I was looking around some sites and I see this crazy woman who claims she was a pornstar , bashing porn and trying to convert pornstars to civalians and get them into god. Who the hell is she why is she so against porn, what movies was she in, what can we do to shut her up. [mod edit: corrected spelling of her name in thread title] Edited by - killbillvol69 on May 16 2013
her website her myspace I couldn't find her movies for you, but you are right that she does bash porn and she does try to convert pornstars but here is the kick in the head, wouldn't us trying to stop her be the same thing as her trying to stop us?
....So...If you jerk off to a Shelly Lubben movie is that for her or against her?
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 12:27PM
Well ... I am guilty then! I used to watch The Cumm Brothers 3 all the time. She had a great scene with Rodney Moore & Wolf Savage -- did anal and took 2 facials! Her porn name was "Roxy", BTW. Look it up in IAFD. Even now I think she'd be awesome in MILF stuff.
I think what is so funny about this/her/message board threads about her... is that most of us don't care about her anti-porn crusade, we just want to know what porn movies she's been in so we can watch her scenes. LOL. There's nothing wrong with porn in and of itself. Yes, alot of people that get into porn have problems, but so does most of the general population. These folks would still have the same problems without porn. It's easy to point the finger at the porn industry and blame it for your problems. The more difficult task is to look at yourself and take responsibility for your own actions.
yes and no yes I believe she has done movies, I just don't know her stage name, I have seen it before, but am lazy. No I don't think she was a star, but I think people love to call anyone who has a web scene a porn star any more *edited to add tritone hooked a brother up it's Roxy Edited by - imak on 12/7/2007 2:13:26 PM
Honestly she doesnt sound a whole lot diffrent from any other closed minded arrogant xtian that lacks the ability to think for themselves.I find most xtians are brainwashed into believing anything the preacher,priest or any other self proclaimed "holy" man says.She is a sad case only by the reason that she truely believes what she is doing is right and she really does want to save your soul. he's like every other xtian in this country,they push thier sense of morality off on everyone. Kinda sounds like some terrorist groups I know of.... Al Quieda... This is how it starts.When your so morally superior to everyone that you can be a judge of thier life. Then again maybe she has a message that some people need to hear. Anyway i think your all handeling this very well.
re your avatar.. you can use a pic of anything, doesnt have to be you, feel free to use my cats do use xtian as short hand cause christian is to long, or is it like how some people dont type god and type g-d just curious
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 3:46PM
I agree that the term "porn star" is used too liberally these days. The recent Zoey Zane tragedy is a good example. She was repeatedly referred to as a porn star by the media. But in fact, she only did softcore stuff on a website. Even if you do perform hardcore acts, to be called a pornstar in my book your name has to be big enough such that someone with only a cursory knowledge of porn would know who you were. Jenna Jameson, Tera Patrick, John Holmes, Marylin Chambers, Vanessa Del Rio, Heather Hunter, Ginge Lynn, etc.. IMHO, the last real pornstar was Jenna Jameson. Edited by - tritone on 12/7/2007 3:47:26 PM
You set the bar a little high there. I would say that Jenna is a legit Megastar. I define Megastar as somebody who is literaly larger than the industry they are a part of. Micheal Jordan, Hulk Hogan, Wayne Gretsky, Tiger Woods, Jenna Jameson, Super Mario. These individuals are so iconic that you could have never seen a single sport, played a single video game or watched a Wrestlemania and yet these are people you recognize by name and face. So if a woman has to acheive Jenna to be a porn star in your eyes then seriously they're are like 4 in history. Jenna, Marylin, Ron Jeremy and MAYBE Tera though she's and even Ms. Chambers are distant second to the real stars of Ron and Jenna. That said I'm curious why so many people here don't put any blame on the industry for the problems that we see. I'm not supporting Shelly, she's an idiot. I'm saying that where they're is smoke there is often fire. The number of incidents suggest one of two things. Porn/Wrestling/Military life attract people who are screwed up already OR there is something in those life styles that exasperates existing problems and sometimes creates them. I suppose there is the third option that these supposed bad things just happen completely at random. All those deaths that used to happen in Rock and Roll, that was coincidence too. Seriously.
