posts 4/10	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:59AM realtip: A woman reporting that she was abused without her consent would definitely get a serious reaction from the police. A pornstar who performs a scene all the way through until the end without resistance or complaint, takes the money for it, and provides her signature rendering her consent, but then turns around and complains that she was the victim of a sex crime would not be taken seriously. ^Amen to that! And yes Facial Abuse is grade A stuff. [Link]
bigbenlondon New Member 3 Posts 8/10	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 7:06AM BlackSix wrote: Something to consider: it recently came to light that in the infamous Pickton case in Canada, there was an earlier incident in 1997 where Pickton picked up a prostitute, handcuffed her and repeatedly stabbed her. She escaped and reported him but the Crown didn't press charges because the victim 'wasn't credible.' Pickton murdered at least 20+ women, pretty much all of them sex workers. Did they say the victim wasn't credible because she was a sex worker or was there some other reason for it? Or did they give a reason? The story doesn't say and I've never heard anything about this case so I wouldn't know. I really can't imagine that they would just let something like that go just because she was a sex worker. Even if they had nothing but contempt for her, they couldn't know the guy wasn't going to murder somebody's kid or something a week later. I think there has to be more to it. Maybe I'm wrong but it just sounds fishy. Pickton murdered prostitutes he picked up off of the street. Many of then native indian. Why? Because they are likely to be drug addicted, alchoholic, and uneducated, with a massive distrust of authority, and likely to have criminal records for drugs and/or prostitution, therefore unlikely to press charges, and even if they did would not be taken seriously or be easily discredited by the courts. Mental illness could also be an issue. Many would have broken contact with their families, so there would be no one to raise the alarm or make a missing person report when they disappear, for months or years if at all. All trails are cold by then. Pickton was a tax paying, land owning farmer. Imagine someone like this in court with someone who not only admits to being a sex worker, but has maybe spent time in jail, is addicted to alchohol or crack, has missed drug rehab meetings or not visited their parole officer. Women who sell sex on the street will often have a string of other problems, and this is why they are doing what they are doing. and if they are raped or stabbed and tell the police and the crown decides not to pursue the case....how will other sex workers respond to this kind of treatment? [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:48PM So let me see if I have this right - Most of the people who are upset about this seem to be blaming the people who watch and enjoy it. And yet, the problems that are coming up are - 1. The women involved either choose to do it or get tricked into doing it by unscrupulous directors/agents/whatevers 2. When it does involve someone being deliberately deceptive, the women either don't report it to the appropriate authorities for fear they won't be taken seriously or they try to report it and the legal system doesn't respond appropriately. How does the blame for any of this fall on the shoulders of someone who bought the movie/scene/whatever? I guess that's a rhetorical question because I know anyone with a good imagination can make something up. The problem is that the legal system doesn't respond properly when the making of the video may have involved a lack of consent. It's not your fault and it's not mine. I didn't make the system. I don't make the rules and I can't do anything about it when the system works selectively. It does this all the time independently of our support or consent. The people who make the rules will arrest you for driving drunk or selling weed or whatever it is but will elect not to do anything about a guy who beats a woman down on a porn set without her consent. What can we do about that? It's up to the people who make the rules and man the system to apply justice fairly and evenly. In the end, it tends to be easier to deal with a problem where it starts and in this case, it starts inside the industry. You can't blame the consumer for buying what the industry sells. Also, it seems like a good deal of the responsibility for this sort of thing happening in the first place tends to rest with bad agents. If an agent gets a reputation for doing this kind of thing, why doesn't the rest of the industry blacklist HIM instead of the girls who complain about him? How hard could that be? Or is it already done? And if it is, how do these people keep working? There have to be some good agents who would be nothing but pleased to pick up the slack left by the guys nobody wants around. Why on earth should a hot chick have to worry about being blacklisted in the porn business for complaining about someone who is ultimately bad for the business anyway? Why would the industry even want these guys around if they might be driving hot girls out of the business? If the industry is going to make this kind of content at all (Meaning the kind of content that involves anything rough or anything that could even accidentally be misinterpreted), it's going to have to make sure there is no doubt at all about consent. I'm not going to have people shaming me because I watched a rough sex video and it turns out the girl was tricked into it by some guy I've never heard of and I don't find out about it until 3 years later or something. It just shouldn't happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder if it was consensual. Don't blame people for buying something that is there. Blame the people who created it. Whether it's porn or something else, if it's a great product, you don't credit the customer. You credit the company that made it. If it's a bad (or even dangerous) product you take your beef to the company that put it on the shelf. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 3:10:06 PM [Link]
Bigscotsman27 Member 464 Posts 9/09	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 3:28PM RandomPrecision wrote: So let me see if I have this right - Most of the people who are upset about this seem to be blaming the people who watch and enjoy it. And yet, the problems that are coming up are - 1. The women involved either choose to do it or get tricked into doing it by unscrupulous directors/agents/whatevers 2. When it does involve someone being deliberately deceptive, the women either don't report it to the appropriate authorities for fear they won't be taken seriously or they try to report it and the legal system doesn't respond appropriately. How does the blame for any of this fall on the shoulders of someone who bought the movie/scene/whatever? I guess that's a rhetorical question because I know anyone with a good imagination can make something up. The problem is that the legal system doesn't respond properly when the making of the video may have involved a lack of consent. It's not your fault and it's not mine. I didn't make the system. I don't make the rules and I can't do anything about it when the system works selectively. It does this all the time independently of our support or consent. The people who make the rules will arrest you for driving drunk or selling weed or whatever it is but will elect not to do anything about a guy who beats a woman down on a porn set without her consent. What can we do about that? It's up to the people who make the rules and man the system to apply justice fairly and evenly. In the end, it tends to be easier to deal with a problem where it starts and in this case, it starts inside the industry. You can't blame the consumer for buying what the industry sells. Also, it seems like a good deal of the responsibility for this sort of thing happening in the first place tends to rest with bad agents. If an agent gets a reputation for doing this kind of thing, why doesn't the rest of the industry blacklist HIM instead of the girls who complain about him? How hard could that be? Or is it already done? And if it is, how do these people keep working? There have to be some good agents who would be nothing but pleased to pick up the slack left by the guys nobody wants around. Why on earth should a hot chick have to worry about being blacklisted in the porn business for complaining about someone who is ultimately bad for the business anyway? Why would the industry even want these guys around if they might be driving hot girls out of the business? If the industry is going to make this kind of content at all (Meaning the kind of content that involves anything rough or anything that could even accidentally be misinterpreted), it's going to have to make sure there is no doubt at all about consent. I'm not going to have people shaming me because I watched a rough sex video and it turns out the girl was tricked into it by some guy I've never heard of and I don't find out about it until 3 years later or something. It just shouldn't happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder if it was consensual. Don't blame people for buying something that is there. Blame the people who created it. Whether it's porn or something else, if it's a great product, you don't credit the customer. You credit the company that made it. If it's a bad (or even dangerous) product you take your beef to the company that put it on the shelf. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 3:10:06 PM Click to expand Who are you to tell us what to do or think? [Link]

