I Confess, I Like Watching Women Get "Abused"... (page 4)

Author	Post
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 4:14PM ^ That might have made you look really cool if you hadn't quoted the entire HUGE post directly above your post. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 4:14:47 PM [Link]
Bigscotsman27 Member 464 Posts 9/09	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 4:40PM ^ Doh! [Link]
TwoHeadedBoy Member I will take you and leave you alone 46 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 6:55PM RandomPrecision wrote: If the industry is going to make this kind of content at all (Meaning the kind of content that involves anything rough or anything that could even accidentally be misinterpreted), it's going to have to make sure there is no doubt at all about consent. I'm not going to have people shaming me because I watched a rough sex video and it turns out the girl was tricked into it by some guy I've never heard of and I don't find out about it until 3 years later or something. It just shouldn't happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder if it was consensual. Don't blame people for buying something that is there. Blame the people who created it. Whether it's porn or something else, if it's a great product, you don't credit the customer. You credit the company that made it. If it's a bad (or even dangerous) product you take your beef to the company that put it on the shelf. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 3:10:06 PM Click to expand If you found out three years later, I don't think there's any reason to feel any shame at all. The only problem I can see from a consumer point of view would be getting any enjoyment out of that scene knowing that there was actually no consent. I tend to re-watch a lot of my favourite scenes, and the thought of physically and mentally getting off on someone else's misery is personally not a place I'm willing to go. Whether or not they press charges afterwards doesn't take back what already happened. It can only take a step towards making sure it doesn't happen again. Some people on this thread seemed to get off on knowing their fantasies of abuse have turned in to reality, and while their viewing these old scenes may not affect the woman directly, I believe it still fuels the negative stereotype of misogyny in our society, a stereotype I would hope all men would be looking to put behind us. Shifting the blame on to producers or consumers entirely is both non-productive and childish. What harm can it do as a consumer to simply take a stand for what you believe in? I can only try to control what little impact I do have on whether scenes like this keep getting made. On trying to make sure none of the money these guys are making is mine. On what producers think about when or if they view this thread. That's my place in the big picture. Whether it makes any difference in the end or not is irrelevant. I only hope there are other people out there that feel the same. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 9:01PM RandomPrecision wrote: Most of the people who are upset about this seem to be blaming the people who watch and enjoy it. Click to expand I'm not blaming the people who enjoy this kind of scene for the occurence of the scene; I'm just saying that they're sick, twisted fucks and I hope they don't live in my neighborhood. The nice thing about free speech is that other people are free to say what they like and I'm free to say that I think they need help. They're free to tell me to fuck off. I'm free to make fun of them, etc. Belief in free speech is a commitment to open exchange and spirited debate. It doesn't require acceptance of the (ludicrious) proposition that every opinion, belief, taste, or activity is as good/valid/healthy/laudable as every other one -- quite the opposite. ------------- Edited by - bob on 8/23/2010 9:03:20 PM [Link]

realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 12:39AM Bob wrote: I'm not blaming the people who enjoy this kind of scene for the occurence of the scene; I'm just saying that they're sick, twisted fucks and I hope they don't live in my neighborhood. Click to expand I've got news for you. They do. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 1:41AM ^^^ I try to stay optimistic even in the face of adversity. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 1:57AM realtip wrote: A woman reporting that she was abused without her consent would definitely get a serious reaction from the police. Click to expand You say this despite all the evidence to the contrary presented by Ginger Lee, Kimi and other posters here based on actual experience or factual cases. Reality is a stubborn thing. Anyways, this thread was derailed when several posters came on and said they were into watching women really being abused past their agreed limits. They seemed to be the ones with difficulty seperating reality and fantasy. Since then, all the poster who initally stated it was 'better when they didn't know what was going to happen to them' have rather dishonestly claimed that it's all 'fantasy.' But what they were praising was when they thought it wasn't fantasy. You have similarly dodged the issue. Others then claimed that if real abuse ever happened the performers would only need complain and the cops would be all over the producers, so several posters came forward with some similar real-life, not theoretical, experiences to refute that claim. My initial post was far from hostile to the OP, I even recommended some of the directors I admire who shoot rough sex. It would be great if we could have a conversation on here about S/M or rough sex videos without it devolving into a debate about consent, but then posters would have to refrain from braying like drunk frat boys about getting off on real life pain and distress. Edited by - BlackSix on 8/24/2010 2:46:39 AM [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:05AM ^How have I dodged the issue? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:06AM You said 'it's all fantasy' even though the posters said what got them off was the belief that what they were watching wasn't fantasy. [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:11AM BlackSix wrote: "...the posters said what got them off was the belief that what they were watching wasn't fantasy. Click to expand Isn't the whole point of fantasy believing something to be true when it isn't? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:16AM As you have implied yourself, not being to tell the difference between reality and fantasy is problematic. You don't think there's any difference between an age-play scene and actual CP? Edited by - BlackSix on 8/24/2010 3:17:03 AM [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:29AM Going by many of the threads on this forum, there are people here who can't distinguish between age-play and real-life CP. I think these are probably the same people who can't distinguish between acting and reality. It looks like the people who are opposed to it are the ones who have the problem distinguishing. [Link]
web_jock Member 21 Posts 8/10	Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 7:36PM I too happen to be a new fan of the Female Abuse Niche. For some reason, I like to see the following: Women getting slapped and/or punched in the face by men. Women getting spit on in the face by men. Women licking men's asses. (I have a couple of videos that feature guys punching women in their bellies!) Women swallowing men's underwear. Women sucking on men's feet and toes. Men pissing all over women. Men dunking women's heads in the toilet and making the women lick the toilet bowls. Men sqeezing, slapping and punching women on their boobs. Men wiping their asses on women's boobs and/or faces. I just laugh when I see it, even though many people - including myself - see me as demented and sick. I know that one of the classic flicks for the Female Abuse genre of porn is called COCKTAILS 2 starring Taylor St. Claire. Does anyone know where I can find COCKTAILS 2 so that I can buy it? Also, there was another porn called BOTTOMS UP 2, which was made by Annabolic, or something like that. Some of the scenes featured guys shoving girl's heads in toilets. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Does anyone know where I can find this DVD? If anyone knows about how and where I can get COCKTAILS 2, BOTTOMS UP 2 and/or any other good porn flick featuring men dominating and/or abusing women and just plain treating them like dirt, then please let me know. In the meantime, I am going to check Brazzer's porn videos. (I like that one scene where that guy threw that bitch clear across the room and into the filing cabinet, where he later spanked her. That was funny!) [Link]
tookie Member 732 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 9:00PM web_jock wrote: For some reason Click to expand The reason is that you hate women. The reason for that is probably fear. [Link]

duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 9:03PM web_jock wrote: I too happen to be a new fan of the Female Abuse Niche. For some reason, I like to see the following:. . . I just laugh when I see it. Click to expand I have mentioned here and elsewhere about porn being fantasy, that prople are often aroused by things, like rough sex and even abuse of women that they would not dream of ever actually doing, especially to someone they loved enough to be intimate with. Sometimes, those aroused by abuse and rape fantasies are not content with imagination and abuse porn becomes, for them, a catalyst and a vindication for actual abuse. These people are a sick and criminal minority, and, although porn did not make them what they are, it does incite them. I believe the time is coming when this kind of porn will become unprofitable and so detrimental to the industry in these times of change that it will no longer be made. Personally, I hope so. I think that someone like web_jock, who thinks it's actually FUNNY to watch women get pissed on, punched, demeaned and humiliated is on the verge, if not beyond it, of being one of those emotionally disturbed people for whom fantasy is no longer enough. He is one of those who, unlike many ADTers, give porn a bad name and regrettably provide ammunition to those who seek legal permission to tell every one else what they can read or watch or do in private. As such, he and people like him, though they cetainly do not realize or intend it, are one of the greatest enemies now threatening pornography and, for that matter, the individual's ability to live as he pleases. [Link]
skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02	Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 9:47PM Do the guys who like to punch girls also like to be punched by girls? If the answer is no, then you're a sissy ass felch licker. [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 12:27AM I don't get the impression that web_jock is actually serious. [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 1:38AM I remember when it was a big deal if a pornstar let one guy cum on their face (and I'm talking their cheek or chin) let alone cum in their mouth. And they wanted extra money for that of course. This was like 1980s. Now you got girls doing all kinds of crazy stuff -- blowbangs, bukkakes, gokkun, squirting (which is really pissing), extreme gagging, spitting, and the list goes on. Jeez if bestiality was legal I'd imagine they'd have no problem finding girls willing to do that also (e.g. proven by foreign bestiality movies). I guess you can thank the flood of young women willing to do porn nowadays and the increasing lack of self-esteem of among them. Personally I find watching some of this stuff like gagging and gokkun too much and too disgusting for my taste. Initially it has some shock value but that gets old after the first couple of these you see. Gangbangs and bukkakes are ok but get kinda boring after a while also. That's why I dig the Meathole stuff. Not the slapping and spitting part but the mental stuff. Watching a girl get physically used and abused like a test dummy is not very erotic, but watching her being submissive and broken down emotionally has some edge to it and you get to see the real them. It also makes you realize doing porn is not fun like performers pretend. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 1:45AM Bob wrote: The nice thing about free speech is that other people are free to say what they like and I'm free to say that I think they need help. Click to expand Yes. You're free to use your right to free speech to protest free speech. But you know the only people who really benefit from this are the people who want to control all speech and not just the kind you think is sick. I'm just saying you should be aware that all this stuff is probably coming from the usual suspects. Divide and conquer. Remember? At the end of the day, we'll all be sitting here debating what happened to all the porn. And I won't be the guy you can blame for condemning someone else's masturbatory habits. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/26/2010 1:47:33 AM [Link]
THICK_LOVA54 Senior Member Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade. 1441 Posts 5/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 2:54AM Some of what is being said here is hard to swallow Let me ask this, would you care if someone was doing this type of stuff to your mother, sister, aunt, etc.? Would it be amusing then? What if your friends and co-workers watched it? Would it be understandable for them to watch and enjoy it then? Crimson Rain...What A Sight [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:09AM ^Makes absolutely no sense. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:14AM RandomPrecision wrote: You're free to use your right to free speech to protest free speech. But you know the only people who really benefit from this are the people who want to control all speech and not just the kind you think is sick. Click to expand No, you really don't get it. Isn't what we say supposed to disclose who we are and what we believe in? I'm not protesting free speech. I'm taking issue with the content of some speech and the consequent character of some speakers. I'm listening to the speech of others and responding -- that's the give and take of communication. It ain't always rosey and polite. Satire and derision have always counted as legitimate modes speech. One of the prime justifications for free speech is that it allows people have it out in a civilized manner. Hopefully, the best ideas (whoever has them) win out in public opinion. I have no desire to to censor anybody or control anybody. Just because I may think that someone needs mental help doesn't mean that I'd ever arrogate to myself the power to commit them -- I wouldn't if I could. In my view, some ideas are dangerous. But I don't propose to suppress them; I propose to denounce them. Think of me as a vocificerous participant in the marketplace of the mind. [Link]
Absur Member 24 Posts 10/04	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:20AM For some girls it is a sexual turn ON tho. [Link]
THICK_LOVA54 Senior Member Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade. 1441 Posts 5/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:21AM realtip wrote: ^Makes absolutely no sense. Click to expand How does it make no sense? Answer the question. Crimson Rain...What A Sight [Link]

realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:29AM ^The question doesn't make sense because I wouldn't want a member of my family doing porn at all. Thus, it wouldn't matter what kind of porn they were doing. I wouldn't like it regardless. It also has nothing to do with the topic at hand. [Link]
THICK_LOVA54 Senior Member Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade. 1441 Posts 5/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:34AM So it makes perfect sense. If they were doing "any" porn, so would'nt this type of porn be even more hurtful? If it's not ok for me to watch your mother or sister do it, why is it ok to watch these woman have it done to them? Also this discussion was already away from the original topic before I said anything. Crimson Rain...What A Sight Edited by - THICK_LOVA54 on 8/26/2010 3:37:11 AM [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:38AM You're right about the last sentence. But when I'm enjoying porn, the last thing I'm trying to think about are my relatives. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 5:49AM Bob wrote: Isn't what we say supposed to disclose who we are and what we believe in? Click to expand I don't know. Sometimes it's just a verbal fart that doesn't mean a whole lot other than you just felt like saying something odious. I'm not protesting free speech. I'm taking issue with the content of some speech and the consequent character of some speakers. Click to expand I'm aware of that. One of the prime justifications for free speech is that it allows people have it out in a civilized manner. Click to expand No real argument but there isn't a whole lot to be gained from having it out if by doing so, you fracture fragile alliances that are vital to a (or several) common interest(s). What are we trying to accomplish here? In my view, some ideas are dangerous. Click to expand That's all you really have to say. I know I took it out of context but it's the heart of it. You and I don't get to decide which ideas are dangerous. What we do is get all perturbed about things like this and unwittingly serve as the catalyst that propels the issue into the political arena. When it comes down to it, at best, we get to vote in some rigged poll (Rigged because it's specifically designed to produce the desired response) and say whether we think some ideas are dangerous or not. Which is a bulletproof question to ask if you want the majority of people to say yes. And then, our representatives (who don't really represent us at all) will decide for us which ones are and which ones aren't. You'll be fine, I guess, as long as your ideas are all perfectly in line with those of everyone who has any say at all. I don't have that much faith in anyone. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 1:41PM RandomPrecision wrote: Bob wrote: In my view, some ideas are dangerous. Click to expand That's all you really have to say. I know I took it out of context but it's the heart of it. You and I don't get to decide which ideas are dangerous. Click to expand No. When you took it out of context, you cut out the heart of it. The heart of it was this: "I have no desire to to censor anybody or control anybody. . . . In my view, some ideas are dangerous. But I don't propose to suppress them; I propose to denounce them." I'm not combatting their right to engage in free speech. I'm using the content of my free speech to combat -- on the same level and in the same way -- the content of their free speech. I'm further making clear that I completely denounce the suppression of ideas for any reason. Bad ideas should be driven out by good ideas -- not by political action. The rest of your post -- which seemingly argues that the exercise of free speech is ultimately pointless -- reflects a position that I don't subscribe to. [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:57PM THICK_LOVA54 wrote: Some of what is being said here is hard to swallow Let me ask this, would you care if someone was doing this type of stuff to your mother, sister, aunt, etc.? Would it be amusing then? What if your friends and co-workers watched it? Would it be understandable for them to watch and enjoy it then? Crimson Rain...What A Sight Click to expand No I would not like one of my female relatives to a pornstar at all. In fact there are a lot of things I would not like them to be .. a guest on Jerry Springer, a homosexual/lesbian, a sleazy lawyer, a drug dealer, a member of the Taliban, a republican, ... I could go on. But its not my life its there life!!! In fact in Meatholes you find out several of the girls admit their family members don't know what they do or don't approve. So hell no I would not prefer my daughter be a pornstar or a whore. But I'm not going to crucify them for choosing that lifestyle either. Life is about choices. You can choose to go the hard route or the easy route. Each has its pros and cons. It's not bad to wish your family choose the route that leads to less trouble. But lets face it the route that leads to easy money and less work will always have more stigma and troubles associated with it, otherwise everyone would go that route. For women its prostitution and porn, for men its typically drugs and other criminal activity. But hey dont' play the holy than thou game here. If you watch porn you cannot be a hypocrite. By buying porn you are subsidizing and encouraging these girls to be prostitutes. Porn is prostitution. Let's not sugar coat it. You can try to rationalize it by saying 'well I only watch the tasteful porn, not the rough stuff". But that is bullshit, its still prostitution. It's like guys who do a little weed or pot but don't think they are promoting drug use. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 4:17PM How delightful that homosexuals get lumped in with the taliban and Jerry Springer... [Link]
Prom000 Member Shakermaker 62 Posts 10/08	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 5:47PM skronker wrote: Do the guys who like to punch girls also like to be punched by girls? If the answer is no, then you're a sissy ass felch licker. Click to expand I like both. [Link]
THICK_LOVA54 Senior Member Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade. 1441 Posts 5/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 9:48PM zambi wrote: THICK_LOVA54 wrote: Some of what is being said here is hard to swallow Let me ask this, would you care if someone was doing this type of stuff to your mother, sister, aunt, etc.? Would it be amusing then? What if your friends and co-workers watched it? Would it be understandable for them to watch and enjoy it then? Crimson Rain...What A Sight Click to expand No I would not like one of my female relatives to a pornstar at all. In fact there are a lot of things I would not like them to be .. a guest on Jerry Springer, a homosexual/lesbian, a sleazy lawyer, a drug dealer, a member of the Taliban, a republican, ... I could go on. But its not my life its there life!!! In fact in Meatholes you find out several of the girls admit their family members don't know what they do or don't approve. So hell no I would not prefer my daughter be a pornstar or a whore. But I'm not going to crucify them for choosing that lifestyle either. Life is about choices. You can choose to go the hard route or the easy route. Each has its pros and cons. It's not bad to wish your family choose the route that leads to less trouble. But lets face it the route that leads to easy money and less work will always have more stigma and troubles associated with it, otherwise everyone would go that route. For women its prostitution and porn, for men its typically drugs and other criminal activity. But hey dont' play the holy than thou game here. If you watch porn you cannot be a hypocrite. By buying porn you are subsidizing and encouraging these girls to be prostitutes. Porn is prostitution. Let's not sugar coat it. You can try to rationalize it by saying 'well I only watch the tasteful porn, not the rough stuff". But that is bullshit, its still prostitution. It's like guys who do a little weed or pot but don't think they are promoting drug use. Click to expand I'm not playing a role or a game, i'm expressing my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I also believe porn and "this porn" are two different stories. Porn is sex and this is physical (possibly mental) abuse. Also, porn is not prostitution it is porn. Crimson Rain...What A Sight Edited by - THICK_LOVA54 on 8/26/2010 9:48:40 PM [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 11:31PM Prostitution = sex in exchange for money Porn = videotaped sex in exchange for money [Link]

BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 5:07AM zambi wrote: That's why I dig the Meathole stuff. Not the slapping and spitting part but the mental stuff. Watching a girl get physically used and abused like a test dummy is not very erotic, but watching her being submissive and broken down emotionally has some edge to it and you get to see the real them. It also makes you realize doing porn is not fun like performers pretend. Click to expand My understanding is that the majority of Meatholes was a in fact 'pretend' and not 'real' at all. Why do you assume that you're seeing the 'real them' when they are 'broken down'? Is that because you think all porn is bad and 'dirty' so no one could actually enjoy doing it? Even if the scenes were real, is it much of an accomplishment to make a young woman with a history of abuse or drug problems break down and cry through verbal abuse? If so, pimps and abusive boyfriends all across the country are very accomplished. I'm not sure that 'porn is not fun' is true of all porn, certainly the majority of it doesn't look like any fun, but why you would one need to realize this through something like Meatholes when it's clear in all the montonous, mechanical sex scenes? BTW outside of the whole verbal abuse angle, I find Meatholes sex scenes full of this kind of bad sex, I'd rather watch people having good sex. Does anyone watch a poorly played sporting event so that they can 'realize' that the sport isn't fun, like the players pretend? Why do some viewers of porn so desperately want to see what the female performers 'really are'? I think the assumption of who these women 'really are' says more about the viewer than the performers. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 5:11AM zambi wrote: Prostitution = sex in exchange for money Porn = videotaped sex in exchange for money Click to expand What's your point? I don't look down on prostitutes or porn performers. Neither do I look down on homosexuals, who you apparently think are morally equal to the Taliban. [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 7:43PM BlackSix wrote: zambi wrote: Prostitution = sex in exchange for money Porn = videotaped sex in exchange for money Click to expand What's your point? I don't look down on prostitutes or porn performers. Neither do I look down on homosexuals, who you apparently think are morally equal to the Taliban. Click to expand Hey 'BlackSix' and 'THICK_LOVA54' you guys are desperately needed over in the 'Men Getting "Abused" by Women' thread to defend those helpless men being abused by women in porn. ;-) https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=153936/forum_id=1/cat_id=1/reply=1851807#post1851807 [Link]
gouman Deactivated User I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish. 30 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 28 2010 : 1:32AM Wow, this topic has drifted pretty far from the OP. Anyway, after quick scan; I have a few remarks: 1.) I don't care what anybody thinks, I still like watching women getting "abused" on camera. I don't really care if they knew what they were getting themselves into. First off, watching it is entertaining. Second, the girls literally went on the record with their consent by completing the scene and taking the money. Otherwise the scenes would likely be evidence of some kind of wrongdoing against the performer. If they didn't like the job they signed up for, well, frankly, I don't feel the least bit of sympathy. Join the club. At the end of the day, they followed through, and received a hefty premium for their labor. 2.) With respect to stigma related to being a sex worker. I agree, it exist. I agree, it's fucked up. I agree, it's unfair. However, any reasonable person should be (or should have been) aware that your line of work will affect the way people perceive you. It will affect the way people treat you also. Ideally, that would not be the case, but the reality is, it is the case. So while stories of juries giving less than favorable looks upon plaintiffs that are sex workers, and hearing that cops are taking their plights less seriously is clearly unfair -- I'm still wondering how the prospective sex worker, with half a brain, didn't realize the downside that accompanied the premium pay (and any other intangible benefits e.g. notoriety of fans, etc.) of being a sex worker. The above said....I'm retiring from this thread. To any prospective responders, whether you agree or not, I concede defeat. No matter what you have to say, I concede, you're right -- I'm wrong. Also, you are smarter, better, and more popular on Adult DVD Talk than me. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Aug 28 2010 : 5:48PM zambi wrote: Hey 'BlackSix' and 'THICK_LOVA54' you guys are desperately needed over in the 'Men Getting "Abused" by Women' thread to defend those helpless men being abused by women in porn. ;-) https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=153936/forum_id=1/cat_id=1/reply=1851807#post1851807 Click to expand I've already posted in that thread, I've never thought women participating in consenual scenes need to be 'defended.' I posted several suggestions for rough sex videos already in this thread as well so don't try and pretend that I'm somehow against S/M or rough sex. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 28 2010 : 5:54PM ^ +1 for me. It's a tactic folks seem to employ to dismiss other peoples' concern for performers who are either unprepared, uninformed, or otherwise not enjoying the scene. [Link]
properM Member 80 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 4:33AM I suppose as long as the girls are willing to continue to subject themselves to such treatment, it doesn't violate censorship laws, and people are buying -- producers will keep producing. As for me, I will certainly keep watching. Click to expand Hot sex is hot. And rough sex in porn is nothing new. Hell, the so-called "golden age" of porn was fixated heavily upon the muse of forced non-consensual sexual domination. Old porn was more intense thematically. In the visual sense, the sex captured on 70's film was much tamer - but this was due mostly to the technical limitations of the affordable (read: cheap) cameras and studio kit available at the time. If the Mitchell Brothers had access to cheap wide-angle HD cams I am sure they would have included a deepthroat-to-puking-over-plate-glass job or two in Behind the Green Door. As for consensual and non-consensual sex, it seems like the scenes where I know the woman is enjoying the rough treatment (quite a few I guess) can make me feel the most guilty and queasy. This is usually because a guy will let loose if he knows a girl is into being submissive. Scenes which are questionably consensual also turn me on immensely. This does bother me. It should. Commerce on a large, industrial scale has a way of legitimating a lot of abhorrent conduct. Abusive treatment, even if this treatment is as a condition for payment, is still morally reprehensible, illegal, and girls that are mistreated need to know their rights. This is all in general. I'm all for a bunch of girls teaming with lawyers and sueing the hell out of the scumbag production outfits that are operating. After that happens I know that there will still be enough perverted girls and porn companies on the up and up producing this kind of twisted, rowdy content that I occasionally like to indulge in. [Link]
Ordell Deactivated User 1042 Posts 6/05	Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 10:38AM properM wrote: Hot sex is hot. And rough sex in porn is nothing new. Hell, the so-called "golden age" of porn was fixated heavily upon the muse of forced non-consensual sexual domination. Click to expand Uh huh. And how easy was it to get "Savage Fury" within weeks after it came out and all hell broke loose? [Link]
THICK_LOVA54 Senior Member Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade. 1441 Posts 5/10	Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 4:20PM zambi wrote: Prostitution = sex in exchange for money Porn = videotaped sex in exchange for money Click to expand Prostitution is the illegal exchange of sex for money. Not the same thing. Crimson Rain...What A Sight [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Sep 1 2010 : 12:24AM Ordell wrote: And how easy was it to get "Savage Fury" within weeks after it came out and all hell broke loose? Click to expand I remember *Savage Fury* being one of the first porn movies I was ever exposed to growing up. Great movie up until the ending. But I think maybe it damaged me for life. Now I can't get enough of that type of porn. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Sep 1 2010 : 6:41AM THICK_LOVA54 wrote: Prostitution is the illegal exchange of sex for money. Click to expand I thought that was called a date. Except for the "illegal" part. I guess it's only illegal when you just drop the bullshit and stop pretending you want something else. Edited by - randomprecision on 9/1/2010 6:44:38 AM [Link]
