Porn is a dying industry. (page 21)

Author	Post
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 3:49PM LCF wrote: Mentality of this board? To share protected content is illegal it is a crime , to say otherwise is no different than to defend any other crime or illegal behaviour that damages the interests and or property of someone else Click to expand You left a post unanswered. Look up. [Link]
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 3:59PM Google using the string ("negative effects of file-sharing") resulted in me finding this (second hit) report: The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales An Empirical Analysis ( http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf ) Quoting the first paragraph of the conclusion part: "We find that file sharing has no statistically significant effect on purchases of the average album in our sample. Moreover, the estimates are of rather modest size when compared to the drastic reduction in sales in the music i ndustry. At most, file sharing can explain a tiny fraction of this decline. This result is plausible given that movies, software, and video games are actively downloaded, and yet these industries have continued to grow since the advent of file sharing. While a full explanation for the recent decline in record sales are beyond the scope of this analysis,several plausible candidates exist. These alternative factors include poor macroeconomic conditions, a reduction in the number of album releases, growing competition from other forms of entertainment such as video games and DVDs (video game graphics have improved and the price of DVD players or movies have sharply fallen), a reduction in music variety stemming from the large consolidation in radio along with the rise of independent promoter fees to gain airplay, and possibly a consumer backlash against record industry tactics. It is also important to note that a similar drop in record sales occurred in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and that record sales in the 1990s may have been abnormally high as individuals replaced older formats with CDs (Liebowitz, 2003)." [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 4:18PM ^ You know it is said that war helps technology , will you start one for its benefits? Or you just say that to commit a crime useful for you is not actually a crime whereas anybody committing anything against you is a criminal A study such as yours might find the benefits of Mafia who reinvest the money they earned with smuggling , robbery, extortion and so on into financial activities sometimes buying legitimate corporation. In the end you might find it valuable. except when you are a victim of it. [Link]
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - Apr 29 2013 : 6:15AM LCF wrote: ^ You know it is said that war helps technology , will you start one for its benefits? Or you just say that to commit a crime useful for you is not actually a crime whereas anybody committing anything against you is a criminal A study such as yours might find the benefits of Mafia who reinvest the money they earned with smuggling , robbery, extortion and so on into financial activities sometimes buying legitimate corporation. In the end you might find it valuable. except when you are a victim of it. Click to expand You left a post unanswered. Check the previous page. [Link]

pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 29 2013 : 9:24PM Tiger_y wrote: Google using the string ("negative effects of file-sharing") resulted in me finding this (second hit) report: The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales An Empirical Analysis ( http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf ) Click to expand Are you going to stop defending the indefensible? It's rather pathetic when you are stuck at using data that is nearly a decade old and doesn't even pertain to the subject at hand. Music file sharing is a very different thing than porn or mainstream movies. For one thing. The cost of production is much smaller for music than movies and the customer base is significantly larger. I'd also like to point out that tube and Torrent sites didn't even exist a decade ago and no one in porn was complaining of trouble with content thieves. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Apr 29 2013 : 10:47PM Tiger_y wrote: You left a post unanswered. Check the previous page. Click to expand MOD: Enough of that. You said it once, that was enough. [Link]
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - Apr 30 2013 : 2:43AM pat362 wrote: Are you going to stop defending the indefensible? Click to expand It's not so much about defending things as pointing out the obvious. pat362 wrote: It's rather pathetic when you are stuck at using data that is nearly a decade old and doesn't even pertain to the subject at hand. Click to expand Hey, I used one of the first Google hits I could find. I wonder who's stuck by the way... I haven't seen much data being presented by you guys. pat362 wrote: Music file sharing is a very different thing than porn or mainstream movies. Click to expand Elaborate further. pat362 wrote: For one thing. The cost of production is much smaller for music than movies and the customer base is significantly larger. I'd also like to point out that tube and Torrent sites didn't even exist a decade ago and no one in porn was complaining of trouble with content thieves. Click to expand Can you tell me exactly how much the production costs are for a porn movie? I've never seen any numbers... I've only heard of sales figures. [Link]
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - May 1 2013 : 6:36PM In the May issue of AVN Magazine, page 38, there is an interesting article on piracy written by Nate Glass of Takedown Piracy (anti-piracy service started in 2009) called "Do Pirates Age Out?". Any comments on it? The article can be read online by clicking this link: http://magazine-files.avn.com/avnmay2013/index.html [Link]