Shelly is completely insane. But somebody before me already explained the only inteligent way to deal with her right now. Ignore her. She doesn't have a head of steam and engaging her in debate only makes her position seem worthy of discussion which it really isn't. Ignore her. I'd be willing to bet that nobody who isn't a fan of porn(or in the industry) has any clue who she is. She's a nobody who's so far out there that even other Christians as a whole are hesitant to attach their name to her crusade. Not because they are supporters of porn but they recognize a rabid dog when they see one.
No. She doesn't sound any different, really. However, that doesn't mean she can't think for herself. Obviously, she decided (for whatever reason) that she wanted to change her career and her lifestyle. I really can't fault anyone for that. In some ways, I think, probably, using religion to justify your beliefs is a cop out, however. I would have less of a problem with her "preaching" the perils of a porn career if she would just let whatever she believes is wrong stand on it's own to be judged as actually being wrong or not by the audience, rather than the whole "It's wrong because the Bible says so" or "It's immoral because it just is". I notice she says a lot of things are "degrading" and/or "humiliating" such as when the director cuts the scene to adjust something or clean up some kind of bodily fluid. I can see how this kind of thing could be humiliating to someone or they might feel that it's degrading but I doubt very much if the director's intent is to degrade them by stopping the action for a moment. Seems like it's just the way things are. It would be the same making any kind of movie. The only difference would be that you might be "frozen" standing on your tiptoes with your arms outstretched, rather than on your hands and knees with a dick in your ass. It's just the nature of the thing. I don't see how that's any more degrading than simply being in a porn movie in the first place. Granted, I've never been there myself. So what I think is that she (and those like her) need to say why they feel it's so degrading instead of just saying that it is (because it's generally accepted) and expecting the listener to fall in line with what they're saying. I'd like to hear her explain why she feels that the women who are in porn have no choice but to be exactly where they are, regardless of their wishes. I'm more than willing to listen if she has a reasonable explanation for that belief. I do believe that porn performers have a reasonable expectation of some kind of dignity. Even if they are performing acts that many people wouldn't. The problem I have with people like Shelly Lubben is that I don't believe her "mission" is improving conditions in the porn industry. Her mission (I believe) is to destroy it and to further criminalize normal male sexual behavior. That's what bothers me. She doesn't like men any more than a misogynist likes women. I believe that's her issue. And think about it. If there's such a thing as a misogynist, doesn't it kind of make sense that there would be the female equivalent of it?That is often the case. But not always. I feel that many are indoctrinated into religion at such a young age that they don't have the capacity to make informed decisions about what they should believe. I would call that brainwashing. If you take a 5 year old child (or younger) and tell him/her that God is real and this or that is evil and this or that is good according to God, they are probably going to end up believing it. But most of us here in the US are exposed to an indoctrination attempt to some degree at a very young age. Obviously, it doesn't always take. I think that's probably a matter of trust. If a very young, impressionable child is "taught" a religion by someone he or she implicitly trusts, they are very likely to hold those beliefs for life. And most of us do walk around with that stuff floating around in the back of our minds for life and it tends to just pop up whether we want it to or not. I'd describe myself as agnostic, for example. But I was no different than most other people. I was made to go to church and read the Bible and memorize the stories and so forth. It's all still there. I've mostly rejected it but I guess, for whatever reason, many people accept it.Well, I do agree that the kind of zealotry she displays is dangerous. Because, as you say, it's very likely that she could do some good in the world. I think the most dangerous forms of zealotry all have (on their surface) the appearance of good intentions. Maybe some young women thinking of getting into porn truly are lost and need to hear what she has to say. But I don't think her intentions are quite so noble. Certainly not when she declares porn and sex as harmful and an addiction as a matter of fact. I suppose if you sit around and beat off all day long, it would be unhealthy as anything else. But some preoccupation with women, sex, masturbation and so forth are perfectly normal male characteristics. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/7/2007 5:57:41 PM