echoplex Member 197 Posts 9/08	Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 3:18AM gouman wrote: It all started after I watched the Gina Lynn Facial Abuse scene, then it progressed to seeking out videos where chicks are deep throating literally until they gag and vomit (I do sometimes find the vomiting gross, but not always, it just depends)...anyway, now I'm regularly seeking similar content in addition to the usual footjob, foot worship, facial, and gonzo sex scenes, where the guy/girl sub/dom relationship is a more even. At first I felt kind of bad for enjoying it, well that's not true. I tried to convince myself that I felt bad. The truth is I like watching women get dominated and "abused" on video; it gets me off and makes me laugh sometimes too. I have yet to mimic the content in my sex life (although my girl is willing to try the extreme deep throat and vomit thing). I'm just wondering what the rest of the world thinks of the proliferation of such content. Sights are popping up left and right that serve this niche. It seems like there is no dearth of girls willing to do such scenes either. The scenes appear to be getting harder and harder too. Even, companies like Brazzer's have something to offer the niche. Is the "abuse", humiliation concept here to stay? Is it the wave of the future? Are guys like me sick for getting off on it? I suppose as long as the girls are willing to continue to subject themselves to such treatment, it doesn't violate censorship laws, and people are buying -- producers will keep producing. As for me, I will certainly keep watching. Click to expand I'm the same way, almost. When I started watching it at first I didn't feel bad, which was several years back. Now I do feel bad, but I still enjoy it. This to a point that I'm almost split personality about it, I partly feel bad knowing how cruel, degrading, and just plain wrong and evil it is, but I'm addicted to seeking more. Now, like you said, it feels like it's become more common in porn and more popular in general, a part of me is disturbed by this, while the other part revels in it. Sometimes I find myself promoting and encourage the idea of gagging and face fucking girlfriends to the non porn-oriented general public. Other times I'll read of a guy bragging about how he likes it or how "he pinches his girl's nose shut while he does it", and I feel obligated to debate about how morally corrupt and pitiful it is. Then I read posts by girls talking about how they "put up with it", or their distressed concern over why their guy is pushing their head down and making them gag when they go to give them a blowjob, it puts a smile on my face, I love the idea that some young woman out there just trying to please is getting gagged and facefucked because her boyfriend saw it in porn and wanted to do it, some subject to it as young as ages like 15! How depraved is it to revel in that fact? Of course, the other side feels those scumbags deserve their cocks chopped off and can't be cured of their lack of respect for women, as porn has ruined their sense of masculinity. Do I see abusive and humiliating porn as here to stay? With the general downfall of society I feel is occurring, yes. Is it the future? Probably. Do I consider myself sick for getting off on it? Yes. Am I ready to care? Just like everyone else, nope. I find it fascinating how trends like these seem to be permeating society, even to the extent that they have, as where no such thing was generally imagined not long before porn found it's place on the web, such interests were developed and more recently became unwilling free and spoon fed to the masses. Ultimately I would be for ending abusive, degrading, even objectifying porn, but since it's not a feasible idea at this point, might as well join em'. Hows that for being torn? Edited by - echoplex on 9/16/2010 3:53:08 AM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 8:48AM I hope you don't beat yourself up too much for being "torn." It's human nature, really, to be excited, fascinated, and even aroused by things that we also find deplorable or atrocious. It's the same thing operating when we pass a bad accident on the highway and catch ourselves looking to see if there's any blood or bodies. Anatomically, the human brain is a collection of all of its previous evolutionary states. For example, the amygdala represents the simple nerve center that runs the life support system that at one point, when our ancestors were rudimentary life forms, was all there was. It's still there, still functioning, as are all the other parts that brains developed as they were called upon to do more and more to survive. The primitive sexual urges are still there too, including ones that ally violence to erotic arousal. Many animals still "abuse" the females they mate with. The human brain is now much more complex, and healthy people are able to understand and subjugate their more primitive responses to stimuli. But that doesn't mean that they don't have those responses, or that it is a sign of anything particularly abnormal about being aroused by visual stimuli of "rough sex" or even abuse, as long as one can still limit their arousal to the realm of sexual fantasy or, if you will, to make believe. The problem arises with those disturbed, unbalanced, or developmentally defective individuals who can't or won't relegate those primitive connections between sex and violence to fantasy and choose or are compelled to act upon them. [Link]
echoplex Member 197 Posts 9/08	Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 3:09PM duefuss wrote: I hope you don't beat yourself up too much for being "torn." It's human nature, really, to be excited, fascinated, and even aroused by things that we also find deplorable or atrocious. It's the same thing operating when we pass a bad accident on the highway and catch ourselves looking to see if there's any blood or bodies. Anatomically, the human brain is a collection of all of its previous evolutionary states. For example, the amygdala represents the simple nerve center that runs the life support system that at one point, when our ancestors were rudimentary life forms, was all there was. It's still there, still functioning, as are all the other parts that brains developed as they were called upon to do more and more to survive. The primitive sexual urges are still there too, including ones that ally violence to erotic arousal. Many animals still "abuse" the females they mate with. The human brain is now much more complex, and healthy people are able to understand and subjugate their more primitive responses to stimuli. But that doesn't mean that they don't have those responses, or that it is a sign of anything particularly abnormal about being aroused by visual stimuli of "rough sex" or even abuse, as long as one can still limit their arousal to the realm of sexual fantasy or, if you will, to make believe. The problem arises with those disturbed, unbalanced, or developmentally defective individuals who can't or won't relegate those primitive connections between sex and violence to fantasy and choose or are compelled to act upon them. Click to expand Whether there's a scientific theory behind it, or not. The better part of my humanity tells me that the abuse, degradation or humiliation of any person is just senseless and wrong, despite what pleasures I may be able to derive from it. And of course, acting as a parasite to such things is an even worse quality. If anything it's more a step back in our evolution. I think that most people will automatically feel this way. Is abnormal to our nature? Maybe not. Wrong? I think so. I never really understood how one relegates something to "fantasy", when what they're getting off to is watching someone being abused. IMO, the only fantasy element that stems from porn is when a person fantasizes of acting on something themselves. I've never saw watching porn, as fantasy. You know, I'm usually thinking "I hope everybody is alright", when I drive by the scene of a crash. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 4:28PM echoplex wrote: Whether there's a scientific theory behind it, or not. The better part of my humanity tells me that the abuse, degradation or humiliation of any person is just senseless and wrong, despite what pleasures I may be able to derive from it. And of course, acting as a parasite to such things is an even worse quality. If anything it's more a step back in our evolution. I think that most people will automatically feel this way. Is abnormal to our nature? Maybe not. Wrong? I think so. I never really understood how one relegates something to "fantasy", when what they're getting off to is watching someone being abused. IMO, the only fantasy element that stems from porn is when a person fantasizes of acting on something themselves. I've never saw watching porn, as fantasy. You know, I'm usually thinking "I hope everybody is alright", when I drive by the scene of a crash. Click to expand So am I, as are most people, but they are also probably scolding themselves for looking to see how bad the crash was and if there's and blood and gore. Like I said, it's human nature. One usually relegates something like BDSM or abuse to fantasy because that's all it is: mental or visual stimulation derived from prurient acts THAT AREN'T REAL. One of the conditions of any fantasy is that it isn't actually what it appears to be. We can only be comfortable, as a rule, with being vicariously aroused if we understand, as in the case of rough or abusive sex, that no one is really being hurt and that all are willing participants. The instant it becomes too real for us or there's the suspicion that we're watching real abuse, it stops being arousing. It's the same with ANY entertainment: if Matt Damon was on the screen REALLY killing people we'd be horrified and outraged by it, not entertained. Because we know it's not real we can put aside that it isn't, sit back, and be entertained by it. We can choose to forget that it's actors we're watching, that we're sitiing in a theater with a huge cup of tasteless popcorn that we've spent enough on to buy a silo full of the stuff. But,if you can't realize that actual abuse or rape is totally different from some harmless role playing to try spicing up sex a little, if you are becoming aroused by ACTUAL abuse, by the real harm of others, then we are no longer even talking about fantasy, but about an emotional problem that requires professional medical intervention before it gets any worse, as it surely will without it. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 5:09PM ^ It seems that the previous two posters are saying they enjoy the idea of it being actual abuse, but feel bad for seeking it out. Going back to the car crash analogy, it's kinda like driving around looking for crashes as opposed to just stumbling across them every now and again and cursing yourself for rubbernecking. I must say, while I found these two posts deeply disturbing, I appreciate the honesty of it all. Most people would either say "oh, it's just fantasy, get over it," and take no responsibility whatsoever, or they would say the woman got paid and is an adult, and take no responsibility whatsoever. [Link]

