Very well put. The industry needs to think hard about new ways to turn a profit and your ideas might be the ticket. We'll see how it all pans out. Veronica, are there any companies or directors you're looking forward to working with once your exclusivity deal ends in May? You would be awesome in a scene for HardX.
Just to prove V**2 point, I was involved with a NASCAR team in the early 90's. I was a weekend warrior in the pit crew Since I was a tech guy, I got roped into doing their Power Points pitching for sponsors. My team had it all ass backwards. It was pitching to auto related companies, like replacement engine manufactures (which we eventually got as a sponsor). Some other teams, using market data, realized that nearly 1/2 of NASCAR fans/viewers were woman so they started targeting consumer good manufactures like Tide. Those were the sponsors they bought the big money into NASCAR, not the small time sponsors that were traditional sponsors. When big money sponsors started investing in the sport, everybody benefited, drivers, pit crew bosses and the guys in the garage putting that car together. The revenues in NASCAR exploded. They also got smart and negotiated big time TV deals, taking that away from the track owners. I see a lot of similarly in the porn sites. If you venture go to one of tube sites are a bunch of sex related ads. I'm sure you can make some money from them, but nothing like the kind of money from a Monster. But here is the challenge. Most big public companies have to answer to a conservative BODs and even more conservative institutional investors, I doubt if product placement in porn is going to fly with them for now. NASCAR had a bit of the same issue, but no where near porn's image issue. Most big time sponsors just viewed NASCA as a redneck sport and really did not want to be associated with it. You are going to have to start off targeting very edgy, non public companies. I seen some of Veronica's tweets and I think this is her strategy.
That all sounds really nice, but it avoids the very basic problem of finding companies that are actually willing to sponsor adult movies. Arrangement Finders was a unique situation because they were basically already an adult company, they just don't produce videos. I'd argue that most of the companies that made sex toys/lube/etc don't really have the extra space in their advertising budget to use it to produce scenes/movies. Truly mainstream companies aren't going to do it any time soon, because there's still too large of a portion of the population that would straight up boycott the company and make a huge stink of it in the media, no matter how "hip" their brand image is. I actually don't disagree with you that the future of porn scenes as we know them (as in pre-packaged, mass-prouduced movies) is in using them as a form of advertising. I just think that the thing most of them are going to be advertising, as it were, is the performers in the scene. Porn will be how girls (and guys) get their names out there in order to sell other things (cam shows, personal websites, custom videos, direct connection avenues like Dreamlover, their own sex toys [i.e. Fleshlights], escorting, etc.). That's how you make up for the fact that people won't necessarily be paying to watch the scene. The only problem is that, for the most part, that cuts out the people who are currently the major content producers, unless they can find their own services to sell. And the reason the "iTunes of porn" doesn't exist, and the closest we're going to see to it is pay-per-minute sites like HotMovies and AEBN, is more about the fact that producers aren't willing to come together under one site to make that happen, not because of tube sites. I've seen a few companies get the tech part of it right over the years, it's just that no one could get the major players (the Jules Jordans, the Evil Angels, the Elegant Angels) on board to distribute under it. It's also the same reason that outside of maybe Videobox, the "Netflix of porn" doesn't exist, either. Edit: And if there's one company in porn that does understand the value of analytics, it's Mindgeek. It permeates nearly everything they do, with Pornhub being the best example of that. Yet even they haven't been able to get anywhere with it. Edit #2: And MrSpazi, I'd argue that the reason companies didn't want to invest in Nascar was because they didn't believe that Nascar's market overlapped with theirs. Once you proved to them that wasn't the case, the sponsors came in droves. No one is/was actually going to boycott the company if they sponsored a Nascar racer/event, which is inevitably what would happen if a company sponsored porn. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/8/2015 8:13:43 PM
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hashphish Deactivated User
2465 Posts 7/08
Posted - Mar 9 2015 : 2:07AM
I guess people write essays now on adultdvdtalk to get their points across.