Author

Post

gingerlee
Member

301 Posts
5/06

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:12PM

^^^As weird as it sounds, it’s not even about integrity. It’s just that I can’t walk on a set knowing it’s going to be uncomfortable or painful. Like, is it really that awful if I enjoy myself? Is it impossible to get a hard on unless I’m crying? Is a girl being miserable the only thing that makes a scene worthy of somebody’s spank bank? I’d rather do 10 happy scenes than 50 miserable scenes. That’s just me though.
I’m not talking about the girls that are having rough/kinky sex, I’m talking about the scenes where you can tell the girl is hurting but they keep going anyway. If I’m not going to do that in real life, I sure as fuck am not going to do it in porn. Don’t get me wrong-I like money, and I like shooting, but if it’s not something I would do in my personal life I’m not doing it on camera…even if it is what has become the ‘norm’ somewhere along the way.

[Link]

screwcap
Deactivated User

I'm walkin' here........
1032 Posts
6/10

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:30PM

women and abuse? my god
those that perp abuse on women
receive my response

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:32PM

Who are you to tell me what I should be thinking?

[Link]

HeyNow

Oblivious

Gold Star Hey!
5965 Posts
1/03

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:41PM

Damn! There has GOT to be a way to get you matched up with the right guys.
No one is going to crucify you for being honest around here. Well, hardly anyhow. You spoke the truth and that's that!

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 8:56PM

For some people, maybe it is. The thing is that you have the power. You don't have to do scenes you're not comfortable with and if someone tricks you into it, you should take legal action immediately.
My posts in this thread were only in regards to women who either know what they're getting into or even if they are sometimes tricked or manipulated into doing things they didn't want to do, they didn't take corrective measures to try and make sure it doesn't happen to other girls. They just took the abuse and went on with their lives. I can feel bad for them but I really can't blame anyone else if they didn't fight back in any way, shape or form.

And that's completely fine. If that's what you're about, you shouldn't do anything else. I know the guy who started this thread would say something else but it isn't his decision. The OP was just expressing himself. It may be offensive but again, you're in control on a porn set. The director/partner shouldn't be doing anything you didn't agree to and if he does, you shouldn't let him get away with it.
The thing is that these people can sit here all day and talk about how they get off on it but that's beside the point. Why is it even happening and how does it keep happening?

