I wouldn´t mind to keep the IR tag but I understand the concerns due to what actually upsets (part of) the country. Thus it is a symbolic step or maybe even more, showing atiitude.
On the other hand we have threads about black, asians, latina, maghrebine pornstars (just to name some)....I wouldn´t like to lock them, please don´t!
there are a lot of sites made by black guys that are about sex with white women (like the ones on Dogfartnetwork). Because there are black men who like white women and white women who love black men (and white men who like black women, and black women who like white men). The desire to see that kind of scene isn't necessarily tie to racism. I like to see that and I'm not a racist. I get that the term is controversial and there are no white and black races, but if they remove it they should replace it with something else. like BW (black/white) or something like that.
Maybe I am missing something but I don't see what is racist about tagging a scene between a black man and a white woman or a white man and a black woman as IR(Interracial). Is there any other term or way to describe it that would do the exact same thing?
Well, personally I can see both sides of this argument, and for the record, I do not think that everyone who enjoys watching "interracial" porn must necessarily be a racist. For some, the color contrast can be a purely visual preference - and that's fine as far as I'm concerned. Some people like curvy girls, some people like trans women, and some people like to watch black dudes fucking white women. It's fine. Nobody is saying you can't like that and nobody is saying you can't do that. However, we would be fools to pretend that there is no "race play" at work here, because there is a lot of history built into the concept of "interracial" sexual relations and a lot of implicit power dynamics that still survive today.
The existence of a separate "interracial" genre is an inherently racist concept because it treats sex between performers (and people in general) of different races as a taboo, and on top of that it does tend to reinforce racial stereotypes about black people. (That has gotten a lot better in recent years, but the interracial porn of the '90s and '00s was absolutely dominated by classic "gangsta" stereotypes.)
Additionally, the knock-on effect it has on the way the industry treats black performers is profound and extensive. This has been well-discussed elsewhere, but the short version is that it tends to segregate black performers away from the mainstream sites and video lines... especially in the case of black female performers, who are excluded from both the majority of the mainstream sites as well as the specific "interracial" sites, because those are only for black men having sex with white women.
While I can understand the frustration for people who simply enjoy watching this type of porn as a visual preference, because it will probably be a lot harder now to find it with search filters (at least using this particular database, though I doubt they'll be the last), I think it's a good move overall. I don't know much about the guys who run IAFD, but given the current political climate, I did kind of expect this to happen. I'm really curious to see what happens now to places like Blacked, Dogfart, BlackAmbush (cue exaggerated audible groan), etc.
...
(Seriously guys, "BlackAmbush"? That's a little on the nose, don't you think?)
Edited by - evilpineapples on 6/8/2020 7:25:54 PM
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suavehuman Deactivated User
301 Posts 1/20
Posted - Jun 8 2020 : 7:35PM
Can you tell me why all the scenes between say an asian man and a black woman or a latino man and an asian woman aren't listed under IR? See there's your problem.
What if I want to find a movie with only black men white women? What's next? removing BBW, Trans, MILF tag? Isn't this how you identify the type of porn so you can buy it or avoid it?
I think this is going to be a big thing in the industry from now on. I suspect the days of sites like Blacked for instance may be numbered. A few years from now you are almost certainly not going to get scenes that are described as interracial. There will just be porn, and the racial identity of the performers won't be highlighted in any way.
As someone who has always been somewhat bemused by the need for this sub-genre of porn - I mean, what difference does it make what skin tone the performers have - I'm not surprised current events are having an influence.
Couldn't you ask the same question when it comes to hair color? We have different categories for blonde's, brunettes, and redheads. People just like certain physical characteristics. I think that videos that highlight the interacial aspect of the scenes will still exist to some capacity because a lot of people enjoy that type of porn.
It wasn't a decision we made lightly. We're not keen on removing functionality from the site and, whether or not we like it, we've alienated a segment of our visitors.
We don't think that all black-on-white pairings are steeped in racism, and we don't think people who like that porn are automatically racists. I've heard from black men today saying they were sad because they like (or would like) fucking white women, and they felt represented when they watched those scenes.
So I understand the loss and that finding the info you want is harder now. But it can still be found, by treating all performers equally and not singling some out because of the color of the skin of their sex partner. (We didn't tag the black men with IR, we tagged the white female performers. And only the white performers. Not the Asian performers, and not the Latinx performers...)
But the data can still be found - and even richer information, too, in a way - as the way to find it is to scroll thru the "Scene Pairings" tab - we've got pictures of over 114k performers, so it's not a hard job to see skin color of your favorite performers' scene partners... and you can see Asian faces and Latinx faces too - and you couldn't find that info with a checkbox.