What's wrong with essays? Back in the good old days of ADT, there were a lot of folks who were interested in engaging in discourse about porn, filmmaking, sex, sexuality. For me, well-written essays are a much-needed relief from the inarticulate stupidity that currently so dominates this message board. Paige/Veronica writes beautifully. She is a pleasure to read. If anyone doubts her intellectual chops, then they don't have an eye for prose or an understanding of the implications when someone can craft it skillfully. * * * ____________________________ Edited by - bob on 3/9/2015 3:38:12 AM
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hashphish Deactivated User
2465 Posts 7/08
Posted - Mar 9 2015 : 3:50AM
never see people write long posts like they do now
^I don't have a problem with long posts--or short ones, for that matter, as long as they're well-written. You will never--never--see me use the acronym "tl:dr" in reference to another's posts; I find that to be contemptuous. I'm glad Veronica is posting here; it means she wants to interact with her fans and see what we have to say--which is good, because I always like to read what the stars have to say. Hope that helps--and again, Thank You, Veronica, for posting here. _____________________________________________________________
"There he goes talking about that Hypnosis thing again."
Hi veronica, thanks for joining this site! It's cool to be able to talk with you on a forum. I'm very much looking forward to your upcoming movies :) As you were mentioning a potential itunes model for porn, I was wondering what your impressions were of this news? "Adult Empire Launches Pay Per scene purchase option It does note that the studios would have to participate in it, but from a quick perusal, Evil Angel, Elegant Angel, and Wicked are already involved, among others.If viewers can purchase individual scenes from their favorite performer as opposed to whole DVD's, do you feel this would be a promising business model? Could it help directors and performers, know their relative value and change the distribution of revenue?
HotMovies has offered a pay-per-scene option for at least the past 2 years. The option has existed out there for a while now, it just is on sites where no one knows about it or it's much less cost efficient to buy a scene versus buying the whole movie or joining the website (Kink on Demand is a good example of that one). And the thing that made iTunes what it became wasn't just the ability to purchase single songs, it was how simple and easy they made doing so, and how well they integrated it into their ecosystem and devices at the time. So right now, for example, it wouldn't just be about offering the ability to pay per scene. It would be about being able to pay per scene at a constant, reasonable rate (say, 2-4 dollars a scene for any scene), immediately synced to a cloud account for streaming, and given the immediate ability to download it to any device you own at whatever format/resolution works best for that device.
Monthly subscriptions to the various porn portals are dirt cheap. You could be interested in only 5% of the monthly output and the subscription model would probably still be cheaper to you than if they charged you for those scenes a la carte. Or do you actually expect the price per scene would be $0.99 or something if they did it? Try more like $3, the lower end of the cost of a DVD pro-rata for one of its scenes.
Bottom line is we need the equivalent of an iStore/Google Play for porn. When that happens and the number of people downloading and paying for porn increases 100 hex we all benefit.
BTW, It looks like Veronica has reached out to X-Art and Nubiles on Twitter, hoping this means she is looking to shoot some content for them.
^ Interesting. One thing that concerns me about reaching out to mainstream companies for sponsorship is that their will be a concomitant watering down of content. Sites like X-Art and Nubiles with their so-called "female friendly" style of porn will probably have an easier time securing sponsorship as opposed to more hardcore companies like Evil Angel and HardX. If sponsorship is the future of new profits for the industry, we may end up seeing traditional gonzo marginalized. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 3/10/2015 2:29:01 PM
A unified content delivery method might increase revenue some but I doubt it'll restore the industry to previous levels of profitability. If there is going to be a change based on analytics it seems like the real revolution would be in content creation rather than in delivery. MindGeek is already using analytics but what you are mostly seeing from Brazzers is the typical business influence (more bland). When someone figures out how to create a better interaction between studio and paying fan then you might be on to something. As far as scene sponsorship is concerned; it seems highly unlikely because of the boycotts that would take place.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 12 2015 : 2:13PM
I have a thread on what the future of porn should be. Basically porn should embrace and compete with free. The F2P video game model should be something porn producers study carefully. Essentially what they need to do is give people a reason to pay for content while operating on a F2W(free2watch) model. This is where producer/fan compatibility comes in. As I see it you could have a 2 tiered payment system. The low tier would be priced competitively to take the free option into account with extra perks. 25 percent of Brazzers per-day/monthly/tri-monthly/per-year would be for the low tier and for conventional prices you see today you sweeten the pot by allowing them to determine the content of the scenes and the performers in those scenes. It could be a forum thing probably based on a combination of polling majority top down voting or even consensus among the premium paying patrons. I was looking at the booty movie 2 voting and thinking to myself, why not insulate that voting process by making it a pay to vote process? The trade off would be free content to watch but the paying voters would determine the stars. Now you would not get all those people who voted in the BM2 to pay but just getting a portion of them and having them pay say 25 cents per day over a 2 week process or even getting some monthly and yearlies would certainly bring in the revenue. That's the kind of create approach to F2W reason to buy that I am talking about.