[Link]

gingerlee
Member

301 Posts
5/06

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 9:44PM

^^^^Girls either don't know what to do if something goes horribly wrong, or they feel like nobody is going to give a shit if they complain about it...so they put up with it and then hope it won't happen anymore. They don't want to piss off their agent/the director/the company/whoever else they feel will be pissed off. Let's be real, America has a major virgin-whore complex going on, and if a girl reports that something happened to her in a strip club/on a porn set/BDSM dungeon/somewhere else seeped in sex, she's going to get blamed for it happening in the first place. She's going to be the girl that rocked the boat, and if you already know most people in the justice system write off sex workers as subhuman, you don't really want to be that girl. Shame and the overwhelming belief that nobody will care are big motivators of silence.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy that just repeats itself over and over. It happens in the ‘real world’ too. It's not a situation exclusive to sex workers, there's just an extra stigma attached for those in the sex industry. Unless women in general start believing they’re not going to experience the stereotypical response *and* that actually begins happening, it’ll stay the same way it has been all these years.

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:00PM

Thank you.

[Link]

Kimi Lixx
Senior Member

2012 Posts
6/01

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:26PM

Can I get an "AMEN!"

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:54PM

You know you got one from me, and I ain't even religious.

[Link]

Harri Patel
Senior Member

#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele
5110 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 11:05PM

My, this sounds familiar.

[Link]

TwoHeadedBoy
Member

I will take you and leave you alone
46 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 11:34PM

This is perhaps the only slightly gray issue I have when watching rough/kinky sex scenes. With consent between all parties out of the way, can I still enjoy a scene if I can tell the girl is in obvious discomfort? What about scenes where she seems to be ENDURING the sex rather than enjoying it? There's a fine line there I think, and my viewing of very rough gonzo circus style scenes over the years has so far led me to better understand where my own comfort rating stands.
For instance, the first time I started to question how I felt about this shit was watching a scene years ago with Melissa Lauren in Service Animals 18. They cover her face with a plastic bag, tear a hole in it, fuck her face to oblivion, then proceed to DP the fuck out of her until dropping their loads all over her. I was in rapture. Melissa not only took the beating they were giving her, but she somehow managed to come out on top in the end, goading them, smirking at their attempts to fuck her silly, WILLING them on to fuck her harder and harder. This is perhaps my favourite type of scene, and I've only been witness to it on few occasions. It's the type of scene I have no real issues with morally.
The next scene that hit my radar was of Julie Silver in Cum In My Ass Not In My Mouth 2. Again, rough as guts, not quite so heavy with the themes, but still plenty of hard DP, DAP and a double anal cream-pie to boot. Julie seemingly ENDURED the scene for the most part. I did sense a bit of slight discomfort at one point, but overall she seemed to pull through without too many issues. I'm OK with scenes like this. She knows what she's in for, takes it, and subsequently goes on to make a fuck load more of these type of scenes. Conscious clear.
I'm a little bit hesitant to bring up the last scene because she's a current star, and I'd rather not do her image on the porn circuit any damage by sharing my own personal views. Regardless, this was a standard anal/DP/cream pie type deal. I must give props to the guys here because they took it real easy on her, as much as they possibly could without stopping the scene, but even that couldn't hide the fact that she seemed like she wanted to be anywhere but where she was at that moment. Pain, discomfort and maybe even regret were stitched all over her face. The only reason I still own the movie is because the other 4 scenes are rockin.
So that's where the line for me is drawn. Who knows whether its justified, moral or otherwise. I think we each have to make our own choices, live with and learn through them. Sex is meant to be fun. I sincerely hope that any girls looking to get in the business are as sensible as you about the choices they make.
PS. Apologies for the long ass post.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 1:04AM

This thread and a bunch of others on ADT proves that's just not so. If no one cares, who are all these people complaining about what they characterize as abusive scenes?

How does that work? When was the last time you put up with something that kept happening over and over in the hopes that it wouldn't happen anymore and it actually stopped happening? Here is a recent revelation that took me a long time (Over 30 years but I'm really slow on these things). In my experience, isolated incidents are really quite rare. If you see something happen once, it'll probably eventually happen again. And the more often it happens, the more likely it is to keep happening until you do something that makes it stop. It might take a second, an hour, a day, a week or a decade but the clock starts ticking the instant it happens. Repetition is the very essence of time.
I know that people outside the porn business make this mistake all the time too. The truth of the matter is that it is a critical error regardless of the circumstances and it won't go away if you ignore it. Almost nothing ever does. The opposite is usually the case. The more you ignore something that has been caused mainly by having been ignored for too long by too many people in the first place, the worse it tends to get. I'm keenly aware of this because I have anxiety issues and have spent my life biting my nails as I watch things accumulate and waiting for simple neglect to evolve into a twisted, chaotic disaster. I can't tie my shoes right but I've rarely been wrong in predicting a disaster of some sort when people perpetually try to just ignore something and hope it'll go away.