Well, for one thing, because "the industry" as we call it, isn't really a single entity so much as a loosely associated web of individuals who have only a few common threads. IOW, it's hard to take everyone who does any kind of porn and blame them all for whatever truly bad things go on when things get out of hand. Any kind of order and structure in a business like porn doesn't come easy and usually only comes out of pure necessity. Porn, by it's nature, resists organization. Especially when it comes to being associated with things few are proud of.Well, I would say that it's probably more likely than not that someone who would seek out employment in a business like porn would have at least a few personal problems that make them unsuitable to a standard 9-5 job. These tend to be things like drugs, alcohol, lack of education, lack of motivation. Thow all these things together in one place and you're bound to have some bad stuff happening. These are people that society rejects. I mean, let's face it. It's true. Wherever they go, the same problems will usually creep up. It just won't be as obvious because they won't all be working in one general profession. They gravitate towards largely unregulated and unstructured work environments because they're well suited to a chaotic and unstructured lifestyle. Last time I worked fast food, even the local McDonald's was doing random drug testing. If you even smoke weed on occasion, you have a high probability of being discovered and terminated from an ordinary job. And I think weed is probably the least harmful of drugs that could get someone fired from an ordinary job. The harder the drug, the more chaotic the lifestyle is likely to be and the less likely that person is to be able to hold down a regular job. Some of them no doubt also have criminal records. That will also put a serious damper on a job search if you expect to be able to make good money.Maybe not. But if they hadn't all been rock stars, how do you know they wouldn't have died the same way but just in different circumstances? I bet if you looked at the causes of death, you could find a lot more people who died of drug overdoses than rock stars. The difference would be that they would all have different careers (or maybe none at all). Again, some women (particularly) end up in porn because their lifestyle is incongruent with the demands of modern society. It stands to reason that there will be a lot of people in porn with the same destructive habits and lifestyles.
A little Google search brought this up: "Between 1993-94, Shelley made about 30 porn movies under the name Roxy." IAFD has a couple of possibilities in their database
I dunno. Jenna seems to have a good head on her shoulders. Mary Carey ran for office. Anne Cruz has a degree. I know that wasn't what you meant, but it does sound like you are suggesting that the reason why porn has a higher than average death rate is because the only people who enter that bussiness are already screwed up. They do drugs, they aren't motivated, they drink too much. Maybe that's true. I don't believe that to be true, but my beliefs don't actually effect reality very often. That said you are making a case that the porn industry is bad. I mean it seems obvious to me that people who are on to many drugs to function in normal society (not every job does regular testing of any sort. Usually an initial test. None have alcohol tests) that the last thing we should be doing as a society is ignoring a growing group of people prone to criminal behavior. You're question about Rockstars isn't fair. We know that there is a certain correlation between sex, drugs and certain elements in the media. Britney Spears isn't a freak of her generation, she's practically the norm. I don't know what exactly caused it but I do know that it is part of the system somewhere. Just like I know there is something in porn, the military and pro-wrestling that is much more taxing on the mind than your more generic professions. I can't prove that if those people hadn't been in Rock and Roll that they wouldn't have died, and under similar circumstances. Sans a time machine it's simply not possible. Who's to say that if you didn't exist that I wouldn't be having this exact same conversation with somebody else? If you can answer that for me then I'll prove to you that had the King and Kurt not been into rock they'd both still be here.
I'm actually not saying that's always the case. I'm not a big fan of blanket statements (although I tend to make them more often than I'd like just to avoid typing thousands of pages of disclaimers). I'm aware that a person doesn't have to have problems to want a porn career. I realize people have different reasons for doing what they do. Nobody ever really questions a man's choice of careers if he choses to go into porn. I think a woman might have the same motives. Maybe she really does just like to fuck. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that our society makes women feel like there's something wrong with it so a lot of women just don't want to do it (at least not in porn). I meant that a job like porn is highly likely to be attractive to people with chaotic lifestyles. It doesn't mean that they're necessarily "fucked up". Just that they don't seem to fit neatly into what society considers to be normal. If you want to help them, make a place for them other than porn or you can't really be that critical of porn.I'm not making any such case. Again, you go to any minimum wage employer and work there for a while and you'll see that although the work environment is more structured than the one you'd probably likely find in porn, the jobs are a dime a dozen. Nobody wants them because the pay is shit, there are almost no benefits, the work sucks, the bosses are generally assholes who hate their jobs as much as the lowers. Add to that the fact that they expect you to be on time every day, never get sick, never complain, never come in with a hangover, etc. No. They don't have alcohol tests but if you like to drink, you're not gonna have fun getting up at 4 in the morning to go flip burgers for $5.50 an hour. People can tell when you're hung over and they don't like it. They fuck with you. It seems insulting for the pay. You wanna pay somebody $5 an hour to flip burgers and cook fries, don't fuck