CRFlixxx Member 60 Posts 4/13	Posted - May 2 2013 : 6:13AM Biggest problem with that is....I can go to itunes or Amazon and buy a song for $0.99-1.50. Sometimes even buying whole albums for a dollar or a couple of bucks. Is there anyplace I can buy a porn movie download for under $10? Anywhere? Especially a new movie? I love New Wave Hookers 5, at this point around 15 years old. I just did a search, nobody's selling a download for less than around $15. And I mainly want the scene with Anna Malle and Jeanna Fine in the beginning. I should be able to get that for $2 or under somewhere and I can't unless I rent it then rip the rental stream. If old porn is overpriced, new porn is way overpriced. I finally got a yearly subscription to Brazzers once they offered me just under $80 for the year. I got the RealityKings upgrade when it was offered for $50 a year. I've also got a subscription to gaycreeps for a month for around $20, but was going to cancel the rebill after I saw all the scenes I liked in the first month. I didn't cancel because they offered me $8 a month to keep the subscription with no huge payment in advance. I've since downloaded maybe a few scenes but kept the subscription because that's a good price. We're living in a post-piracy world but you're still selling movies in your pre-piracy price point(try saying that 3 time fast :P. You can't charge $15 for a nearly 20 year old product when you can get it for free with a quick search. I know you can't give it away free, but you've got to sell it way cheaper than you currently are in order to make a dent with bootlegging. [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - May 2 2013 : 7:42AM Despite many performers' protestations to the contrary, porn is a modern manifestation of the world's oldest profession. The tube sites can no more kill porn than the town slut could put the brothel out of business. The challenge is developing a business model that will allow the world's oldest industry to thrive on the internet. The companies that have succeeded in the online world have delivered something of value beyond what was offered under the old business model. iPods are a better way to store your music collection than CDs (and $0.99 is a very reasonable price point). Similarly, Kindle is a good way to store books and carry them with you, though the "user interface" isn't nearly as good as paper. (Amazingly, book prices haven't dropped significantly, even though the cost of printing and retailing has been dramatically reduced.) Amazon's review system has been huge for me. A new business model for porn needs to consider the users' needs as much as the companies'. Besides the obvious desire to get off, I suspect most users want discretion and many crave human contact. I want the ability to download whatever scene I want from the same interface. It seems to me that someone needs to bring all the big producers to the same table, where they can agree to provide ALL of their content through a single user interface and at a reasonable price. I have started to read porn on Kindle, though I never bought erotica in the past. The discretion factor was key. I like to read a sample of a book before buying. In theory I could buy erotica in a bookstore, but I wasn't going to hang out in Barnes and Noble with a hard on. The Kindle lets me sample erotica in the privacy of my own home has turned me into an occasional reader of erotic literature. The cam sites seem to be addressing the need for human contact. Their business model seems to be, "Jerk off as much as you want for free, but if you want the performer's complete attention, you need to pay for that." The production quality for the cam sites sucks, and I think the porn companies may be able to find a way to meet the desire for human contact while continuing to offer a high quality product. What do you think porn users need or want? How might a business be able to satisfy that need or want? Edited to add bolding. Edited by - cumminglinguist on 5/2/2013 7:43:16 AM [Link]
Zy28 Deactivated User 251 Posts 2/12	Posted - May 2 2013 : 2:56PM von_swine wrote: filesharing is a shameful tactic. Click to expand Many would consider porn to be shameful in and of itself so that's probably why the industry can't really convince anyone that filesharing their content is morally wrong. Because most would say that business doesn't have the moral high ground to begin with. Edited by - Zy28 on 5/2/2013 2:58:47 PM [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 2 2013 : 3:11PM ^ well on moral basis you can robber a hooker since she doesn't have enough moral ground to judge a thief [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 2 2013 : 9:26PM CRFlixxx wrote: Biggest problem with that is....I can go to itunes or Amazon and buy a song for $0.99-1.50. Sometimes even buying whole albums for a dollar or a couple of bucks. Is there anyplace I can buy a porn movie download for under $10? Anywhere? Especially a new movie? Click to expand Oh Please. That's what everyone always says. There may not be a site similar to iTunes but here are some great examples of amazing deals. You can join Videobox for about 12$ and you'll get over 10,000 movies so it's less than a penny a movie. You can join VideosZ for 18$ and you also get over 10,000 movies so it's also less than a penny a movie. There are all the different studios own websites that allow you access to the bulk of their library. Wicked Pictures is 15$ and you get 500 movies for that price. Evil Angel is 15$ and you get 1300 movies for that price. Elegan Angel is 20$ and you get over 400 movies. [Link]
CRFlixxx Member 60 Posts 4/13	Posted - May 3 2013 : 1:25AM pat362, EVERY site you posted is more expensive than you said. They are all around $30 a month and you only get sub $10 monthly if you buy the full year in advance at around $100. I can't afford to put down that $100 upfront. And even when I can afford it....$100 a year vs free. $10 a month is a no brainer and much easier for the average person to stomach vs $100. And most of those sites have older movies I've already seen years ago. I just checked my email and I signed up to Brazzers for the full year when they offered a sale of $69.99. That's $30 off the regular full year price, a great deal, but even the $70 upfront cost was a bit steep. But if they charged $9 month, I sign up with no second thought. Charge less upfront and get more in the long run vs how it's setup now. Remember, as I said, you're competing against FREE. And against people who feel it's their sacred duty to bootleg. It could be argued that a lot of the file-sharers are making money though paid downloads, i.e. why megaupload got shutdown, so they have extra incentive to bootleg, but what about torrents? People who upload torrents do it for no money....JUST BECAUSE. It's a weird subculture that I don't get at all, but it's changed the landscape, and you've got to price your product accordingly. Like I said, I also joined GayRoom at $25 a month, after 3 weeks said, screw it, all the good twink scenes are downloaded, I'm canceling. When I clicked cancel they said, "We'll charge you $8 a month if you stay." I stayed and even if they only put a scene or two I like a month, I can easily afford to throw away $8 a month. I can't afford more. [Link]

LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 3 2013 : 8:50AM ^ You don't need to join a whole year just do it for a month every three and watch what you want, some sites allow you to download the flick and watch it whenever you want , so you can save what you want on your PC and join again to get their updates. we're not talking about food , you don't need to watch anything the very same day of its issue [Link]
CRFlixxx Member 60 Posts 4/13	Posted - May 3 2013 : 9:21AM ^No, but when I get a hard on...I kind of NEED to do something with it, ASAP. Maybe not that second, but within 24hrs give or take. So, when that need arises, $8 a month is an easy throw away figure. $25-30 isn't as easy a figure to throw away. Since subscribing to Brazzers, after the first few days, I download maybe a few vids a week. With weeks where I don't download anything. Instead of charging me a $70 one time payment, they could charge me $9 a month and make an extra thirty bucks over the course of the year, and don't get hit extra in bandwith, since I'll wind up downloading the same amount anyways. GayRoom did it right. If I only download a few vids a month, or no vids that month, I don't feel ripped off cause the monthly cost is so low. Drop your prices, see profits go up. Keep the prices where they are, see the bootlegging stay the same. People want cheap. The HP Touchpad fires sale proved it. People will buy garbage if it's cheap enough, I did. But give them quality at great prices they can easily afford, the world is yours. [Link]
bootymeister Senior Member Gravity as Curved Space: Bootymeister's Theory of General Relativity 1589 Posts 11/08	Posted - May 3 2013 : 1:16PM CummingLinguist wrote: Despite many performers' protestations to the contrary, porn is a modern manifestation of the world's oldest profession. The tube sites can no more kill porn than the town slut could put the brothel out of business... I want the ability to download whatever scene I want from the same interface. It seems to me that someone needs to bring all the big producers to the same table, where they can agree to provide ALL of their content through a single user interface and at a reasonable price. ... What do you think porn users need or want? How might a business be able to satisfy that need or want? Click to expand I agree, a website which can provide access to all porn produced, at the highest quality available by the studio which is usually Blu-ray/HD, with a rapidly expanding back catalog, priced at $20.00 to $50.00 per month. Two or three competing websites would eventually be needed so that a fair price to the customer is established though competition and so that one website can not dictate the fees paid to the studios. In addition to quality and near complete available, this will also provide something else, convenience and time savings, which the tube sites can not offer. Different levels of service can be offered for quantity or streaming vs downloading options. [Link]
Everett Senior Member 2088 Posts 6/05	Posted - May 3 2013 : 3:53PM CummingLinguist wrote: I want the ability to download whatever scene I want from the same interface. It seems to me that someone needs to bring all the big producers to the same table, where they can agree to provide ALL of their content through a single user interface and at a reasonable price. Edited by - cumminglinguist on 5/2/2013 7:43:16 AM Click to expand that's never going to happen. Since producers are on all levels. gonzo, amateur, foreign, independent and top mainstream porn. There is a very good interview with Mika Tan from several years ago on Youtube. She says that as a performer she opted to be an independent performer and later producer because she made more of the money calling her own shots. Independent minded producers are not going to want to come under one auspices to sell porn, especially when it interferes with their profit margin. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 3 2013 : 8:43PM CRFlixxx wrote: pat362, EVERY site you posted is more expensive than you said. They are all around $30 a month and you only get sub $10 monthly if you buy the full year in advance at around $100. I can't afford to put down that $100 upfront. And even when I can afford it....$100 a year vs free. $10 a month is a no brainer and much easier for the average person to stomach vs $100. And most of those sites have older movies I've already seen years ago. Click to expand Do you really think I'd write what I did if I wasn't sure of what I'm talking about. Just visit the below link and you'll see that each of the sits I wrote are all at the price I gave you. I never recommend that anyone join a site for a full year because there is always the chance that the site will die before you get to the end of the year. http://www.thebestporn.com/home.html P.S: Please do not compare free porn to paying for it. There is no comparaison. One is stealing the works others did and not paying for it while the other one helps the people who's worked you are paying for to make more porn. I'd also like to add that 100$ per year comes out to less than 2$ per week. [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - May 3 2013 : 9:51PM Everett wrote: CummingLinguist wrote: I want the ability to download whatever scene I want from the same interface. It seems to me that someone needs to bring all the big producers to the same table, where they can agree to provide ALL of their content through a single user interface and at a reasonable price. Edited by - cumminglinguist on 5/2/2013 7:43:16 AM Click to expand ... Independent minded producers are not going to want to come under one auspices to sell porn, especially when it interferes with their profit margin. Click to expand Sometimes the needs of producers and the customers come into conflict (as is also the case with price). Right now, the