I'm thinking there are plenty of people in the business who would completely understand. Any agent/director/company that would hold it against you for making a legitimate complaint about something this serious is not worth working for in the first place. There is no amount of money that's worth that kind of a compromise if it's really that important in the first place. Or at least if there is, it sure isn't the paltry wages these people pay when you take the length of the average porn career into account.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/21/2010 2:49:05 AM

[Link]

gingerlee
Member

301 Posts
5/06

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 3:28AM

^^It's complicated. Fucked up, but complicated. Different people react different ways to the exact same chain of events. Traumatic or fucked up circumstances, on a porn set or elsewhere, are no different. We can all say what we ‘think’ we’d do if we were put in a situation, but until it’s happening, nobody really knows until it’s there in their faces. Sometimes having to admit you weren’t in control, (or that you froze or didn’t fight back or walk off or whatever else people say they’d do) is far more frightening that trying to pretend it didn’t happen.
If statistically, in the general public, something like 60% of sexual assault is never reported, and of those that are, only about 50% of those result in arrest, and then of those only 80% prosecute, 58% of those get a conviction, and something like 69% result in jail time. If those are the stats for ones that are actually reported for ‘regular’ people, the odds of something working out any better for somebody in the sex industry are probably quite a bit lower.
I’m in the middle of a giant legal battle that has nothing at all to do with the fact that I’ve done porn or stripped, but you know what the first question the defense attorney asks me is about? Yeah, porn and stripping. Even when I do all the stuff that we are told to do when it comes to asking for help….the only thing that matters in the courtroom is that the judge/jury/whoever hears ‘porn’ ‘stripper’ ‘sex’ or some other sensationalist buzzword first, everything else kinda gets tuned out after that. When that’s the chain of events for a case that isn’t about something messed up happening at a shoot or on a set, I totally understand why girls don’t say anything.
Public outcry and having people online or something like that express that they aren’t cool with certain activities taking place falls flat rather quickly when you’re sitting in a police station or courtroom being grilled all by yourself.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 4:18AM

Yes. This makes sense but it's still better to try to do something than nothing at all. You lose nothing even if they get away with it. And regardless of the outcome, they might think twice before doing it again. It can't be any more uncomfortable and unpleasant than the original experience was to begin with. Or to put it another way, after getting hit by a bus, being stung by a bee is a relatively minor event (unless you're allergic, I guess).
I can say that if it were me, I would want to just let it slide because I don't like to make waves any more than the next person but if it was a big deal to me, I'd push it because I know if you let people push you around they'll never stop. You have to stand up to bullies even if you get clobbered.

How do we know it happened if it's never reported, investigated or proved? It's awfully easy for someone to say they were assaulted 20 years ago if they never had to prove it and any actual evidence there might have been is long gone. They can throw numbers out there and say "Hey. You know 60% of rapes are never reported?" And to that, I say "How do you know?". It's like saying that half of all murders go undetected.

Frankly, I think sometimes women lose sight of how much power they actually have in this area.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/21/2010 4:23:47 AM

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 4:30AM

Something to consider: it recently came to light that in the infamous Pickton case in Canada, there was an earlier incident in 1997 where Pickton picked up a prostitute, handcuffed her and repeatedly stabbed her. She escaped and reported him but the Crown didn't press charges because the victim 'wasn't credible.' Pickton murdered at least 20+ women, pretty much all of them sex workers.
Now if the police won't believe a sex worker who has been repeatedly stabbed by a man with a history of violence and assault, what chance do you think a porn performer has pressing charges against an abusive producer?

[Link]

purgatori
Deactivated User

202 Posts
6/10

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 5:46AM

Newsflash: the majority of the porn industry caters to mainstream male sexuality, which is inextricably bound up with aggression/sadism, and the desire to dominate, control and humiliate -- especially in cultures where misogyny remains a vital force. And yes, if you get off on this sort of thing (and not just in its most extreme forms), you are, at the very least, a misogynist.

[Link]

slave_trader
New Member

Really into submissive-porn.com
3 Posts
8/10

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:10AM

Sorry, I don't feel like a misogynist when I enjoy humiliation and abuse, provided:
* it is limited to sexual behaviour (not political, social, economic - everyday life)
* it is consensual, i.e. the woman enjoys her role in that play
Besides there's abuse the other way around as well. Quite a lot of dominatrix's around...

[Link]

Kimi Lixx
Senior Member

2012 Posts
6/01

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:06PM

Similar to what happened here in Cleveland with Anthony Sowell. Even worse, he was a convicted sex offender when this woman reported her attack and she still wasn't credible enough.

[Link]

purgatori
Deactivated User

202 Posts
6/10

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:19PM

Well, I would submit that how one 'feels' about such things might be less revealing than a deeply considered and honest answer to a question such as, 'why do I find the spectacle of a women being abused arousing?'