I've generally been of the opinion that the problem with the "interracial" tag is that it almost explicitly only referred to BM/WF pairings and not anything else. Which is part of the reason I'm not sad to see it disappear. But I don't think that simply labeling that a scene has a black male performer in it should be seen as controversial if you do it with other races as well. And to the idea that the the data is "still there", it is technically, but you've removed the data from the main page for actresses and made it harder to get to, which isn't necessarily remedied by making it "richer information". I'm just not sure that making it harder to see scenes with performers that look like me is an absolute step towards progress.
Well, that's just it - we don't do it with other races as well - no one does. Interracial is a specific industry term which means Black Male on White Female. (The English definition is much broader, obviously... but the porn definition is very narrow.)We can't remove all the data from the database, so the data is still there. A black performer did fuck a white performer; we can't delete that info - but we can stop categorizing it as noteworthy. That's our point.
You want to see all the black guys Sarah Vandella has banged? Instead of clicking the IR filter and then click thru to each title to see who her scene partner was; you can just click on her "scene pairings" and start scrolling - you'll see a lot of black faces... but you'll also see white faces and all other colors of the rainbow. That's what I mean when I say "richer information" - you see the whole pie.
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MissingDLL Deactivated User
123 Posts 5/20
Posted - Jun 9 2020 : 12:09AM
IR isnt going anywhere until consumers stop seeing sex with black guy any different than sex with a white guy. Even if companies stop profiting from IR directly for a brief period it will be back soon once things cool down. If there is demand there is supply.
I don't think anyone is calling for an end of BM/WF porn - is the suggestion then that the industry can only produce content featuring same race performers? Of course not. There's a certain discomfort how the movies are made and marketed and that people would like to see changed (cf. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-rise-of-racist-porn ) and there's a disparity in pay for black performers along with white performers being able to charge a premium for working with black performers.
So no one is calling for a moratorium on BM/WF movies - we're just not drawing attention to them and we're no longer categorizing a white women's sexual pairing with a black man as a novelty sex act. It's just a sex act.
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jcdenton Deactivated User
40 Posts 3/20
Posted - Jun 9 2020 : 5:15AM
I don't see what could be potentially racist about wanting to watch movies with a black man and white woman or vice versa. I personally believe people are exaggerating with this stuff and it's part of the recent ''cancel culture''' if you will.
If I want to watch an IR movie, wouldn't it be easier to have the tag?
People need to get a grip.
Edited by - jcdenton on 6/9/2020 5:17:29 AM
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jun 9 2020 : 5:25AM
No way, black men fucking white women is a porn niche that's way too popular - and lucrative - for porn producers to stop doing it. Blacked might have to change its name (which I actually agree with), but black men fucking white women will still be their thing. Part of the reason why Blacked is taking so much shit right now is because of how massively popular and profitable the studio is.
I am a black man. I love seeing strong black men in bed with bueatiful women of all races. I also do not mind black women in bed with other races. Interracial sex is love. I do not like the road that this is heading.
indeed, tags are useful. I get that IR is controversial (because the term IS racist, let's be honest), but the solution of no tag looks a bit like the "no police" solution, an impulsive exaggeration. From an extreme to the opposite extreme. Iafd is database about porn after all, that means that the list of controversial things are endless. Porn itself to many people should be removed. Just change IR it with something that has to do with colors or ethnicities, instead of races if you want to look PC. If I want to see a blonde woman, a brunette, a redhead there are tags for this.
You could start. It would make things easier for all of us. I think that's better than removing it. A lot of us don't want to see the rainbow. A lot of these pornstars shoot hundreds of scenes. Not everybody wants to shift through all those videos to find what they're looking for. What if I want to find new interracial scenes? It's going to be pretty difficult since most porn consists of white/white stuff. What's the point in giving somebody a whole pie if they're only asking for a slice? This "richer information" isn't useful to a lot of people.
Click to expand
Edited by - Porntony Lovertano on 6/9/2020 6:21:47 AM
Edited by - Porntony Lovertano on 6/9/2020 6:22:48 AM
Edited by - Porntony Lovertano on 6/9/2020 6:23:18 AM
@Jef IAFD I have sent you an e-mail under my real name. The reality is most black men want to see IR porn. We want to imagine ourselves in that "superhero" postition, as like most men want to see themselves in porn. Removing the tag would harm black male enjoyment and possible black male employment in porn the most. Also it would give an excuse for racist actressess NOT to work with black men under the pretence of being "colour blind".