with them. Be happy anyone is willing to do it at all and if they have to be a little drunk or stoned to tolerate the mind numbing work, so be it. But that isn't the way things work and so people who don't fit in go elsewhere rather than banging their heads against a system that wants nothing to do with them. And no. Not every job does random drug testing but many do. And more are doing it all the time. Eventually, it will be common practice everywhere.Of course it isn't fair. Nor is the statement that they all died because they were rock stars. There are other factors that might contribute to someone's demise than their choice of profession. Even if they all tend to work in the same profession, it doesn't mean that industry is responsible for their death. If they weren't doing porn, do you honestly think they'd stop drinking, drugging, partying or whatever it is? Edited by - randomprecision on 12/7/2007 9:15:36 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 11:49PM
The only place I've ever heard Shelly Luben being discussed is on porn forums. I don't know why so many let her get to them and many of the pro-porn statements that appear on forums when discussing her are just preaching to the choir, after all we are on a PORN FORUM. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/7/2007 11:50:10 PM
Without talking down all your points. I'm suggesting that if these "chaotic" people as you put it were not in an industry that not only accepts, but in some ways encourages such behavior that they would have been better off. I'm willing to hazard a guess that a person who is at risk of a given behavior is more prone to it when surrounded by people who are engaging in said behavior. As I've said and I'll keep saying. I don't feel there is anything wrong with porn, or the porn industry as a whole. I do think that there are factors that effect these individuals that cause the trends we see. In most cases trends aren't random. Maybe rain doesn't cause suicide, but something makes the suicide rate in Seattle higher than anywhere else in the US. Maybe it's that only a certain kind of person wants to live that close to Canada. Maybe it's the rain. Maybe it's that they are so far from New York. I don't know what it is, but I know where we should start looking for the answer. SEATLE. Same goes for porn.
Ummm. I wasn't suggesting that said people are "at risk" of a given behavior. I was suggesting that the given behavior is a way of life for them. They generally have fundamental issues and problems that have nothing to do with porn, drugs, alcohol or anything else of the physical. Sometimes they've been all through the mental health field in search of "help". Often, they don't find it. So they self medicate and live their lives as best they can. You see. There's a fundamental problem here and that is that people mistake the symptoms for the disease. The headache is not responsible for the sinus congestion. Lung cancer doesn't cause smoking. Broken arms don't cause football games. Etc. Similarly, drinking, drugs, etc don't usually cause the unbalanced brain chemistry and/or structure that causes some desperate people to seek solace in them. These forms of self medication don't work well and they don't work for very long. And they're usually physically harmful but for many, they're the only thing that makes life tolerable. That's a sad statement and a sad reality. They know it (most of them0 but if there was anything less harmful they could do about it, they already would have. Yes. The porn industry accepts a lot of people the way they are because it knows that whatever faults they have probably won't preclude them from doing what they're being paid to do. Whether people like it or not, it's not a porn producer's job to worry about what the performer does with the money and/or during his or her off hours, whether it's appropriate or even whether or not it's legal. These people are adults. I know we live in a society that treats everyone like naughty children but porn seems to be one of the few places that mentality hasn't completely crept up in.And what might these factors be?That would be if you actually want to know what the answer is. Because once you know the answer, you can't unknow it. Which isn't very helpful if there isn't anything you can do about it or you aren't willing to do what it takes to do something about it without just making the problem worse. See. This type of thinking isn't that original. I'm sure we're not the first people in the last 30 years to have this kind of conversation about what should or shouldn't be happening in porn. And I'm sure the idea of making helpful changes has been undertaken by people much more resourceful and motivated than you or I (Or even Shelly Lubben). Some things just are. Question them if you will. Scapegoat them if you must. But you will not stop a determined person from living (and dying) the way they choose. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/8/2007 4:24:10 AM Edited by - randomprecision on 12/8/2007 4:26:33 AM
Her first problem seems to be, that she is christian. Second, that she is a big time attention whore. She both admit it in her video. Porn is great for some people and terrible for others. If you enjoy what you're doing and get paid for it, there is nothing better. If you hate it and just do it for the money, it's terrible. But even the latter is better than working in a cole mine. Steve Holmes
thanks to Imak, Im listening to Jerzey & Shelley on Shelley's Myspace. I don't know whether it's a live feed or a podcast or whatever but it started playing when I logged onto Shelley's Myspace. Some more Shelley titles would be appreciated cause I don't remember this broad.