Author

Post

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 4:14PM

^
That might have made you look really cool if you hadn't quoted the entire HUGE post directly above your post.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 4:14:47 PM

[Link]

Bigscotsman27
Member

464 Posts
9/09

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 4:40PM

^
Doh!

[Link]

TwoHeadedBoy
Member

I will take you and leave you alone
46 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 6:55PM

RandomPrecision wrote:
If the industry is going to make this kind of content at all (Meaning the kind of content that involves anything rough or anything that could even accidentally be misinterpreted), it's going to have to make sure there is no doubt at all about consent. I'm not going to have people shaming me because I watched a rough sex video and it turns out the girl was tricked into it by some guy I've never heard of and I don't find out about it until 3 years later or something. It just shouldn't happen in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder if it was consensual. Don't blame people for buying something that is there. Blame the people who created it. Whether it's porn or something else, if it's a great product, you don't credit the customer. You credit the company that made it. If it's a bad (or even dangerous) product you take your beef to the company that put it on the shelf.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/23/2010 3:10:06 PM
Click to expand

If you found out three years later, I don't think there's any reason to feel any shame at all. The only problem I can see from a consumer point of view would be getting any enjoyment out of that scene knowing that there was actually no consent. I tend to re-watch a lot of my favourite scenes, and the thought of physically and mentally getting off on someone else's misery is personally not a place I'm willing to go.
Whether or not they press charges afterwards doesn't take back what already happened. It can only take a step towards making sure it doesn't happen again. Some people on this thread seemed to get off on knowing their fantasies of abuse have turned in to reality, and while their viewing these old scenes may not affect the woman directly, I believe it still fuels the negative stereotype of misogyny in our society, a stereotype I would hope all men would be looking to put behind us.
Shifting the blame on to producers or consumers entirely is both non-productive and childish. What harm can it do as a consumer to simply take a stand for what you believe in? I can only try to control what little impact I do have on whether scenes like this keep getting made. On trying to make sure none of the money these guys are making is mine. On what producers think about when or if they view this thread. That's my place in the big picture. Whether it makes any difference in the end or not is irrelevant. I only hope there are other people out there that feel the same.

[Link]

Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 23 2010 : 9:01PM

I'm not blaming the people who enjoy this kind of scene for the occurence of the scene; I'm just saying that they're sick, twisted fucks and I hope they don't live in my neighborhood.
The nice thing about free speech is that other people are free to say what they like and I'm free to say that I think they need help. They're free to tell me to fuck off. I'm free to make fun of them, etc.
Belief in free speech is a commitment to open exchange and spirited debate. It doesn't require acceptance of the (ludicrious) proposition that every opinion, belief, taste, or activity is as good/valid/healthy/laudable as every other one -- quite the opposite.
-------------
Edited by - bob on 8/23/2010 9:03:20 PM

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 12:39AM

I've got news for you. They do.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 1:41AM

^^^
I try to stay optimistic even in the face of adversity.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 1:57AM

You say this despite all the evidence to the contrary presented by Ginger Lee, Kimi and other posters here based on actual experience or factual cases. Reality is a stubborn thing.
Anyways, this thread was derailed when several posters came on and said they were into watching women really being abused past their agreed limits. They seemed to be the ones with difficulty seperating reality and fantasy. Since then, all the poster who initally stated it was 'better when they didn't know what was going to happen to them' have rather dishonestly claimed that it's all 'fantasy.' But what they were praising was when they thought it wasn't fantasy. You have similarly dodged the issue.
Others then claimed that if real abuse ever happened the performers would only need complain and the cops would be all over the producers, so several posters came forward with some similar real-life, not theoretical, experiences to refute that claim.
My initial post was far from hostile to the OP, I even recommended some of the directors I admire who shoot rough sex.
It would be great if we could have a conversation on here about S/M or rough sex videos without it devolving into a debate about consent, but then posters would have to refrain from braying like drunk frat boys about getting off on real life pain and distress.
Edited by - BlackSix on 8/24/2010 2:46:39 AM

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:05AM

^How have I dodged the issue?

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:06AM

You said 'it's all fantasy' even though the posters said what got them off was the belief that what they were watching wasn't fantasy.

[Link]

realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:11AM

Isn't the whole point of fantasy believing something to be true when it isn't?

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:16AM

As you have implied yourself, not being to tell the difference between reality and fantasy is problematic. You don't think there's any difference between an age-play scene and actual CP?

Edited by - BlackSix on 8/24/2010 3:17:03 AM

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 24 2010 : 3:29AM

Going by many of the threads on this forum, there are people here who can't distinguish between age-play and real-life CP. I think these are probably the same people who can't distinguish between acting and reality. It looks like the people who are opposed to it are the ones who have the problem distinguishing.

[Link]

web_jock
Member

21 Posts
8/10

Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 7:36PM

I too happen to be a new fan of the Female Abuse Niche. For some reason, I like to see the following:
Women getting slapped and/or punched in the face by men.
Women getting spit on in the face by men.
Women licking men's asses.
(I have a couple of videos that feature guys punching women in their bellies!)
Women swallowing men's underwear.
Women sucking on men's feet and toes.
Men pissing all over women.
Men dunking women's heads in the toilet and making the women lick the toilet bowls.
Men sqeezing, slapping and punching women on their boobs.
Men wiping their asses on women's boobs and/or faces.
I just laugh when I see it, even though many people - including myself - see me as demented and sick. I know that one of the classic flicks for the Female Abuse genre of porn is called COCKTAILS 2 starring Taylor St. Claire. Does anyone know where I can find COCKTAILS 2 so that I can buy it? Also, there was another porn called BOTTOMS UP 2, which was made by Annabolic, or something like that. Some of the scenes featured guys shoving girl's heads in toilets. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Does anyone know where I can find this DVD? If anyone knows about how and where I can get COCKTAILS 2, BOTTOMS UP 2 and/or any other good porn flick featuring men dominating and/or abusing women and just plain treating them like dirt, then please let me know. In the meantime, I am going to check Brazzer's porn videos. (I like that one scene where that guy threw that bitch clear across the room and into the filing cabinet, where he later spanked her. That was funny!)

[Link]

tookie
Member

732 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 9:00PM

The reason is that you hate women. The reason for that is probably fear.