free sites are offering something (aggregation) that the pay sites aren't offering. The producers need to solve this problem. I recommended cooperating on distribution as one (partial) solution. Right now, the producers offerings are worse than the tube sites-- at least on the important issue of aggregation. The question for the customer isn't "Why pay for porn when you can get the same thing for free on the tube sites?" It's "Why pay for porn when the tube sites have more to offer, and it's free?" iTunes figured this out for the music companies, and Amazon basically copied the iTunes model with the Kindle. I'm not saying that the porn companies just need to imitate what Apple did ten years ago, and everything will be great. But if they can't even work together on something as obvious as creating a single marketplace where porn customers can go to buy their porn, then they are in a lot of trouble. I might also add that the porn companies can't get away with a price point that is significantly higher than mainstream cinema. Netflix allows unlimited streaming of content from multiple producers for $7.95/month. Amazon sells movies for around $10, with rentals for less. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - May 4 2013 : 12:10AM CummingLinguist wrote: The question for the customer isn't "Why pay for porn when you can get the same thing for free on the tube sites?" It's "Why pay for porn when the tube sites have more to offer, and it's free?" Click to expand The legit porn producers do have the potential advantage of providing cataloging and search capability to the customer. Often times the tubesites have to obfuscate/withhold the scene titles and performer names, so as to preserve their shield of ignorance. The search capability and direct access is worth paying for IMO. [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - May 4 2013 : 6:42AM ^ I agree with you on the value of search, but I think this value is undermined if you can only search (and access) the offerings of a single company. What do you mean by direct access? [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 4 2013 : 1:02PM The question for the customer isn't "Why pay for porn when you can get the same thing for free on the tube sites?" It's "Why pay for porn when the tube sites have more to offer, and it's free?" iTunes figured this out for the music companies, and Amazon basically copied the iTunes model with the Kindle. Click to expand People always seem to use iTunes as reference for what the porn industry should do and I can see why they do that but the biggest reason why iTunes and now also Amazon digital media exist is because of technology. If you remove the ipod and now the tablet from the equation then we aren't even talking about iTunes or any other company doing the same. People were downloading illegal songs and movies a decade ago but once Apple came out with a portable device on which you could store and playback songs then you were limited to your computer and making cd's. The music industry and the maintream media are still being attacked by digital pirates and their content is still finding it's way on sites like Pirate bay but they at least have Government agencies looking out for their interest and therefore it's easier for them to survive and even thrive [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - May 4 2013 : 1:27PM ninja1 wrote: CummingLinguist wrote: The question for the customer isn't "Why pay for porn when you can get the same thing for free on the tube sites?" It's "Why pay for porn when the tube sites have more to offer, and it's free?" Click to expand The legit porn producers do have the potential advantage of providing cataloging and search capability to the customer. Often times the tubesites have to obfuscate/withhold the scene titles and performer names, so as to preserve their shield of ignorance. The search capability and direct access is worth paying for IMO. Click to expand And, yet, the "tube-sites" and file-sharing sites always dominate the search engine results (e.g. Bing, Google, etc.). You often have to drill-down through the second or third page of results before a legitimate source/vendor even shows up [Link]

pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 4 2013 : 8:23PM ^I may be stretching it a little but I've always considered Google to be a money making enterprise that doesn't care too much about what it promotes as long as the money is right and they can get away with it. The day most G20 Governments ban together and start to put pressure on Google to be more selective in their search options is the day Goggle starts to give a shit. Otherwise they'll keep on promoting Tube and Torrent sites. [Link]
Robert Member My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage. 503 Posts 12/06	Posted - May 4 2013 : 9:47PM My (non-porn) website has been near the top of Google's search list for years. I believe it's because it has been around forever and it gets a lot of hits. I've never felt that they "promote" my site although if I paid Google to put me higher in their list, I'm sure it would cause them to do that. Never have tried it. Lately I've turned over "management" of the site to a business that spealizes in improving the site (adding content and re-design of pages to get more views) and they have been putting Google sponsored links on some of the pages which possible increases the number of hits each day. I doubt very much if the Tube sites pay Google to "promote" them and if that is the case, the sellers of porn DVDs, downloads, etc. could probably effectively counter that with similar action. In the end, I believe that the Google algorithm for determining what sites go to the top of the list is weighted heavily by how many visitors view the site. Then again, maybe I'm naive. [Link]