[Link]

leatherface
Senior Member

1258 Posts
7/07

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:43PM

because there's the aspect of domination and control, but in a contest where at least in theory there's no a real abuse and all is consensual. A fantasy. I don't think that everybody who enjoy to see rough porn is a mysoginist.

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gingerlee
Member

301 Posts
5/06

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 12:46PM

Know what 'pushing the issue' got me? I sit on a witness stand, over and over, having to tell the same story in front of different people, and I get to watch them slowly shift as soon as they hear certain words about me. I deal with a district attorney, an advocate, the entire police department, the FBI, and sit in court for hours on end....and the only thing that happens to the person that has tried to KILL me more than once is a slap on the wrist. He walks out of court, goes on his merry way, and then starts doing what he's been doing for more than a year all over again. I have to tell what happened to a bunch of people that don't give a shit simply because I'm a sex worker and every single time I feel shittier about myself because if I was say, a teacher, it'd play out differently. It is humiliating on more levels that you could think.

People report it to crisis lines, go to the ER, go to domestic violence units, or sexual assault units and ask for help, but don't report it to the police. Some wait for years to do it for a multitude of reasons. It's a psychological thing. Actual cases of 'false rape' reports are very, very rare.

Sex workers don't get the supposed power, at least not in this country. Every single case of sexual assault I know of that has involved a sex worker of some kind was written off, treated like it was on the bottom of the list of priorities, and if the girl pushed it she was chastised for it. I get the displeasure of watching court proceedings every 2 weeks with cases where ‘normal’ women have been beaten, abused, stalked, sexually assaulted, nearly murdered, and sometimes still have the marks to prove it. The first thing brought up is her sexuality and what she may or may not have done to provoke it.
When, as a sex worker, I’ve had to come to accept that I’m eventually going to be murdered because nobody is going to help me as long as I’m still alive, even when I ask for help over and over…something is wrong. All the fighting and paperwork and court dates I’ve been going to these past few months aren’t going to help me while I’m still alive, they’re going to make the murder conviction easier. (Those aren’t my words, those were said to me by both the police and the DA.) Cleaning up dead bodies and proving a murder is way more cut and dry and proving abuse/sexual assault/stalking/etc. That part isn't exculsive to sex workers, though.

[Link]

Kimi Lixx
Senior Member

2012 Posts
6/01

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 3:30PM

gingerlee wrote:
Know what 'pushing the issue' got me? I sit on a witness stand, over and over, having to tell the same story in front of different people, and I get to watch them slowly shift as soon as they hear certain words about me. I deal with a district attorney, an advocate, the entire police department, the FBI, and sit in court for hours on end....and the only thing that happens to the person that has tried to KILL me more than once is a slap on the wrist. He walks out of court, goes on his merry way, and then starts doing what he's been doing for more than a year all over again. I have to tell what happened to a bunch of people that don't give a shit simply because I'm a sex worker and every single time I feel shittier about myself because if I was say, a teacher, it'd play out differently. It is humiliating on more levels that you could think.
Click to expand

First - I'm sorry.
I went through a similar thing, although for me it was in court with my daughter. She was assaulted when she was 14, and I did what any decent parent does, pressed charges against the 23 yr old who seemed to think that it was perfectly acceptable to seduce an undeveloped child, get her drunk and high, and do whatever he wanted with her.
The first thing they did was grill me over MY sexual practices, as if that was relevant to what happened to my daughter. Then, over and over, again, as if it were relevant, I got to hear how my daughter apparently deserved to be assaulted because her mother was a whore. Of course, this is all in court, in front of my child.
Weeee...

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 3:53PM

Thank you, Ginger Lee!
* * *
Random Precision --
I don't know what you've got invested in your position, exactly, but it seems to be preventing you from giving enough credit to what Ginger is saying. Your point of view appears to spring out of some very theoretical notions about human behavior as well as a concern that you're somehow in danger of being victimized -- rather than from lived experience. Since you're normally a reasonable guy, I'm surprised.
-------------
Edited by - bob on 8/21/2010 7:12:30 PM

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:21PM

I know neither of you are looking for this, but I'm sorry to hear your stories Kimi and Ginger. Not surprised, unfortunately, but sorry.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:29PM

That case is equally ridiculous, with the detectives finding blood at the scene you wonder how they figured the woman 'wasn't credible.'
I notice that one of the detectives who specialized in dealing with sex workers and related cases said that at first the response from the police was appropriate. That's probably what would help, more units with police specifically trained to work these kind of cases.