This is a backward negative step. Please reconsider. Your system is currently fine as it is. :-)
I'd imagine IAFD will argue that it won't support tags that are associated with marginalized people for the sake of maintaining your colourist convenience.
leatherface wrote:We actually don't have tags for hair color in performer filmographies. There's no BRUN tag to indicate someone had sex with a brunette in a given title.
We don't buy into the "porn is such a outlaw culture it deserves no protections" line of thinking. The people who make porn deserve no less protection on the job as do other mainstream actors or models. And they deserve to be treated with respect. A lot of language surrounding porn is derogatory. But to say "it's just porn" cheapens the whole endeavor of creating content designed to get you off.
If the industry gets behind a different nomenclature for referring to these types of movies that is agreeable to all parties, there's no reason we wouldn't implement such a thing; and we'd be happy to participate in discussions about what those terms should be. But for now, the current nomenclature is problematic, so we pulled it down.
I meant that tags like that exist in general and people use it because tags are very useful. Blonde, brunette, redhead are widely used tags. Onestly if there's a was IAFD can improve, is that of adding tags to make easier to search for hair color, age, body type, orientation (there were a way to select only straight actors... I suspect it was removed).I don't think I've said anywhere that porn workers don't need protection. But as said there are much better solutions like changing a tag instead of just removing it with the possibility for those who want to see that kind of scenes or movies to do it in a easy way. As said , a lot of people enjoy to watch black man and women having sex with white men and women. And that's true for both white and black persons, like RichardtheLionheart above.Considering that IAFD is a big source and a well known part of the industry, instead of waiting for someone else you could simply put a disclaimer like "we changed Interracial that is racist with this other thing", like BMWW (black man/white woman) or WMBW (white man/black woman) or whatever you guys think it's appropriate. That could also maybe help someone else to follow your example, instead of just removing a tag that, without a replacement will still be used by everybody else.
As Jeff has said though, there isn't a Black Male Latino Woman, Philipeano Male Black Woman, etc tags. Keeping this one tag, in any form, when no others exist continues to single out this one pairing. Changing the name on the tag doesn't change a thing, removal of the tag is the only way to see a change.
and it would be better if there were other tags!yes it does change everything actually. Because the problem is that "Interracial" suggests that black persons and white persons belong to different races. That's the only problem. The fact that black persons and white persons have sex is absolutely normal, a lot of us like to see that kind of scenes and it's not something that needs to be hidden or seen as horrible or shameful.
So I trust you can show us the e-mails you've sent to IAFD over the years requesting these other tags.If the black male and white female tag is singled out, by any name, it is in fact singling it out. Removing the IR tag doesn't make it hidden or horrible or shameful, it just lists it as a normal sex scene. In other words, it normalizes the scene.
Those in support of removing IR tags for black men are inadvertantly supporting the far-right racial puritans who despise IR porn and who routinely call it "beastiality", they are laughing in glee right now.
The fact is that 95% of porn is same race on same race. The pool of black talent is very small. Some actresses openly avoid working with black men throughout their careers, e.g. Tera Patrick, Jenna Jamesen and Jessica Jaymes, and I as a black man should have a right to boycott their scenes and careers if they are boycotting my race.
Also, Keisha Grey for example, is one of my favourite actresses and has got hundreds of scenes, with hundreds of performers, I know she has done IR but now I have to click on "Check Scene Pairings" scroll down hundreds of pictures at the hope of seeing a black face. The BLM movement is supposed to make things easier for black people, and people in general. This isn't. Porn is niche, fetish and fantasy based and will always be. Don't broke what aint broke buddy.
I await your e-mail replay @IAFD Jeff.
Edited by - RichardtheLionheart on 6/9/2020 1:37:27 PM
Like mentioned earlier. Removing the tag helps normalize things.
The IR tag might not have to be inherently bad but as it stands it is associated with with a culture of othering certain performers. If IR disappears from porn as a concept it doesn't make things easier for racist performers. As it stands they can use excuses such as "waiting for a bigger payday" to excuse not working with black performers. That won't work if they now show up on set and instead of expecting IR they expect a b/g scene and it then turns out to be with a black person. It would be a lot harder for them to explain their lack of "IR" scenes.
I complety support IAFD's decision. If there's a way to even the playing field in the future to help people find certain types of scenes with othering anyone that's a discussion worth having but as it stands the IR tag is helping in perpetuating a negative culture in the industry, so for now it has to go.
Just to add my two worthless cents, as a black man, I am a huge fan of interracial porn. I've never seen anything that was offensive to me. Questionable, for sure. But not offensive. And I've watched and enjoyed scenes where white women threw around the n-word. Looking at you, Blackzilla.