Danger Josh Member I've been in the Danger Zone! 385 Posts 4/13	Posted - May 5 2013 : 1:00AM Robert wrote: My (non-porn) website has been near the top of Google's search list for years. I believe it's because it has been around forever and it gets a lot of hits. I've never felt that they "promote" my site although if I paid Google to put me higher in their list, I'm sure it would cause them to do that. Never have tried it. Lately I've turned over "management" of the site to a business that spealizes in improving the site (adding content and re-design of pages to get more views) and they have been putting Google sponsored links on some of the pages which possible increases the number of hits each day. I doubt very much if the Tube sites pay Google to "promote" them and if that is the case, the sellers of porn DVDs, downloads, etc. could probably effectively counter that with similar action. In the end, I believe that the Google algorithm for determining what sites go to the top of the list is weighted heavily by how many visitors view the site. Then again, maybe I'm naive. Click to expand Im curious, what is your website name? [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - May 5 2013 : 7:08AM ^^ I'm sure you know more about SEO and website promotion than I do, but my understanding is that Google monetizes through their advertisements, and that their search algorithm is the "content" that brings eyeballs to their ads. In other words, I don't think you can pay to get your website in the search list. I also don't believe they accept ads from from porn sites. [Link]
bootymeister Senior Member Gravity as Curved Space: Bootymeister's Theory of General Relativity 1589 Posts 11/08	Posted - May 5 2013 : 9:08AM ^ Search results by Google are pure. But, websites can manipulate there position on search results, depending upon the formula used by the search engine. If porn sites can advertise on Google, it is very limited. However, anything deemed to be related to 'adult' is elimnated from Google's Instant Search option. Edited by - bootymeister on 5/5/2013 12:01:08 PM [Link]
Robert Member My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage. 503 Posts 12/06	Posted - May 5 2013 : 11:31AM This is starting to wander OT, so I'll do this last post. CummingLinguist wrote: ^^ I'm sure you know more about SEO and website promotion than I do, but my understanding is that Google monetizes through their advertisements, and that their search algorithm is the "content" that brings eyeballs to their ads. In other words, I don't think you can pay to get your website in the search list. I also don't believe they accept ads from from porn sites. Click to expand I know practically nothing about SEO. That is one reason I gave my site to a site management company. You can pay Google for and "ad" that puts your web site link to the right (or on top) of the search results. I consider that "paying to get your website in the search results." For those who consider Wikipedia to be as accurate as other reference sources here is the URL that explains how Google determines the priorities of a search http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Search One might also consider doing a Goggle search of "Google search." [Link]
bootymeister Senior Member Gravity as Curved Space: Bootymeister's Theory of General Relativity 1589 Posts 11/08	Posted - May 5 2013 : 11:58AM Paid ads that come up on a Google search are clearly labled as ads by Google. Also, Google tries to adjust its search results to demote websites accused of accomodating piracy. I suspect that Google withholds this feature when adult content related searches are performed. However, one can greatly reduce tube sites and the like from search results by searching to dis-include words like 'torrent', 'rapidshare', 'tube', ...etc. Edited by - bootymeister on 5/5/2013 12:19:51 PM [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - May 5 2013 : 7:40PM CummingLinguist wrote: I also don't believe they accept ads from from porn sites. Click to expand Oh, they do, but onfortunately their guidelines about what is and isn't allowed are rather vague. Jacco [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - May 5 2013 : 10:25PM Porn is a corporate industry. Corporations protect their interests. I expect them to continue finding profits for the remainder of the capitalist era, but what they make may look like garbage to older porn fans. [Link]
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - Aug 28 2013 : 12:36AM Porn is a dying industry for those unwilling to adapt. [Link]

StoneHoliday Member 6 Posts 8/13	Posted - Aug 28 2013 : 3:07AM I'll always support it, but it is dying. Now I've seen porn stars and former porn stars go on the free cam sites. You can put on strip shows, get naked, and get off, for people to see and tip you right from your own bedroom. Everything is in real time. You can talk to them. They can talk to you. And some of these unknown girls on there look just as good (if not even better) as some of the current porn stars out there today. Still, for me and my generation, it doesn't replace porn. For my point of view, it seemed like porn started dying out between 2005-2007. It doesn't seem that there are top "must see stars" like there used to be. I'm talking both in looks and what they are willing to do on camera. I sound old, but in the late 80s up to early 2000's there were so many top stars and underrated "mid level girls" that graced box covers. If you went to a back room at any video store, you'd be in there a long time trying to make a choice because there were so many to choose from. Now it takes forever to make a pick because there seems to be so little to choose from. This post may come off as an insult. I'm not trying to insult today's industry or today's girls by any means. Chances are it's probably me getting old. Ironic since I used to laugh at older guys in the 90s over the same kind of comments. My generation would rave about porn stars of our time. The older guys would frown saying they'd stick to the 70s and early 80s stuff. My friends and I never understood them back then. Now maybe we've become them! LOL [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 3:55PM Goldstein is not endorsing any particular point-of-view here. Merely posting an interesting article that is looking outside the box... Content Creators Use Piracy to Gauge Consumer Interest By NICK BILTON September 17, 2013 You would think that Netflix, HBO and the like don’t think too highly of video piracy Web sites. After all, two of the biggest hits on Netflix — Orange Is the New Black, a show about a women locked up in prison, and House of Cards, about a conniving politician — are among the most pirated content online. HBO’s Game of Thrones was the most pirated show of 2012. But last week, a senior Netflix executive said the company itself used pirating Web sites — to determine the genre of new shows