[Link]

THICK_LOVA54
Senior Member

Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade.
1441 Posts
5/10

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:32PM

^^That's a shame, sorry to hear that. Thats the system, they use what they can when they can. If they were in a position to use your career choice to their advantage they would have done it. Its not about right and wrong and thats the problem with the system.
Crimson Rain...What A Sight

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gingerlee
Member

301 Posts
5/06

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 9:41PM

Thank you. I know I probably sound bitter and pissed off, but that's probably because I am. Every time a person asks 'Why didn't you say something sooner?' I want to bang my head on a wall. The only thing pressing the issue and not trying to walk away and 'move on with my life' has done has made the entire situation worse. It gets worse every single day, and every day I get reminded that if I wasn't a sex worker, I may get taken a bit more seriously. Most of the 'regular' chicks I get to sit with and listen to don't actually get much help either, but whatever. I just get the awesome knowledge that somebody wants me dead, has attempted to kill more than once, and not a single person in the 'justice' system gives a shit until I'm actually dead, because I'm a sex worker. It's a warm fuzzy kind of feeling....or not.

[Link]

Dave_K99
Member

497 Posts
12/07

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 10:15PM

With this the legal system itself seems like a pretty small part of the problem.
In a world that's a bit saner about sex this just wouldn't make any sense at all. It'd be like constantly bringing up someone's irrelevant office job to discredit them, or commenting on the food they eat to attack their credibility. If people didn't have such a fucked up view of sex and sex workers then there'd be no issue there for them to use.
It's a horrible thought that anyone could look at what Kimi and Ginger have experienced, or look at the behaviour of the police and courts in many different cases involving sex workers, and consider that situation to be acceptable.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 10:19PM

Wow, I'm sorry to hear Kimi and Ginger's tales. Unfortunately, not all humans can be socialized, and you can't tell an egoist asshole just by looking at him.
It adds insult to injury that our society does so little to protect women abused by these animals, but our justice system, as the name implies, is designed to balance the scales, not to prevent them from being tipped out of balance in the first place.
I wish you the best Ginger, but I'm afraid wishes are worth very little at this point.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:15PM

This is sad and frightening. Seriously -- why don't you relocate?

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:31PM

Did they say the victim wasn't credible because she was a sex worker or was there some other reason for it? Or did they give a reason? The story doesn't say and I've never heard anything about this case so I wouldn't know. I really can't imagine that they would just let something like that go just because she was a sex worker. Even if they had nothing but contempt for her, they couldn't know the guy wasn't going to murder somebody's kid or something a week later.

I think there has to be more to it. Maybe I'm wrong but it just sounds fishy.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/21/2010 11:34:14 PM

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 11:44PM

Why can't you imagine it?
(Four years of your posts consistently evidence your distrust of people in positions of power and authority.)

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Dave_K99
Member

497 Posts
12/07

Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 1:51AM

There are so many clear examples of this that I don't really understand why you're sceptical.
Of course the police aren't going to state outright that they didn't give a shit about sex workers being assaulted or murdered, but it's pretty obvious that those cases are treated very differently. It's telling how many "successful" serial killers -- especially the ones who got away with it for years -- targeted sex workers.
From what I've read, it's not so long ago that certain police forces in America unapologetically labelled cases involving sex workers with NHI (no human involved), and deliberately made them a low priority for investigation.
Back during the Yorkshire Ripper case in the UK, the police were described as "apathetic about the murder of prostitutes", and admitted that they started taking the case more seriously when Sutcliffe began targeting "innocent girls". The first non-sex worker to be murdered certainly marked a big change in the way the case was treated by the press.
The media still makes a pretty clear distinction, often acting as if sex workers aren't real victims. A few years back, when there were five murders in Ipswich, I remember tabloids complaining about the deaths being taken too seriously. Britain's second biggest selling paper The Daily Mail had an article calling the victims 'no great loss' and stating that for 'prostitutes death by strangulation is an occupational hazard'.
For a recent US example, how about this judge stating that the gang rape of an escort at gunpoint should be considered 'theft of services'?
Even without the actual cases, you just have to look at the shitty attitude that so many people have towards sex workers; it doesn't take much imagination to see how that attitude could influence the way they're treated.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 3:11AM

Something just doesn't pass the smell test is all.
Isn't it funny how the system works just fine when it wants to? I just tend to wonder why people drag their feet in certain cases when we've seen them doing their job flawlessly (Or at least conscientiously) on other occasions. I think there has to be more to it than them just having a low opinion of sex workers. They probably have a low opinion of a lot of the victims who come through their doors. Why are sex workers seemingly singled out?

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 3:46AM

The media always has an agenda. They're largely responsible for the way people think of sex workers in the first place. The question is - What exactly is their agenda? What angle are they working by pretending not to give a shit about things they obviously are keenly interested in?
It can certainly be said that profit is a big part of what motivates the media but the western media is much more than just a money machine and this is obvious to anyone who has spent any amount of time really paying attention to what is being said in the media

I agree. I just think that most of the people who have that attitude have it because they've got cabbage in their heads and they're easily influenced by people who tell them what they're supposed to think. I see it all the time. It isn't the work they do that gives people this attitude. It's the diet of intellectual slop that most people are consuming that drills these things into their heads. It's not normal for a man to think a woman who likes sex is a lower life form and yet that's exactly what millions of men believe. How does this happen unless that message is being deliberately drilled into them? And it's not just conservatives who are responsible for this.