Having said that, I do see how problematic it is to only label porn scenes involving black stars with white stars as "interracial". And do call for a "normalizing" of industry standards.
But, instead of just getting rid of all tags related to race, how about making sure to tag the race of all pornstars involved? Not just black and white, but Asian, latinx, hell, even Middle-Eastern and Indian. I rather see porn go in that direction, not the "porn is porn, race doesn't matter" route. Because, in terms of porn niches, race DOES matter.
Who knows, maybe there's a small fanbase for those who love Latino Men/Asian Women porn.
The BLM movement is supposed to have black people treated as equals. How is normalizing black male and white female co-performances by removing tags associated with historical taboo and playing of racial stereotypes not conducive to racial equality?
Are you a black male by any chance? I doubt it. Porn is fantasy bro. Contrary to belief IR sex is not the norm in real life. Promiscious sex is not the norm in real life. Sex with big booty Instagram models is not the norm in real life. Everyone is not the same and a lot of porn is about fantasising about the "other". Being an "Other" is not a negative.
Also if a girl in the industry does not want to work with a black man that should be her choice. No one should be compelled to do what they do not want to (if that was what you were implying). But I should be abe to silently boycott her for her choice.
I find removing the IR tag equivilant to removing the lezonly tag from women who only do girl/girl.
IAFD having the IR note made it easier for people to filter what they want to see now its going to much harder and time consuming. Like I said BLM is about making things easier for black men and everyone. This does not do that.
User Deeluv22, another black porn user has just co-signed my point.
Edited by - RichardtheLionheart on 6/9/2020 2:49:29 PM
actually lately I'm not sending mails to Iafd because the last few times I did it with detailed corrections to the profiles of actors no one actually change them anymore, unlike in the past, and I don't know why. But I've asked many times to many sites for more tags. I think there are other discussions too where I said that. Tags are useful. The more tags the better, as simple as that. But I'm not sure what's your point.Does it mean that you think that the black guys who own Dogfartnetwork are racists? Gay porn is normal too. Are you saying that porn movies shouldn't say explicit way that the movie is about gay sex because to say that is homophobic?
^^^ I'm astonished that you would draw such a blatant false equivalency in asserting that removing the IR tag can be compared to removing a LezOnly tag from women who only do girl/girl. There is a stigma behind the IR tag that doesn't lie behind the LezOnly tag. I thought IAFD's rationale was made clear on that.
Because that's not "normalizing". It's just an excess of politically correctness. Sex between black and white persons is already normal. And there's nothing wrong in the ability to find what one is looking for, being "anal", "blonde", "redhead", "bbc", "gay" or sex between persons of different colors.
have you read what I wrote above? The word interracial is controversial? Sure: because it implies there are different races. But the fact that black and white people have sex and that people here (including black people) want to see it is absolutely normal. So the rational thing to do it is change the term it to something more appropriate, not just to remove the possibility to find that kind of content in a easy way.
^^^ I don't recall saying there was anything wrong in the ability in being able to search or something so I'm surprised you seem a little slow to understand I didn't assert that. Just because you see sex between black men and white women as normal (I do myself), it doesn't mean others do or are obliged to share that view.
Where is the false equivalence? I personaly do not like watching lezonly so if the tag is there I will know not to click on it. I personally enjoy watching IR so if the tag is there I will click on it. The LGBT communtiy has faced as much historical stigma as the black community. I think both IR, Gay and Lezporn has helped empower all communities.
I'm not in this discussion to with fight you, make you look bad or get a one man upship. I am here to state. As a black man, that the ir tag is good and necessary for the database. Interracial sex and promisious sex is not the norm in real life so porn fills that void for many of us.
I could see an avid user of the LGBT community or same sex porn lovers in general being annoyed at the lezonly tag being removed if b/g or solo was not their thing. This is exactly the same thing. You are not listening to the communtity that you are claiming to care about.
^^^^ I didn't say the word interracial is controversial, you are twisting my words to fit your narrative. I am alluding to the fact that the porn definition of IR only refers to BMWF. I think the tag should be used either to describe WMBF, AMWF or whatever permutation of interracial sex occurs or not at all.
?? I think that everybody here agreed that it's the word that is controversial (because it says that black and white are different races, basically), myself included! If it's not the word, what in the hell do you think are we talking about? lolIR refers to both black man white women and to black women and white men in my experience, the experience of someone who enjoy to watch that kind of content. And even if it referred just to black men and white women, what kind of difference could it make?
Posted - Jun 8 2020 : 3:58PM