viewers might be interested in, and the type of content Netflix produces or licenses. “With the purchase of a series, we look at what does well on piracy sites,” Kelly Merryman, vice president of content acquisition at Netflix, told the Web site Tweakers, a Netherlands-based news outlet. “Prison Break” is exceptionally popular on piracy sites,” Ms. Merryman said, while noting that this was part of the reason Netflix decided to license the show. While piracy proponents have been arguing that companies should embrace illegal downloads for some time, it seems that companies like Netflix are finally agreeing. Laurence H. Tribe, a professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School, said Netflix, HBO and others can gain important information on customers by paying attention to online pirates. “I have little doubt that some companies are starting to see how they might benefit from the information they can reap by being subjected to online piracy,” Mr. Tribe said in an interview. “Whether they see those benefits as large enough to offset their losses discounted by the high costs of constructing sufficiently strong anti-piracy protections is likely to be a function of a hard-headed, context-based cost-benefit calculation framed by imagination.” In the past Reed Hastings, Netflix’s chief executive, has seemed nonplussed by the reality that people illegally download shows from his company. “Certainly there is some Torrenting that goes on and that’s true around the world, but some of that just creates the demand,” Mr. Hastings told Tweakers in an interview when asked how he feels about people pirating content on the site. “Netflix is so much easier than Torrenting.” In the interview, Mr. Hastings implied that pirating builds demand, and then when the service becomes available in a new country, people switch to the easier, paid product. ”In Canada BitTorrent is down by as much as 50 percent since Netflix launched three years ago,” he said. It seems that Netflix isn’t alone in lauding piracy Web sites, or at least nodding to the importance of them as a barometer for the public’s interest in a show. Earlier this year Time Warner’s chief executive, Jeffrey L. Bewkes, said on an earnings call that pirated content can be “a tremendous word-of-mouth thing.” While talking about HBO’s Game of Thrones, Mr. Bewkes said the discovery that the show was the most pirated TV brand of 2012 could be “better than an Emmy.” Even the music industry is learning that piracy can pay. According to a study issued in March by the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre, a scientific and technical arm of the European Commission, illegal downloads of songs do very little to harm music industry sales. The study of 16,000 Europeans found that “piracy can actually provide a boost to music revenues online, irrespective of the genre, and that it should not be viewed as a pressing issue by the industry at all.” In many instances, the study found, if the music was available in a digital form for a fee people would be willing to pay for it. This is the same reality HBO and Netflix seems to be learning, too. Of course, as I’ve noted before, some of this could be content producers choosing to throw their hands in the air when it comes to illegal downloads. Stopping online piracy is like playing the world’s largest game of Whac-A-Mole. -------------------------------------------------------------- In many instances, the study found, if the music was available in a digital form for a fee people would be willing to pay for it. This is the same reality HBO and Netflix seems to be learning, too. Click to expand Let's keep in mind that the current porn "for a fee" business models don't seem to be working all that well. I think the porn industry could learn a lot from mainstream entertainment business models. For example, people that choose to buy and download/stream movies (Netflix) and music (iTunes) are not being forced to do so on a company-by-company (e.g. studio-by-studio) basis -- particularly if they want the first-quality original content in full-resolution. When you buy digital content in the mainstream world, you get a quality item that adheres to certain standards -- not the free-for-all-anything-goes-poor-resolution-frequently-corrupted-content-with-compatibility-issues customers often receive in the porn marketplace. Maybe the reason porn is so easily pirated, and why many refuse to pay for it, has something to do with the quality of much of the paid-for content being so poor (and perceived as "not worth it," at least not on moral grounds alone). [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 6:24PM A porn Netflix or I-tunes is possible, but we just need a few little things to get it started: A nice big venture capitalist. A payment service provider that is willing to accept adult without charging exorbitant fees. That's all we need. Jacco [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 8:30PM ^ The porn studios are in such a bad place right now that some studios might consider such a thing....but I have to wonder would a NETFLIX type porn service really be that much of a success. They'd still have to battle the whole free porn thing. Plus competition from all the current web based porn sites that wouldn't just go away because of a NETFLIX type porn service. For me personally my VIDEOBOX subscription is pretty much the porn equivalent to my NETFLIX subscription. They do the same thing and offer the same type of selection (other than one being mainstream and the other being porn). A deep catalog of older and not quite new stuff and quirky selections that I'd never buy on my own but I enjoy watching because they're offered. A lot of big name major studios/titles aren't offered but the catalog is so deep there's always plenty of solid stuff to watch. I can't see a full on porn version of NETFLIX being that much better...plus NETFLIX doesn't allow you to own or download and a lot of porn fans seem to be hung up on that. [Link]