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 6:13AM

Because there is rarely anything besides the testimony of the victim to distinguish intent, because they know that the jury will probably have a low opinion of the sex worker by virtue of her profession, and because they know the defense will beat up their witness, metaphorically speaking.
Furthermore, if the sex worker's trade is not legal to begin with then the cops have no sympathy for her. How many times have you heard, 'You shouldn't have been doing that to begin with'?
[typos]
Edited by - hardware on 8/22/2010 6:17:14 AM

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slave_trader
New Member

Really into submissive-porn.com
3 Posts
8/10

Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 9:29AM

Please ask women why they find it arousing to dominate men.
And: I not only do not feel like a misogynist; I AM no misogynist. In fact I adore women and have high respect of those who are capable of being submissive

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 5:24PM

I'm just wondering how this thread turned from being about guys' tastes in porn to being about real-life crimes. I mentioned in an earlier post that some porn acts as if the audience is unable to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Are they right?
Edited by - realtip on 8/22/2010 5:24:45 PM

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Loraine
Senior Member

1559 Posts
3/04

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 12:14AM

Deviation?

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zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 12:23AM

As long as they are consenting adults and they get my dick hard
I don't give a f**k. I never like Max Hardcore because he was a
little obnoxious jerk. Buy I love Meatholes. That shit is genius!!

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ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 12:48AM

I wanna see Loraine being deviant.

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 1:05AM

What does statistics have to do with this?

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 1:47AM

The thread went that way because there were the usual suspects questioning the idea that if a woman is abused without her consent that she wouldn't get a reasonable hearing from the police.

[Link]

realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:21AM

A woman reporting that she was abused without her consent would definitely get a serious reaction from the police.
A pornstar who performs a scene all the way through until the end without resistance or complaint, takes the money for it, and provides her signature rendering her consent, but then turns around and complains that she was the victim of a sex crime would not be taken seriously.
Edited by - realtip on 8/23/2010 2:38:52 AM

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CHI - BEAR 85
Deactivated User

225 Posts
9/08

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:50AM

CHI - BEAR 85
Deactivated User

225 Posts
9/08

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:53AM

Same here, but I prefer Facial Abuse and herfirstgangbang.com

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His Dudeness
All Business

Shut the fuck up, Donny!!
2793 Posts
4/10

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:59AM

realtip: A woman reporting that she was abused without her consent would definitely get a serious reaction from the police.
A pornstar who performs a scene all the way through until the end without resistance or complaint, takes the money for it, and provides her signature rendering her consent, but then turns around and complains that she was the victim of a sex crime would not be taken seriously.
^Amen to that! And yes Facial Abuse is grade A stuff.

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bigbenlondon
New Member

3 Posts
8/10

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 7:06AM

BlackSix wrote:
Something to consider: it recently came to light that in the infamous Pickton case in Canada, there was an earlier incident in 1997 where Pickton picked up a prostitute, handcuffed her and repeatedly stabbed her. She escaped and reported him but the Crown didn't press charges because the victim 'wasn't credible.' Pickton murdered at least 20+ women, pretty much all of them sex workers.
Did they say the victim wasn't credible because she was a sex worker or was there some other reason for it? Or did they give a reason? The story doesn't say and I've never heard anything about this case so I wouldn't know. I really can't imagine that they would just let something like that go just because she was a sex worker. Even if they had nothing but contempt for her, they couldn't know the guy wasn't going to murder somebody's kid or something a week later.
I think there has to be more to it. Maybe I'm wrong but it just sounds fishy.
Pickton murdered prostitutes he picked up off of the street. Many of then native indian. Why? Because they are likely to be drug addicted, alchoholic, and uneducated, with a massive distrust of authority, and likely to have criminal records for drugs and/or prostitution, therefore unlikely to press charges, and even if they did would not be taken seriously or be easily discredited by the courts. Mental illness could also be an issue.
Many would have broken contact with their families, so there would be no one to raise the alarm or make a missing person report when they disappear, for months or years if at all. All trails are cold by then.

Pickton was a tax paying, land owning farmer. Imagine someone like this in court with someone who not only admits to being a sex worker, but has maybe spent time in jail, is addicted to alchohol or crack, has missed drug rehab meetings or
not visited their parole officer.
Women who sell sex on the street will often have a string of other problems, and this is why they are doing what they are doing.
and if they are raped or stabbed and tell the police and the crown decides not to pursue the case....how will other sex workers respond to this kind of treatment?