man!! ...I got some great porn last night and after listening to some of this Shelley makes me want to haul it all in pile and set it ablaze. I admit Shelley's dialogue ablut quitting porn is kind of persuasive. I know I won't burn my porn but the quit-porn-brainwashing is irresistible. Here's some Shelley dialogue & video from [ invalid url ]. Note the Sierra Sinn piece. Kind of endearing isn't it?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to improve an industry or business such as porn, but trying to eradicate it from the face of the Earth? When does that stop? Does she remove all examples of nudity and sex in mainstream films too or does she stop when it comes to softcore? Does she destroy the Kama Sutra and all erotic art? Does she bang down the door of a nice, friendly private couple who makes their own porn films with each other? The comparisons made earlier to the underbelly of rock & roll seems appropriate, but you never see anyone on a mission to eliminate rock music from the planet - at least not since the 60's. I do think that a person's private issues with sex & sexuality plays a part in how they view porn and whether it has any value and it makes porn an easy target since so much of the United States is skittish about depictions of sex anyway, the loudmouth is guaranteed an audience. Edited by - Matt47 on 12/8/2007 3:26:52 PM
I don't want to control people's lives. The thing is that maybe, just maybe there is something in porn that is easily fixable that could greatly improve the lives of those involved. Since I'm a big fan of wrestling I'll use that as an example and in particular the Benoit tradgedy. The brain autopsy showed damage similar to an 80 year old alziemers patient. Apparently getting hit with a chair, and diving off the ring post and hitting thing with your head (one of Benoits signature moves) might not be a great long term plan. Certain if steriods was the only or even the biggest factor then similar stories should be present in body building and other sports. I'm not claiming I know what factors go into this. Honestly your idea that the girls are already in some way unhealthy prior to entering the bussiness might be true. You make a good point on not being able to unlearn something, but I would rather know than be in the dark wondering if it could be fixed.
Your right, Sean, in that some of this woman's mission boils down to control. I have seen in those I know who are religious in a fundamentalist fashion. It bothers them that might have neighbors who think and live different than themselves, but instead of adopting the "live and let live" philosophy, they decide they must control their environment and all who reside in it, believing that their way of thinking and living is preferred for all. Again, I am not trying to defend bad practices in porn, improvement is needed, but you don't make it the mission to eradicate what can have legitimate artistic and entertainment value. As stated earlier, tragedy happens in other jobs and industries but no one makes it their mission to take down the law, medicine, military or teaching professions because everyone agrees we need them. We still live in a time when most people don't see a need for representations of human sexuality, real or fantasy, it simply makes many uncomfortable. But there is the need for this and there always has been, from cave paintings to pottery art to stills and now video, (most) people will always enjoy watching other people have sex. Porn is not perfect and maybe it's too generalized of a label to apply to all representations of human sexuality (Comstock Films certainly exists outside the normal porn practices), but it's here to stay and Shelly Lubben should get used to it. Maybe I should just start the anti-Shelly Lubben mission, since I consider her a dangerous influence on society and the world and think we need to be rid of her. It sounds funny but it's no less ridiculous than her mission. Edited by - Matt47 on 12/8/2007 4:17:43 PM
i just checked her myspace who are those girls on her top friends, they all say Ex porn stars. Damn she really portrays porn is a black hole, and jerseys story is so crazy, but i dont even remember her in porn
wow if u read her myspace blog she is asking for donations of holiday gift bags to entice current porn workers to talk to her, also it seems that she uses myspace as a way to attack and recruit porn girls to leave porn. Those gift bags are quite a marketing tool lol. Are there Any current actor or actress out there have been hit up by her on myspace?.
Well, I certainly wouldn't want anyone staying in a profession they don't really like, so anyone adult actresses she wins over probably would not have remained long anyway. But I seriously doubt she'll be converting the likes of Belladonna, Aurora Snow, Katsuni, Sandra Romain or any other top drawer talent who dominate their field and maintain great control over what they involve themselves in. And hey, is Lubben trying to convert over any gay porn stars? Doesn't seem like it...