oralperv Member 272 Posts 4/12	Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 8:45PM . if you put the "L" and "I" in NETFLIX together they make a "U" . ..which spells NETFUX . .. just a thought as to possible site name . [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 9:25PM You would think that Netflix, HBO and the like don’t think too highly of video piracy Web sites. After all, two of the biggest hits on Netflix — Orange Is the New Black, a show about a women locked up in prison, and House of Cards, about a conniving politician — are among the most pirated content online. HBO’s Game of Thrones was the most pirated show of 2012. Click to expand I don't think Netflix or HBO give a shit about pirating sites because both are paid subscription channels with a vast amount of paying members. They have already made their money even before their shows are broadcasted. They only thing those pirating sites might affect is when the shows get released on dvd but there again they have an audience willing to pay for those shows. One of the main reasons why film studios don't like pirate sites is because their movies haven't made any money until the movie is released so the more people watch their movies on those sites the less money they will make. I'm sure HBO, Netflix and every other Hollywood producer is curious to know what people are willing to download or stream online but how accurate is the info when the people you are polling aren't paying a penny for the content. For instance. I know I would be a poor example for those execs because I'm more likely to watch a tv show or movie that I'm not sure is any good or is too borderline to want to spend money on. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 9:41PM Draxxx wrote: For me personally my VIDEOBOX subscription is pretty much the porn equivalent to my NETFLIX subscription. They do the same thing and offer the same type of selection (other than one being mainstream and the other being porn). A deep catalog of older and not quite new stuff and quirky selections that I'd never buy on my own but I enjoy watching because they're offered. A lot of big name major studios/titles aren't offered but the catalog is so deep there's always plenty of solid stuff to watch. I can't see a full on porn version of NETFLIX being that much better...plus NETFLIX doesn't allow you to own or download and a lot of porn fans seem to be hung up on that. Click to expand I think itunes (rather than netflix) is the gold standard. A much deeper catalog and downloadability are significant advantages over a netflix-style system. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Sep 20 2013 : 2:59PM ^ AEBN and HOTMOVIES are closer to the iTunes model and I really don't see how you can get a porn service of that sort to be that much better than what they offer. Long story short what some porn fans want is a service that gives them the newest releases from all studios that they can download and own for a ridiculously low price and that's just not going to happen. The numbers just aren't there to allow it. iTunes and NETFLIX only are able to offer cheap stuff because millions of people subscribe or purchase content from them. When a movie or series ends up on NETFIX it's already made the real money in movie theatres, DVDs, cable and through other venues. NETFLIX is just another revenue stream. With porn the audience willing to pay for it simply isn't big enough and it's other money venues are pretty limited. If porn went to a iTunes model it would cut even deeper into DVD sales and porn sites that offer exclusive content. Realistically, the ability to get new, old or hard to find porn is pretty simple in this day and age. The main problem some porn fans want to be able to download content and own it at a price that wouldn't be able to support the service or the people who produce porn. [Link]
Tiger_y Deactivated User 190 Posts 8/11	Posted - Feb 5 2014 : 3:35PM This message (or variations of it) can be seen in some posts that have been moderated due do tube-linking: [mod edit: link removed. no tube sites. Many of our members earn their living by making or selling porn. They don't need you to give it away for free.] Many artists make a living out of playing or making music, they don't need radio to give their music away for free - or do they? [Link]
NotMyRealName Member 487 Posts 6/13	Posted - Feb 5 2014 : 5:38PM Here's my version of what a good site would be: Subscription based, it charges by the month or for a full year at a discount (already in use by many of the sites.) Part of you get when you pay is a voice to make requests for scenes and models. The site makes it a point to produce a number of scenes (maybe a 1/3rd or more) based on what is contributed by the paying members. At the same time they are producing content that has no input from the members and is solely from the production department (the usual model.) Creating a forum to submit ideas and involving the paying members with production updates would probably keep people paying (along with being able to view/download the daily updates.) This would also split the difference between the personal element involved in camming and the production values of a professionally produced scene. Brazzers kind of does this now but they don't expressly adhere to making a number of scenes based on user contributions or model suggestions. The new site would be much more direct in that regard. What you would get is maybe a point system that you could spend in a genre or on a model or something and every month you get more. So for example, if a you wanted to see a scene that was B/G/G and since it cost more to get 2 girls you might have to spend more points (or bank them for a month.) The regular production department would fulfill the number of scenes needed to keep the genres updates (regardless of user input you are going to get at least one big boobs scene a week etc.) Since it's only 1/3 of the scenes it would be a lot less likely to have people quit the site because of lame user contributed content (production would still be putting out scenes as they see fit.) Just an idea. [Link]