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 9:03PM

I have mentioned here and elsewhere about porn being fantasy, that prople are often aroused by things, like rough sex and even abuse of women that they would not dream of ever actually doing, especially to someone they loved enough to be intimate with.
Sometimes, those aroused by abuse and rape fantasies are not content with imagination and abuse porn becomes, for them, a catalyst and a vindication for actual abuse. These people are a sick and criminal minority, and, although porn did not make them what they are, it does incite them. I believe the time is coming when this kind of porn will become unprofitable and so detrimental to the industry in these times of change that it will no longer be made. Personally, I hope so.
I think that someone like web_jock, who thinks it's actually FUNNY to watch women get pissed on, punched, demeaned and humiliated is on the verge, if not beyond it, of being one of those emotionally disturbed people for whom fantasy is no longer enough. He is one of those who, unlike many ADTers, give porn a bad name and regrettably provide ammunition to those who seek legal permission to tell every one else what they can read or watch or do in private.
As such, he and people like him, though they cetainly do not realize or intend it, are one of the greatest enemies now threatening pornography and, for that matter, the individual's ability to live as he pleases.

[Link]

skronker
Notable Legendary Icon

Scopophiliac
9780 Posts
9/02

Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 9:47PM

Do the guys who like to punch girls also like to be punched by girls? If the answer is no, then you're a sissy ass felch licker.

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 12:27AM

I don't get the impression that web_jock is actually serious.

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zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 1:38AM

I remember when it was a big deal if a pornstar let one guy cum on their face
(and I'm talking their cheek or chin) let alone cum in their mouth. And they wanted extra money for that of course. This was like 1980s. Now you got girls doing all kinds of crazy stuff -- blowbangs, bukkakes, gokkun, squirting (which is really pissing), extreme gagging, spitting, and the list goes on. Jeez if bestiality was legal I'd imagine they'd have no problem finding girls willing to do that also (e.g. proven by foreign bestiality movies). I guess you can thank the flood of young women willing to do porn nowadays and the increasing lack of self-esteem of among them.
Personally I find watching some of this stuff like gagging and gokkun too much and too disgusting for my taste. Initially it has some shock value but that gets old after the first couple of these you see. Gangbangs and bukkakes are ok but get kinda boring after a while also. That's why I dig the Meathole stuff. Not the slapping and spitting part but the mental stuff. Watching a girl get physically used and abused like a test dummy is not very erotic, but watching her being submissive and broken down emotionally has some edge to it and you get to see the real them. It also makes you realize doing porn is not fun like performers pretend.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 1:45AM

Yes. You're free to use your right to free speech to protest free speech. But you know the only people who really benefit from this are the people who want to control all speech and not just the kind you think is sick.
I'm just saying you should be aware that all this stuff is probably coming from the usual suspects. Divide and conquer. Remember? At the end of the day, we'll all be sitting here debating what happened to all the porn. And I won't be the guy you can blame for condemning someone else's masturbatory habits.
Edited by - randomprecision on 8/26/2010 1:47:33 AM

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THICK_LOVA54
Senior Member

Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade.
1441 Posts
5/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 2:54AM

Some of what is being said here is hard to swallow Let me ask this, would you care if someone was doing this type of stuff to your mother, sister, aunt, etc.?
Would it be amusing then? What if your friends and co-workers watched it? Would it be understandable for them to watch and enjoy it then?
Crimson Rain...What A Sight

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:09AM

^Makes absolutely no sense.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:14AM

No, you really don't get it.
Isn't what we say supposed to disclose who we are and what we believe in?
I'm not protesting free speech. I'm taking issue with the content of some speech and the consequent character of some speakers. I'm listening to the speech of others and responding -- that's the give and take of communication. It ain't always rosey and polite. Satire and derision have always counted as legitimate modes speech.
One of the prime justifications for free speech is that it allows people have it out in a civilized manner. Hopefully, the best ideas (whoever has them) win out in public opinion. I have no desire to to censor anybody or control anybody. Just because I may think that someone needs mental help doesn't mean that I'd ever arrogate to myself the power to commit them -- I wouldn't if I could. In my view, some ideas are dangerous. But I don't propose to suppress them; I propose to denounce them.
Think of me as a vocificerous participant in the marketplace of the mind.

[Link]

Absur
Member

24 Posts
10/04

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:20AM

For some girls it is a sexual turn ON tho.

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THICK_LOVA54
Senior Member

Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade.
1441 Posts
5/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:21AM

How does it make no sense? Answer the question.
Crimson Rain...What A Sight

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:29AM

^The question doesn't make sense because I wouldn't want a member of my family doing porn at all. Thus, it wouldn't matter what kind of porn they were doing. I wouldn't like it regardless. It also has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Link]

THICK_LOVA54
Senior Member

Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade.
1441 Posts
5/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:34AM

So it makes perfect sense. If they were doing "any" porn, so would'nt this type of porn be even more hurtful? If it's not ok for me to watch your mother or sister do it, why is it ok to watch these woman have it done to them? Also this discussion was already away from the original topic before I said anything.
Crimson Rain...What A Sight
Edited by - THICK_LOVA54 on 8/26/2010 3:37:11 AM

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:38AM

You're right about the last sentence. But when I'm enjoying porn, the last thing I'm trying to think about are my relatives.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 5:49AM

I don't know. Sometimes it's just a verbal fart that doesn't mean a whole lot other than you just felt like saying something odious.

I'm aware of that.

No real argument but there isn't a whole lot to be gained from having it out if by doing so, you fracture fragile alliances that are vital to a (or several) common interest(s). What are we trying to accomplish here?

That's all you really have to say. I know I took it out of context but it's the heart of it. You and I don't get to decide which ideas are dangerous. What we do is get all perturbed about things like this and unwittingly serve as the catalyst that propels the issue into the political arena. When it comes down to it, at best, we get to vote in some rigged poll (Rigged because it's specifically designed to produce the desired response) and say whether we think some ideas are dangerous or not. Which is a bulletproof question to ask if you want the majority of people to say yes. And then, our representatives (who don't really represent us at all) will decide for us which ones are and which ones aren't. You'll be fine, I guess, as long as your ideas are all perfectly in line with those of everyone who has any say at all. I don't have that much faith in anyone.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 1:41PM

No. When you took it out of context, you cut out the heart of it.
The heart of it was this:
"I have no desire to to censor anybody or control anybody. . . . In my view, some ideas are dangerous. But I don't propose to suppress them; I propose to denounce them."
I'm not combatting their right to engage in free speech. I'm using the content of my free speech to combat -- on the same level and in the same way -- the content of their free speech. I'm further making clear that I completely denounce the suppression of ideas for any reason. Bad ideas should be driven out by good ideas -- not by political action.
The rest of your post -- which seemingly argues that the exercise of free speech is ultimately pointless -- reflects a position that I don't subscribe to.

[Link]

zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 3:57PM

No I would not like one of my female relatives to a pornstar at all.
In fact there are a lot of things I would not like them to be ..
a guest on Jerry Springer, a homosexual/lesbian, a sleazy lawyer, a drug dealer,
a member of the Taliban, a republican, ... I could go on. But its not
my life its there life!!! In fact in Meatholes you find out several of
the girls admit their family members don't know what they do or don't
approve. So hell no I would not prefer my daughter be a pornstar or a whore.
But I'm not going to crucify them for choosing that lifestyle either. Life
is about choices. You can choose to go the hard route or the easy route.
Each has its pros and cons. It's not bad to wish your family choose the
route that leads to less trouble. But lets face it the route that leads
to easy money and less work will always have more stigma and troubles associated
with it, otherwise everyone would go that route. For women its prostitution and
porn, for men its typically drugs and other criminal activity.
But hey dont' play the holy than thou game here. If you watch porn you cannot
be a hypocrite. By buying porn you are subsidizing and encouraging these
girls to be prostitutes. Porn is prostitution. Let's not sugar coat it. You can
try to rationalize it by saying 'well I only watch the tasteful porn, not the
rough stuff". But that is bullshit, its still prostitution. It's like guys who
do a little weed or pot but don't think they are promoting drug use.

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Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 4:17PM

How delightful that homosexuals get lumped in with the taliban and Jerry Springer...

[Link]

Prom000
Member

Shakermaker
62 Posts
10/08

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 5:47PM

I like both.