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 2:48PM

So let me see if I have this right -
Most of the people who are upset about this seem to be blaming the people who watch and enjoy it. And yet, the problems that are coming up are -
1. The women involved either choose to do it or get tricked into doing it by unscrupulous directors/agents/whatevers
2. When it does involve someone being deliberately deceptive, the women either don't report it to the appropriate authorities for fear they won't be taken seriously or they try to report it and the legal system doesn't respond appropriately.
How does the blame for any of this fall on the shoulders of someone who bought the movie/scene/whatever? I guess that's a rhetorical question because I know anyone with a good imagination can make something up.
The problem is that the legal system doesn't respond properly when the making of the video may have involved a lack of consent. It's not your fault and it's not mine. I didn't make the system. I don't make the rules and I can't do anything about it when the system works selectively. It does this all the time independently of our support or consent. The people who make the rules will arrest you for driving drunk or selling weed or whatever it is but will elect not to do anything about a guy who beats a woman down on a porn set without her consent. What can we do about that? It's up to the people who make the rules and man the system to apply justice fairly and evenly.
In the end, it tends to be easier to deal with a problem where it starts and in this case, it starts inside the industry. You can't blame the consumer for buying what the industry sells.
Also, it seems like a good deal of the responsibility for this sort of thing happening in the first place tends to rest with bad agents. If an agent gets a reputation for doing this kind of thing, why doesn't the rest of the industry blacklist HIM instead of the girls who complain about him? How hard could that be? Or is it already done? And if it is, how do these people keep working? There have to be some good agents who would be nothing but pleased to pick up the slack left by the guys nobody wants around. Why on earth should a hot chick have to worry about being blacklisted in the porn business for complaining about someone who is ultimately bad for the business anyway? Why would the industry even want these guys around if they might be driving hot girls out of the business?
If the industry is going to make this kind of content at all (Meaning the kind of content that involves anything rough or anything that could even accidentally be misinterpreted), it's going to have to make sure there is no doubt at all about consent. I'm not going to have people shaming me because I watched a rough sex video and it turns out the girl was tricked into it by some guy I've never heard of and I don't find out about it until 3 years later or something. It just shouldn't happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder if it was consensual. Don't blame people for buying something that is there. Blame the people who created it. Whether it's porn or something else, if it's a great product, you don't credit the customer. You credit the company that made it. If it's a bad (or even dangerous) product you take your beef to the company that put it on the shelf.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 3:10:06 PM

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Bigscotsman27
Member

464 Posts
9/09

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 3:28PM

RandomPrecision wrote:
So let me see if I have this right -
Most of the people who are upset about this seem to be blaming the people who watch and enjoy it. And yet, the problems that are coming up are -
1. The women involved either choose to do it or get tricked into doing it by unscrupulous directors/agents/whatevers
2. When it does involve someone being deliberately deceptive, the women either don't report it to the appropriate authorities for fear they won't be taken seriously or they try to report it and the legal system doesn't respond appropriately.
How does the blame for any of this fall on the shoulders of someone who bought the movie/scene/whatever? I guess that's a rhetorical question because I know anyone with a good imagination can make something up.
The problem is that the legal system doesn't respond properly when the making of the video may have involved a lack of consent. It's not your fault and it's not mine. I didn't make the system. I don't make the rules and I can't do anything about it when the system works selectively. It does this all the time independently of our support or consent. The people who make the rules will arrest you for driving drunk or selling weed or whatever it is but will elect not to do anything about a guy who beats a woman down on a porn set without her consent. What can we do about that? It's up to the people who make the rules and man the system to apply justice fairly and evenly.
In the end, it tends to be easier to deal with a problem where it starts and in this case, it starts inside the industry. You can't blame the consumer for buying what the industry sells.
Also, it seems like a good deal of the responsibility for this sort of thing happening in the first place tends to rest with bad agents. If an agent gets a reputation for doing this kind of thing, why doesn't the rest of the industry blacklist HIM instead of the girls who complain about him? How hard could that be? Or is it already done? And if it is, how do these people keep working? There have to be some good agents who would be nothing but pleased to pick up the slack left by the guys nobody wants around. Why on earth should a hot chick have to worry about being blacklisted in the porn business for complaining about someone who is ultimately bad for the business anyway? Why would the industry even want these guys around if they might be driving hot girls out of the business?
If the industry is going to make this kind of content at all (Meaning the kind of content that involves anything rough or anything that could even accidentally be misinterpreted), it's going to have to make sure there is no doubt at all about consent. I'm not going to have people shaming me because I watched a rough sex video and it turns out the girl was tricked into it by some guy I've never heard of and I don't find out about it until 3 years later or something. It just shouldn't happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder if it was consensual. Don't blame people for buying something that is there. Blame the people who created it. Whether it's porn or something else, if it's a great product, you don't credit the customer. You credit the company that made it. If it's a bad (or even dangerous) product you take your beef to the company that put it on the shelf.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 3:10:06 PM
Click to expand

Who are you to tell us what to do or think?

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