danielle_ftv Member 307 Posts 12/11	Posted - Feb 5 2014 : 6:58PM Draxxx wrote: ^ AEBN and HOTMOVIES are closer to the iTunes model and I really don't see how you can get a porn service of that sort to be that much better than what they offer. Long story short what some porn fans want is a service that gives them the newest releases from all studios that they can download and own for a ridiculously low price and that's just not going to happen. The numbers just aren't there to allow it. iTunes and NETFLIX only are able to offer cheap stuff because millions of people subscribe or purchase content from them. When a movie or series ends up on NETFIX it's already made the real money in movie theatres, DVDs, cable and through other venues. NETFLIX is just another revenue stream. With porn the audience willing to pay for it simply isn't big enough and it's other money venues are pretty limited. If porn went to a iTunes model it would cut even deeper into DVD sales and porn sites that offer exclusive content. Realistically, the ability to get new, old or hard to find porn is pretty simple in this day and age. The main problem some porn fans want to be able to download content and own it at a price that wouldn't be able to support the service or the people who produce porn. Click to expand Wow! Just wow! I love how you answered why the iTunes model wouldn't work for porn. Do you mind if I steal this answer? Danielle Delaunay - www.DanielleFTV.com www.DanielleDelaunay.com [Link]
danielle_ftv Member 307 Posts 12/11	Posted - Feb 5 2014 : 7:35PM I'm not sure if I've chimed in on this topic before. Last month I spent: Nails - $170 +$60 tip Hair - $300 Toys - $180 Testing - $165 Shoot Clothing - $84 Photographer - $650 Talent - $1150 Agency Fee - $110 Beautification - $138 That's over $3000 (and doesn't include the cost of me staying in LA to shoot). I'm paying for talent, agency fees, photographer(s), location rental, flight(s), hotel stay in LA, car rental while in LA, misc. travel expenses (like food, gas for car, etc.), nails, hair, makeup, shoot clothing, shoot shoes, shoot toys, supplies (lube, douches, enemas, etc.), testing and more. As a producer it is not cheap to create quality content. I've recently started doing more content trade scenes...but even then it's still not free since you still have to pay for the photographer (and potentially for the location rental). It infuriates me when I have people tell me that my site should be cheaper or when they tell me how they watch my content on a tube site or torrent site. Just because people can watch porn for free doesn't mean that they should. It's still stealing. Danielle Delaunay - www.DanielleFTV.com www.DanielleDelaunay.com Edited by - danielle_ftv on 2/5/2014 7:37:34 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Feb 5 2014 : 8:29PM Many artists make a living out of playing or making music, they don't need radio to give their music away for free - or do they? Click to expand Clearly you have no clue about what you are writing so let me spend a few seconds and educate you. The reason why you don't pay for music that is played on radio is because the radio station pays for it. All radio station have to submit a list of the songs they played during a certain period of time so that royalty checks can be issued to the various artists and/or record company who own those songs. That's why the Beatles still make millions of dollars from all the songs played on all the radio stations. Of course the amounts paid for those songs is only pennies but just imagine all the stations in the world playing the same song on a weekly basis and you start to grasp just how much money the owner of the song makes just by staying home and doing nothing else. [Link]
Nardack Member 51 Posts 8/17	Posted - Jan 7 2018 : 9:53PM Meh, am I the only one who thinks that new porn sales are down not just because of "ZOMFG EVIL PIRACY!!" but because much of the porn being produced nowadays isn't really worth buying? I mean, I don't really know about anybody else, but I'm honestly bored to death with how 98.9999% of all porn these days is just "Two attractive people walk into a room. They have sex. The end." Where's the creativity? Where's the variety? I'm not asking for Oscar-winning screenplays or acting but a bit of originality would be nice. I enjoy Erika Lust's XConfessions because the cinematography is great & the scenarios are unique. If more porn was like that, maybe sales would rise. Or maybe most people are just filthy pirates. [Link]
Whyspers2Scorpio Senior Member "Pornography: That which excites, whether from approval or disapproval." ~ Leonard Rossite 2345 Posts 12/17	Posted - Jan 8 2018 : 12:43PM Is porn a dying industry? Yes and no, how can it both you ask?? Because the same question that has been plaguing mainstream media is haunting the adult industry and that is how to create a product that people will buy at a price that is fair to the consumer but also to the performers in an environment that essentially facilitates theft? Many are getting into custom videos, other performers diversify smartly so they have other professions to fall back on when their time is up. For me personally, I've had the situation where I've gotten an adult DVD and enjoyed one or two of the scenes on it. What would work for me would be to have a situation where I am buying a custom DVD with the scenes of a particular studio on it. In other words, instead of the studio deciding to throw these particular 4-5 scenes together - I get to make that call and pay the price accordingly. That would do wonders for keeping the business alive in my opinion. As far as creativity, today's pornography is decidedly more real, more authentic and fun than it was in the 90s and such. I'm glad of that because it's far more entertaining to imagine today's scenes going down in a house on the other side of this city rather than some ridiculous premise straight out of outrageous territory. Sinful Scorpio, Passionate Aries [Link]
Mobzters Member 971 Posts 4/15	Posted - Jan 9 2018 : 1:13AM Nardack wrote: Meh, am I the only one who thinks that new porn sales are down not just because of "ZOMFG EVIL PIRACY!!" but because much of the porn being produced nowadays isn't really worth buying? I mean, I don't really know about anybody else, but I'm honestly bored to death with how 98.9999% of all porn these days is just "Two attractive people walk into a room. They have sex. The end." Where's the creativity? Where's the variety? I'm not asking for Oscar-winning screenplays or acting but a bit of originality would be nice. I enjoy Erika Lust's XConfessions because the cinematography is great & the scenarios are unique. If more porn was like that, maybe sales would rise. Or maybe most people are just filthy pirates. Click to expand I think you might be on to something. Piracy (porn, music) has existed for what? 15 or 20 years? Has the amount of produced music or produced porn dropped alarmingly during the past two decades? [Link]