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THICK_LOVA54
Senior Member

Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade.
1441 Posts
5/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 9:48PM

zambi wrote:
THICK_LOVA54 wrote:
Some of what is being said here is hard to swallow Let me ask this, would you care if someone was doing this type of stuff to your mother, sister, aunt, etc.?
Would it be amusing then? What if your friends and co-workers watched it? Would it be understandable for them to watch and enjoy it then?
Crimson Rain...What A Sight
Click to expand
No I would not like one of my female relatives to a pornstar at all.
In fact there are a lot of things I would not like them to be ..
a guest on Jerry Springer, a homosexual/lesbian, a sleazy lawyer, a drug dealer,
a member of the Taliban, a republican, ... I could go on. But its not
my life its there life!!! In fact in Meatholes you find out several of
the girls admit their family members don't know what they do or don't
approve. So hell no I would not prefer my daughter be a pornstar or a whore.
But I'm not going to crucify them for choosing that lifestyle either. Life
is about choices. You can choose to go the hard route or the easy route.
Each has its pros and cons. It's not bad to wish your family choose the
route that leads to less trouble. But lets face it the route that leads
to easy money and less work will always have more stigma and troubles associated
with it, otherwise everyone would go that route. For women its prostitution and
porn, for men its typically drugs and other criminal activity.
But hey dont' play the holy than thou game here. If you watch porn you cannot
be a hypocrite. By buying porn you are subsidizing and encouraging these
girls to be prostitutes. Porn is prostitution. Let's not sugar coat it. You can
try to rationalize it by saying 'well I only watch the tasteful porn, not the
rough stuff". But that is bullshit, its still prostitution. It's like guys who
do a little weed or pot but don't think they are promoting drug use.
Click to expand

I'm not playing a role or a game, i'm expressing my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I also believe porn and "this porn" are two different stories. Porn is sex and this is physical (possibly mental) abuse. Also, porn is not prostitution it is porn.
Crimson Rain...What A Sight
Edited by - THICK_LOVA54 on 8/26/2010 9:48:40 PM

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zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 11:31PM

Prostitution = sex in exchange for money
Porn = videotaped sex in exchange for money

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 5:07AM

My understanding is that the majority of Meatholes was a in fact 'pretend' and not 'real' at all. Why do you assume that you're seeing the 'real them' when they are 'broken down'? Is that because you think all porn is bad and 'dirty' so no one could actually enjoy doing it? Even if the scenes were real, is it much of an accomplishment to make a young woman with a history of abuse or drug problems break down and cry through verbal abuse? If so, pimps and abusive boyfriends all across the country are very accomplished.
I'm not sure that 'porn is not fun' is true of all porn, certainly the majority of it doesn't look like any fun, but why you would one need to realize this through something like Meatholes when it's clear in all the montonous, mechanical sex scenes?
BTW outside of the whole verbal abuse angle, I find Meatholes sex scenes full of this kind of bad sex, I'd rather watch people having good sex. Does anyone watch a poorly played sporting event so that they can 'realize' that the sport isn't fun, like the players pretend? Why do some viewers of porn so desperately want to see what the female performers 'really are'? I think the assumption of who these women 'really are' says more about the viewer than the performers.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 5:11AM

What's your point? I don't look down on prostitutes or porn performers. Neither do I look down on homosexuals, who you apparently think are morally equal to the Taliban.

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zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 7:43PM

Hey 'BlackSix' and 'THICK_LOVA54' you guys are desperately needed over in
the 'Men Getting "Abused" by Women' thread to defend those helpless men being
abused by women in porn. ;-)
https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=153936/forum_id=1/cat_id=1/reply=1851807#post1851807

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gouman
Deactivated User

I'm a sociopathic financial economist with a foot fetish.
30 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 28 2010 : 1:32AM

Wow, this topic has drifted pretty far from the OP.
Anyway, after quick scan; I have a few remarks:
1.) I don't care what anybody thinks, I still like watching women getting "abused" on camera. I don't really care if they knew what they were getting themselves into. First off, watching it is entertaining. Second, the girls literally went on the record with their consent by completing the scene and taking the money. Otherwise the scenes would likely be evidence of some kind of wrongdoing against the performer. If they didn't like the job they signed up for, well, frankly, I don't feel the least bit of sympathy. Join the club. At the end of the day, they followed through, and received a hefty premium for their labor.
2.) With respect to stigma related to being a sex worker. I agree, it exist. I agree, it's fucked up. I agree, it's unfair. However, any reasonable person should be (or should have been) aware that your line of work will affect the way people perceive you. It will affect the way people treat you also. Ideally, that would not be the case, but the reality is, it is the case. So while stories of juries giving less than favorable looks upon plaintiffs that are sex workers, and hearing that cops are taking their plights less seriously is clearly unfair -- I'm still wondering how the prospective sex worker, with half a brain, didn't realize the downside that accompanied the premium pay (and any other intangible benefits e.g. notoriety of fans, etc.) of being a sex worker.
The above said....I'm retiring from this thread. To any prospective responders, whether you agree or not, I concede defeat. No matter what you have to say, I concede, you're right -- I'm wrong. Also, you are smarter, better, and more popular on Adult DVD Talk than me.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Aug 28 2010 : 5:48PM

I've already posted in that thread, I've never thought women participating in consenual scenes need to be 'defended.' I posted several suggestions for rough sex videos already in this thread as well so don't try and pretend that I'm somehow against S/M or rough sex.

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Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Aug 28 2010 : 5:54PM

^ +1 for me. It's a tactic folks seem to employ to dismiss other peoples' concern for performers who are either unprepared, uninformed, or otherwise not enjoying the scene.

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properM
Member

80 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 4:33AM

Hot sex is hot. And rough sex in porn is nothing new. Hell, the so-called "golden age" of porn was fixated heavily upon the muse of forced non-consensual sexual domination.
Old porn was more intense thematically. In the visual sense, the sex captured on 70's film was much tamer - but this was due mostly to the technical limitations of the affordable (read: cheap) cameras and studio kit available at the time. If the Mitchell Brothers had access to cheap wide-angle HD cams I am sure they would have included a deepthroat-to-puking-over-plate-glass job or two in Behind the Green Door.
As for consensual and non-consensual sex, it seems like the scenes where I know the woman is enjoying the rough treatment (quite a few I guess) can make me feel the most guilty and queasy. This is usually because a guy will let loose if he knows a girl is into being submissive.
Scenes which are questionably consensual also turn me on immensely. This does bother me. It should.
Commerce on a large, industrial scale has a way of legitimating a lot of abhorrent conduct. Abusive treatment, even if this treatment is as a condition for payment, is still morally reprehensible, illegal, and girls that are mistreated need to know their rights. This is all in general.
I'm all for a bunch of girls teaming with lawyers and sueing the hell out of the scumbag production outfits that are operating. After that happens I know that there will still be enough perverted girls and porn companies on the up and up producing this kind of twisted, rowdy content that I occasionally like to indulge in.

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Ordell
Deactivated User

1042 Posts
6/05

Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 10:38AM

Uh huh. And how easy was it to get "Savage Fury" within weeks after it came out and all hell broke loose?

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THICK_LOVA54
Senior Member

Wielding a sword without fear of it is to be unworthy of the blade.
1441 Posts
5/10

Posted - Aug 31 2010 : 4:20PM

Prostitution is the illegal exchange of sex for money. Not the same thing.
Crimson Rain...What A Sight

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realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Sep 1 2010 : 12:24AM

I remember Savage Fury being one of the first porn movies I was ever exposed to growing up. Great movie up until the ending. But I think maybe it damaged me for life. Now I can't get enough of that type of porn.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Sep 1 2010 : 6:41AM

I thought that was called a date. Except for the "illegal" part. I guess it's only illegal when you just drop the bullshit and stop pretending you want something else.
Edited by - randomprecision on 9/1/2010 6:44:38 AM