I don't want to derail Veronica's thread so here is my only statement you your post. If it was possible to compete with free porn and still make a huge profit than we wouldn't be where we are now. The reason why people use tube and torrent sites has very little to do with the quality of porn since the porn they are watching is the kind available on paying site. it also has very little to do with cost because most membership are 20$ or less and you get hundreds of scenes for that amount. The reason is simply that people are fucking cheap bastards who use every possible excuse to justify not paying for their porn.
There is also the stigma surrounding porn in general, where most people don't care that people in porn are being ripped off, because they see the people in the industry as less than human. Movies, TV, Music, Video Games, they can all garner support against piracy. But when it comes to porn, most people think "who cares?" All the while being willfully ignorant to just how big a part of society it actually is. No industry can eradicate piracy, but they can find ways to reduce it by making it more convenient for those who are willing to pay.
^That might be true but frankly it doesn't explain why people do the same thing for mainstream TV shows and movies.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 13 2015 : 12:43AM
^^^^WATB how would we know as no production company has tried such a bold endeavor in regards to incentivizing payment. It wouldn't have to be every porn watcher/consumer but certainly the more enthusiastic types. Bear in mind that performers could play their part as well(think of my example of the booty movie 2) There are many people that would love to have some say in who performs and what kind of performance. The way I see it is this could all be discussed on the companies forum and the producers/directors would be very much tuned in. It's about connecting with fans at the end of the day. If someone is talking about porn with a friend and he looks surprised when you say that pay for porn you simply tell him, 'well I can determine the performers, scenes and scenarios that you watch on the tubes'. ^^^Pat, its about getting what profits you can at this point. Even if you believe in a maximum profit motive then the things I am suggesting make sense. Why aren't the big boys doing it, well in the story any evolution you will have chapters on dinosaurs and dead ends. What the porn producers are doing now is more towards the dead end of things. Also it has to do with ones values. I have a libertarian world view, and part of that view is the valuing of free information. "Information wants to be free" as the saying goes. Not all believe in that. Some want things to be done in a controlled manner. Yes people are cheep and selfish. You can either wine and opine, or you can adapt. Part of the reason why you are seeing a more 'pro free' viewpoint from the internet generation is because the internet itself is freeing things up. I will bet you that in due time there will be positions argued about having the creative commons model replace the copyright model. If porn were to be ahead of the curve on the front they would move out of that dinosaur dead end status that they currently find themselves in.
ADT Chatroom Survivor, Large Breast Connoisseur 176 Posts 8/08
Posted - Mar 13 2015 : 1:03AM
This is the singularly best fresh idea to continue monetizing porn and competing against free I've seen in years. People can bitch and moan about the old days or they can adapt and evolve, clearly Veronica has taken her economic knowledge and thought this out. I've seen pornstars I like and formerly respected treat their fans like thieves without provocation, other than someone telling them they liked their scene in X. Trending things like #payforyourporn is great, and I support it, but at the same hand things like the #nofanofmine neglects the key thing about fans: fans are customers, and even if they're not your customers right now, and have never paid a dime in their lives, they're still potential customers. If you treat them like thieves, they'll stay thieves. If you give them incentive to buy something of value, price it right, and make it easy to buy it, people will start breaking out their wallets again. If Veronica is right, and bringing better analytics into porn can bring more sponsors and advertisers, it can also have the effect of bringing adult content more into the mainstream. Porn viewership is huge, there's no objective reason there can't be a shift into more social and financial acceptability. Do that, and you can get out of the crazy financial pay models adult companies have to use because mainstream financial institutions block them, and that will make a huge difference to the industry, and even the average performer who can't maintain a regular account at Chase because of these poor policies.
You are a goddamn hero for saying this. A goddamn hero. So glad to see a pornstar talking sense to us about the current non-viability of this industry's business model, instead of just screaming, "Pay for your porn!" I always want to tell people who work in the industry: scolding and punishing consumers for what they do or don't do with their wallet is pouring fuel on the fire. Either evolve or face extinction.
^ The scene with Stoya looks hot. Wish the trailer had shown more of the action with Mick Blue. And hopefully the glass dildo up her butt in the Kayden scene is a sign of things to come.
My big question right now is why does Kayden keep debuting this stuff on Evil Angel instead of trying to drive traffic to her brand new site that could use it (and is also selling the scenes from this movie)?
^ It would be a risky move if the whole movie weren't an ad for Arrangement Finders. That probably recoups enough of the budget that you probably don't have to worry about whether or not the movie is a hit, saleswise.