Honestly just for shits and giggles the Porn community should send somebody out to debate Shelly. Just make sure its somebody inteligent, well spoken and able to keep calm. On top of that make certain that both Shelly and the porn rep have their own separate cameras, and their own recordings of the entire debate. Then the porn industry should either a, take the inititive and put the entire thing uncut on something like youtube. OR B, wait until Shelly releases her version of it which will likely be edited all to hell to make the porn rep seem to say things they don't, and then make her look like aliar by releasing the uncut. Though who knows, maybe she's honest and wouldn't do that kind of editing. It can't hurt (porn for the most part is already looked down on) and you never know when you might get lucky and have a positive effect.
I like the idea but honestly, I don't think there's really anyone who can speak for the entire adult industry. When you look at what anti porners are saying, most of it is true. They take the absolute worst stuff that goes on in porn and the adult industry in general and use that as the crux of their argument. When it comes right down to it, nothing anyone can say is good enough to override the fact that certain people in the business made their name by slapping, spitting, choking and calling the women "stupid whores" "Worthless pieces of shit" "Fuckbags" "Fuckholes" "Stupid cunts" and on and on and on. Now while all of this may or may not be just a performance and some of the women may not mind at all (or might even like it), it just looks bad. And sometimes, it really does get out of hand and some chick really takes it personally. And there's no denying that there are probably guys working in the business who truly are misogynists. So you see. Nothing that the anti porn lobby says about porn is categorically false. It all has elements of truth that can't be denied. That's why they use those arguments. They're impossible to debate in front of an audience that already frowns upon porn just because it's sex. When you pile all these emotional issues on top of the prejudices many people already have, it's not gonna be a pretty picture. And anyone who is trying to speak for porn is going to be ganged up on and pummeled relentlessly. Nobody is going to give porn a fair shake. Just take a look at Sasha Grey's "interview" on the Tyra Banks show. They didn't invite her there to open people's eyes. They invited her there to ambush her and put her on trial for all of the "sins" of the industry and try to bully, badger and shame her into agreeing with their point of view. Sasha's a smart girl who I think knows what she wants and she did OK (under the circumstances) but nobody could have stood under that kind of pressure. That's exactly what will happen in any kind of "debate" concerning porn. I suppose you're right that there are things that need to be addressed. But by whom? Ultimately, the girls have very little bargaining power because there are just so many 18 year olds looking to make a quick buck. It will have to be up to the studios to take the initiative and frankly, I don't know how many of them are really interested. And even if they are, they're looking at trying to move a mountain with a hand shovel.
Sasha did an excellent job. That said I understand that the porn industry isn't united under a single company in the same way that music, films or wrestling are. Still I would think that there are plenty of people who could inteligently speak for themselves, and by proxy the business. The fact is that the slapping spitting porn, is still a minority. It's like condemning wrestling for exlploding barbwire death matches. Does it happen yeah. But the vast majority isn't like that. I like hearing girls gag when they suck. Even that isn't common. Screw and audience, go one on one with her, with two cameras. The fact here is that the internet is a powerful, powerful tool and so is word of mouth. I mention this because your right, if somebody just has to say a keyword to get the crowd to shout over you, it's not a debate. It's a matter of who is a superior crowd worker. If I had to (hypothetically) debate Johnny Depp and convince him that Pirates of the Carribean didn't raise intrest in pirates. He'd wave his hands around and say, no, I don't believe you. Crowd goes wild he wins. Besides if porn makes women look like sluts, what does the entirety of main stream media say about men? That we are killers. It's a matter of getting people to think.
While I agree with RandomPrecision, his post makes it seem a losing proposition to debate the topic at all with anyone anti-porn. Maybe it's just the person I am, but it kills me when people can't see the analogies to other forms of entertainment, which they are not trying to bring down. If the debater brings up the slapping, spitting, choking porn I can tell them honestly that I don't support it, in the same manner as someone not supporting a certain genre of mainstream film or television series, yet it does not mean that they turn their back on all film and television. People pick and choose what they want to watch, listen and read and I still don't understand why some people decide that because there are awful examples in porn, then all porn must be awful. It's that black & white, no gray area philosophy that just kills me because it allows for no nuance or variety across entertainment and art. It all has to meet one standard, set by one person who decided what should be allowed for all to see.
Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 1:54AM