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echoplex
Member

197 Posts
9/08

Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 3:18AM

gouman wrote:
It all started after I watched the Gina Lynn Facial Abuse scene, then it progressed to seeking out videos where chicks are deep throating literally until they gag and vomit (I do sometimes find the vomiting gross, but not always, it just depends)...anyway, now I'm regularly seeking similar content in addition to the usual footjob, foot worship, facial, and gonzo sex scenes, where the guy/girl sub/dom relationship is a more even.
At first I felt kind of bad for enjoying it, well that's not true. I tried to convince myself that I felt bad. The truth is I like watching women get dominated and "abused" on video; it gets me off and makes me laugh sometimes too. I have yet to mimic the content in my sex life (although my girl is willing to try the extreme deep throat and vomit thing).
I'm just wondering what the rest of the world thinks of the proliferation of such content. Sights are popping up left and right that serve this niche. It seems like there is no dearth of girls willing to do such scenes either. The scenes appear to be getting harder and harder too. Even, companies like Brazzer's have something to offer the niche.
Is the "abuse", humiliation concept here to stay? Is it the wave of the future? Are guys like me sick for getting off on it?
I suppose as long as the girls are willing to continue to subject themselves to such treatment, it doesn't violate censorship laws, and people are buying -- producers will keep producing. As for me, I will certainly keep watching.
Click to expand

I'm the same way, almost. When I started watching it at first I didn't feel bad, which was several years back. Now I do feel bad, but I still enjoy it. This to a point that I'm almost split personality about it, I partly feel bad knowing how cruel, degrading, and just plain wrong and evil it is, but I'm addicted to seeking more.
Now, like you said, it feels like it's become more common in porn and more popular in general, a part of me is disturbed by this, while the other part revels in it. Sometimes I find myself promoting and encourage the idea of gagging and face fucking girlfriends to the non porn-oriented general public. Other times I'll read of a guy bragging about how he likes it or how "he pinches his girl's nose shut while he does it", and I feel obligated to debate about how morally corrupt and pitiful it is. Then I read posts by girls talking about how they "put up with it", or their distressed concern over why their guy is pushing their head down and making them gag when they go to give them a blowjob, it puts a smile on my face, I love the idea that some young woman out there just trying to please is getting gagged and facefucked because her boyfriend saw it in porn and wanted to do it, some subject to it as young as ages like 15! How depraved is it to revel in that fact? Of course, the other side feels those scumbags deserve their cocks chopped off and can't be cured of their lack of respect for women, as porn has ruined their sense of masculinity.
Do I see abusive and humiliating porn as here to stay? With the general downfall of society I feel is occurring, yes. Is it the future? Probably. Do I consider myself sick for getting off on it? Yes. Am I ready to care? Just like everyone else, nope. I find it fascinating how trends like these seem to be permeating society, even to the extent that they have, as where no such thing was generally imagined not long before porn found it's place on the web, such interests were developed and more recently became unwilling free and spoon fed to the masses.
Ultimately I would be for ending abusive, degrading, even objectifying porn, but since it's not a feasible idea at this point, might as well join em'.
Hows that for being torn?
Edited by - echoplex on 9/16/2010 3:53:08 AM

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 8:48AM

I hope you don't beat yourself up too much for being "torn." It's human nature, really, to be excited, fascinated, and even aroused by things that we also find deplorable or atrocious. It's the same thing operating when we pass a bad accident on the highway and catch ourselves looking to see if there's any blood or bodies.
Anatomically, the human brain is a collection of all of its previous evolutionary states. For example, the amygdala represents the simple nerve center that runs the life support system that at one point, when our ancestors were rudimentary life forms, was all there was. It's still there, still functioning, as are all the other parts that brains developed as they were called upon to do more and more to survive. The primitive sexual urges are still there too, including ones that ally violence to erotic arousal. Many animals still "abuse" the females they mate with.
The human brain is now much more complex, and healthy people are able to understand and subjugate their more primitive responses to stimuli. But that doesn't mean that they don't have those responses, or that it is a sign of anything particularly abnormal about being aroused by visual stimuli of "rough sex" or even abuse, as long as one can still limit their arousal to the realm of sexual fantasy or, if you will, to make believe.
The problem arises with those disturbed, unbalanced, or developmentally defective individuals who can't or won't relegate those primitive connections between sex and violence to fantasy and choose or are compelled to act upon them.

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echoplex
Member

197 Posts
9/08

Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 3:09PM

duefuss wrote:
I hope you don't beat yourself up too much for being "torn." It's human nature, really, to be excited, fascinated, and even aroused by things that we also find deplorable or atrocious. It's the same thing operating when we pass a bad accident on the highway and catch ourselves looking to see if there's any blood or bodies.
Anatomically, the human brain is a collection of all of its previous evolutionary states. For example, the amygdala represents the simple nerve center that runs the life support system that at one point, when our ancestors were rudimentary life forms, was all there was. It's still there, still functioning, as are all the other parts that brains developed as they were called upon to do more and more to survive. The primitive sexual urges are still there too, including ones that ally violence to erotic arousal. Many animals still "abuse" the females they mate with.
The human brain is now much more complex, and healthy people are able to understand and subjugate their more primitive responses to stimuli. But that doesn't mean that they don't have those responses, or that it is a sign of anything particularly abnormal about being aroused by visual stimuli of "rough sex" or even abuse, as long as one can still limit their arousal to the realm of sexual fantasy or, if you will, to make believe.
The problem arises with those disturbed, unbalanced, or developmentally defective individuals who can't or won't relegate those primitive connections between sex and violence to fantasy and choose or are compelled to act upon them.
Click to expand

Whether there's a scientific theory behind it, or not. The better part of my humanity tells me that the abuse, degradation or humiliation of any person is just senseless and wrong, despite what pleasures I may be able to derive from it. And of course, acting as a parasite to such things is an even worse quality. If anything it's more a step back in our evolution. I think that most people will automatically feel this way. Is abnormal to our nature? Maybe not. Wrong? I think so.
I never really understood how one relegates something to "fantasy", when what they're getting off to is watching someone being abused. IMO, the only fantasy element that stems from porn is when a person fantasizes of acting on something themselves. I've never saw watching porn, as fantasy.
You know, I'm usually thinking "I hope everybody is alright", when I drive by the scene of a crash.

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 4:28PM

echoplex wrote:
Whether there's a scientific theory behind it, or not. The better part of my humanity tells me that the abuse, degradation or humiliation of any person is just senseless and wrong, despite what pleasures I may be able to derive from it. And of course, acting as a parasite to such things is an even worse quality. If anything it's more a step back in our evolution. I think that most people will automatically feel this way. Is abnormal to our nature? Maybe not. Wrong? I think so.
I never really understood how one relegates something to "fantasy", when what they're getting off to is watching someone being abused. IMO, the only fantasy element that stems from porn is when a person fantasizes of acting on something themselves. I've never saw watching porn, as fantasy.
You know, I'm usually thinking "I hope everybody is alright", when I drive by the scene of a crash.
Click to expand
So am I, as are most people, but they are also probably scolding themselves for looking to see how bad the crash was and if there's and blood and gore. Like I said, it's human nature.
One usually relegates something like BDSM or abuse to fantasy because that's all it is: mental or visual stimulation derived from prurient acts THAT AREN'T REAL. One of the conditions of any fantasy is that it isn't actually what it appears to be. We can only be comfortable, as a rule, with being vicariously aroused if we understand, as in the case of rough or abusive sex, that no one is really being hurt and that all are willing participants. The instant it becomes too real for us or there's the suspicion that we're watching real abuse, it stops being arousing.
It's the same with ANY entertainment: if Matt Damon was on the screen REALLY killing people we'd be horrified and outraged by it, not entertained. Because we know it's not real we can put aside that it isn't, sit back, and be entertained by it. We can choose to forget that it's actors we're watching, that we're sitiing in a theater with a huge cup of tasteless popcorn that we've spent enough on to buy a silo full of the stuff.
But,if you can't realize that actual abuse or rape is totally different from some harmless role playing to try spicing up sex a little, if you are becoming aroused by ACTUAL abuse, by the real harm of others, then we are no longer even talking about fantasy, but about an emotional problem that requires professional medical intervention before it gets any worse, as it surely will without it.

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Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Sep 16 2010 : 5:09PM

^ It seems that the previous two posters are saying they enjoy the idea of it being actual abuse, but feel bad for seeking it out. Going back to the car crash analogy, it's kinda like driving around looking for crashes as opposed to just stumbling across them every now and again and cursing yourself for rubbernecking.
I must say, while I found these two posts deeply disturbing, I appreciate the honesty of it all. Most people would either say "oh, it's just fantasy, get over it," and take no responsibility whatsoever, or they would say the woman got paid and is an adult, and take no responsibility whatsoever.

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