^ The goal is shooting what you want and hoping you don't lose money in doing so. What that generally ends up meaning is hoping you find enough fans that actually like what you've shot that you make back your (or whomever footed the bill's) investment in the movie. If you can make it back in other ways, that means you have less pressure to play up to the prevailing trends and instead you can just shoot exactly what you want to shoot (which sometimes means that yes, you'll ignore the fans). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/15/2015 3:15:32 AM
^ Interracial as in White/Black, or true Interracial? It's a shame, it seems Nica Noelle was the only one willing to IR Lesbian scenes back in the day.
^ White/black, as you see the Latinas, Asians, and whites together fairly often, I would say. Espcially the Latinas that most people don't actually recognize as Latinas. And for as many things as she might have done wrong, Nica was the one porn director who was willing to say fuck it to a lot of conventional casting rules, especially involving race, which is one of the reasons she was (and arguably still is) my favorite director of features. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/16/2015 2:20:49 AM
I really like the whole key star in these productions shooting all different scenes, B/G, G/G, B/G/G and B/B/G. I hope Veronica continues to be the main star of some of these pictures, maybe put a Interracial G/G and B/G scene in the next one?
Personally, I can't wait to see product placement in adult films. Who wouldn't want to buy Monster Energy drink after seeing a starlet with the can lodged up her backside? If that isn't "unleashing the beast", I don't know what would be. Of course, the first product to successfully incorporate the "Take a load off" slogan would be the clear frontrunner in this game. Imagine the possibilities. Penises painted with logos, pop-shots on products held by smiling actresses...the sky is the limit. Heck. The only reason that I even bothered to get the American Express cards was that Constance Money so boldly advertised them in the "Opening of Misty Beethoven". (I do get what Veronica is saying, of course. I'm just adding in some levity.)
ADT Chatroom Survivor, Large Breast Connoisseur 176 Posts 8/08
Posted - Mar 25 2015 : 10:19PM
Wow, they look great!
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JackSparrow Deactivated User
7235 Posts 7/11
Posted - Mar 26 2015 : 2:36AM
for a real saying if her new boobs are great ,i need a much better pic than a handy shaking selfie.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 31 2015 : 6:23PM
Oh please! One could easily poke holes in most of her story if they really wanted to, but I really don't have the time or inclination. I find it amusing how lots of guys are completely enamoured with the female performers and take everything they say as the gospel truth when in reality they're just being played for a sucker. But, to each his own.
I largely agree with you– except I doubt that many mainstream companies will want to be associated with porn. Porn might be a good way to promote lingerie, dildos, "personal services", etc.. But Starbucks won't pay to have performers drink a latte before the scene, and they just might sue.
Baby steps, You won't see a mainstream logo in porn for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of their smaller subsidy companies that most people don't realize they own pops up. And Sex related businesses are the natural choice for now, Porn has given the Hitachi a lot of free advertising.
Is she ever going to shot anymore material? All I ever read on here is that she is trying to get sponsored for her next scene? If she actually produced some more shots, then you never know.
Hi guys -- New boob pics on my Twitter account. I couldn't be happier with them. Thanks for the compliments as to my writing, though I myself don't think much of it. I'd rather be the person creating a narrative and accomplishing something than the one trying to point out defects and not really contributing anything. I'm not trying to bag Starbucks...DUH. But there are a massive number of ballsy upstart companies who could benefit incredibly from the cheap marketing exposure that porn can offer. @pat362 You may want to do your research before you make blanket statements -- it's been done by mainstream upstarts before with a food delivery app (http://blog.eat24hours.com/how-to-advertise-on-a-porn-website/) and an underwear company (http://pando.com/2013/06/06/for-meundies-advertising-alongside-porn-is-just-smart-business/) so I'm just taking it one step further with product placement in a way that can drastically increase viewer engagement, especially considering the expansion of porn on to mobile devices (which largely bar banner advertising). I'm starting with sex toy companies right now and will expand from there. Aya has it right. Carl's Jr is on the list but I would have to build up to them. @AlleIsefails All of my latest content is on Evilangel.com including scenes with Stoya, Kayden Kross, and Mick Blue as well as bloopers. I'm flying to LA/Vegas in May to do a bunch of shooting as well. I'm currently sitting on an exclusivity period with Arrangement Finders and a healing set of tits.
Veronica Vain @ Adult Empire
Posted - Mar 8 2015 : 4:33PM
